narduch Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Other than to satiate a few nerds on this forum why would the CPL want to play USL teams? Aird25, ray, baulderdash77 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 minute ago, narduch said: Other than to satiate a few nerds on this forum why would the CPL want to play USL teams? Could be good prep for CPL teams preparing for their season. Maybe the question should be, why would USL teams want to play CPL? narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solsous Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 59 minutes ago, Aird25 said: Why would we compete against US and Mexico's second division, when we'll already be competing against the champions from those countries? Here are my thoughts on this, it would be a quasi Europea(sp) Cup type of competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, solsous said: Here are my thoughts on this, it would be a quasi Europea(sp) Cup type of competition. It would just be to satisfy our curiousity though, just like narduch points out. There's no reason to have a competition outside of that. You can't even market it as a 2nd division cup, since CPL are not officially 2nd division (although they kinda are in practice). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauditYvon Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 20 minutes ago, narduch said: Other than to satiate a few nerds on this forum why would the CPL want to play USL teams? Because they would be the only pro clubs willing to play against them? Aird25 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 26 minutes ago, Aird25 said: I don’t have any trouble arguing something that is true. 3 teams does not constitute a league What is true is that none of Canada's best teams play in the CPL, and CPL teams are (generally) non competitive with MLS teams. I hope that changes over time. Cymru Premier is Wales' top div, but there's a reason why all of the best Welsh teams are in the English system. I just don't think the CPL's concern right now should be snubbing their nose at the USL because they're not an official first division league or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said: What is true is that none of Canada's best teams play in the CPL, and CPL teams are (generally) non competitive with MLS teams. I hope that changes over time. Cymru Premier is Wales' top div, but there's a reason why all of the best Welsh teams are in the English system. I just don't think the CPL's concern right now should be snubbing their nose at the USL because they're not an official first division league or whatever. That's not true. Seven of our top 10 teams play in CPL, and matches between CPL and MLS teams have been very competitive to date and the overall record is not all that crazy. The most lopsided result in this years Voyageurs cup was between 2 MLS sides. Most CPL sides were eliminated in penalties or by 1 goal by MLS teams Edited July 20, 2022 by Aird25 Fresh Prince of MTL, Kent, ray and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 38 minutes ago, solsous said: Here are my thoughts on this, it would be a quasi Europea(sp) Cup type of competition. In what sense? We already compete in Champions League narduch and Kent 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, Aird25 said: That's not true. Seven of our top 10 teams play in CPL, and matches between CPL and MLS teams have been very competitive to date and the overall record is not all that crazy. The most lopsided result in this years Voyageurs cup was between 2 MLS sides. CPL sides were only eliminated in penalties or by 1 goal by MLS teams I love CPL, but it's kinda dubious to suggest CPL teams are competitive with MLS teams on the basis of our Cup competition. That's like cherry-picking close results in the Cups between EPL and lower league teams and then suggesting they are competitive with EPL sides. Yeah, sure they are competitive on any given day, but I doubt any CPL side would fare well over a full MLS season. Big fan of CPL, but everytime there is an upset the crowd at One Soccer take that as evidence the gap is narrowing, but I get it. They are trying to grow the perception of the league. I have no problem with that, but lets call a spade a spade here. Cheeta, P-O, Kingston and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 22 minutes ago, Aird25 said: That's not true. Seven of our top 10 teams play in CPL, and matches between CPL and MLS teams have been very competitive to date and the overall record is not all that crazy. The most lopsided result in this years Voyageurs cup was between 2 MLS sides. Most CPL sides were eliminated in penalties or by 1 goal by MLS teams Saying 7 of the top 10 canadian teams are in the CPL is like saying that 47 of the top 50 welsh teams play in the welsh league. yes, that's technically right, but let's see what Cardiff City or Swansea do given a full season in Wales. I also don't think single game results are super relevant either. With the same argument, CFM beat Forge 3-0, while Forge "only" beat CS Outremont 2-0, therefore maybe the CPL is actually closer to the PLSQ than the MLS? These are cup games, so I'm not even sure what the MLS sides rosters' looked like, but I don't even know if they fielded their best players. How many games have CPL sides won against MLS teams, 2? Have any of them ever beat Montreal or TFC? I don't believe so (someone can correct me if that's not the case). How many CPL players would crack an MLS roster today, minus young guys who are signed to get developed? 16 minutes ago, Obinna said: Yeah, sure they are competitive on any given day, but I doubt any CPL side would fare well over a full MLS season. Big fan of CPL, but everytime there is an upset the crowd at One Soccer take that as evidence the gap is narrowing, but I get it. They are trying to grow the perception of the league. I have no problem with that, but lets call a spade a spade here. Yeah, this is how I feel about this. 10 years from now, I don't think we'll be having this discussion; more and more CPL guys are going to the MLS and to Europe, the league is headed towards the right direction, but as it stands, there isn't parity between MLS and CPL. And yeah MLS is only 3 teams and will never be the first division Canada needs, but I think the most games against foreign teams the better, and if that means some kind of USL tournament, then all the better for us. Every CPL win against an MLS side is a good thing, but it's not like CPL sides would exactly blow out USL teams, I don't think. It's a fair matchup. Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solsous Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 28 minutes ago, Aird25 said: In what sense? We already compete in Champions League Are all teams in the CPL eligible for the Champions League? I guess that I am thinking of a championship just below that. I don't know if USL League one is eligible for the champions League. Europa league is generally for teams that are not in the top 4/5 in their First division, right? Remember, this is just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 42 minutes ago, Obinna said: I love CPL, but it's kinda dubious to suggest CPL teams are competitive with MLS teams on the basis of our Cup competition. That's like cherry-picking close results in the Cups between EPL and lower league teams and then suggesting they are competitive with EPL sides. Yeah, sure they are competitive on any given day, but I doubt any CPL side would fare well over a full MLS season. Big fan of CPL, but everytime there is an upset the crowd at One Soccer take that as evidence the gap is narrowing, but I get it. They are trying to grow the perception of the league. I have no problem with that, but lets call a spade a spade here. It's dubious to counter a post claiming that CPL teams are non competitive with MLS teams by citing the only existing results between teams from those leagues? Kent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solsous Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 My main objective is really to have a side-by-side comparison of the talent pool in the CPL/USL. I doubt that MLS teams are scouting CPL teams. It would be nice if there was a forum for them to display their immense talent. Unfortunately, kids like De Rosario and many other CPL players like him, are rarely scouted by MLS teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 41 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said: How many games have CPL sides won against MLS teams, 2? Have any of them ever beat Montreal or TFC? I don't believe so (someone can correct me if that's not the case). The all time MLS-CPL record is 13-2-2. Both of the CPL wins were against Vancouver. One of the draws was against Vancouver and the other against Montreal (back when there were two-leg series in the V-Cup). Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 20 minutes ago, Aird25 said: It's dubious to counter a post claiming that CPL teams are non competitive with MLS teams by citing the only existing results between teams from those leagues? I am not sure what you mean here. I was countering your claim that CPL teams are competitive with MLS teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Kingston said: The all time MLS-CPL record is 13-2-2. Both of the CPL wins were against Vancouver. One of the draws was against Vancouver and the other against Montreal (back when there were two-leg series in the V-Cup). Got it. It's like when lower div teams beat prem teams in English cup games too. Anyways, just a suggestion to get the CPL on the international stage, which is hard to do considering how few leagues there are in North America (given the fact there are so few countries). My preference would be for some comparable european leagues come tour Canada. Having a non old firm scottish teams play a series of exhibitions in Canada would be cool. Not sure how the finances look for any of those teams to spend a couple weeks in Canada, so I think something with the USL makes more practical sense. solsous and Obinna 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 32 minutes ago, solsous said: Europa league is generally for teams that are not in the top 4/5 in their First division, right? Remember, this is just a thought. The Europa league routinely features teams from the top 4/5 leagues. In fact, you have to go back to 2010-11 to find a winner that never came from those leagues (Porto). 37 minutes ago, solsous said: Are all teams in the CPL eligible for the Champions League? I guess that I am thinking of a championship just below that. I don't know if USL League one is eligible for the champions League. The CPL will have two spots in Champions league, one is for the regular season winner and the other for the winner of the CPL final. Alternatively, CPL sides who win the Canadian Championship will earn a spot. All 3 spots qualify you for the first round of Champions League. The entire tournament will be knock outs. USL League one, or USL Championship for that matter, can only qualify if they win the US open cup. In doing so they'd qualify for round one, just like the Canadian teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 15 minutes ago, solsous said: My main objective is really to have a side-by-side comparison of the talent pool in the CPL/USL. I doubt that MLS teams are scouting CPL teams. It would be nice if there was a forum for them to display their immense talent. Unfortunately, kids like De Rosario and many other CPL players like him, are rarely scouted by MLS teams. I would like to see a side-by-side comparison as well. I suspect USL Championship and CPL teams are very comparable. An annual friendly match of the winners from both leagues would be cool, but such a thing would be simply for bragging rights, I imagine. solsous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, solsous said: I doubt that MLS teams are scouting CPL teams. It would be nice if there was a forum for them to display their immense talent. Unfortunately, kids like De Rosario and many other CPL players like him, are rarely scouted by MLS teams. TFC signed two players from Pacific last off season. Vancouver loan in a keeper for an emergency fill in. All three Canadian MLS clubs have players loaned out to CPL teams. I'd say at least the Canadian MLS clubs are aware of what's going on. Kent and Obinna 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Diego Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 There is the CONCACAF League. It's not really like what was being suggested with USL and Mexican Div 2 teams, but it is a sort of secondary continental competition for teams that don't really have a hope of competing in the CCL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 If this topic really interests you there are a handful of players that have played in both leagues recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, El Diego said: There is the CONCACAF League. It's not really like what was being suggested with USL and Mexican Div 2 teams, but it is a sort of secondary continental competition for teams that don't really have a hope of competing in the CCL I believe that'll be discontinued in 2024 when CCL is expanded. El Diego 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Ya. Pacific will be the last CPL team to play Concacaf League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, solsous said: I doubt that MLS teams are scouting CPL teams. Do you not realize that all three Canadian MLS teams started players this week that were previously in CPL, and there were others on the benches? The league has also moved two players to the Scottish Premier League, one to the English Championship, and one to Ligue 2 in the last couple of weeks. Edited July 20, 2022 by Aird25 johnyb, Craig11rm, Kent and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solsous Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 16 minutes ago, Aird25 said: Do you not realize that all three Canadian MLS teams started players this week that were previously in CPL, and there were others on the benches? The league has also moved two players to the Scottish Premier League, one to the English Championship, and one to Ligue 2 in the last couple of weeks. They still are not scouting the CPL. That's facts. johnyb, RS and Kent 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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