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Vote: CPL cities needed to succeed


Kent

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We've used up pages and pages of the CPL thread debating things like USL involvement in the CPL, will FC Edmonton make the jump, could KW ever have a team, would independent teams in the MLS cities work and are those cities needed, etc. I thought it would be good to have a separate thread to vote on the 8 cities you think should have the first 8 teams in the league. Whether that's 8 teams at launch, or 6 at launch with an expansion to 8 down the road. Let's see if we get some kind of consensus and we can compare with reality if/when the CPL and it's teams get announced.

I wasn't able to find a way to make a poll where you get people to make 8 selections, so unfortunately this will have to be done manually, and as a result it won't be anonymous. If there is actually a way to do this with the Poll feature, let me know or start another thread and close this one. I'll list the semi-reasonable cities that have been mentioned below. Respond with your 8 selections and I'll update this post with vote counts. For the purposes of this vote let's assume there won't be a CPL and NASL team in the same city, so if Ottawa has a team it is probably the Fury moving over, and if Edmonton have a team it is either FC Edmonton moving over, or a new team being formed while FC Edmonton fold at the same time. However, I'll make 2 separate choices for the MLS cities. One for the USL team moving over, and another for a new independent team. If you really want to do a write in vote for something not listed (like the nuclear option of moving an MLS team over) feel free.

Top 6 are above the orange line. Top 8 are above the red line.

Calgary 26
Ottawa 25
Hamilton 24
Winnipeg 23
Edmonton 22
Toronto (independent) 21
Quebec City 19
Regina 12
Victoria 8
Vancouver (independent) 8
Moncton 5
Halifax 5
Montreal (independent) 4
Vancouver (USL) 1
Toronto (USL) 1
Montreal (USL) 1
London 1
Saskatoon 1
Nanaimo 1
Medicine Hat 1
Brandon 1
Swift Current 1
Sudbury 1
Guelph 1
Sherbrooke 1
Kingston 1
Mississauga 1
Kitchener-Waterloo 0

(Note: I have been counting Mississauga as Toronto, but they were each voted for by one person, so I have created Mississauga separately)

Yes, I've been militant/Hitler-like in my insistence on exactly 8 cities included (to keep out the riff raff). For clarity, here are the voters whose voice is counted above.

Kent, Shermanator, BrennanFan, Hammer, Ansem, Complete Homer, Viruk42, ted, matty, zen, Gopherbashi, toontownman, BringBackTheBlizzard, CDNFootballer, Pqhbv, baulderdash77, rob.notenboom, Copes, An Observer, Ngravs, GuillermoDelQuatro, Unnamed Trialist, johnyb, dyslexic nam, ironcub14, Tuscan, coppercanuck

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28 minutes ago, Kent said:

My vote:

Calgary
Edmonton
Winnipeg
Hamilton
Toronto (independent)
Ottawa
Quebec City
Regina

I realize this is intended to be a democratic thread, but I find it odd that a Canadian footy league would ignore the 4 provinces east on Quebec.  I realize the CFL doesn't have a presence here either, but I stand by my position that the proposed CPL should extend past the QC border.

For me, Atlantic Canada would need to be in the mix (likely Halifax or Moncton), as would BC (agnostic re Vancouver or Victoria).

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22 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I realize this is intended to be a democratic thread, but I find it odd that a Canadian footy league would ignore the 4 provinces east on Quebec.  I realize the CFL doesn't have a presence here either, but I stand by my position that the proposed CPL should extend past the QC border.

For me, Atlantic Canada would need to be in the mix (likely Halifax or Moncton), as would BC (agnostic re Vancouver or Victoria).

To be honest, I probably would have put Halifax in there if it weren't for the recent talk of a billionaire interested in a Toronto team.

Anyways, if/when you get a more solid feeling on the 8 cities you want to see included, you can get your voice counted in the OP.

