Gold Cup 2025

[SpursFlu]

It's also a logistical dry run for the most complex World Cup ever. As a result I'm sure Vancouver and or Toronto will be involved 

 

 

[footballfreak]

On 2/2/2023 at 8:02 PM, Watchmen said:

Which UEFA teams do you think they'll be able to get?  I'm sort of assuming it's 2 teams that don't qualify for Euro 2024.

I assume the sides chosen will: 

A) Bring most eyeballs via either a large fanbase or superstar player.

B. Are good, but not “too good” such that they embarrass the region.

My best guesses:

AFC: 2 of China/Japan/South Korea. Wildcard possibilities: Indonesia, India, Thailand, Vietnam

CAF: Nigeria, South Africa. Wildcard: Egypt

CONMEBOL: 2 of Peru, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador. 

UEFA: Norway (Haaland), Ukraine 🇺🇦. Wildcard: Ireland (good crowds in the northeast).

[Obinna]

48 minutes ago, footballfreak said:

I assume the sides chosen will: 

A) Bring most eyeballs via either a large fanbase or superstar player.

B. Are good, but not “too good” such that they embarrass the region.

My best guesses:

AFC: 2 of China/Japan/South Korea. Wildcard possibilities: Indonesia, India, Thailand, Vietnam

CAF: Nigeria, South Africa. Wildcard: Egypt

CONMEBOL: 2 of Peru, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador. 

UEFA: Norway (Haaland), Ukraine 🇺🇦. Wildcard: Ireland (good crowds in the northeast).

I am intrigued by the idea of Norway due to the Haaland factor, and there'd be a ton of media fan fare over Ukraine, but I think the very top European sides are going to be interested in this. This will indeed be the dry run for the WC so I imagine it to have a Confederations Cup feel to it, possibly with the best teams from each region (as @Alex suggested).

Now that I have thought about it some more, I think it's likely that teams will push to be involved rather than us begging them to come over. It would be advantageous to teams so they can get a closer look at what to expect at the big dance. In fact, it would be the teams that have qualified (or are near locks to do so) that would push to be involved, because if you aren't going to qualify for 2026 the same incentive to get aclimatized is not there.

I really don't think we'll get that far down the quality trail where Norway and Ukraine are the chosen teams, nor do I think CONCACAF will ask such teams first. If you're CONCACAF you want the strongest teams possible, so you're not going to start your search with teams like Norway, you're going to start with France, then probably England, followed by Spain, Italy, Germany, etc. There are so many top teams in UEFA. 

In regards to CONMEBOL, I think Brazil and Argentina would love a chance to compete against two top UEFA teams in a competitive tournament. However, they'll be coming off a Copa America in the USA. Will they really care to basically do it all again? There's a bit of a doubt in my mind there, but I still see it happening. If not I think Colombia makes a lot of sense, given the massive ex-pat population in North America. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Obinna

[Obinna]

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

I am intrigued by the idea of Norway due to the Haaland factor, and there'd be a ton of media fan fare over Ukraine, but I think the very top European sides are going to be interested in this. This will indeed be the dry run for the WC so I imagine it to have a Confederations Cup feel to it, possibly with the best teams from each region (as @Alex suggested).

Now that I have thought about it some more, I think it's likely that teams will push to be involved rather than us begging them to come over. It would be advantageous to teams so they can get a closer look at what to expect at the big dance. In fact, it would be the teams that have qualified (or are near locks to do so) that would push to be involved, because if you aren't going to qualify for 2026 the same incentive to get aclimatized is not there.

I really don't think we'll get that far down the quality trail where Norway and Ukraine are the chosen teams, nor do I think CONCACAF will ask such teams first. If you're CONCACAF you want the strongest teams possible, so you're not going to start your search with teams like Norway, you're going to start with France, then probably England, followed by Spain, Italy, Germany, etc. There are so many top teams in UEFA. 

In regards to CONMEBOL, I think Brazil and Argentina would love a chance to compete against two top UEFA teams in a competitive tournament. However, they'll be coming off a Copa America in the USA. Will they really care to basically do it all again? There's a bit of a doubt in my mind there, but I still see it happening. If not I think Colombia makes a lot of sense, given the massive ex-pat population in North America. 

Come to think of it, Portugal and Spain's cultural and historical linkage with the Americas would make them fitting participants. Tremendous quality, obviously, but perhaps more than that. They would fit the theme in a way that a Germany or France woud not. Games against Brazil or Argentina, in the Americas no less, would certainly have fascinating undertones - Mexico as well. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Obinna

[Kent]

I agree with the suggestion of not calling this the Gold Cup. I don't like guest nations in the confederation championship. It's like inviting Real Madrid to the MLS Playoffs and crowning them MLS Champions.

There have been several guest nations in the past in the Gold Cup, and they have usually finished in the top 4. Bringing 8 guest nations would make it very hard for the best team in CONCACAF to come from CONCACAF.

