Vote: CPL cities needed to succeed

[TRM]

2 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

Glass half empty eh?

Half? I drank it all and went back for seconds, thirds, fourths 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

55 minutes ago, TRM said:

Half? I drank it all and went back for seconds, thirds, fourths 

Basically how I feel on this forum overall:

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Viruk42 said:

No one is forcing you to read this stuff, nor is anyone then forcing you to comment. 

No one is forcing you to read what I have to say, or comment either. But if you come on, handle it. Grow up.

I find it hard to believe that it has never occured to some of you that an internet forum is actually a place for free opinions and discussion, and not only the endogamic circle jerks between like-minded you seem to be hangering for. Go do that elsewhere.

A Canadian league, it has been spoken about before, so get your heads out of the sand. On this board there are veritable experts on the topic, who most of you directly disrespect, with no idea you have expert knowledge on the subject posting here (not talking about me, just to be clear). The dream has consistently and shamelessly failed over and over again, it is a scandalous topic of failure in Canadian and in fact world soccer, as we are the only major country in the universe without a national league.

The fact  you are not at all cynical about this suggests you are hopelessly naive and, what is worse, deliberately so. So fix your broken paradigm, and stop parading on the shit fest.

[Complete Homer]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Reading this thread makes me think that this league is not going to happen. Very sorry to say it, but every time you look at a list you see problems.

And there is no feeling of a group of committed investors getting on the same page to overcome them, which is what you need most. 

So it is not going to happen, close the threads. 

(If you want the league, I think you have to go for the passionate markets with very committed owners, no matter what the demographics are. Those eight, whoever they are, are the ones you go with. They form a little, tightly knit group of mavericks who hold off the BS from Saputo and MLSE and Kerfoot and co, and from the provincial SA, and from the wisecrack Toronto press, and from MLS and NASL. I doubt that scenario is in any way feasible. You probably need to have an unbalanced schedule, east-west, to reduce travel costs. You can't build new stadiums and can't spend a lot to upgrade, so that rules out a ton of places. You have to accept way less spectators at first, at least filling smaller venues, rather than more than half-empty stadiums. You have to have strict salary caps, but still have players fans are willing to pay to see (mostly the way the league is branded, like with CFL).

Curious as to why you say there is no interest from comitted investors. The only news we've really gotten in the past month is that there are big investors. You may or may not out stock in the sources (Rollins, Totera, people in the threads that have a little inside information, TSN/SN interviews with Vic Montagliani), but pretty much the only information we've gotten has been about "deep pocketed" investors. Even Montagliani said in his last interview that there are groups lined up but confidentiality agreements and mutual respect will keep them from making announcements at the moment. Granted, I know some people think Montagliani is smoke and mirrors, but I am taking what he says at face value so far, he hasn't given a good reason to do otherwise 

[Unnamed Trialist]

I'll answer the topic question, to break this ridiculous geography lesson with no awareness at all of soccer.

If a league were to include franchises in Nanaimo, Medicine Hat, Brandon, Swift Current, Sudbury, Guelph, Sherbrooke and Kingston, and worked, with at least 2000 public per city and with players getting paid enough to not have to do something else, then those would be the "cities needed to succeed". 

This is somewhat unlikely, but no more unlikely than any of the demograph lists being bandied about here. If you don't understand that, you don't understand what the whole subject is about.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

3 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Curious as to why you say there is no interest from comitted investors. The only news we've really gotten in the past month is that there are big investors. You may or may not out stock in the sources (Rollins, Totera, people in the threads that have a little inside information, TSN/SN interviews with Vic Montagliani), but pretty much the only information we've gotten has been about "deep pocketed" investors. Even Montagliani said in his last interview that there are groups lined up but confidentiality agreements and mutual respect will keep them from making announcements at the moment. Granted, I know some people think Montagliani is smoke and mirrors, but I am taking what he says at face value so far, he hasn't given a good reason to do otherwise 

and lo, a voice of reason emerges

[Viruk42]

10 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

No one is forcing you to read what I have to say, or comment either. But if you come on, handle it. Grow up.

I find it hard to believe that it has never occured to some of you that an internet forum is actually a place for free opinions and discussion, and not only the endogamic circle jerks between like-minded you seem to be hangering for. Go do that elsewhere.

A Canadian league, it has been spoken about before, so get your heads out of the sand. On this board there are veritable experts on the topic, who most of you directly disrespect, with no idea you have expert knowledge on the subject posting here (not talking about me, just to be clear). The dream has consistently and shamelessly failed over and over again, it is a scandalous topic of failure in Canadian and in fact world soccer, as we are the only major country in the universe without a national league.

