mpg_29 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 MLS wants a 5M Euro transfer fee for Larin? ugghh Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Here is what cannot be: Larin made 1/40th of the salary of the guy passing him the ball, Kaká. He was given a raise start of last season to 195,000 guaranteed, tenth best on the team. He was the second lowest paid player when all the top salaries were on the pitch. His salary did not even affect salary cap, at least at the start, because he was Generation Adidas, and the league sponsored part of what he made, meaning Orlando got an even better deal. He is probably the lowest paid player per goal in MLS in the last three years. Does anyone know what Orlando chose to raise his salary to this month, with the option being exercised? I seriously doubt it is enough to justify a unilateral option being made while blocking a transfer. MLS is asking a for a transfer fee which is about ten times more than he was paid these past three seasons. Which would be like TFC asking over 200 million US for Giovinco. Edited January 22, 2018 by Unnamed Trialist shamrock and Obinna 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I think part of the problem here is that none of the teams view Larin as one they're willing to go to court over and challenge the MLS legality of the option clause. They'd sign him for free. But given the legal costs of challenging the option clause (and you know MLS would fight like hell to defend it), he's not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 The contract Besiktas signed stipulates Larin will be responsible for the legal challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Watchmen said: I think part of the problem here is that none of the teams view Larin as one they're willing to go to court over and challenge the MLS legality of the option clause. They'd sign him for free. But given the legal costs of challenging the option clause (and you know MLS would fight like hell to defend it), he's not worth it. How hard MLS will fight to defend it might depend on how good they think their chances of winning are. If they think Larin has a good case they might decide not to fight it and eventually come up with a more reasonable transfer fee or even take nothing at all. Without knowing exactly what is in his contract, MLS contracts do seem to have some areas in which one could question their legality. If there is a reasonable chance of losing they might try to find a way to solve the situation without having a decision made in court that could change how they operate the way the Bosman ruling changed European football. Unnamed Trialist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Watchmen said: I think part of the problem here is that none of the teams view Larin as one they're willing to go to court over and challenge the MLS legality of the option clause. They'd sign him for free. But given the legal costs of challenging the option clause (and you know MLS would fight like hell to defend it), he's not worth it. Actually, if you follow what I have posted from some legal analyses, MLS does NOT want to fight like hell to defend these rulings. Otherwise they would have taken it to FIFA before. It is just the opposite. They know they risk the entire concept and its mass application across MLS if they try to defend it as a general principle, so they prefer to let it be and apply the option clauses, then go to individual cases and fight them out, scrambling for an a posteriori compensation. Why else would a team with a player on contract, so they say, with 2 years left, start seriously negotiating with another club only AFTER the player has announced he's leaving? Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheatsheafSK Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 14 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said: MLS is asking a for a transfer fee which is about ten times more than he was paid these past three seasons. Which would be like TFC asking over 200 million US for Giovinco. As a TFC fan - that sounds about right. dbailey62, Obinna and Unnamed Trialist 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 This is getting hilarious. Our American firends can cry all they want that Larin f'ed up but Orlando's front office are either not being transparent or they are truly incompetent. No way that shit flies in the NHL or other leagues Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) Full article on it with quote from Besiktas https://www.prosoccerusa.com/orlando-city-sc/orlando-citys-cyle-larin-turkey-working-besiktas-jk-video-shows/ Edited January 23, 2018 by Rheo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 From what I understood from legal sources posted, by training with Besiktas he clearly indicates that he has not accepted the contract extension, that his will is to be transferred. I suppose as well that he has instructed his bank to not accept payment from Orlando, to reject his salary from that club. FIFA apparently takes this a an additional sign that the player at no time agreed to the extension being executed, and it should not be applied, along with previous Larin statements, made months ago, that he wanted to move out. It is not the only criteria that would be used, but an important one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 The only real risk, as I see it, is that he won't be able to play until the international transfer goes through, no matter what happens. That would be from US Soccer to the Turkish federation, what is called an International Transfer Certificate. Until Orlando receives compensation and cashes it, indicating they have accepted the deal, USSoccer will not send a transfer, defending Orlando's rights. I think this is fair. Some federations stonewall on such transfers, but there is a limit to how long they can delay after a transfer payment has been paid, I think something like 2 weeks, would have to check. FIFA transfer law requires that each federation include articles in its own transfer rules allowing for mutual termination of contracts for just cause, and for unilateral termination, for sporting reasons. I have no idea whether Larin is in the right here, or what Besiktas' arguments are. I am just assuming that they have some idea of what they are doing or they would not risk this situation, or Larin. Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Larin pulls a Dero. lulz. Doing his best to burn all the bridges. I hope he's getting good legal advice. Between his DUI and now this, I question his decision making. On side note, Man U decided to activate club options on several players. And I'm pretty sure Man U's legal team doesn't suck. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/11/10/man-utd-extend-contracts-quartet-invoking-12-month-options-current/ Lofty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 25 minutes ago, Yohan said: Larin pulls a Dero. lulz. Doing his best to burn all the bridges. I hope he's getting good legal advice. Between his DUI and now this, I question his decision making. On side note, Man U decided to activate club options on several players. And I'm pretty sure Man U's legal team doesn't suck. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/11/10/man-utd-extend-contracts-quartet-invoking-12-month-options-current/ Unless those guys are underpaid, objecting and actively seeking to get transferred, I don't really think there are the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheatsheafSK Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 34 minutes ago, Yohan said: Larin pulls a Dero. lulz. Doing his best to burn all the bridges. I hope he's getting good legal advice. Between his DUI and now this, I question his decision making. On side note, Man U decided to activate club options on several players. And I'm pretty sure Man U's legal team doesn't suck. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/11/10/man-utd-extend-contracts-quartet-invoking-12-month-options-current/ I took his DUI as a sign that it was time to move on. Not only did he exercise poor judgement and discipline, but he showed a complete lack of professionalism for himself and the Lions. It shows that he was getting complacent and not holding himself to a higher standard (or in this case - a common legal standard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheatsheafSK Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said: From what I understood from legal sources posted, by training with Besiktas he clearly indicates that he has not accepted the contract extension, that his will is to be transferred. I suppose as well that he has instructed his bank to not accept payment from Orlando, to reject his salary from that club. FIFA apparently takes this a an additional sign that the player at no time agreed to the extension being executed, and it should not be applied, along with previous Larin statements, made months ago, that he wanted to move out. It is not the only criteria that would be used, but an important one. Interesting. Does FIFA set the forum, or can MLS or Orlando choose? This could make a difference as to how the contract is interpreted. Often a contract will stipulate that if there is a dispute, where that dispute will be heard and which laws apply. If Orlando brings a case in Florida courts, presumably Florida law will apply and it will be interpreted as an employment contracts and they may view FIFA rules as mere guiding principles. No expert on Florida law, but I suspect they would me more open to unilateral extensions. If teams are required to bring a dispute before the CAS, than FIFA rules will be given more weight and Larin/Besiktas will have a better chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) I think Besiktas found a loophole https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/regulations_on_the_status_and_transfer_of_players_en_33410.pdf 1.All applications to register a professional must be submitted by the new club to the new association during one of the registration periods established by that association. All applications shall be accompanied by a copy of the contract between the new club and the professional. A professional is not eligible to play in official matches for his new club until an ITC has been issued by the former association and received by the new association. 2.Upon receipt of the application, the new association shall immediately request the former association to issue an ITC for the professional (“ITC request”). An association that receives an unsolicited ITC from another association is not entitled to register the professional concerned with one of its clubs. 3.Upon receipt of the ITC request, the former association shall immediately request the former club and the professional to confirm whether the professional’s contract has expired, whether early termination was mutually agreed or whether a contractual dispute exists.4.Within seven days of receiving the ITC request, the former association shall either: a) issue the ITC to the new association; or b)inform the new association that the ITC cannot be issued because the contract between the former club and the professional has not expired or that there has been no mutual agreement regarding its early termination.5.If the new association does not receive a response to the ITC request within 30 days of the ITC request being made, it shall immediately register the professional with the new club on a provisional basis (“provisional registration”). A provisional registration shall become permanent one year after the ITC request. The Players’ Status Committee may withdraw a provisional registration, if, during this one-year period, the former association presents valid reasons explaining why it did not respond to the ITC request. I think Orlando might have mess up administratively on this Edited January 23, 2018 by Ansem Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Yohan said: Larin pulls a Dero. lulz. Doing his best to burn all the bridges. I hope he's getting good legal advice. Between his DUI and now this, I question his decision making. On side note, Man U decided to activate club options on several players. And I'm pretty sure Man U's legal team doesn't suck. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/11/10/man-utd-extend-contracts-quartet-invoking-12-month-options-current/ Quite likely a club like ManU and the player agents had the good sense to negotiate the wages on those options at the time of the contract signings. Kadenge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Ansem said: I think Besiktas found a loophole https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/regulations_on_the_status_and_transfer_of_players_en_33410.pdf 1.All applications to register a professional must be submitted by the new club to the new association during one of the registration periods established by that association. All applications shall be accompanied by a copy of the contract between the new club and the professional. A professional is not eligible to play in official matches for his new club until an ITC has been issued by the former association and received by the new association. 