Soccerpro Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Anyone hear if there will be any more signings before the season starts? Right now I don't think any one can say TFC is a playoff squad. They clearly need a striker and help on the wings/ wing back positions. It looks like 2012 might be the year TFC will be in a position to emerge from Mo's mess once JDG's contract and some of Preki's signings come off the books I think Vancouver has a better looking squad right than TFC now with the addition of Hassli up front. And better yet, they've stated they're still looking to acquire another striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM2 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 Andrew Ornoch back in town. Plays 45 minutes against Chicago Fire in Carolina Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Kind of strange that they'd bring back Ornoch after cutting him, but perhaps they were expecting more and better bodies that never arrived. Hopefully he can stick with the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Latest list of who is in camp: http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/03/toronto-fc-squad-list-carolina 2 - Demitrius Omphroy (D) // Draft Pick 3 - Nana Attakora (D) // Signed 5 - Ashtone Morgan (D) // Academy 6 - Julian de Guzman (M) // Signed 7 - Joao Plata (F) // Draft Pick 8 - Dan Gargan (D) // Signed 11 - Nathan Sturgis (M) // Signed 12 - Adrian Cann (D) // Signed 14 - Dwayne De Rosario (M) // Signed 15 - Matt Stinson (M) // Academy 16 - Oscar Cordon (M) // Academy 17 - Keith Makubuya (F) //Academy 19 - Matt Gold (M) // Draft Pick 20 - Ty Harden (D) // Signed 21 - Nick LaBrocca (M) // Signed 23 - Jacob Peterson (F) // Signed 24 - Stefan Frei (G) // Signed 25 - Elbekay Bouchiba (M) // Trialist 26 - Mikael Yourassowsky (D) // Trialist 27 - Nick Soolsma (F) // Trialist 28 - Andrew Ornoch (F) // Trialist 29 - Maicon Santos (F) // Signed 30 - Milos Kocic (G) // Signed 33 - Gianluca Zavarise (F) // Trialist 34 - Keven Aleman (M) // Academy 39 - Javier Martina (F) // Trialist ...but Adrian Cann's inclusion doesn't mean he's actually there: http://www.torontosun.com/sports/2011/03/05/17510111.html ...“He went away against our wishes,” explained Winter. “Last season he signed a new contract and we knew he was unhappy so we offered him a contract with two good options. And we’ve given him a lot of time to think about it.” Winter says he talked contract with Cann multiple times this pre-season and offered him more money because he had shown well at camp. Winter would not reveal the terms of the contract offers, but did say the numbers originally published concerning Cann’s current contract (four years, last year at $65,000) were incorrect. The door is still open for Cann to return to the team, but it will be on Toronto FC’s terms. “He can come back under his old (contract) conditions. But when you let your team down by leaving, when you come back, everything won’t be the same.” The ball is entirely in Cann’s court, but it’s hard to imagine he will return under the current terms. Toronto FC did indicate earlier in the week they have contacted Major League Soccer head office to discuss further options... Kind of strange that they'd bring back Ornoch after cutting him, but perhaps they were expecting more and better bodies that never arrived. Hopefully he can stick with the squad. ...or maybe Aron Winter has a better feel for who is and isn't MLS quality now? Dan Gargan left the scene before coming back into the picture again last season so not without precedent for it to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Monsalve isn't there anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Monsalve isn't there anymore? Strange as he got minutes just the other day against that college team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 http://twitter.com/davidamonsalve @TorontoFCasn didn't come to an agreement unfortunayely about 20 hours ago via Twitter for iPhone in reply to TorontoFCasn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 That TFC squad list looks like a really weak team. With 12 days until the first game TFC fans better hope Winter has a few surprises he is bringing in because this looks like a last place team. (Cue Rudi to claim that I am saying this because I hate TFC ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Only marginally better than the 2007 team, in my opinion, given Frei > Sutton, JDG > Robinson and DeRosario > O'Brien/Edu and who knows how injury and contract status will affect that. Getting rid of Preki half way through a drastic rebuild then completely changing direction tactically was always likely to lead to this. If Martina, Soolsma and Bouchiba fail to pleasantly surprise Winter could easily need two years of patience and acceptance of missing the playoffs again to build a winning team but I seriously doubt he would get it. A large portion of the fan base is liable to go completely haywire over any prolonged losing streak this summer once the reality sinks in that it hasn't all been because of Mo or before that the fieldturf a lot of what has happened over the past four seasons simply goes with the territory when it comes to supporting an MLS team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Only marginally better than the 2007 team, in my opinion, given Frei > Sutton, JDG > Robinson and DeRosario > O'Brien/Edu and who knows how injury and contract status will affect that. Getting rid of Preki half way through a drastic rebuild