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Vote: CPL cities needed to succeed


Kent

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15 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

Quick note on new leagues- The A-League started off as an 8 team league, expanded to 11 and went back down to 10 fairly stable teams again.  A league under 10 can be successful.

 

 

Australia's population was about 20 million when A-League started. We will probably be around 37 million in 2018. Nearly double.

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Australia has New Zealand as well.  Their combined population is 29 million to our 35; it's fairly comparable.  They have 10 professional soccer clubs for that 29 million people and 4/10 of those are in Sydney and Melbourne and they don't have to share teams with other foreign leagues.

If we run an 9 team CanPL plus give our 3 best markets & teams to MLS it's really comparable.

The Australian A-League is the best comparison to what we want to build here I think in that it's a new league in a similar sized country.  If anything it's the best case scenario considering we have MLS.

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Can I just say, I stand by my earlier assertion that the league would be best with 3 clusters. West, Ontario, and East. Travel costs get reduced by playing more games within the cluster (I want to highlight calling it a cluster, not a division, because it would simply be for scheduling, not rankings, playoffs, etc). Assuming we'll have playoffs (because that's what we're used to in Canada), the top 4 teams could play home-home semi-finals, followed by a pre-determined neutral venue final. 

3-5 teams in each cluster for 9, 12, or 15 total.
West could eventually be Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Regina or Saskatoon, Winnipeg.
Ontario, start with Hamilton, a GTA team, and Ottawa, add two of Windsor, London, Kingston kind of thing. 
East would involve a second Montreal team, Quebec City, Moncton, Halifax, and St. John's. 

I know it's weird, but it's an easy way to reduce travel costs, which are often cited as one of the biggest impediments to a league here, or even just the continued existence of FC Edmonton. Furthermore it prioritizes likely rivalries - as an Ottawa native, I honestly don't care about seeing the Fury play FC Edmonton anymore than I care about Rayo OKC. But I'd love to see us beat a GTA team or Kingston 4 times a year ;). So you have 1 home-home against every team, but extra games in-cluster.

More/stronger rivalries get more fans, the reduced distances get more away fans, and money is saved on travel.

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7 hours ago, Viruk42 said:

Can I just say, I stand by my earlier assertion that the league would be best with 3 clusters. West, Ontario, and East.

I know it's weird,

Not weird at all. In fact it's called the Easton report. A regional D3 setup with playoffs for national champion.

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2 hours ago, TRM said:

Not weird at all. In fact it's called the Easton report. A regional D3 setup with playoffs for national champion.

I'd wondered what the name of that report Richard Whittall had worked on was. Didn't realize it took that route, though I'm vaguely suggesting it for a D1 setup, not D3. 

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Reading this thread makes me think that this league is not going to happen. Very sorry to say it, but every time you look at a list you see problems.

And there is no feeling of a group of committed investors getting on the same page to overcome them, which is what you need most. 

So it is not going to happen, close the threads. 

(If you want the league, I think you have to go for the passionate markets with very committed owners, no matter what the demographics are. Those eight, whoever they are, are the ones you go with. They form a little, tightly knit group of mavericks who hold off the BS from Saputo and MLSE and Kerfoot and co, and from the provincial SA, and from the wisecrack Toronto press, and from MLS and NASL. I doubt that scenario is in any way feasible. You probably need to have an unbalanced schedule, east-west, to reduce travel costs. You can't build new stadiums and can't spend a lot to upgrade, so that rules out a ton of places. You have to accept way less spectators at first, at least filling smaller venues, rather than more than half-empty stadiums. You have to have strict salary caps, but still have players fans are willing to pay to see (mostly the way the league is branded, like with CFL).

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45 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Reading this thread makes me think that this league is not going to happen. Very sorry to say it, but every time you look at a list you see problems.

And there is no feeling of a group of committed investors getting on the same page to overcome them, which is what you need most. 

So it is not going to happen, close the threads. 

(If you want the league, I think you have to go for the passionate markets with very committed owners, no matter what the demographics are. Those eight, whoever they are, are the ones you go with. They form a little, tightly knit group of mavericks who hold off the BS from Saputo and MLSE and Kerfoot and co, and from the provincial SA, and from the wisecrack Toronto press, and from MLS and NASL. I doubt that scenario is in any way feasible. You probably need to have an unbalanced schedule, east-west, to reduce travel costs. You can't build new stadiums and can't spend a lot to upgrade, so that rules out a ton of places. You have to accept way less spectators at first, at least filling smaller venues, rather than more than half-empty stadiums. You have to have strict salary caps, but still have players fans are willing to pay to see (mostly the way the league is branded, like with CFL).

Glass half empty eh?

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1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Not only does the glass not exist, but there is no sand available to make the glass, and no fuel to provide the heat if there were sand. 

You can't argue about half-full glasses when you are still drinking rainwater out of a gourd.

lol, a gourd is kinda like a glass... I mean it's definitely not exactly a glass, but if it's holding water it's not exactly not a glass either :P

Time will tell.

And isn't it to some extent on us?  If fan's start getting up off their asses and doing shit, making it cool, you'd be amazed at how quickly capital will follow it.  The cool thing about this CPL thing is that we the fans have the opportunity to help create the culture of it.  And we can do that even before a ball is kicked.

Seriously though, I've got some stuff in the works and anyone who wants to start planting seeds now should PM me.  Sometimes all it takes is a single grain of rice to tip the scale(and yes that's a Mulan quote)

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1 minute ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

lol, a gourd is kinda like a glass... I mean it's definitely not exactly a glass, but if it's holding water it's not exactly not a glass either :P

Time will tell.