Note to any who don't know their Canada soccer history, South Korea were eliminated from the Group Stage in 2000 by a coin flip with eventual champion Canada. So they had a shot at a top 4 as well if they got a lucky coin flip (and then beat T&T, who were good in those days).

As for whether we should be inviting top teams or a rung or two lower, I don't think either is a great option. If you aren't inviting the best, what's the point? And if you are inviting the best from each region there is a very, very, real chance we don't even have a semi finalist from CONCACAF, let alone a winner.

And of course, for anyone who cares, the FIFA Ranking implications for CONCACAF teams are bad if the guest teams take away our chances at big point knockout round games (and to a lesser extent, group stage games), and take those points back home to their confederation. That in turn makes it harder to get CONCACAF teams into good pots in the 2026 World Cup (although the 3 host nations would likely be in the top pot regardless).

[SthMelbRed]

29 minutes ago, Kent said:

I agree with the suggestion of not calling this the Gold Cup. I don't like guest nations in the confederation championship. It's like inviting Real Madrid to the MLS Playoffs and crowning them MLS Champions.

There have been several guest nations in the past in the Gold Cup, and they have usually finished in the top 4. Bringing 8 guest nations would make it very hard for the best team in CONCACAF to come from CONCACAF.

Note to any who don't know their Canada soccer history, South Korea were eliminated from the Group Stage in 2000 by a coin flip with eventual champion Canada. So they had a shot at a top 4 as well if they got a lucky coin flip (and then beat T&T, who were good in those days).

As for whether we should be inviting top teams or a rung or two lower, I don't think either is a great option. If you aren't inviting the best, what's the point? And if you are inviting the best from each region there is a very, very, real chance we don't even have a semi finalist from CONCACAF, let alone a winner.

And of course, for anyone who cares, the FIFA Ranking implications for CONCACAF teams are bad if the guest teams take away our chances at big point knockout round games (and to a lesser extent, group stage games), and take those points back home to their confederation. That in turn makes it harder to get CONCACAF teams into good pots in the 2026 World Cup (although the 3 host nations would likely be in the top pot regardless).

Ironically, you've neglected to mention that there was a quarterfinal against Mexico to negotiate before getting to the T&T semi-final.

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

Ironically, you've neglected to mention that there was a quarterfinal against Mexico to negotiate before getting to the T&T semi-final.

I don't know. Back in those days, beating Jack Warner was almost as tough as beating Mexico.

[Kent]

2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Ironically, you've neglected to mention that there was a quarterfinal against Mexico to negotiate before getting to the T&T semi-final.

This is what I get for going completely off of memory and not double checking. I had it backwards. I was thinking it was T&T in the quarters (hence I mentioned South Korea needed a coin flip and a win against T&T to be a semi finalist) and then Mexico in the semi finals. You are correct though, it was the other way around. Mexico first, then T&T.

[Watchmen]

We talk a lot about the 2000 Gold Cup for obvious reasons, but I think the 2002 edition really gets overlooked.  Advance based on "drawing of lots" over Ecuador, losing to the US in the semi-finals on penalties (with Costa Rica waiting in the final), beating South Korea in the 3rd place match.

[An Observer]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

We talk a lot about the 2000 Gold Cup for obvious reasons, but I think the 2002 edition really gets overlooked.  Advance based on "drawing of lots" over Ecuador, losing to the US in the semi-finals on penalties (with Costa Rica waiting in the final), beating South Korea in the 3rd place match.

Honestly, I completely forgot about that one so you are right that it gets overlooked (at least by me)

[Watchmen]

2 minutes ago, An Observer said:

Honestly, I completely forgot about that one so you are right that it gets overlooked (at least by me)

I'm not going to lie, I had to look up some of the details. 😄  I remembered them advancing on lots or a coin toss, and I remembered them beating South Korea and finishing 3rd, but I forgot they lost on penalties in the semi-finals or that it was Ecuador they had faced in the group.

[harrycoyster]

On 2/3/2023 at 1:06 PM, Kadenge said:

Interesting...so the USSF has received no financial gain from hosting the GC in past yrs?

CONCACAF distributes the money after the tournament. They keep a portion, set aside prize money and the rest is split evenly across all CONCACAF teams. The host country has the advantage of having CONCACAF funds to set up the event and largely keep proceeds from non-ticket sales...concessions, jerseys, etc.

According to the USSF tax filings the last ten years of Gold Cups were all profitable, but cumulatively didn't match the profits of the 2016 Copa America, in which the USSF was cut directly into the profits and made around $50mil USD.

