Vote: CPL cities needed to succeed

[Viruk42]

On 25/09/2016 at 0:35 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

We are the only country in the UN without a league, with the exception of a few island with less people than the cast in Lost.

It has been this way for most of the history of the game, being generous. 

Think about it, ask yourself about it, and then try to be honest, just for once: is that a basis for optimism or pessimism?

I think you guys are not at all optimistic, you are deluded. The most probably scenario is the persistence of the existing status quo, because the existing status quo has the cards stacked in favour of a mere affirmation of what is and a full snubbing of what could be. The powers preferring this situation of non-action are the current major actors in Canadian soccer, along with general indifference, political ignorance, and glaring lack of business acumen.

Utopia can have the same illusory effects as  ideology, serving the perpetuation of any existing power structure and blinding the masses. Utopia without a clear analysis of reality, without a way to get there, is just a song in the wind, it is equivalent to a social lie. I am actually quoting someone  else now, but hey, seems to be pretty well constructed the idea, especially for this whole CPL business.

Well guys, I guess we'd better all give up. Nothing's going to change, so why bother trying, right? Heck, no point even talking about trying, or what we might do if given a chance, because it doesn't matter, nothing will change. It has been this way for most of the history of the game, and we all know that's never changed. 

Might as well shut down the (men's) national team program too - I mean, there's no way we'll ever win a World Cup, so why even bother? We could just save the money, spend it on the Women's team, at least they have a chance of winning.

But even then, what good does that do? I mean, we're all going to die eventually, so what's the point in doing anything? The existing status quo will persist, the planet will survive (at least until the Sun goes supernova or whatnot), so it doesn't really matter what we do. Can't change that, so why bother even discussing things, let alone actually trying to do them.

 

Cynicism is fine and understandable, but if all you're going to do is moan and whine at us for wanting to talk about it, then yes, the status quo will remain. On the other hand, you could try being constructive - what do you think we can do to make a league happen? Are you like some (BringBackTheBlizzard I believe is one, though I could be wrong) who think we need to latch onto the US like a remora to a shark because that's the only way things will ever work? If so, should we be going with the troubled NASL or the low level USL? Or do you think 3 MLS teams is enough and will eventually improve our national player pool enough to make a world cup? Is there some alternative to continued dependence on a country that doesn't give a shit about anything other than our money?
Or should we just abandon all hope, then moan and whine at the next generation of fans who comes along to talk about a potential Canadian league?

[Dub Narcotic]

What did Montagliani actually say? They are 'working towards' a 'Phase 1' launch in 'the next five years' with '2018 hopefully a start date'. When clubs start hiring people and publicly looking for stadiums is when the league is actually happening.

When Whitecaps 2 launched ( a great history by Ben Massey here: https://www.maple-leaf-forever.com/2014/09/17/dissecting-the-whitecaps-new-westminster-failure/), they were planing for a 2015 launch in mid-to-late 2013, and making their intentions public early 2014, a year before the team was to start. That was considered a very rushed timeline, and that was for an extension of a wealthy existing pro team into an existing pro league and with another stadium in place as a backup plan. 

Meanwhile, a large plurality of of the players that are allegedly not being given chances in our current league setup have been playing in USL for the last two years but judging by the lack of activity on the USL threads on this message board, even the hardest core Canadian soccer fans can barely give two shits about watching them. 

[johnyb]

West

Edmonton

Calgary

Winnipeg

Regina

East

Toronto (I)

Ottawa

Hamilton

Montreal (I)

 

I have my doubts about Regina but I don't see a team in Vancouver to start and travel costs to Moncton eliminates them. These 8 give a true East/West conference table and would cut down on Travel costs significantly.

[dyslexic nam]

Based on the 8 cities I would like, I vote for:

• Victoria
• Calgary
• Edmonton
• Somewhere in the GTA (I will go with majority consensus since locals will know the area better)
• Ottawa
• Quebec City
• Moncton
• Halifax

That is two teams for the Maritimes (cuz fuck all y'all who think Ontario is Eastern Canada), one for the GTA (with continued MLS presence), no CPL teams for the other 2 MLS markets, and a few others based on markets I think could support a local team.

