2026 World Cup - News, Updates and discussions

[Free kick]

Looks like another case of the FIFA non-compete clause

 

Hamilton expect decision from Ontario Government on 2026 Commonwealth Games bid (insidethegames.biz)

Quote: "A decision on whether the Ontario Government will back a bid from Hamilton to host the Commonwealth Games is expected shortly, it was claimed by the head of the group lobbying for the Canadian city to host the event.

But it remains unclear what the decision will be and, if Ontario does agree to back the bid, whether it will be for 2026, 2027 or 2030.

Hamilton would appear to have a clear run at staging the 2026 Commonwealth Games with no other serious bidders having so far emerged.

But the Ontario Government is reluctant to back a bid for 2026 because it wants to concentrate on ensuring the province is chosen to have a host city for the FIFA World Cup due to take place that year in the United States, Canada and Mexico."

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Free kick said:

But, Camp Nou has a proper surface

Our Clients | SISGrass Hybrid Grass Technology (sispitches.com)

I had no idea it was hybrid--in fact I was not even sure about this but see they redid it last summer. Exactly what does this hybrid turf entail?

My point, however, was that I am not sure FIFA would reject a stadium because of amenities and luxury features, as that is the easiest part to fix, in principle. Or else it is a part that does not fundamentally matter beyond basic minimums. 

[Free kick]

9 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You may be surprised to know that Camp Nou, the biggest stadium in Europe, has poor hospitality, no premium amenities, no private boxes, crappy washrooms, some sections with old seats and very poor concessions. It's a concrete bowl for the plebes.

I don't think FIFA would ever say it is not in conditions to host a WC match. 

How do we know that FIFA would not required Camp Nou to get a facelift if it were to host a WC.  Didnt they require the same for San Siro in 1990 and for Bayern Munich's Stadium in 2006?  I seem to have a recollection of these upgrades being required of even these stadiums

Edited February 14, 2022 by Free kick

[Free kick]

42 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I had no idea it was hybrid--in fact I was not even sure about this but see they redid it last summer. Exactly what does this hybrid turf entail?

 

Answer:

 

BMO Field’s new hybrid turf surface - Turf & Rec (turfandrec.com)

[Joe MacCarthy]

1 hour ago, Free kick said:

How do we know that FIFA would not required Camp Nou to get a facelift if it were to host a WC.  Didnt they require the same for San Siro in 1990 and for Bayern Munich's Stadium in 2006.   I seem to have a recollection of these upgrades being required of even these stadiums

I read the Euro stadium guide for hosting events a couple of years ago and it's no big deal.  Most new stadiums already have basically what was required.  I'll see if I can find and post it here.  I think the Twitter post about Commonwealth was unnecessary chaff and redirect.

As for BC Place and the latest rumours, they will either have to use hexagonal trays like they did for the Pontiac Silverdome in 1994 or dig up the cement and do a whole bunch of costly work to install a turf surface. 

Now, that turf surface could be put in there a year ahead of time for test events and later used by the Lions and Caps.  But there are several issues involved with that.  Can they grow grass inside (or keep it alive) even with a retractable roof.  It has not been proven on a large or long term scale in our climate.  It failed with the Astrodome (granted technology has improved since that time) and the Jays much ballyhooed study effort to install turf in the Rogers Centre fell by the wayside.

Also do the Lions, Caps and the owners of the stadium PAVCO want to continue with that ongoing  higher cost of maintenance over artificial turf, I doubt it.  Also, can the building handle the environmental effects of having turf be installed in there, taking into account mold and moisture for which the building may or may not have been designed.  Even though it was originally designed to host a baseball team which may or may not have later featured turf (I don't know) but that may have gone by the wayside with all the renovations to the building since, which I assume HVAC must have been one.

It's something that needs to be considered far more IMO if FIFA wants games to go to BC moreso than the small stadium issues with Commonwealth.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Joe MacCarthy

[CanadianSoccerFan]

1 hour ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

I read the Euro stadium guide for hosting events a couple of years ago and it's no big deal.  Most new stadiums already have basically what was required.  I'll see if I can find and post it here.  I think the Twitter post about Commonwealth was unnecessary chaff and redirect.