2.Upon receipt of the application, the new association shall immediately request the former association to issue an ITC for the professional (“ITC request”). An association that receives an unsolicited ITC from another association is not entitled to register the professional concerned with one of its clubs. 3.Upon receipt of the ITC request, the former association shall immediately request the former club and the professional to confirm whether the professional’s contract has expired, whether early termination was mutually agreed or whether a contractual dispute exists.4.Within seven days of receiving the ITC request, the former association shall either: a) issue the ITC to the new association; or b)inform the new association that the ITC cannot be issued because the contract between the former club and the professional has not expired or that there has been no mutual agreement regarding its early termination.5.If the new association does not receive a response to the ITC request within 30 days of the ITC request being made, it shall immediately register the professional with the new club on a provisional basis (“provisional registration”). A provisional registration shall become permanent one year after the ITC request. The Players’ Status Committee may withdraw a provisional registration, if, during this one-year period, the former association presents valid reasons explaining why it did not respond to the ITC request. I think Orlando might have mess up administratively on this 30 days has not expired yet, the transfer window opened on Jan. 1st. I guess we'll find out some time in mid-Feb. if the USSF sent a response. The USSF will be charged with the admin. work on this one, they will receive the ITC request from the Turkish FA and then liase with MLS and Orlando. Edited January 23, 2018 by jpg75 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, jpg75 said: 30 days has not expired yet, the transfer window opened on Jan. 1st. I guess we'll find out shortly after Jan. 30th if the USSF sent a response. The USSF will be charged with the admin. work on this one, they will receive the ITC request from the Turkish FA and then liase with MLS and Orlando. I have another theory... Besiktas kept saying that they thought of Larin as a free agent. Orlando sat on their option until December. Possible that the Turkish FA sent the ITC request earlier and the USSF sent the request to Orlando who didn't answer because in their minds Larin was still under contract and were waiting for the transfer window and an offer...If they had replied to item #4 within 7 days, it would have ended this whole saga as they would have clarified Larin status. Something isn't right because Orlando had every opportunities to kill this in it's infancy. This situation going this far means that Besiktas might have done their homework more than we think and actually have somewhat of a case, enough to get the temporary ITC allowing Larin to play If Besiktas is that confident to get the temporary ITC, they must have missed the window, otherwise Orlando would have USSF to block it yesterday. Just my theory Edited January 23, 2018 by Ansem Kadenge, Obinna and dbailey62 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion26 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Besikstas really don't have 5 mil to pay for Larin.... This is crazy right now that they can't just pay it and move on. Obviously MLS/Orlando are being babies about this, but dang just pay for him and move on. It shouldn't even be news, but it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Scorpion26 said: Besikstas really don't have 5 mil to pay for Larin.... This is crazy right now that they can't just pay it and move on. Obviously MLS/Orlando are being babies about this, but dang just pay for him and move on. It shouldn't even be news, but it is... Why would they pay it and move on? How is that to their advantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Ansem said: I have another theory... Besiktas kept saying that they thought of Larin as a free agent. Orlando sat on their option until December. Possible that the Turkish FA sent the ITC request earlier and the USSF sent the request to Orlando who didn't answer because in their minds Larin was still under contract and were waiting for the transfer window and an offer...If they had replied to item #4 within 7 days, it would have ended this whole saga as they would have clarified Larin status. Something isn't right because Orlando had every opportunities to kill this in it's infancy. This situation going this far means that Besiktas might have done their homework more than we think and actually have somewhat of a case, enough to get the temporary ITC allowing Larin to play If Besiktas is that confident to get the temporary ITC, they must have missed the window, otherwise Orlando would have USSF to block it yesterday. Just my theory They can't send an ITC request until the player has signed a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Scorpion26 said: Besikstas really don't have 5 mil to pay for Larin.... This is crazy right now that they can't just pay it and move on. Obviously MLS/Orlando are being babies about this, but dang just pay for him and move on. It shouldn't even be news, but it is... its not crazy, contract disputes happen all the time in world football, the FIFA Dispute Resolution Chamber exists for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 minute ago, jpg75 said: They can't send an ITC request until the player has signed a contract. Ok, so that would mean that they are still within the 30 days, assuming that Larin did sign with Besiktas at the beginning of January. Then I don't get how else they could get their hands on that temporary ITC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpg_29 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) Interesting about them not intending to loan him out after reports that he would be. Wonder if them intending to loan him or not would have any bearing into the decision on whether transfer can happen. Edited January 23, 2018 by mpg_29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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