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Based on the 8 cities I would like, I vote for:

• Victoria
• Calgary
• Edmonton
• Somewhere in the GTA (I will go with majority consensus since locals will know the area better)
• Ottawa
• Quebec City
• Moncton
• Halifax

That is two teams for the Maritimes (cuz fuck all y'all who think Ontario is Eastern Canada), one for the GTA (with continued MLS presence), no CPL teams for the other 2 MLS markets, and a few others based on markets I think could support a local team.

Hamilton is almost guaranteed to start with a team. Does Halifax has a soccer stadium comparable to Moncton`s?

[Kent]

My 2 cents. I am skeptical that the league will actually start in 2018, but I don't doubt that the wheels are very much in motion. If I had to put my house on it, I would say we will see the CPL in the not terribly distant future, but sure it will probably fail. The important thing for me is that they are trying and I think it's important that we as fans try to support it the best we can if/when it arrives.

People can make arguments that we haven't created a successful league yet, so why would anything change now. Sure, that's the way I thought before MLS started. I assumed it would probably fail (at least once I saw that it was impossible to watch games in Canada, meaning no major networks were showing games). I also assumed a team in Toronto would fail when it joined MLS. But, 10 years later it's still around and getting bigger crowds than ever. Montreal and Vancouver have joined in the fun as well.

With the notable exception of 3 markets being committed to a different league, Canada has never been more likely to be able to support a pro soccer league. Sure, it'll probably fail, but I'm going to have a heck of a fun time trying to help it succeed.

Thanks for the few people that are still putting votes in to try to keep this thread on topic.

[dyslexic nam]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Hamilton is almost guaranteed to start with a team. Does Halifax has a soccer stadium comparable to Moncton`s?

I will be honest - I have no idea.  But it has a population that could support a local team, so I imagine stadium needs could be met by renovating existing infrastructure.  Dal and the Huskies have pretty solid sporting infrastructure, so I suspect their stadiums would be candidates

 

Part of it is just a reflection that many of the numbers in this poll can be attributed to a bit of homer bias.  Swift Current has a population of 15,000 yet gets a vote.  If they get a mention, I have no issues suggesting both just to get the Maritime profile raised.  I would be pretty fundamentally disappointed if all of Atlantic Canada was ignored in the formation of a "Canadian Premier League"   

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I will be honest - I have no idea.  But it has a population that could support a local team, so I imagine stadium needs could be met by renovating existing infrastructure.  Dal and the Huskies have pretty solid sporting infrastructure, so I suspect their stadiums would be candidates

 

Part of it is just a reflection that many of the numbers in this poll can be attributed to a bit of homer bias.  Swift Current has a population of 15,000 yet gets a vote.  If they get a mention, I have no issues suggesting both just to get the Maritime profile raised.  I would be pretty fundamentally disappointed if all of Atlantic Canada was ignored in the formation of a "Canadian Premier League"   

I have no doubt Halifax will get a team. The issue at hands is launching teams that have adequate stadiums ready at launch. That`s why most people puts Moncton ahead of Halifax. No doubt Halifax will get an expansion team.

[rob.notenboom]

4 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Part of it is just a reflection that many of the numbers in this poll can be attributed to a bit of homer bias.  Swift Current has a population of 15,000 yet gets a vote.  If they get a mention, I have no issues suggesting both just to get the Maritime profile raised.  I would be pretty fundamentally disappointed if all of Atlantic Canada was ignored in the formation of a "Canadian Premier League"   

I'm pretty sure the suggestion of Swift Current was not an endorsement of the likelihood of it being able to support a team but for the purpose of making a different point.

 

However, if they get a team clearly they must be called the Speedy Creek Creek Speeders.