The fact  you are not at all cynical about this suggests you are hopelessly naive and, what is worse, deliberately so. So fix your broken paradigm, and stop parading on the shit fest.

No, see, I am a cynic - like I said, I don't think it's a good idea to have kids because I think the world is too fucked up with no hope in sight. I don't expect success from a Canadian league. 

However, I also don't see the point in arguing for failure. It adds nothing to the conversation (in case it's not clear, that's me pointing out that you are adding nothing to the conversation), it simply drags everyone down and makes them feel like shit (yes, you again - you sound like a wonderful person! ... cough). What benefit does that have for anyone?

I'm well aware that the internet is generally an open place where people can, and do, say whatever they want. I also think that people who read and comment on things they don't like are either masochists or trolls, simply there to inflict themselves on someone. Because why else do it? Again, what benefit do you get from reading this stuff that makes you angry, and what benefit do you get from inflicting your anger on those of us who are enjoying this discussion? Other than, you know, the chance to be a prick, either to us or to yourself.

You seem to think you know what I want from this discussion, and yet you clearly don't. I don't want everyone agreeing, I want people thinking critically about the idea of a Canadian soccer league. I want people to have ideas and have other people challenge those ideas in a constructive way. I want to have an intellectually honest discussion where we debate the merits of various suggestions, drawing bits and pieces of others' ideas in order to construct a new one. And above all, because we all recognize that we have literally no power to make the decisions, I want people to enjoy it. Because what's the fucking point in life if we're all miserable bastards like you?

[Complete Homer]

26 minutes ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

and lo, a voice of reason emerges

See, there seems to be a few types of people who end up commenting in these threads.

1. People who have been paying attention since the beginning of the rumours, have taken stock of all of the information, and often have an inside source or two. They are confident that this is happening, but pumping the brakes on expectations that exceed a 6-8 team launch beyond USL/lowend NASL quality.

2. People who are staunchly committed to pro/rel 40 team pyramids and would prefer to see the league fail than to attempt anything different.

3. People who haven't paid much attention and prefer to get in some cheap shots based off of a cursory understanding of the situation. aka "there is a feeling there is no committed ownership groups." (No offence Unnamed Trialist, I respect your opinion on a lot of player evaluation and think you have been a voice of reason on the Floro discussion, but those were some pretty aggressive comments from someone who doesn't seem up to date on anything regarding CPL).

4. People who have been hurt so many times by Canadian soccer that have come to believe we are incapable of being anything more than what we are today.

5. GuillermoDelQuarto, who just wants everyone to get along while he draws

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

3 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

4. People who have been hurt so many times by Canadian soccer that have come to believe we are incapable of being anything more than what we are today.

5. GuillermoDelQuarto, who just wants everyone to get along while he draws

But honestly, in response to 4(and everyone who feels this way), I get it, and part of me feels the same way.  You grow up as a kid having everyone just assume when you watch soccer you're watching europe, having your non-soccer friends change the channel and groan when you put it on, having fat oafs who you would run circles around say soccer's a pussy sport, when in reality you would crush their fucking leg with a slide tackle if they ever dared to invade your pitch, it's hard not to let the doom and gloom sink in.  And I think someone else earlier in the thread was mentioning something about it being the case where with so much crap going on in the world you simply feel the need to be optimistic about life in general so as not to give in to the despair.

If I can't be optimistic about Canada one day having a soccer league, how can I be optimistic that the world is going to deal with the clusterfuck that is the Middle East, or the looming threat of mass migration and geopolitical strife caused by climate change?  I can't.  And I simply can't go through another year feeling like we're sinking on the titanic again.  FFS it nearly killed me last time.  So, when there is reasonable evidence where we don't know which direction things will go and we can't be realists, we literally have to choose between pessimism and optimism(but not just sitting on optimism, acting on it), I choose optimism.  Not blind optimism, but cautious, diligent optimism.

Fuck me right?

[Unnamed Trialist]

We are the only country in the UN without a league, with the exception of a few island with less people than the cast in Lost.

It has been this way for most of the history of the game, being generous. 

Think about it, ask yourself about it, and then try to be honest, just for once: is that a basis for optimism or pessimism?

I think you guys are not at all optimistic, you are deluded. The most probably scenario is the persistence of the existing status quo, because the existing status quo has the cards stacked in favour of a mere affirmation of what is and a full snubbing of what could be. The powers preferring this situation of non-action are the current major actors in Canadian soccer, along with general indifference, political ignorance, and glaring lack of business acumen.