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My vote at launch

Victoria (no competition)

They could build a structure like Empire field in Vancouver

The venue was constructed by Nussli Group in three months, cost $14.4 million and opened on June 15, 2010. The venue featured 20,500 roofed bucket seats—with the remaining 7,000 being benches—12 luxury suites, a press room, flood lighting and a FieldTurf artificial turf.

empire-fields-05-600x400.jpg

 

Calgary (natural rivalry with Edmonton)

Most likely the McMahon Stadium until/if CalgaryNext gets built

interior.jpg

Edmonton (natural rivalry with Calgary)

From my understanding, Clarke Stadium is indeed expandable and there were plans to renovate it. Older renderings looked like this:

Stadium%201(1).jpeg

Hamilton (it's a lock)

tim-hortons-field.png

Toronto Independent

I guess I changed my mind on this. This would be perfect

http://stadiumci.com/sci/projects/university-of-toronto-varsity-stadium/

UnivToronto-Varsity01-615x461.jpg

Ottawa

33159673-dd1c-488e-96b1-58d59b172d30_500

Quebec City

stade-telusul_ext.jpg

Moncton

ivory-coasts-players-attend-a-training-s

 

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Markets needed? I think as long as the pockets are deep enough, you could launch 6 teams anywhere in the cities listed to get proof of concept then move from there. What would I like/expect to see?

- Hamilton

- GTA

- Quebec City

- Ottawa

- Edmonton

- Calgary

- Winnipeg

- "Vancouver" (Surrey)

I see the first expansion as the BC team (I don't have a good feeling with them finding an owner, haven't heard any rumours) and QC

Later I would love to see Moncton and maybe Regina (but these are outside of the vote)

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1 minute ago, Ansem said:

My vote at launch

Victoria (no competition)

They could build a structure like Empire field in Vancouver

The venue was constructed by Nussli Group in three months, cost $14.4 million and opened on June 15, 2010. The venue featured 20,500 roofed bucket seats—with the remaining 7,000 being benches—12 luxury suites, a press room, flood lighting and a FieldTurf artificial turf.

empire-fields-05-600x400.jpg

 

Calgary (natural rivalry with Edmonton)

Most likely the McMahon Stadium until/if CalgaryNext gets built

interior.jpg

Edmonton (natural rivalry with Calgary)

From my understanding, Clarke Stadium is indeed expandable and there were plans to renovate it. Older renderings looked like this:

Stadium%201(1).jpeg

Hamilton (it's a lock)

tim-hortons-field.png

Toronto Independent

I guess I changed my mind on this. This would be perfect

http://stadiumci.com/sci/projects/university-of-toronto-varsity-stadium/

UnivToronto-Varsity01-615x461.jpg

Ottawa

33159673-dd1c-488e-96b1-58d59b172d30_500

Quebec City

stade-telusul_ext.jpg

Moncton

ivory-coasts-players-attend-a-training-s

 

I love the effort here. I am doubtful though of any Empire-esque fields. I am no engineer/project manager, but there has got to be a reason that stadium was so cheap. I suspect it was not built to standards required for long term (and multi-season) structures. I would love to see Victoria there, but I see that as a longer term project

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Here are my 11 to start:

  • Vancouver (independent) 
  • Calgary 
  • Edmonton
  • Regina 
  • Winnipeg 
  • Hamilton 
  • Toronto (independent) 
  • Ottawa 
  • Montreal (independent) 
  • Quebec City 
  • Halifax 

I do think that all these 11 cities are more than ever capable of starting up the league in 2018, rather than 8 clubs that we have been hearing. Furthermore, let's keep these clubs consistent. Do not expand to places like London, Windsor, Saskatoon, Moncton, etc... until 5  years from now.

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This is maybe a little weird, but I'd actually like to see 9 teams to start.

I know, odd numbers are strange, but here's how I see it: 3 teams in the west (presumably Calgary and Edmonton, along with one of Vancouver, Victoria, Regina, Saskatoon, and Winnipeg - I haven't been West of Ontario since 1997, so I'm not claiming to be an expert on which cities make sense), 3 teams in Ontario (Hamilton, GTA, Ottawa), and 3 teams in the east (Quebec City, Moncton, one of Halifax or St John's. Yes, St John's, bring back the 1985 magic).

Then you have three regional clusters; you can do home-home once against the 6 out-of-region teams (i.e. 12 games) and four or five times with the in-region teams (16 or 20 games). This way travel costs are reduced, and rivalries built up. At the end of the regular season, seeing as we're in a country used to playoffs, the top 4 teams could do home-and-home semi-finals, followed by a neutral venue final. 