As for BC Place and the latest rumours, they will either have to use hexagonal trays like they did for the Pontiac Silverdome in 1994 or dig up the cement and do a whole bunch of costly work to install a turf surface. 

Now, that turf surface could be put in there a year ahead of time for test events and later used by the Lions and Caps.  But there are several issues involved with that.  Can they grow grass inside (or keep it alive) even with a retractable roof.  It has not been proven on a large or long term scale in our climate.  It failed with the Astrodome (granted technology has improved since that time) and the Jays much ballyhooed study effort to install turf in the Rogers Centre fell by the wayside.

Also do the Lions, Caps and the owners of the stadium PAVCO want to continue with that ongoing  higher cost of maintenance over artificial turf, I doubt it.  Also, can the building handle the environmental effects of having turf be installed in there, taking into account mold and moisture for which the building may or may not have been designed.  Even though it was originally designed to host a baseball team which may or may not have later featured turf (I don't know) but that may have gone by the wayside with all the renovations to the building since, which I assume HVAC must have been one.

It's something that needs to be considered far more IMO if FIFA wants games to go to BC moreso than the small stadium issues with Commonwealth.

It's an issue for a.lot of the US stadiums as well.  I just don't see them installing fully rooted grass in Atlanta or Jerry World.  We'll see how this plays out

[Joe MacCarthy]

36 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

It's an issue for a.lot of the US stadiums as well.  I just don't see them installing fully rooted grass in Atlanta or Jerry World.  We'll see how this plays out

You can grow it outside on a giant tray and roll it in through the side of a building as some stadiums have but that is another proposition altogether

[Free kick]

2 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

It's an issue for a.lot of the US stadiums as well.  I just don't see them installing fully rooted grass in Atlanta or Jerry World.  We'll see how this plays out

I counted ten of the US stadiums that already have a natural surface.  This includes several of the newer ones.  Most of these are shoe-ins to be host cities.  For example Houston has a natural surface and they are already reports that they plan to cluster with the mexican cities.   This one is shoe-in to be a candidate  city, just from what i am reading.  So if Houston is the almost certain, do they still need Jerry’s Stadium in Dallas?    Maybe not, if you already have a city in Texas.  
 

There are already stories that Washington will support the Baltimore bid as joint effort.  Both of these are Natural surfaces.  
 

The others with natural surfaces are: Denver, KC, Miami, Nashville, Philly, SF, and the Rose Bowl.   The only one that they really need and isnt a natural surface is in the NY/NJ area. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Free kick

[CanadianSoccerFan]

2 hours ago, Free kick said:

I counted ten of the US stadiums that already have a natural surface.  This includes several of the newer ones.  Most of these are shoe-ins to be host cities.  For example Houston has a natural surface and they are already reports that they plan to cluster with the mexican cities.   This one is shoe-in to be a candidate  city, just from what i am reading.  So if Houston is the almost certain, do they still need Jerry’s Stadium in Dallas?    Maybe not, if you already have a city in Texas.  
 

There are already stories that Washington will support the Baltimore bid as joint effort.  Both of these are Natural surfaces.  
 

The others with natural surfaces are: Denver, KC, Miami, Nashville, Philly, SF, and the Rose Bowl.   The only one that they really need and isnt a natural surface is in the NY/NJ area. 

LA put forward both the Rose Bowl and SoFi Stadium. Sofi is a leading candidate to host the final.

Houston had a grass tray system initially but they installed permanent artificial turf in 2015.  They install temp grass for the Gold Cup.

Another issue is that a lot of these stadiums will need seats removed to fit a full width pitch.  This is more awkward at Jerry World and Sofi where there are private suites built at field level.  Other stadiums like Metlife and Atlanta planned for this with removable sections but they create sightline issues  

 

[Cheeta]

^. Some outstanding venues in the USA but have wondered about the size of the playing surfaces moreso than the need to bed in grass.  

