Vote: CPL cities needed to succeed

[Viruk42]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Please list your recent most constructive posts and we can have a conversation. On this or any thread.

Thanks

I proposed a league structure (3 clusters to reduce travel costs). You may not view it as constructive, because you don't believe a league is happening and none of us have the power to implement league structures, but you never know if anyone from the CSA is keeping a tab on the forums. Beyond that, it's also constructive because it leads people to think about whether such a structure is a good idea or not, then they respond.

Your turn.

[MtlMario]

13 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I don't know how many of you have spent time with well-off CEOs and high level politicians. My experience is mostly in Spain, where they are accessible, for one, and, in general, discreet. They know perfectly well keeping secrets is important, sometimes they are incredibly opaque. Officially. So I admit this is possible but not what actually happens, because we are talking about major projects with tons of stakeholders including urban neighbourhoods, not related to their core business, part of their recreational use of assets, something they perceive as fun and are excited about. Not something to be quiet about.

With so many stakeholders and participants, someone has to leak. In fact someone, always, has an interest in leaking. And if not the CEO, with his friends and family (for sure they all get told, owning a soccer team is not like building a new parts warehouse or galvinizing plant), lawyers, accountants, those doing off the record feasibility studies, architects, soccer types in the community, local and provincial politicians (on stadiums, on access to them, on parking around them, on that freeway exit needed, any public works as those things take years to put together). And someone always, amongst all those people, is going to talk. 

You are saying that this simply has not happened, except in one case.

If anyone thinks in the Canadian soccer network a rumour out of Hamilton being the only remotely apparently substantiated story is solid ground for a league, I think this is deluded. In any case, if they are operating this way, it is bad business, and I'll tell you why.

First, it is not the normal modus operandi. Just look at any city interested in an MLS franchise. They keep things totally secret and nothing comes out. No, just joking. Because it is never that way. They blab, they get together with a bunch of deep pocket buddies, and they throw a press conference and brag like shit. They do this to mark out the territory, establish their case, scare off any local rivals; they do what you guys are doing on the other thread, they have a logo designed. A stadium model or rendering appears. Names of possible GMs come out, they get local soccer heroes in line. It is all out in the open, hugely. Why keep anything secret? Openness is the way to make the project happen, not secrecy. Secrecy is a euphemism for smoke.

Secondly, this total openness is also good, because it creates a competitive environment and drives positive hype. You are fighting to get a franchise, and you want the momentum to build, if you are the CSA promoting this, you want all the stuff to get out and have this huge brag-fest, and bidding war, and get those left out jealous and upping the offers, and some mayor in Moncton or Kelowna getting an idea, because it is all out there. It cannot be done as a private men's club deal, hidden, secretive, with owners being agreed upon with a governing body in private (which would be unethical and essentially a form of monopolistic favouritism, a trust, and so likely illegal). You cannot have a secret Masonic or illuminati trust coming up with an 8 or 6 or 4 team league that gets to play in a public stadium, and one day, have a press conference, and for the first time ever discover there is this amazing huge thing happening (Jesus had kids and all that, such a dumb book that was), and until that moment nobody knew absolutely anything about it.

 

Remember a few years back that Blackberry CEO that wanted to bring the NHL to Hamilton and everybody knew about it. We never heard anything about Winnipeg getting back their hockey team any we all know how that all turned out. All I am saying is sometimes quiet is better. By the way as I mentioned in a earlier post maybe you and Bring Back the Blizzard can open up a Pessimist Club and....... naw forget it, it will never work.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

1 hour ago, MtlMario said:

All I am saying is sometimes quiet is better. By the way as I mentioned in a earlier post maybe you and Bring Back the Blizzard can open up a Pessimist Club and....... naw forget it, it will never work.

[ted]

11 hours ago, C2SKI said:

If Victoria Highlanders were approached I assume we would've heard by now. That club is still largely supporter owned, is it not? I imagine voting members would have been made aware of the situation.