Utopia can have the same illusory effects as  ideology, serving the perpetuation of any existing power structure and blinding the masses. Utopia without a clear analysis of reality, without a way to get there, is just a song in the wind, it is equivalent to a social lie. I am actually quoting someone  else now, but hey, seems to be pretty well constructed the idea, especially for this whole CPL business.

 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Go outside man.  It's a big beautiful world out there

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

I'm sure there were people living behind the Iron curtain arguing that things would never change before the Berlin Wall fell as well.  Sometimes things don't change, and sometimes they do.  

[Complete Homer]

4 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

We are the only country in the UN without a league, with the exception of a few island with less people than the cast in Lost.

It has been this way for most of the history of the game, being generous. 

Think about it, ask yourself about it, and then try to be honest, just for once: is that a basis for optimism or pessimism?

I think you guys are not at all optimistic, you are deluded. The most probably scenario is the persistence of the existing status quo, because the existing status quo has the cards stacked in favour of a mere affirmation of what is and a full snubbing of what could be. The powers preferring this situation of non-action are the current major actors in Canadian soccer, along with general indifference, political ignorance, and glaring lack of business acumen.

The current major actors are in favour of the status quo? Does the CSA or Victor Montagliani not count as a major player? Does a self-made billionaire not have business acumen?  What about organizations that have run NHL teams for decades? 

Why exactly would Montagliani get up in front of a microphone on national radio, twice in the last month, and talk about ownership groups lined up? Why would he say they are on track for a 2018 launch if it was smoke and mirrors? Why would several journalists practically torpedo their credibility by reporting false information? Why would a TiCat rep look me in the eye and say, "I'm not allowed to share much, but this is happening"?

To me it is far more deluded to assume that this is a non-existent fantasy.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

35 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

The current major actors are in favour of the status quo? Does the CSA or Victor Montagliani not count as a major player? Does a self-made billionaire not have business acumen?  What about organizations that have run NHL teams for decades? 

Why exactly would Montagliani get up in front of a microphone on national radio, twice in the last month, and talk about ownership groups lined up? Why would he say they are on track for a 2018 launch if it was smoke and mirrors? Why would several journalists practically torpedo their credibility by reporting false information? Why would a TiCat rep look me in the eye and say, "I'm not allowed to share much, but this is happening"?

To me it is far more deluded to assume that this is a non-existent fantasy.

THE IRON CURTAIN IS COMING DOWN MOTHERFUCKERS  TOSS LOGIC AND REASON OUT THE WINDOW 

hehe.  Got ideas for the territorial capitals, not that they'll ever have teams, but I think you guys are gonna like em.

[longlugan]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'm just suggesting that you should not be trying to pass of your shit-fest as a parade.

The only shit-fest around here happened in your breakfast cereal this morning...stop being a whiny bitch. When/If the CPL does happen are you not going to support it because you missed the parade?

[Bison44]

I think we are all still waiting for the promised, I am accomplished and I am as good looking as Brad Pitt thread to start.  You think the CPL thread has had some debate, wait till this one starts.  I wonder what Angelina will like more the boundless arrogance or the condesending attitude?  

[Gopherbashi]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

We are the only country in the UN without a league, with the exception of a few island with less people than the cast in Lost.

It has been this way for most of the history of the game, being generous. 

Think about it, ask yourself about it, and then try to be honest, just for once: is that a basis for optimism or pessimism?

No, it's a basis for change.

I'm honestly not sure of your angle on this.  You seem to bemoan the fact that we don't have a league, but then look down on the people who are wanting to change that.  I'm not quite sure what you want in the situation, since the status quo "situation of non-action" also seems unpalatable to you.

[Kent]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If a league were to include franchises in Nanaimo, Medicine Hat, Brandon, Swift Current, Sudbury, Guelph, Sherbrooke and Kingston, and worked, with at least 2000 public per city and with players getting paid enough to not have to do something else, then those would be the "cities needed to succeed". 

You couldn't even include KW in there to be their first vote from the original list? Sigh. Looks like WellToldTales is going to have to show up if they are ever to get a vote.

Anyways, thanks for at least picking exactly 8 cities/towns.

[TRM]

8 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

See, there seems to be a few types of people who end up commenting in these threads.

5. GuillermoDelQuarto, who just wants everyone to get along while he draws

And damn fine compgen graphics it is. PS. GuillermoDelQuart needs his own thread as I've enjoyed his graphics more than any other stuff in this whole subject!