You can say what you want about the American appetite for building these venues, and the means by which they're financed but the reality remains this is the world in which we compete.  It's a harsh place.

 

[Free kick]

We cant compete.  And that's because of the popularity of the NFL.    @CanadianSoccerFan mentioned Sofi but i didn't because there is no mention of it in the bid book.  Probably because it wasn't built yet when they were bidding.  They will have to juggle the need to go with natural surfaces while at the same time build clusters for groups.   So that's going to be tough.  Here are 5 of my picks so far that i suspect they will chose: 

1) Houston - Natural surface and will cluster with the three Mexican cities (Mexico city, Monterrey, Guadalajara)

2) New York/New Jersey -  NOT NATURAL SURFACE.  But you have to have New York.  And you have to have 4 cities to makeup a North east cluster

3) Baltimore -  Natural surface.  Washington (after the negative reviews they got from FIFA) already announced that they will partner with Baltimore.  So they must know something. Plus you can put them in either a South East or North east cluster.

4) Nashville -  Natural surface.  They hosted a WCQ match so that's a good sign, so is the surfaces and the fact that you need at least 4 cities to make up a South East cluster

5) Los Angeles -  Natural surface.  Same as New York,  you need LA and you need 4 Pacific coast cities to make up a cluster

6) San Francisco - Natural surface.  Plus you can build the Pacific cluster with LA and possibly Seattle  and Vancouver (As Horgan mentioned).  Seattle and Vancouver are NOT NATURAL SURFACE

 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Free kick

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

Another issue is that a lot of these stadiums will need seats removed to fit a full width pitch.  This is more awkward at Jerry World and Sofi where there are private suites built at field level.  Other stadiums like Metlife and Atlanta planned for this with removable sections but they create sightline issues  

 

BTW, you are the first person that i have heard ever mention this.  There was a WC in the US in 1994 and it was played in US football stadiums (with natural surfaces) and i never heard of them having to remove seats or that an NFL surface didnt fit for soccer.  i have never heard of this as an issue.   Similarly,  there are MLS teams that play in NFL stadiums in NE and Sea and there was a WCQ in Nashville a few months ago..   I never heard of them removing seats or the pitch being too narrow.  Not saying you are wrong but.....  

Edited February 15, 2022 by Free kick

[narduch]

16 minutes ago, Free kick said:

BTW, you are the first person that i have heard ever mention this.  There was a WC in the US in 1994 and it was played in US football stadiums (with natural surfaces) and i never heard of them having to remove seats or that an NFL surface didnt fit for soccer.  i have never heard of this as an issue.   Similarly,  there are MLS teams that play in NFL stadiums in NE and Sea and there was a WCQ in Nashville a few months ago..   I never heard of them removing seats or the pitch being too narrow.  Not saying you are wrong but.....  

People complained about NRG Stadium in Houston having a narrow pitch.

It was used in last summers Gold Cup 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

49 minutes ago, Free kick said:

BTW, you are the first person that i have heard ever mention this.  There was a WC in the US in 1994 and it was played in US football stadiums (with natural surfaces) and i never heard of them having to remove seats or that an NFL surface didnt fit for soccer.  i have never heard of this as an issue.   Similarly,  there are MLS teams that play in NFL stadiums in NE and Sea and there was a WCQ in Nashville a few months ago..   I never heard of them removing seats or the pitch being too narrow.  Not saying you are wrong but.....  

I posted a link but here it is again

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/07/28/dc-2026-world-cup-entry-would-require-removal-some-fedex-field-seats/

Plenty of games are played in these stadiums in spite of the narrow dimensions because when it's the Gold Cup or a summer friendly, nobody gives a toss and they just play anyway.  The Gold Cup final in Vegas was farcical with the corner flag hard up against the wall and the width still under minimum.  It blew up on twitter before the game.

The most common issue happens when they angle the corner seats toward midfield which pinches the available width.  Some stadiums like Atlanta have removable corners but it's still tight and people in these sections can't see the near corner flag.  Metlife and Houston have similar setups but not quite as severe.  