[Kent]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I have no doubt Halifax will get a team. The issue at hands is launching teams that have adequate stadiums ready at launch. That`s why most people puts Moncton ahead of Halifax. No doubt Halifax will get an expansion team.

Cut him some slack. I am pretty sure his votes are literally the closest to yours out of anyone else on the thread. The only difference is that you voted for Hamilton, he voted for Halifax. Everything else is identical.

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, Kent said:

Cut him some slack. I am pretty sure his votes are literally the closest to yours out of anyone else on the thread. The only difference is that you voted for Hamilton, he voted for Halifax. Everything else is identical.

having a bad day?

[dyslexic nam]

Certainly no bad vibes interpreted (or intended) here.

[Kent]

14 minutes ago, Ansem said:

having a bad day?

No, sorry if that sounded pissy. Wasn't meant to come across that way. I just thought it was a bit odd that you picked his votes rather than others considering how close you are to agreeing.

[Ansem]

Just now, Kent said:

No, sorry if that sounded pissy. Wasn't meant to come across that way. I just thought it was a bit odd that you picked his votes rather than others considering how close you are to agreeing.

it's all good man. Didn't meant to come across like that. Wasn't my intention

[dyslexic nam]

That ended suspiciously well for the interwebs...

 

[ted]

^ I attribute that the calming influence of the members of the Royal family currently touring the West Coast.

Dammit! I just realized I should have gone down and tried to get Prince William's thoughts on a team in Victoria vs Vancouver!

[Gopherbashi]

1 hour ago, rob.notenboom said:

I'm pretty sure the suggestion of Swift Current was not an endorsement of the likelihood of it being able to support a team but for the purpose of making a different point.

 

However, if they get a team clearly they must be called the Speedy Creek Creek Speeders.

I can't wait for the Speedy Creek Creek Speeders - Happy Valley-Goose Bay Happy Geese Derby.

[Gopherbashi]

45 minutes ago, ted said:

Dammit! I just realized I should have gone down and tried to get Prince William's thoughts on a team in Victoria vs Vancouver!

"Prince George, did you know there's a citytown that has the same name as you?  How do you feel about pro soccer?"  

[Unnamed Trialist]

I don't know how many of you have spent time with well-off CEOs and high level politicians. My experience is mostly in Spain, where they are accessible, for one, and, in general, discreet. They know perfectly well keeping secrets is important, sometimes they are incredibly opaque. Officially. So I admit this is possible but not what actually happens, because we are talking about major projects with tons of stakeholders including urban neighbourhoods, not related to their core business, part of their recreational use of assets, something they perceive as fun and are excited about. Not something to be quiet about.

With so many stakeholders and participants, someone has to leak. In fact someone, always, has an interest in leaking. And if not the CEO, with his friends and family (for sure they all get told, owning a soccer team is not like building a new parts warehouse or galvinizing plant), lawyers, accountants, those doing off the record feasibility studies, architects, soccer types in the community, local and provincial politicians (on stadiums, on access to them, on parking around them, on that freeway exit needed, any public works as those things take years to put together). And someone always, amongst all those people, is going to talk. 

You are saying that this simply has not happened, except in one case.

If anyone thinks in the Canadian soccer network a rumour out of Hamilton being the only remotely apparently substantiated story is solid ground for a league, I think this is deluded. In any case, if they are operating this way, it is bad business, and I'll tell you why.

First, it is not the normal modus operandi. Just look at any city interested in an MLS franchise. They keep things totally secret and nothing comes out. No, just joking. Because it is never that way. They blab, they get together with a bunch of deep pocket buddies, and they throw a press conference and brag like shit. They do this to mark out the territory, establish their case, scare off any local rivals; they do what you guys are doing on the other thread, they have a logo designed. A stadium model or rendering appears. Names of possible GMs come out, they get local soccer heroes in line. It is all out in the open, hugely. Why keep anything secret? Openness is the way to make the project happen, not secrecy. Secrecy is a euphemism for smoke.