then completely changing direction tactically was always likely to lead to this. If Martina, Soolsma and Bouchiba fail to pleasantly surprise Winter could easily need two years of patience and acceptance of missing the playoffs again to build a winning team but I seriously doubt he would get it. A large portion of the fan base is liable to go completely haywire over any prolonged losing streak this summer once the reality sinks in that it hasn't all been because of Mo or before that the fieldturf a lot of what has happened over the past four seasons simply goes with the territory when it comes to supporting an MLS team. The team is probably the lowest talent-wise its been since that '07 year, you're right. And Winter et al were never going to completely change the team ino a cup contender in two months. We'll see how the season goes, but I suspect no matter how it turns out, the second half of the season will likely be better than the first (better players brought in, existing players getting used to the system, coaching staff getting used to the league, etc.) Regarding Grizzly's post however, TFC could announce tomorrow that they are signing the entire current Barcelona squad and he'd still find a way to say negative things about it. It's just the way it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Agreed on that last bit. Will definitely be interesting to see what happens with the summer window if Winter is going to leave cap space open to make a few signings then when more experienced players are liable to be available on a Bosman over in Europe. Watching Izaguirre in the SPL on webstreams definitely leads to what if kind of questions about last season. Hopefully Winter is better at setting up plan B scenarios than Mo was. Not fixing the left back issue after Hscanovics failed to replace Brennan properly was unacceptable as was the whole Mista debacle. Attracting quality players to MLS is always going to be a challenge so realistically it will probably take a few transfer windows to find all the pieces to the puzzle just as it normally does for an expansion team given that's basically what we are looking at right now in quality terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Agreed on that last bit. Will definitely be interesting to see what happens with the summer window if Winter is going to leave cap space open to make a few signings then when more experienced players are liable to be available on a Bosman over in Europe. Watching Izaguirre in the SPL on webstreams definitely leads to what if kind of questions about last season. Hopefully Winter is better at setting up plan B scenarios than Mo was. Not fixing the left back issue after Hscanovics failed to replace Brennan properly was unacceptable as was the whole Mista debacle. Attracting quality players to MLS is always going to be a challenge so realistically it will probably take a few transfer windows to find all the pieces to the puzzle just as it normally does for an expansion team given that's basically what we are looking at right now in quality terms. I just hope the fanbase can be patient with this. Jason Kreis' first two years at RSL were dreadful, but he cut a ton of deadweight, improved bit by bit, and slowly RSL became arguably the best team in MLS. I've no idea whether Winter/De Klerk/Mariner have the same coaching prowess as Kreis, but they are already more experienced (and have far better networks, both in and out of MLS) now than when Kreis took over as a complete coaching rookie in 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Read a good article in World Soccer magazine on Barcelona and how they are built on the Dutch way of building soccer teams. Three main components: 1. 4-3-3 system 2. Invest in academy and develop your own players (8 Barcelona players on first team home grown) 3. Patience. Obviously, this is the method Winter is following. It HAD to be expressed clearly to MLSE by Klinssman and Winter that this was the direction the team should take and ownership has to be patient. I doubt Winter would have agreed to come otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 To paraphrase Saif Gadhafi the Barcelona approach has three components: component 1: spend more money than all the other teams in the league component 2: spend more money than all the other teams in the league component 3: spend more money than all the other teams in the league OK there's slightly more to it than that obviously but bear in mind that even at the youth level a club like Barca can make greater finances count in a way that isn't possible for TFC in MLS with the restrictive policies about 75 mile territories and lack of pro contracts at U18 level. It's also easy to play an attractive attacking 4-3-3 when your salary budget is much greater than that of most of your opponents. The one thing that makes me very uncomfortable about what's happening right now is what is going to happen when people finally come down out of the stratosphere and are forced to come to terms with the fact that they don't support a club like Barcelona or Ajax but a mediocre MLS team operating on a $2.7 million salary cap that can not go out and simply buy success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crampton Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 The one thing that makes me very uncomfortable about what's happening right now is what is going to happen when people finally come down out of the stratosphere and are forced to come to terms with the fact that they