For the 94 World Cup, the Cotton Bowl in Dallas and the Rose Bowl had seating removed in the corners.  You can see where the first row of seats in the bowl breaks.  They put these seats back in for gridiron

 

The Rose Bowl with the same seating cutout.  However, they kept the change after the 94 World Cup.

 

 

 

On the flip side, the best for soccer are the the stadiums like Nashville and MIami because the corners are 90 degree angles with wide dimensions allowing more room.  In this picture you can still faintly make out the soccer dimensions from a recent friendly.  Looks like tons of room available but the soccer dimensions need every inch of it.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by CanadianSoccerFan

[RS]

12 hours ago, Free kick said:

Houston - Natural surface and will cluster with the three Mexican cities (Mexico city, Monterrey, Guadalajara)

NRG Stadium has artificial turf.

[Free kick]

20 minutes ago, RS said:

NRG Stadium has artificial turf.

According to the bid book, NRG has natural grass.   I went through all stadiums listed and looked at the current surface section and it says:  Natural Grass for Houston.

See page 182

https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/3c077448dcd5c0ab/original/w3yjeu7dadt5erw26wmu-pdf.pdf

Edited February 15, 2022 by Free kick

[RS]

6 minutes ago, Free kick said:

According to the bid book, it has natural grass.   I went through all stadiums listed and looked at the current surface section and it says:  Natrural Grass.

It's either an error or intentional deception in the bid book. NRG Stadium gets a new artificial turf surface every year, and it hosts tons of concerts, events, trade shows, and even the NCAA basketball tournament. No way that's happening on natural grass.

[Free kick]

22 minutes ago, RS said:

It's either an error or intentional deception in the bid book. NRG Stadium gets a new artificial turf surface every year, and it hosts tons of concerts, events, trade shows, and even the NCAA basketball tournament. No way that's happening on natural grass.

This is what google says:

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+type+os+surface+does+NRG+stadium+have&rlz=1C9BKJA_enCA802CA803&oq=what+type+os+surface+does+NRG+stadium+have&aqs=chrome..69i57.19882j1j7&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
 

Quote:”NRG Stadium employs two different playing surfaces; a natural grass field is used for professional football games while an artificial surface, AstroTurf GameDay Grass, is used for college and high school games. Both surfaces are laid out on interlocking trays”

Edited February 15, 2022 by Free kick

[RS]

10 minutes ago, Free kick said:

This is what google says:

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+type+os+surface+does+NRG+stadium+have&rlz=1C9BKJA_enCA802CA803&oq=what+type+os+surface+does+NRG+stadium+have&aqs=chrome..69i57.19882j1j7&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
 

Quote:”NRG Stadium employs two different playing surfaces; a natural grass field is used for professional football games while an artificial surface, AstroTurf GameDay Grass, is used for college and high school games. Both surfaces are laid out on interlocking trays”

The Houston Texans were clearly playing on artificial turf this season. The link below won't allow an embed (because the NFL is ridiculous), but you can see for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxMw9_o6tSg

Compare that to the temporary grass used in the same stadium for Mexico vs. Canada in the Gold Cup semifinal a few months earlier.

They did a really good job with that temp grass installation, but you can still see some seams. If NRG Stadium is selected for the World Cup, they'll use a hardier temp grass install.

 

[pod818]

This is a very interesting discussion and I love all the stadium photos posted. It would be something to be proud of if there was an additional stadium in Canada built for soccer with grass.

I know Vancouver was supposed to have something built but the plans go nixed. Were there any renderings or plans of what was to be built? Where else in Canada is feasible for the next soccer specific stadium to be built? Maybe Joey Saputo wants to expand in Mtl..

[chalms04]

24 minutes ago, pod818 said:

Where else in Canada is feasible for the next soccer specific stadium to be built?

Spruce Meadows floated a plan for a 12k seater in their 30-year vision. Would be grass, but technically not an SSS.