 

...but if we're sticking with the more conventional 8 teams, 2 home-and-homes (total 28 games), then I guess I'll go with:
Victoria, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Ottawa, Quebec, Moncton

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I'm going to answer the question asked and give the cities needed to succeed. What will come as a shock is that I will not include Victoria. My home town would be a great location for the first season or expansion but is a nice "addition" rather than a requirement for the launch of the league.

Along those lines I will NOT include Toronto. It would be nice to have a team there independent of TFC but I believe the challenges it will face for market share will cancel out the benefits of a team in that market. So it too could be an expansion team down the road.

I will include Surrey as they will face similar - but I believe lesser - challenges to Toronto but having a team in BC will make more impact for the league as a whole. I also think that the larger market in Surrey and proximity to regional media gives it the edge over Victoria for the initial round.

I choose Calgary over Edmonton as I think a rival to Edmonton is needed even if they start in different leagues.

The first 8 teams needed for success:

Surrey (Lower Mainland)
Calgary
Regina
Winnipeg
Hamilton
Ottawa
Quebec City
Halifax

If I was going for 12 which would be a better league I would add:

Victoria
Edmonton
Toronto
Saskatoon/Moncton (sorry cannot choose between these two).

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Full disclosure, I've never been to BC. The people that have suggested Surrey, should I be putting those down as Vancouver (independent) or do you think I should create another option for Surrey separately?

So far I have been marking Surrey and BC as Vancouver (independent), but I'm happy to change it if people would like.

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53 minutes ago, PJSweet said:

Here are my 11 to start:

  • Vancouver (independent) 
  • Calgary 
  • Edmonton
  • Regina 
  • Winnipeg 
  • Hamilton 
  • Toronto (independent) 
  • Ottawa 
  • Montreal (independent) 
  • Quebec City 
  • Halifax 

I do think that all these 11 cities are more than ever capable of starting up the league in 2018, rather than 8 clubs that we have been hearing. Furthermore, let's keep these clubs consistent. Do not expand to places like London, Windsor, Saskatoon, Moncton, etc... until 5  years from now.

Thanks for the input PJSweet, but could you please pick a top 8 for your list? If you want to list others after that as well like Ted did, that is great, but I want to stick to 8 votes (no more or less) for the purposes of consistency. For example, so far nobody other than you have said Montreal. Perhaps if you trim your list down to 8, Montreal gets cut from your list and we know that nobody thinks Montreal should be part of the first 8.

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To start:

  • Victoria
  • Calgary
  • Edmonton
  • Winnipeg
  • Hamilton
  • Toronto (ind)
  • Ottawa
  • Quebec City

Expansion: (in this order)

  • Halifax
  • Regina
  • Vancouver (ind)
  • St. John's
  • Saskatoon
  • KW
  • Montreal (ind)
  • London
  • Kelowna
  • Abbotsford

That would be a nice 18 team league, 34 games per season + playoffs. 

I left Moncton out because of the prospect of the billionaire owner in Toronto. Given that it will be some time before the league expands, it might give Halifax, and St. John's time to sort out a stadium. It would make more sense to target those markets.

Also, long term I think the league will need teams in the big markets. Hopefully by then there will be enough of a soccer culture to be able to support both the MLS and independent teams in all 3 cities.

Surrey is to Vancouver; what Mississauga is to Toronto. Although Mississauga has more employment

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WEST
Vancouver
Calgary
Edmonton
Winnipeg
Victoria
Saskatoon (Honourable Mention)

 

EAST
Montreal
Toronto
Ottawa
Quebec
Hamilton
London  (Honourable Mention)

 

Also kind of curious as to how Windsor would do. Haven't actually been there before, but being so close to Detroit, and Detroit not having a full professional team, curious as to whether they would be able to draw many fans from across the border

 

 

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My eight:

Calgary
Edmonton
Winnipeg
London
Hamilton
Toronto (i)
Ottawa
Quebec

re: London.  This was a toss-up, but they've got a decent-sized stadium that could handle it at UWO, advantage of short road trips to Ham, Toronto, and Ottawa, and are the 11th-largest metro area in Canada.  #1 in OHL attendance.  Possibility of drawing some advertising revenue & attendance from KW, though at the expense of some going to Hamilton.  Also, I was sad that no one else voted for them.

re: QC.  The city is starved for pro sports, has a great love (and large stadium) for gridiron football, and you really need to put a team inside the province of Quebec.  And just think of the glorious day when we have a QC-MTL V-Cup matchup.