[QBCS]

Maybe some "Tier 2" UEFA & CONMEBOL Teams, with big NA Fan bases
My guesses,
UEFA: 
Scotland, Poland or Belgium, 
CONMEBOL:
Uruguay, Colombia
Asia:
Bring out the big guns for Asia. Japan, and SK.
These are the teams i'd like to see at it. Whether they'll go with teams like this, I don't know. A lot of people in this forum most definitely have a better understanding of chances than I do.

[Treppy2]

21 hours ago, Kent said:

I agree with the suggestion of not calling this the Gold Cup. I don't like guest nations in the confederation championship. It's like inviting Real Madrid to the MLS Playoffs and crowning them MLS Champions.

There have been several guest nations in the past in the Gold Cup, and they have usually finished in the top 4. Bringing 8 guest nations would make it very hard for the best team in CONCACAF to come from CONCACAF.

Note to any who don't know their Canada soccer history, South Korea were eliminated from the Group Stage in 2000 by a coin flip with eventual champion Canada. So they had a shot at a top 4 as well if they got a lucky coin flip (and then beat T&T, who were good in those days).

As for whether we should be inviting top teams or a rung or two lower, I don't think either is a great option. If you aren't inviting the best, what's the point? And if you are inviting the best from each region there is a very, very, real chance we don't even have a semi finalist from CONCACAF, let alone a winner.

And of course, for anyone who cares, the FIFA Ranking implications for CONCACAF teams are bad if the guest teams take away our chances at big point knockout round games (and to a lesser extent, group stage games), and take those points back home to their confederation. That in turn makes it harder to get CONCACAF teams into good pots in the 2026 World Cup (although the 3 host nations would likely be in the top pot regardless).

Gold Cup guests South Korea (2002), South Africa (2005) and Qatar (2021) were invited to the tournament to aid in their preparation for hosting a World Cup. In fairness and in a similar vein, I propose that Canada is allowed to enter two teams in the 24-team 2025 Gold Cup. (Mexico and the U.S. have previously hosted World Cups, so they don't need the practice — one team for each of them.) Canada RED would play all group-stage matches in Toronto. Canada WHITE would play all group-stage matches in Vancouver. This would test out both World Cup venues and would likely sell out six home matches instead of three. How we divide the teams, I'm not sure. Maybe players with a connection to Brampton go to Canada RED and all other players go to Canada WHITE?

(I'm joking about this suggestion, but maybe Vic can make it happen. Jack Warner would have done it if Trinidad had ever co-hosted the Gold Cup!)

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 2/3/2023 at 5:57 PM, InglewoodJack said:

How are teams even picked? I assume that interested teams apply, and then CONCACAF chooses the best fits?

 

I went with teams that are good enough to be invited to international tournaments, but not good enough where the entire tournament will get dominated by non-CONCACAF teams.

I think Portugal is going to want to keep their momentum going beyond the CR7 years, so international tournaments would be really relevant for them. I also think that we'll invite a gulf state as well, and since we've already invited Qatar, Bahrain seems like a realistic choice, but I would consider them interchangeable with UAE (who actually have a stronger team, IIRC).

 

I think teams like England, Spain, France, they have too much to lose if they get knocked out early or straight up don't win the tournament. Those teams could look to see how a middling team like ours was able to steamroll through WC qualifying and would be afraid to get eliminated by a team that would embarass them. Mbappe missing a PK in an elimination loss against Canada at like, Tim Hortons field? That's the type of thing that will be held against his legacy.

Are there dates for this Gold Cup, and why was this thread bumped?

 

Anyways, I think the logic is impeccable. But the plus is playing as a NT in the venues you may see the following summer. It is actually an advantage, you learn the terrain. Pre-Olympic events are often done that way and it does benefit athletes to know venues, scenarios. Now Canada has to play at Azteca, and we are not threatened or afraid, because we know it, have done it, even got results there. 

Apart from it being a sort of courtesy within FIFA.

The problem is if Nations League interferes, of other international tournaments, if players are just too saturated with matches, then you may see some selective opting out, which is what you are suggesting. Not even the potential money would be that much of an incentive for many federations.

Edited January 18 by Unnamed Trialist

[cornerkick]

I looked at the original post, and wasn't aware of this plan for the 2025 gold cup.  I thought this was just released, but then saw the Feb 2023 post date. 

A quick news search revealed this:  apparently the FIFA Club World Cup is scheduled to be played at exactly the same time.  Both are using North America venues.  There will be overlap of some games.  I guess another question is will clubs release players to their national teams if they are in both?  Or who would get priority?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soccer/gold-cup-and-club-world-cup-to-divide-and-conquer-us-in-2025/ar-AA1nbVVf

Edited January 19 by cornerkick

[cornerkick]

the 2025 Africa Cup of Nations is also scheduled during this time period, June-July 2025.  Who exactly will come from CAF to this gold cup then?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Africa_Cup_of_Nations

There's too much soccer now in summer 2025.  Did the gold cup try to make an early announcement to preempt other competitions from stealing the spotlight?