don't support a club like Barcelona or Ajax but a mediocre MLS team operating on a $2.7 million salary cap that can not go out and simply buy success. I think that's pretty obvious now. Maybe it's a generational thing - I get the impression you're a bit older than I am - but I think you consistently discount the fact that the majority of TFC's fanbase, while they do often support international "superclubs" in soccer, grew up watching North American sports leagues. The fear in most quarters isn't that we're not Barca or Ajax it's that we're the Detriot Lions or LA Clippers. And there's no team that exerts more influence on the Toronto sports psyche than the Toronto Maple Leafs and it's way too easy to draw superficial similarities to them (even if TFC didn't share ownership). THAT'S what makes our fanbase so kooky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 To paraphrase Saif Gadhafi the Barcelona approach has three components: component 1: spend more money than all the other teams in the league component 2: spend more money than all the other teams in the league component 3: spend more money than all the other teams in the league OK there's slightly more to it than that obviously but bear in mind that even at the youth level a club like Barca can make greater finances count in a way that isn't possible for TFC in MLS with the restrictive policies about 75 mile territories and lack of pro contracts at U18 level. It's also easy to play an attractive attacking 4-3-3 when your salary budget is much greater than that of most of your opponents. The one thing that makes me very uncomfortable about what's happening right now is what is going to happen when people finally come down out of the stratosphere and are forced to come to terms with the fact that they don't support a club like Barcelona or Ajax but a mediocre MLS team operating on a $2.7 million salary cap that can not go out and simply buy success. Sorry, not the point of my post. Of course Barcelona spends a lot of money to fill "holes" in the roster. The point I was trying to make was the patience part and (hopefully) MLSE was convinced to be in this for the long run and not expect short term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 The fear in most quarters isn't that we're not Barca or Ajax it's that we're the Detriot Lions or LA Clippers. And there's no team that exerts more influence on the Toronto sports psyche than the Toronto Maple Leafs and it's way too easy to draw superficial similarities to them (even if TFC didn't share ownership). THAT'S what makes our fanbase so kooky. Eewwwwwww, we have a BINGO! Mike has it dead-on. I don't think anyone is expecting 5 titles in a row, but they're certainly not expecting 5 years out of the playoffs. MLS is parity driven league and competing for a playoff spot year-in-year-out, making it into the playoffs time to time and the occassional deep run is not much to ask for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Sorry, not the point of my post. Of course Barcelona spends a lot of money to fill "holes" in the roster. The point I was trying to make was the patience part and (hopefully) MLSE was convinced to be in this for the long run and not expect short term success. No disagreement on what should happen in an ideal world but to try to quickly answer two posts at once I think a lot of MLSE's marketing is aimed at making people feel like they are supporting a big team like Ajax on a subconscious level even if the reality is very different. I take all the Klinsmann stuff with a pinch of salt because when I look at who has actually had success in MLS in recent years it has often tended to be the lower budget operations with no name coaches, while the big names brought in from overseas have not had a great track record (Ruud Gullit was less than stellar with the Galaxy for example). With Peddie on the way out the door I suspect this was primarily about keeping the sellouts going and profits high during the jockeying for position for promotion within MLSE at the corporate level. Assuming Winter hangs in there the patience now probably needs to come from the hardcore of the fanbase in the first instance and the suits at MLSE will be happy to keep going with him as long as they see that happening. The revolving door needs to stop so as long as there are signs of progress people need to relax about the whole playoff qualification thing at least in season one, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Regarding Grizzly's post however, TFC could announce tomorrow that they are signing the entire current Barcelona squad and he'd still find a way to say negative things about it. It's just the way it goes. How do you know this? TFC has never even put together a decent MLS squad before let alone hire Barca players. If they ever do hire some decent players then we can see what my analysis is. You are so amusing Rudi. You b-itch at me for calling TFC crap for the last 4 years when they have been crap for the last 4 years by anyone's standard except yours apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 How do you know this? TFC has never even put together a decent MLS squad before let alone hire Barca players. If they ever do hire some decent players then we can see what my analysis is. You are so amusing Rudi. You b-itch at me for calling TFC crap for the last 4 years when they have been crap for the last 4 years by anyone's standard except yours apparently. Yeah, I've never written here or elsewhere that TFC has been sub par. Oh wait, I did exactly that in the other half of that post that you quoted. You're telling me that you'll check in to these threads and give credit if/when TFC puts it together and starts being successful? And you'll do so at the same frequency with which you come into these threads to remind us all how crap our team is? Please forgive me if I don't believe that for a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crampton Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 TFC has never even put together a decent MLS squad before let alone hire Barca players. 