 

The rejects:

Victoria - It's a small market with no history of being able to support a pro sports team, and I don't see Vancouverites making an hours-long ferry trip from the mainland to go see them.  Combine the relatively-unlikely chance of success with the cost of everyone flying a hell of a long way to play them, and I don't see this one working.

Vancouver - It sounds heartless, but does Greater Vancouver need a second pro soccer team?  It doesn't seem big enough to warrant it in my mind.  Given the choice, I'd take this option over Victoria, especially with some proper regional branding (ie. Surrey, Mainland, etc.) - it's the better option in my mind in terms of population and rivalries.

Sask & Regina - Honestly, there's something about the love that Sask has for the Roughriders that tells me soccer won't be a great sell in the province.  All gut feeling.

KW - If London can't handle a team, I don't know how KW could; the downsides that London would have are only magnified with KW, and it's never really screamed "city" to me the way London has.

Montreal - Same as Vancouver, the city doesn't strike me as big enough to warrant a second pro team.

Moncton & Halifax - Same argument as Victoria, except on the opposite coast.  The CFL has been looking at east coast expansion on and off for 20 years, and they've never done it.  And they're a well-established league.  If they're not willing to make the jump out east after all that time, we probably shouldn't try it as a new league.

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33 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:
WEST
Vancouver
Calgary
Edmonton
Winnipeg
Victoria
Saskatoon (Honourable Mention)

 

EAST
Montreal
Toronto
Ottawa
Quebec
Hamilton
London  (Honourable Mention)

 

Also kind of curious as to how Windsor would do. Haven't actually been there before, but being so close to Detroit, and Detroit not having a full professional team, curious as to whether they would be able to draw many fans from across the border

Without your honourable mentions you still have 10 teams listed. Can you please trim it down to 8?

Yes, I am being a stickler. I love all the responses so far though. Keep it coming Voyageurs!

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Can I just vote Saskatoon for everything?

Personally I'm not a big fan of using any cities that currently have MLS/NASL/USL teams. I think they are serving the Canadian system already and hopefully at some stage they might come on board. If we are going the CFL route (which I still think is the smartest) that is unavoidable but for the most part I rather we stay away. 

With that in mind:

West

  • Calgary
  • Victoria 
  • Winnipeg
  • Begrudgingly Regina (They have the set up and stadium. With the passion and almost fanatic support of the Roughriders fans it is an absolute no brainer to be persuing that market)  

East

  • Hamiliton
  • Quebec City
  • Moncton
  • Halifax 
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I only just saw this now and am SHOCKED at the Saskatoon hate I'm finding here. Wait 5 years until places AS GLORIOUS as Saskatoon are considered? Piss on that, I say! My list (in order of Canadian city importance then West to East):

1. SASKATOON (go to hell haters!!!!!!!!!!!)

2. Victoria

3. Vancouver (independent)

4. Calgary

5. Edmonton (someone buy out the Faths, please)

6. Regina (someone threaten family members if the name Roughriders FC gets mentioned)

7. Winnipeg (really REALLY enjoying @Benjamin Massey's Riel Winnipeg name even if it was a joke)

8. GTA (independent, doesn't have to be right in Toronto, could be M'sauga etc)

9. Ottawa

10. Montreal (independent)

11. Quebec City

12. Halifax (due to @GuillermoDelQuarto's badge design)

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15 minutes ago, Tuscan said:

I only just saw this now and am SHOCKED at the Saskatoon hate I'm finding here. Wait 5 years until places AS GLORIOUS as Saskatoon are considered? Piss on that, I say! My list (in order of Canadian city importance then West to East):

1. SASKATOON (go to hell haters!!!!!!!!!!!)

2. Victoria

3. Vancouver (independent)

4. Calgary

5. Edmonton (someone buy out the Faths, please)

6. Regina (someone threaten family members if the name Roughriders FC gets mentioned)

7. Winnipeg (really REALLY enjoying @Benjamin Massey's Riel Winnipeg name even if it was a joke)

8. GTA (independent, doesn't have to be right in Toronto, could be M'sauga etc)

9. Ottawa

10. Montreal (independent)

11. Quebec City

12. Halifax (due to @GuillermoDelQuarto's badge design)

Oh god, how have I not seen "Riel Winnipeg" before?

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