 

[Free kick]

2 hours ago, pod818 said:

This is a very interesting discussion and I love all the stadium photos posted. It would be something to be proud of if there was an additional stadium in Canada built for soccer with grass.

I know Vancouver was supposed to have something built but the plans go nixed. Were there any renderings or plans of what was to be built? Where else in Canada is feasible for the next soccer specific stadium to be built? Maybe Joey Saputo wants to expand in Mtl..

Yes, it puts us to shame.   We haven't even talked about Mexico.  They have even better stadiums for soccer than in the US.  BMO field has the surface you want but it is essentially what many Europeans would considered a stadium for a second division team.  Or, at best, second tier first div club.  Its in a different universe from Wembley, Stade de France, Camp Nou, San Siro.... etc.  Yet,  sadly, its the best we have.    That's embarrassing.   

Edited February 15, 2022 by Free kick

[Joe MacCarthy]

Again it all comes back to why I started this thread, we have some great stadiums in this country, they just don't have the surfaces to showcase soccer.

 

 

 

[Joe MacCarthy]

4 hours ago, pod818 said:

I know Vancouver was supposed to have something built but the plans go nixed. Were there any renderings or plans of what was to be built?

Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium
June 21, 2018

The Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium was a proposed open-air soccer facility in Vancouver, British Columbia that would have been privately funded and developed by the Vancouver Whitecaps FC. The proposed location was north of Gastown on the central waterfront on what was then a parking lot and the site of a helicopter landing pad. The proposed stadium would have housed the Vancouver Whitecaps FC men and women's clubs.

The $70-million stadium would have had an initial capacity of 20,000, which would be potentially expandable to 30,000 seats.

In addition to Vancouver Whitecaps FC matches, the stadium was intended host international soccer matches, rugby union matches and tournaments, tennis and beach volleyball tournaments, and open-air musical events and concerts such as the Vancouver International Jazz Festival and the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra. The stadium would have had close access to many modes of public transportation, including SkyTrain, SeaBus, West Coast Express, and buses.

Controversy

Although Vancouver public support for the stadium was high (a Mustel survey found that 71% of Vancouver residents supported the project), the proposal drew protests from several groups including the Gastown Neighbourhood Coalition. Local architects Arthur Erickson and Bing Thom also urged caution, saying that piecemeal development of some of Vancouver's last undeveloped waterfront should be avoided. They argued that the stadium would deny waterfront access and would negatively affect the historical theme of the Gastown area. The architects urged city hall to delay approval until a comprehensive plan had been submitted. Independent architecture firm Hotson Bakker, which was hired by the city of Vancouver, concluded that the stadium plans as proposed were unworkable. They reported that the development did not fit with the Gastown district and did not take future residential developments into account. They also stressed the need for a comprehensive waterfront plan.

History

On July 11, 2006, Vancouver's city council gave unanimous approval to continue the planning process, provided that certain critical problems are addressed. Specific issues included the lack of roads for spectator and emergency access, and the stadium's location above railroad tracks. The project would be reviewed quarterly by city planners until the stadium's construction is approved; the developers had two years to accomplish this.

On January 22, 2007, the Whitecaps filed a new proposal shifting the proposed site for the stadium project to the current location of the SeaBus terminal, a short distance northwest of the previous site.

On February 1, 2007, Vancouver City Council unanimously endorsed a city staff report which identified a process to potentially resolve the proposed Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium’s five key requirements set out by City Council. In addition, the staff report outlined a procedure to integrate the stadium with the Waterfront Hub Study.

In July 2007, the City of Vancouver noted that "The Whitecaps and the VPA are now considering an alternative siting which addresses the technical constraints facing the SeaBus terminal site. This would involve some of the VPA-owned land between the SeaBus terminal and Crab Park (see figure below) and would enable the SeaBus to remain in place. This area is anticipated for mixed use development by the Central Waterfront Port Lands Policy Statement (1994) and any proposal would need to be considered in that context." They further added "The Whitecaps and VPA are currently investigating whether this site could meet their needs and aspirations. If the Whitecaps and VPA decide to pursue the development of the stadium in this location, they will need to develop a proposal and submit it to City staff for evaluation and consultation with the public and interested parties."