Nope. The supporter "ownership" scheme was never finalized and the team was sold two years ago when Campbell walked away.  The current owners are neither wealthy nor overly communicative outside the season.

I'd ask but frankly, I'm afraid of a bad answer so I'll keep living in my deluded bubble where we can still be on the "potential" list.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

I am so happy for you guys, really am. Have you chosen a date for the ceremony?

[Viruk42]

11 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I am so happy for you guys, really am. Have you chosen a date for the ceremony?

Nah, I figured we'd just wait until you said something useful and constructive, rather than continuing to play the role of "miserable bastard". I mean, I know you do it oh so well, but it's kind of a sad role to take. 

Here, does this cheer you up?

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Viruk42 said:

I proposed a league structure (3 clusters to reduce travel costs). You may not view it as constructive, because you don't believe a league is happening and none of us have the power to implement league structures, but you never know if anyone from the CSA is keeping a tab on the forums. Beyond that, it's also constructive because it leads people to think about whether such a structure is a good idea or not, then they respond.

Your turn.

You proposed a league structure, and you think that was very constructive. 

I propose Russia. under international pressure, force Asad to step down and cede the government to a coalition for a national transition to peace, under the auspices of the US, Russia, along with some EU representation. This coalition attends humanitarian concerns first, then rebuilding, and, works for a demilitarization across the board.

A total ceasefire is imposed and the only military activity is directed towards ISIS.

See, it is easy to be constructive. My peace plan for Syria is much more precise than your Canada soccer league system, and, on top of it, way more constructive than your proposal for Canadian soccer, because it will save lives in the present and builds peace for the future. Meaning it is completely and entirely not at all constructive in any way, shape or form. 

If you can't come up with a better proposal for Syria, then leave us alone those of us who are working positively to the war's solution.

[MtlMario]

20 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You proposed a league structure, and you think that was very constructive. 

I propose Russia. under international pressure, force Asad to step down and cede the government to a coalition for a national transition to peace, under the auspices of the US, Russia, along with some EU representation. This coalition attends humanitarian concerns first, then rebuilding, and, works for a demilitarization across the board.

A total ceasefire is imposed and the only military activity is directed towards ISIS.

See, it is easy to be constructive. My peace plan for Syria is much more precise than your Canada soccer league system, and, on top of it, way more constructive than your proposal for Canadian soccer, because it will save lives in the present and builds peace for the future. Meaning it is completely and entirely not at all constructive in any way, shape or form. 

If you can't come up with a better proposal for Syria, then leave us alone those of us who are working positively to the war's solution.

I knew I saw you at the UN headquarters.

[MtlMario]

22 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You proposed a league structure, and you think that was very constructive. 

I propose Russia. under international pressure, force Asad to step down and cede the government to a coalition for a national transition to peace, under the auspices of the US, Russia, along with some EU representation. This coalition attends humanitarian concerns first, then rebuilding, and, works for a demilitarization across the board.

A total ceasefire is imposed and the only military activity is directed towards ISIS.

See, it is easy to be constructive. My peace plan for Syria is much more precise than your Canada soccer league system, and, on top of it, way more constructive than your proposal for Canadian soccer, because it will save lives in the present and builds peace for the future. Meaning it is completely and entirely not at all constructive in any way, shape or form. 

If you can't come up with a better proposal for Syria, then leave us alone those of us who are working positively to the war's solution.

I do not know why you are wasting your time here when you should be solving the world s problems.

[Viruk42]

8 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You proposed a league structure, and you think that was very constructive. 

I propose Russia. under international pressure, force Asad to step down and cede the government to a coalition for a national transition to peace, under the auspices of the US, Russia, along with some EU representation. This coalition attends humanitarian concerns first, then rebuilding, and, works for a demilitarization across the board.

A total ceasefire is imposed and the only military activity is directed towards ISIS.