0. Those who've been around Canadian soccer for 40+ years and while they hope for the best can't shake that "Sir John Templeton" moment of "This Time It's Different" being the 4 most expensive words you will ever hear or say.

[marauder01]

Cities to make the CanPL work:

Hamilton, and a Toronto team to beat all season long

 

#RealTalk:

UT, you gotta put down the Hatorade man, its full of disrespectrolytes.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

2 hours ago, TRM said:

And damn fine compgen graphics it is. PS. GuillermoDelQuart needs his own thread as I've enjoyed his graphics more than any other stuff in this whole subject!

0. Those who've been around Canadian soccer for 40+ years and while they hope for the best can't shake that "Sir John Templeton" moment of "This Time It's Different" being the 4 most expensive words you will ever hear or say.

Haha I have my own thread!  Man, thanks for the kind words everyone, it's easy to let people get you down.  I told him to go outside when really that was what I had to do.

But honestly, I know I'm not a pro, and in the relatively unlikely event that any of my concepts get used, i'm sure they'll be handed to a pro to be tidied up.  What I'm more interested in is seeing what the community as a whole thinks is cool, not being an absolute perfectionist.  And honestly lol how does someone make the jump to saying that I disrespect graphic designers by doing this.  That's pretty bas-ackwards, really, if anything I think what they do is somewhat sacred and beautiful, hence why I decided to start doing it in the first place.

And, if I may toot my own horn slightly, I've actually receive a few modest offers to do some design for money, based on the thread.  So I can't be that horrible lol

Anyways, to the beauties out there(especially the BSB) it's been a slice getting to know you all, I really do hope to do a cross country tour at some point and have a pint with as many of you as I can, and If you're ever up in Whitehorse, don't fuck around and drop me a line.

[Copes]

I just don't understand the pessimism when there is so much news and talk about the CPL happening. I mean... why would these journalists with sources and important figures like Montagliani be lying? Just for shits and giggles?

Someone has gotten cranky in their old age.

The rest of us should just carry on though. I've enjoyed this thread. When do we start voting on the first 4 expansion cities? 

[Unnamed Trialist]

So when is the official press conference announced, and how come nothing has been leaked?

Are journalists only citing promises, or have they discovered their own sources?

Why is there more capacity for secrecy here than with most programs at the NSA or the Israeli nuclear program?

Do you really believe 8 ownership groups, or even three, with whole teams negotiating, would have done anything of any substance without anything seeping out at all?

Have you properly separated Vic's need for credibility after our WC qualifying failure and his tenure as CSA president?

Sorry, but it is not credible, not even the announcements are credible, not even the promises, not even just as hype are they remotely credible. 

My opinion, assessing the data, is that this is a long way from being anywhere near a project with its own timeline.

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So when is the official press conference announced, and how come nothing has been leaked?

Are journalists only citing promises, or have they discovered their own sources?

Why is there more capacity for secrecy here than with most programs at the NSA or the Israeli nuclear program?

Do you really believe 8 ownership groups, or even three, with whole teams negotiating, would have done anything of any substance without anything seeping out at all?

Have you properly separated Vic's need for credibility after our WC qualifying failure and his tenure as CSA president?

Sorry, but it is not credible, not even the announcements are credible, not even the promises, not even just as hype are they remotely credible. 

My opinion, assessing the data, is that this is a long way from being anywhere near a project with its own timeline.

There have been leaks, you just refuse to acknowledge them as such. There have been face to face and media acknowledgements from the TiCats, nearly direct confirmation at a fan event for the Fury, the Rollins leak (Winnipeg, Calgary), etc. Those are 4 specific ownership leaks, half the league, and it doesn't touch the additional information shared with some members of this board who have been asked not to disclose for the time being. 

Frankly, if you think the CSA announcing the target date and Montagliani going on TSN and Sportsnet to discuss the league are non credible sources because of a conspiracy theory that Montagliani is trying to retain credibility (after no longer even needing the CSA after election to a higher office that already ensures his career trajectory will be way higher than anyone in the CSA), then you are approaching Futballer level of delusion. 

Edit: Misread your user name, thought you were BringBackTheBlizzard, which prompted more exasperation in my answer than was warranted. The point still stands that there have been plenty of leaks and that the idea that Montagliani is lying requires a metric tonne of tinfoil 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

...or he has been following Canadian soccer a lot longer than you have and is familar with the usual MO of CSA presidents on issues like this.