Initial plans were targeting completion for Summer 2009, though this has been pushed back many times. On March 18, 2009 Major League Soccer (MLS) announced an expansion franchise to the city to begin play in 2011. The team stated intentions to play at least the first season, and possibly up to five seasons, at BC Place Stadium.

In 2011, Bob Lenarduzzi confirmed that the team was committed to BC Place, and that plans for the Waterfront Stadium were put on hold.

[frmr]

2 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium
June 21, 2018

The Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium was a proposed open-air soccer facility in Vancouver, British Columbia that would have been privately funded and developed by the Vancouver Whitecaps FC. The proposed location was north of Gastown on the central waterfront on what was then a parking lot and the site of a helicopter landing pad. The proposed stadium would have housed the Vancouver Whitecaps FC men and women's clubs.

The $70-million stadium would have had an initial capacity of 20,000, which would be potentially expandable to 30,000 seats.

In addition to Vancouver Whitecaps FC matches, the stadium was intended host international soccer matches, rugby union matches and tournaments, tennis and beach volleyball tournaments, and open-air musical events and concerts such as the Vancouver International Jazz Festival and the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra. The stadium would have had close access to many modes of public transportation, including SkyTrain, SeaBus, West Coast Express, and buses.

Controversy

Although Vancouver public support for the stadium was high (a Mustel survey found that 71% of Vancouver residents supported the project), the proposal drew protests from several groups including the Gastown Neighbourhood Coalition. Local architects Arthur Erickson and Bing Thom also urged caution, saying that piecemeal development of some of Vancouver's last undeveloped waterfront should be avoided. They argued that the stadium would deny waterfront access and would negatively affect the historical theme of the Gastown area. The architects urged city hall to delay approval until a comprehensive plan had been submitted. Independent architecture firm Hotson Bakker, which was hired by the city of Vancouver, concluded that the stadium plans as proposed were unworkable. They reported that the development did not fit with the Gastown district and did not take future residential developments into account. They also stressed the need for a comprehensive waterfront plan.

History

On July 11, 2006, Vancouver's city council gave unanimous approval to continue the planning process, provided that certain critical problems are addressed. Specific issues included the lack of roads for spectator and emergency access, and the stadium's location above railroad tracks. The project would be reviewed quarterly by city planners until the stadium's construction is approved; the developers had two years to accomplish this.

On January 22, 2007, the Whitecaps filed a new proposal shifting the proposed site for the stadium project to the current location of the SeaBus terminal, a short distance northwest of the previous site.

On February 1, 2007, Vancouver City Council unanimously endorsed a city staff report which identified a process to potentially resolve the proposed Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium’s five key requirements set out by City Council. In addition, the staff report outlined a procedure to integrate the stadium with the Waterfront Hub Study.

In July 2007, the City of Vancouver noted that "The Whitecaps and the VPA are now considering an alternative siting which addresses the technical constraints facing the SeaBus terminal site. This would involve some of the VPA-owned land between the SeaBus terminal and Crab Park (see figure below) and would enable the SeaBus to remain in place. This area is anticipated for mixed use development by the Central Waterfront Port Lands Policy Statement (1994) and any proposal would need to be considered in that context." They further added "The Whitecaps and VPA are currently investigating whether this site could meet their needs and aspirations. If the Whitecaps and VPA decide to pursue the development of the stadium in this location, they will need to develop a proposal and submit it to City staff for evaluation and consultation with the public and interested parties."

Initial plans were targeting completion for Summer 2009, though this has been pushed back many times. On March 18, 2009 Major League Soccer (MLS) announced an expansion franchise to the city to begin play in 2011. The team stated intentions to play at least the first season, and possibly up to five seasons, at BC Place Stadium.

In 2011, Bob Lenarduzzi confirmed that the team was committed to BC Place, and that plans for the Waterfront Stadium were put on hold.

Damn I remember that. I was hot and horny for that stadium.