See, it is easy to be constructive. My peace plan for Syria is much more precise than your Canada soccer league system, and, on top of it, way more constructive than your proposal for Canadian soccer, because it will save lives in the present and builds peace for the future. Meaning it is completely and entirely not at all constructive in any way, shape or form. 

If you can't come up with a better proposal for Syria, then leave us alone those of us who are working positively to the war's solution.

Hurray! Now you've moved from expressing disdain to being facetious! I guess this means you don't like kittens?

Okay, well, I think the problem with your plan for Syria is the imperialist vibe it gives off - US, Russia, and EU to rule over an Arab nation? No thanks.
I don't disagree with the first part, if you can pressure Russia to force Assad to step down, that's a great first step. But after that you need to get some locals involved, whether they be Syrians specifically or at least some other Arabs. If this was the 70s, I'd look to Egypt for that, but I'm not a big fan of el-Sisi, so they might not be the best choice. Perhaps Tunisia, under the centre-left secularists in Nidaa Tounes, and led by Essebsi, would be a better choice to lead a coalition of nations aiding the Syrians in their recovery. I admit I'm a little out of touch on African politics, but Romeo Dallaire spoke very highly of the Ghanain troops he led in Rwanda, so I'd ask them for help, with the West supplying better equipment for any armed forces they send (Dallaire also noted they were poorly equipped, but again, that's over 20 years ago now).
The West should be almost entirely hands off, supplying money and other resources, but not much else. We need to stop with the idea that we can just invade other countries and kill their people in order to bring them "democracy". 
 

Anyway, considering this thread is entirely devoted to the idea of a potential Canadian soccer league, let us return to the topic at hand? Can you, with all your wisdom and knowledge, tell me, the naive and delusional fan, what I can do to help improve soccer in Canada? Because so far all I've seen from you is the typed equivalent of hot air, and as long as you continue to be an asshole for no apparent reason, I will respond in kind.

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 minutes ago, Viruk42 said:

Hurray! Now you've moved from expressing disdain to being facetious! I guess this means you don't like kittens?

Okay, well, I think the problem with your plan for Syria is the imperialist vibe it gives off - US, Russia, and EU to rule over an Arab nation? No thanks.
I don't disagree with the first part, if you can pressure Russia to force Assad to step down, that's a great first step. But after that you need to get some locals involved, whether they be Syrians specifically or at least some other Arabs. If this was the 70s, I'd look to Egypt for that, but I'm not a big fan of el-Sisi, so they might not be the best choice. Perhaps Tunisia, under the centre-left secularists in Nidaa Tounes, and led by Essebsi, would be a better choice to lead a coalition of nations aiding the Syrians in their recovery. I admit I'm a little out of touch on African politics, but Romeo Dallaire spoke very highly of the Ghanain troops he led in Rwanda, so I'd ask them for help, with the West supplying better equipment for any armed forces they send (Dallaire also noted they were poorly equipped, but again, that's over 20 years ago now).
The West should be almost entirely hands off, supplying money and other resources, but not much else. We need to stop with the idea that we can just invade other countries and kill their people in order to bring them "democracy". 
 

Anyway, considering this thread is entirely devoted to the idea of a potential Canadian soccer league, let us return to the topic at hand? Can you, with all your wisdom and knowledge, tell me, the naive and delusional fan, what I can do to help improve soccer in Canada? Because so far all I've seen from you is the typed equivalent of hot air, and as long as you continue to be an asshole for no apparent reason, I will respond in kind.

Those first four paragraphs were the most constructive content appearing on this thread since it was started. I congratulate you.

 

[dyslexic nam]

So, to sum up, you guys are agreeing on the following cities for the CPL:

• Damascus
• Moscow
• Washington
• Cairo
• Tunis
• Accra

To bring your list up to 8 teams, I am going to throw in Halifax and Moncton since they are pretty consistent with the others you referenced.

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You proposed a league structure, and you think that was very constructive. 

