Macksam Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 The factor that might transform the landscape eventually in that regard and might make it possible to build a consistent winner is the youth academy and home grown player angle but although people in the GTA like to think Toronto is the top youth soccer hotbed in North America (as it arguably was back in the 70s and 80s) it's going to be tough to keep pace with some of the larger cities in the warmer portions of the United States where they can play outdoors all year round.. Even if that is the case and we are at a disadvantage, TFC should still be able to mold MLS level players irregardless of that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Does Winter really think all these f-ing Dutchmen are going to save the day. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 The year long training argument doesn't really mean much, these players still train as much or more than kids in warmer cities its not like they'll let the weather stall their development just move indoors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 According to Gareth Wheeler on twitter Gianluca Zavarise may have been signed. http://twitter.com/gareth_wheeler I'm hearing Zavarise has signed with #TFC ... not sure if he has or not. Will confirm tomorrow. #TFC about 5 hours ago via web http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianluca_Zavarise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Even if that is the case and we are at a disadvantage, TFC should still be able to mold MLS level players irregardless of that fact. This in no way contradicts what I wrote. The year long training argument doesn't really mean much, these players still train as much or more than kids in warmer cities its not like they'll let the weather stall their development just move indoors. Playing indoors is better than nothing but it's still far from ideal for elite youth players in their mid to late teens who are pursuing a pro career if a change in rules and game format to deal with the need to use small indoor gyms leads to different tactical approaches which mean they are effectively forced to play a different sport for close to half the year. There's a reason why Russia usually achieves diddlysquat in international competition despite having far and away the largest population of any UEFA member and despite (regardless of the impression you might get from the CBC sometimes) soccer being the most popular sport there. Full sized indoor soccer field facilities with a 3G or 4G artificial playing surface are the way to go to try to solve this issue so competitive 11-a-side games can still be played year round pretty much regardless of the weather outside. It will be interesting to see whether TFC's new training facility will have one of those and whether it will be possible to keep CSL level competition going in the winter months in future on that sort of basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Full sized indoor soccer field facilities with a 3G or 4G artificial playing surface are the way to go to try to solve this issue so competitive 11-a-side games can still be played year round pretty much regardless of the weather outside. It will be interesting to see whether TFC's new training facility will have one of those and whether it will be possible to keep CSL level competition going in the winter months in future on that sort of basis. That's the point Keegan is making, elite youth players in Ontario have access to these types of facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 It's how those facilities are utilized that is the key. If a 10 month season of competitive games can be created for elite teams like TFC Academy good things might happen in terms of keeping pace with what can be done in cities like Los Angeles, Houston and even Vancouver. If most of the access revolves around playing 6 vs 6 on a partitioned field not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 It's how those facilities are utilized that is the key. If a 10 month season of competitive games can be created for elite teams like TFC Academy good things might happen in terms of keeping pace with what can be done in cities like Los Angeles, Houston and even Vancouver. If most of the access revolves around playing 6 vs 6 on a partitioned field not so much. I'm pretty sure most of the access revolves around full pitches just as you would have outdoors no? I just don't buy the whole weather argument, if it doesn't affect hockey players it shouldn't affect soccer players especially elite level players, just look at Iceland with only a population of 300,000 they produce more football talent than many warmer climate countries with higher populations. Anyways the typical elite level player would play around mid-late March to mid November outdoors, the other months are offseason physical training, training on indoor pitches and travelling with our youth national team(s) to warmer climates to play outdoors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Hockey is normally played indoors so not sure where you are going with that analogy. Beyond that although I'd like to believe that TFC Academy will be the key to TFC becoming a dominant franchise that seldom misses the playoffs people need to bear in mind that the massive Hispanic populations in cities like Los Angeles, Houston, Dallas and Chicago are just as dedicated to soccer as people from a first and second generation immigrant background in the GTA tend to be. It would be a different story if the league's American contingent were made up exclusively of cities like Columbus where soccer doesn't have much of a deep rooted culture but if anything those types of cities tend to be the exception rather than the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Does Winter really think all these f-ing Dutchmen are going to save the day. LOL. TFC are on the Dutch plan and the Caps are on the Swiss plan. Both physical leagues that could adapt to MLS easier than players from central/south American leagues. Although from what I've watched on TV the Brazilian league is surprisingly physical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdroze Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Cann to return to the team on Friday: http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/952103--defender-adrian-cann-set-to-rejoin-toronto-fc A good article explaining Cann's contract situation. And -- surprise, surprise -- it's all Mo's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 OK, Cann is due $124K for 2011 - which is almost double what he made last year - and he asked $175K and the club offered $160K and he still walked? Did I in just enter a bizarro universe where Adrian Cann is a superstar!?! This is ridiculous, they're probably overpaying him at $124K for ****s sakes. The guy has had one good year. Who's to say he doesn't stink it up big time this year, especially under a new offensive oriented system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 OK, Cann is due $124K for 2011 - which is almost double what he made last year - and he asked $175K and the club offered $160K and he still walked? Did I in just enter a bizarro universe where Adrian Cann is a superstar!?! This is ridiculous, they're probably overpaying him at $124K for ****s sakes. The guy has had one good year. Who's to say he doesn't stink it up big time this year, especially under a new offensive oriented system. Him and DeRo have very bad agents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havoc88 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 OK, Cann is due $124K for 2011 - which is almost double what he made last year - and he asked $175K and the club offered $160K and he still walked? Did I in just enter a bizarro universe where Adrian Cann is a superstar!?! This is ridiculous, they're probably overpaying him at $124K for ****s sakes. The guy has had one good year. Who's to say he doesn't stink it up big time this year, especially under a new offensive oriented system. I know it's a new regime, new start, clean slate, the past is the past etc ... but to be fair the precedent has been set at TFC you don't even need to have played one game before getting almost double what he was asking for. Cann proved his worth last year, and clearly they had no probs paying 120K to Hrscanovics, 180 to Garcia etc ... 