2009 TFC was a decent MLS squad that underachieved in the league, V-Cup*, and CCL and, in a season full of turmoil and personality conflicts, just missed the playoffs when they had a great oppurtunity to do so. The team that snuck by them (and about three other teams) on the final day, that TFC had beat one week earlier practically eliminating them from playoff contention, went on to win the title. They were too old, too positionally unbalanced, and built on too much allocation to stick together but, for that year at least, they were decent (if inconsistent). BBtB: I'm actually of the opinion that the North American "make the playoffs" mentality sets the bar too low for teams with the means and ambition to achieve more. The Toronto Maple Leafs have often been run like that with "making the playoffs" being seen as the finish line. There's a quote from Anselmi from back during the revolt face last fall that reinforces my suspicion that that mindset infects TFCs planning. Even in a capped league their are different tiers of ambition because of the different histories of teams and thus expectations of their fanbase. That said, while I wouldn't be happy with TFC not having ANY ambition of making the playoffs this year, I'm preparing for the worst and could live with it if it was a step towards what I really want: a team that can be "good" in MLS terms and start the season with a solid chance of a top 5 finish (leaving the playoffs an afterthought). *Even though they still ended up winning thanks to mauling someone's team 1 - 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I'll admit that I'm decidedly pessimistic on this season, mainly due to the quality of the trialists. While I know anything can happen, if I was to list some of the better "paper" signings this year compared to TFC, I'd be vastly disappointed. While there past performance doesn't necessarily indicate future success, it does provide a relative level of assurance that they previously established themselves playing a decent level of football, something a lot of the guys in camp for TFC have yet to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 ...I'm actually of the opinion that the North American "make the playoffs" mentality sets the bar too low for teams with the means and ambition to achieve more... This is where I think the support of a team like Ajax and Barcelona angle creeps in at the subconscious level. How is that last bit even applicable in the context of a league with a relatively rigid $2.7 million salary cap and policies designed to enforce competitive party? Even the DP rule is drafted in a way deliberately designed to help the teams that don't sign one after all and it's important to bear in mind that New York and Los Angeles are where the genuine big names like Beckham and Henry want to play so there's a lot more to it than having "means and ambition". Beyond that agree about TFC having a good roster in 2009 that very much should have made the playoffs. All the points lost that season in the final few minutes of games point to an opportunity very much squandered probably due to poor coaching (Cummins was a youth coach out of his depth) and an inadequate fitness regime (despite all the Paul Winsper hype) as much as anything else. Two seasons of steady progress followed by a relatively successful year three then a bit of a rebuild as older players are replaced and more relative success in years five and six would be about right for an MLS expansion team and that sort of initial trajectory actually wasn't too far out of reach for TFC. People still drone on and on about Mo Johnston as if he was all that stood between TFC and the ongoing glittering success that their level of vocal support should be rewarded by but eventually they are going to have to come to terms with the reality that supporting an MLS team is going to have more lows than highs over the long haul. The factor that might transform the landscape eventually in that regard and might make it possible to build a consistent winner is the youth academy and home grown player angle but although people in the GTA like to think Toronto is the top youth soccer hotbed in North America (as it arguably was back in the 70s and 80s) it's going to be tough to keep pace with some of the larger cities in the warmer portions of the United States where they can play outdoors all year round. Fortunately the investment appears to be about to be made to attempt to do so although I'm a bit wary of how the Academy appears to be being used to find an excuse to keep Brennan and Dichio on the payroll rather than there being an attempt to go out and hire the best possible coaches for that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM2 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 Two more Dutch players added, Javier Martina and Elbekay Bouchiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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