I propose Russia. under international pressure, force Asad to step down and cede the government to a coalition for a national transition to peace, under the auspices of the US, Russia, along with some EU representation. This coalition attends humanitarian concerns first, then rebuilding, and, works for a demilitarization across the board.

A total ceasefire is imposed and the only military activity is directed towards ISIS.

See, it is easy to be constructive. My peace plan for Syria is much more precise than your Canada soccer league system, and, on top of it, way more constructive than your proposal for Canadian soccer, because it will save lives in the present and builds peace for the future. Meaning it is completely and entirely not at all constructive in any way, shape or form. 

If you can't come up with a better proposal for Syria, then leave us alone those of us who are working positively to the war's solution.

Um, that was an unexpected turn. I have to admit though, I'm a bit honoured how close my first Voyageurs thread is to fulfilling Godwin's Law.

[Gordon]

7 hours ago, rob.notenboom said:

Important cultural factoid*: People from Swift Current generally don't call it Speedy Creek. Only people from away do. 

*not important

While I think many are taking the swift current suggestion in jest, when you include the greater metropolitan area - herinafter referred to as GSCA - it totally changes the dynamics of the conversation!

Another interesting factoid*: I have met a total of 8 people admitting to being from Swift Current and they are all in the second standard deviation, four at each end, of the mega asshole to amazingly awesome spectrum. The city simply does not produce mundane emigrants.

* to me only

[rob.notenboom]

12 minutes ago, Gordon said:

While I think many are taking the swift current suggestion in jest, when you include the greater metropolitan area - herinafter referred to as GSCA - it totally changes the dynamics of the conversation!

Another interesting factoid*: I have met a total of 8 people admitting to being from Swift Current and they are all in the second standard deviation, four at each end, of the mega asshole to amazingly awesome spectrum. The city simply does not produce mundane emigrants.

Wow that is quite a spread! Curious if I know any of them. If they are mid 40s it's highly likely. 

Since we're on a trivia tangent, several years ago the City of Swift Current commissioned a study with the intent of using it to promote the city both as a tourist destination and as a welcoming place to move to and raise a family. They contacted several dozen families who had moved to SC and asked them to fill out a questionnaire. Unfortunately the city was unable to use the results. The overwhelming majority of respondents said that while it was a safe, family-oriented community, many people looked askance at folks who had not grown up in the city. They described locals as being cold, unwelcoming, and occasionally hostile. Needless to say, the results weren't used, at least for their intended purpose. Personally I never felt Swift to be like that, but I think the high school environment was different than the adult one. 

And before I get blasted for calling the community a 'city', in SK you can be a city if you're population is 5000 or more.

[Rintaran]

I realize this post jumped the shark a ways back, but if I had to "vote" on 8 cities the CPL "needs":

1. GTA (independent) - whether this is Mississuaga, Vaughan, or Pickering

2. Hamilton (done)

3. Quebec

4. Regina or Saskatoon

5. Winnipeg

6. Calgary

7. BC Lower Mainland (independent of Whitecaps)

8. Moncton or Halifax

 

Future expansions (in no particular order):

1. Victoria, BC

2. Thunder Bay, ON

3. London, ON

4. Montreal Area, PQ

5. Edmonton, AB

6. 2nd Atlantic Canada Team (Newfoundland-based maybe)

7. 2nd GTA-area independent team

8. Greater Vancouver-area independent team

[C2SKI]

3 hours ago, ted said:

Nope. The supporter "ownership" scheme was never finalized and the team was sold two years ago when Campbell walked away.  The current owners are neither wealthy nor overly communicative outside the season.

I'd ask but frankly, I'm afraid of a bad answer so I'll keep living in my deluded bubble where we can still be on the "potential" list.

Well that's disappointing. Thanks for the update though.