175 would have raised an eyebrow but 124 to me is definitely about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Nana hasn't officially signed yet has he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Nana hasn't officially signed yet has he? Nana is under contract for this season. He hasn't signed an extension yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 OK, Cann is due $124K for 2011 - which is almost double what he made last year - and he asked $175K and the club offered $160K and he still walked? Did I in just enter a bizarro universe where Adrian Cann is a superstar!?! This is ridiculous, they're probably overpaying him at $124K for ****s sakes. The guy has had one good year. Who's to say he doesn't stink it up big time this year, especially under a new offensive oriented system. +100 No sympathy here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Well the trial given to Dicoy Williams appears to have served his purpose: http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/952103--defender-adrian-cann-set-to-rejoin-toronto-fc ...“At the end of the day, he wants to play here,” Sanford Carabin, Cann’s agent, said of the 30-year-old from Thornhill. “This is where he grew up. “He’s going to take the high road on this. He’s going to go back and show them that he’s worth the money that he wants.”... ...Assuming Cann and TFC patch things up, the defender will actually be making about $35,000 less than the offer he turned down last month. The problems for Cann began when he signed with TFC early in the 2010 season. Negotiating without an agent when Mo Johnston was still the general manager, he agreed to a four-year contract, which included two years guaranteed plus an option for two more. While not happy with making $65,342 for 2010 — a pay cut from his previous two seasons with Esberg FB of Denmark — TFC officials told Cann, according to Carabin, that under Major League Soccer salary-cap constraints they couldn’t pay him any more until 2011. But, Cann says, there was a verbal agreement that the deal’s salary for this season — about $124,000 — would be topped up to make up for last year’s shortfall... Two thoughts on this would be whether it is JDG's presence on DP money that unsettles the guys he knew growing up who are now making less money but arguably making a comparable contribution to the team and why anybody would believe a verbal agreement actually counts for anything at the pro level. Think it actually boils down to Cann thinking he had more leverage than he actually did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Two thoughts on this would be whether it is JDG's presence on DP money that unsettles the guys he knew growing up who are now making less money but arguably making a comparable contribution to the team and why anybody would believe a verbal agreement actually counts for anything at the pro level. Think it actually boils down to Cann thinking he had more leverage than he actually did. I don't think its the De Guzman contract that give Cann an overvalued sense of his worth. It most likely has to do with the fact that TFC has a history of giving **** players good money for never having proved anything in this league. Guys earning over $150,00 without ever really earning it. So the guy plays his ass off and wants to get paid like them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I know it's a new regime, new start, clean slate, the past is the past etc ... but to be fair the precedent has been set at TFC you don't even need to have played one game before getting almost double what he was asking for. Cann proved his worth last year, and clearly they had no probs paying 120K to Hrscanovics, 180 to Garcia etc ... 175 would have raised an eyebrow but 124 to me is definitely about right. The players you quoted did not earn their money and were subsequently cast off (and in Garcia's case we inherited his crappy contract from KC). In contrast Dan Gargan signed a 3 year (?) deal at $40K and did a yeoman's job doing the dirty work, yet made a point of saying that TFC gave him a chance to revive his MLS career and he would honour his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 TFC signs Gianluca Zavarise: http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/03/zavarise-signs-toronto-fc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Updated: GK Stefan Frei 24 Switzerland GK Milos Kocic 25 Serbia D Nana Attakora 21 Canada D Adrian Cann 30 Canada D Dan Gargan 28 USA D Ty Harden 26 USA D Doneil Henry 17 Canada D Demitrius Omphroy 21 USA D/M Nathan Sturgis 23 USA M Julian de Guzman 29 Canada M Jacob Peterson 25 USA M Elbekay Bouchiba 32 NED M Gianluca Zavarise 24 Canada M/F Dwayne De Rosario 32 Canada M/F Nick Soolsma 23 NED F Javier Martina 24 NED F Alan Gordon 29 USA F Maicon Santos 26 Brazil Injured Reserve: M Nicholas Lindsay 18 Canada http://www.torontofc.ca/players So that's 16 Salary Budget players and only 2 Off-Budget. We still have a load of cap room (I assume, unless the new staff has completely missed the plot with the new signings) to bring in a DP (or two) during the summer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Cann to return to the team on Friday: http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/952103--defender-adrian-cann-set-to-rejoin-toronto-fc A good article explaining Cann's contract situation. And -- surprise, surprise -- it's all Mo's fault. I read this post thinking that the article was going to discuss the "agent forced upon player" swindle that Mo pulled - only to find out that it's something else Mo did on top of that. Cripes almighty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 TFC signs Gianluca Zavarise: http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/03/zavarise-signs-toronto-fc Without ever having seen this guy play for more than 30 seconds, I have to say this is a signing I heartily approve of. And yes, you can call me biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livesareavailable Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 So that's 16 Salary Budget players and only 2 Off-Budget. We still have a load of cap room (I assume, unless the new staff has completely missed the plot with the new signings) to bring in a DP (or two) during the summer window. Not necessarily...any of the guys on minimum deals (Gargan, Kocic, Henry, Lindsay/SEI, Harden, Nana) could occupy 21-24 off budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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