Secondly, this total openness is also good, because it creates a competitive environment and drives positive hype. You are fighting to get a franchise, and you want the momentum to build, if you are the CSA promoting this, you want all the stuff to get out and have this huge brag-fest, and bidding war, and get those left out jealous and upping the offers, and some mayor in Moncton or Kelowna getting an idea, because it is all out there. It cannot be done as a private men's club deal, hidden, secretive, with owners being agreed upon with a governing body in private (which would be unethical and essentially a form of monopolistic favouritism, a trust, and so likely illegal). You cannot have a secret Masonic or illuminati trust coming up with an 8 or 6 or 4 team league that gets to play in a public stadium, and one day, have a press conference, and for the first time ever discover there is this amazing huge thing happening (Jesus had kids and all that, such a dumb book that was), and until that moment nobody knew absolutely anything about it.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Part of it is just a reflection that many of the numbers in this poll can be attributed to a bit of homer bias.  Swift Current has a population of 15,000 yet gets a vote. 

You are aware that the oldest professional football team in the world was started in a city that was the 18th largest in England in 1861, the year before? Just to clarify. 

Currently all the big four leagues have or have recently teams that are not even in cities ranked in the top 50 in their countries by population? And some are currently playing European competitions, like Sassuolo and Villareal.

Eight of the top 20 metropolitan areas in the US do not have an MLS team, though a few will soon.

Swift Current, okay, it's a stretch. But looking at demographics and making a list is in fact a highly inaccurate way of dealing with this question.

Edit: I have been to all the cities mentioned in this thread, including, as we've been beautifully reminded, Speedy Creek.

I haven't been to Saskatoon, it probably deserves better.

[Viruk42]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You are aware that the oldest professional football team in the world was started in a city that was the 18th largest in England in 1861, the year before? Just to clarify. 

Currently all the big four leagues have or have recently teams that are not even in cities ranked in the top 50 in their countries by population? And some are currently playing European competitions, like Sassuolo and Villareal.

Eight of the top 20 metropolitan areas in the US do not have an MLS team, though a few will soon.

Swift Current, okay, it's a stretch. But looking at demographics and making a list is in fact a highly inaccurate way of dealing with this question.

Edit: I have been to all the cities mentioned in this thread, including, as we've been beautifully reminded, Speedy Creek.

I haven't been to Saskatoon, it probably deserves better.

So on the one hand, "a Canadian soccer league will never happen, so stop talking about it", and on the other "Swift Current can have soccer because a small city in a different country got a team over 150 years ago"? Which is it? Are we supposed to give up and drown our sorrows or actively fight for Swift Current FC?

Again: when will you contribute something constructive? Since you claim to know so much, why don't you give us suggestions as to what we can do to get this thing off the ground? 

[C2SKI]

If Victoria Highlanders were approached I assume we would've heard by now. That club is still largely supporter owned, is it not? I imagine voting members would have been made aware of the situation.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Viruk42 said:

So on the one hand, "a Canadian soccer league will never happen, so stop talking about it", and on the other "Swift Current can have soccer because a small city in a different country got a team over 150 years ago"? Which is it? Are we supposed to give up and drown our sorrows or actively fight for Swift Current FC?

Again: when will you contribute something constructive? Since you claim to know so much, why don't you give us suggestions as to what we can do to get this thing off the ground? 

Please list your recent most constructive posts and we can have a conversation. On this or any thread.

Thanks

[Complete Homer]

6 hours ago, C2SKI said:

If Victoria Highlanders were approached I assume we would've heard by now. That club is still largely supporter owned, is it not? I imagine voting members would have been made aware of the situation.

I doubt the Highlanders would be the team to move up, unless you're talking about someone buying the team to use for CPL. 

But it's a good point, same reason why I doubt a Roughrider team is in the works 

[rob.notenboom]

Important cultural factoid*: People from Swift Current generally don't call it Speedy Creek. Only people from away do. 

*not important