[Complete Homer]

18 minutes ago, Rintaran said:

I realize this post jumped the shark a ways back, but if I had to "vote" on 8 cities the CPL "needs":

1. GTA (independent) - whether this is Mississuaga, Vaughan, or Pickering

2. Hamilton (done)

3. Quebec

4. Regina or Saskatoon

5. Winnipeg

6. Calgary

7. BC Lower Mainland (independent of Whitecaps)

8. Moncton or Halifax

 

Future expansions (in no particular order):

1. Victoria, BC

2. Thunder Bay, ON

3. London, ON

4. Montreal Area, PQ

5. Edmonton, AB

6. 2nd Atlantic Canada Team (Newfoundland-based maybe)

7. 2nd GTA-area independent team

8. Greater Vancouver-area independent team

You forgot Swift Current 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Okay I am going to throw in a contingency, since I am not as dogmatic as some would like me to be.

Let's take as highly likely there are no ownership groups really confirmed in any solid way, except, maybe, Hamilton. This is very nice for Hamilton as it means they are leading the pack and all power to them. But the rest, don't think there is any basis to believe there is anything happening, for the reasons given. Vic has not met with business people across the country, nor politicians, nor soccer communities, in any substantial way at all, there is nothing going on. And if they are dealing secretly, that is unethical and biased practice on the part of the CSA or whoever is negotiating for them.

So the CSA, if they are initiating, has not done the legwork on that, what have they done?

Perhaps they have come up with a model, a general, overall model, which could be similar to some being bandied about here. Something totally on paper, abstract, thought out nonetheless. With some minimums, like teams, cost structure, overall league budget, Canadian player content. That is it, something this thread suggests any half-assed soccer fan could figure out, me included.

So what would this announcement of a future announcement be about? Logical: they are going to announce they have a plan on paper. That is it. They may have some senior Canadian player or famous face to help sell it, but they are going to announce paper. And the paper will say: hey, if you are interested, come talk to us, we'll give you 6 months to propose and apply and bid or whatever, and we'll respond. By phone, and maybe come out to see you. 

And yeah, Hamilton: okay, we like you, but since we have to be fair and not let you be influence peddling or make deals before the bell when others have not been allowed to, we have to let others in Hamilton bid against you and you might not like that. Basically, that all your efforts there are fine, but sorry, its a free market country, and you may feel you are now getting screwed. Can't see it any other way, frankly.

After six months, if there are not enough ownership groups who have done the numbers, agreed on them, spoken to city officials about stadiums, and training facilities, and if all the other intangibles have not been dealt with at least in cursory fashion, the project will die out for lack of support. And for the MLS teams working against it, and maybe the NASL too. And both those leagues making little tweeks to those league systems to cut the CPL off at the pass. 

[ironcub14]

Just caught up to the last 5 days on this thread, wow Uncle Vic brought peace to Syria by 2018, damn he's pretty good.

[ironcub14]

To me, if the XFL and the Lingerie Football League are real things that have existed in the past, and still do, then I do not see why a CPL is inconceivable whatsoever, as long as some rich people out there truly believe it is worth their time and their investment. 

The plausibility of this interest, as well as the sustainability of said league, are all incredibly legitimate and fascinating topics that are more than worthy of our time and discussion. Dare to dream, and argue. 

For real though, my gut feeling is that a proposed 2018 launch date is incredibly rushed, and I would far rather they take their time and aim for a 2019 or 2020 launch. 

[TRM]

27 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

 they take their time and aim for a 2019 or 2020 launch. 

You may get your wish and a lot more .... 2021, 2022, 2023

 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I propose Russia. under international pressure, force Asad to step down and cede the government to a coalition for a national transition to peace, under the auspices of the US, Russia, along with some EU representation. This coalition attends humanitarian concerns first, then rebuilding, and, works for a demilitarization across the board.

A total ceasefire is imposed and the only military activity is directed towards ISIS.

 

Damn, I still think you're a tad bit of a prick, but this sounds like a pretty damn good plan actually(no sarcasm,honestly).  Credit where it's due.

[Viruk42]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Perhaps they have come up with a model, a general, overall model, which could be similar to some being bandied about here. Something totally on paper, abstract, thought out nonetheless. With some minimums, like teams, cost structure, overall league budget, Canadian player content. That is it, something this thread suggests any half-assed soccer fan could figure out, me included.

So what would this announcement of a future announcement be about? Logical: they are going to announce they have a plan on paper. That is it. They may have some senior Canadian player or famous face to help sell it, but they are going to announce paper. And the paper will say: hey, if you are interested, come talk to us, we'll give you 6 months to propose and apply and bid or whatever, and we'll respond. By phone, and maybe come out to see you. 

And yeah, Hamilton: okay, we like you, but since we have to be fair and not let you be influence peddling or make deals before the bell when others have not been allowed to, we have to let others in Hamilton bid against you and you might not like that. Basically, that all your efforts there are fine, but sorry, its a free market country, and you may feel you are now getting screwed. Can't see it any other way, frankly.

After six months, if there are not enough ownership groups who have done the numbers, agreed on them, spoken to city officials about stadiums, and training facilities, and if all the other intangibles have not been dealt with at least in cursory fashion, the project will die out for lack of support. And for the MLS teams working against it, and maybe the NASL too. And both those leagues making little tweeks to those league systems to cut the CPL off at the pass. 

Thank you.

I disagree to some extent, as I think the on-paper plan can and would be done privately while chatting to prospective owners, but I agree that the rumblings only prove that they're talking about it, not that it's happening.

I highlighted those last two lines because, to me, that's a very good reason to keep things quiet as long as possible. But again, I recognize that (as you've said previously, though not in this comment) there are always leaks. Having said that, perhaps the reason there haven't been many leaks is simply that there is not enough of an active media presence investigating a CPL? Like, sure, there's the Rollins' and Squizzato's and the like, but they can't be interviewing every potential owner - and people such as those two, the people who might be investigating the CPL, might be more willing to keep quiet as long as possible if it helps the league happen. Not to mention that the CSA is based in Ottawa, which has a pretty shit sports media (see below), so it might be easier for them to keep talks quiet, whereas if they were working out of Toronto it might be tougher. 

--------------------------------------
Ottawa's lead sports columnist for the city's only even mildly respectable newspaper, the Ottawa Citizen, is Wayne Scanlan. A while back, I challenged his claim (in an article) that hockey's red line was introduced to reduce offense. He disagreed, saying that it "seems a bit odd to aim to speed up the game while reducing breakaways, but if removing the red line this season has created a more open game, with plenty of breakaways, it stands to reason that the first implemention in the 1940s was designed to control play a little more" - ignoring the fact that the red line was introduced so that players could pass the puck forward across the blue line, which had previously been against the rules, a fact I had told him twice already (with sources provided). Point is, if he's not accurate about something easily researched on the country's most popular sport and yet is still their lead sports columnist... well, to me at least, it doesn't reflect well on Ottawa's sports journalism.

[Gordon]

3 hours ago, rob.notenboom said:

Wow that is quite a spread! Curious if I know any of them. If they are mid 40s it's highly likely. 

Since we're on a trivia tangent, several years ago the City of Swift Current commissioned a study with the intent of using it to promote the city both as a tourist destination and as a welcoming place to move to and raise a family. They contacted several dozen families who had moved to SC and asked them to fill out a questionnaire. Unfortunately the city was unable to use the results. The overwhelming majority of respondents said that while it was a safe, family-oriented community, many people looked askance at folks who had not grown up in the city. They described locals as being cold, unwelcoming, and occasionally hostile. Needless to say, the results weren't used, at least for their intended purpose. Personally I never felt Swift to be like that, but I think the high school environment was different than the adult one. 

And before I get blasted for calling the community a 'city', in SK you can be a city if you're population is 5000 or more.

Mid fifties, but you probably at least know their relatives, because, well, you know...Saskatchewan, where it is impossible to go past 3 degrees of seperation.