And isn't it to some extent on us?  If fan's start getting up off their asses and doing shit, making it cool, you'd be amazed at how quickly capital will follow it.  The cool thing about this CPL thing is that we the fans have the opportunity to help create the culture of it.  And we can do that even before a ball is kicked.

Seriously though, I've got some stuff in the works and anyone who wants to start planting seeds now should PM me.  Sometimes all it takes is a single grain of rice to tip the scale(and yes that's a Mulan quote)

Point is, Canadian businessmen do a poor job putting back their wealth into the country, we are way behind the US on this. We dont see them giving back in culture either, they take, even government contracts that are totally lucrative, and sit there with their anti-civic BS. I am speaking comparatively, but things are poor in Canada, I can tell stories about guys with massive defence contracts sending their personal wealth back into US university they studied at before they give back to their very own neighbourhoods in Canada.

Only way to get that to change is by a long process of educating Canadian wealth to not be so frigging philistine and dumb-ass.

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3 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Point is, Canadian businessmen do a poor job putting back their wealth into the country, we are way behind the US on this. We dont see them giving back in culture either, they take, even government contracts that are totally lucrative, and sit there with their anti-civic BS. I am speaking comparatively, but things are poor in Canada, I can tell stories about guys with massive defence contracts sending their personal wealth back into US university they studied at before they give back to their very own neighbourhoods in Canada.

Only way to get that to change is by a long process of educating Canadian wealth to not be so frigging philistine and dumb-ass.

Hey I don't really know enough to argue with you there, and If I had to guess based on my complete lack of knowledge I'd say you are probably at least partially right.  Maybe we haven't given them anything cool enough to want to invest in?  hehe I dunno just talking out my ass now.  Seriously though, I have access to a laser cutter and i'm gonna start making a bunch of little CPL tokens that people can leave around town if they are so inclined to start planting seeds.  anyone willing to help should contact me

this is not a joke lol and I would appreciate all the help I could get

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Just now, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

Hey I don't really know enough to argue with you there, and If I had to guess based on my complete lack of knowledge I'd say you are probably at least partially right.  Maybe we haven't given them anything cool enough to want to invest in?  hehe I dunno just talking out my ass now.  Seriously though, I have access to a laser cutter and i'm gonna start making a bunch of little CPL tokens that people can leave around town if they are so inclined to start planting seeds.  anyone willing to help should contact me

this is not a joke lol and I would appreciate all the help I could get

There is no question that if fans in Regina or Hamilton really want to see pro soccer, they should ask for it. Odd that such a clear market dynamic is not made operative, like when you have nowhere to take your kids to play nearby you ask for that empty lot to be made into a park. Somehow there is too much passivity, monied guys just perceive in blurry fashion, since this stuff is usually not their area of knowledge, but really do not know. You might like to have a franchise but hey, have you really perceived a solid base in your community calling for the product?

So yes, I think you can work to create a positive dynamic, and more, like petitioning, like getting local clubs to sign in favour, to find some well-known player to speak out, even write to politicians who have egos that can be manipulated in many ways (leaving legacies). 

Just my personal opinion, but this whole business of coming up with logos for the CPL is incredibly immature, I realize this is a silly fan forum, but that stuff is totally aimless. Not to mention not one of the guys pitching in has any real training, knowledge or even respect for the profession that creates quality logos for brands.

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Obviously I should not even be anywhere near these threads, they piss me off to no end and I am not going to say anything positive about them, the whole question of the CSA not sanctioning a way to have competitive soccer in its own territory is a huge failure, and a sign that we are total freaks in the game and have no right to have any say, get WCs, and much less be elected to run a whole confederation.

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4 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Obviously I should not even be anywhere near these threads

Ya, probably.

I mean, look, it's pretty simple. We have almost no idea what is going on with the CPL, so we're trying to fill in the blanks, make shit up, come up with ways it could work, or at least ways we hope it would work. The CSA has clamped down on information to such an extent that all we really know is (1) they're aiming for 2018 (in Ottawa there's all these ads about how the light-rail project is "On Track 2018", which they claim means they'll be ready in/by 2018, but we joke means they'll be on schedule in 2018, finished in 2038), (2) Hamilton is involved, and maybe (3) they're planning to have some sort of cost-sharing structure similar to the MLS, but not literally the single-entity stuff (depending on if we trust journalists reports).

That's it. For all we know in 2 months they could announce a 20 team league with 20 billionaire owners. Equally it could never happen. We have no idea, we just know they're aiming for 2018 and Hamilton is involved. 

But this is exciting to us, we want this to happen asap, we want it to be a success, and we just want to talk about it. We want to offer our theories and our ideas. We are filling the vacuum of information with what is, to be perfectly honest (and I certainly include most of what I say in this), complete nonsense that we're pulling out of our asses.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Because one of the most important things in life is hope. Even cynics like me, who figure that it's a bad idea to have kids because the human race is completely fucked as a result of continuing to do fuck all about global warming (and President Trump will probably launch a half dozen nukes), still need and want hope. Every comment on here gives me a little bit of hope that the CPL could happen, which could then help us get to a World Cup at some point before Canada becomes a tropical paradise. 

So be a pessimist, but don't take it out on the rest of us for dreaming.

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2 minutes ago, Viruk42 said:

Ya, probably.

I mean, look, it's pretty simple. We have almost no idea what is going on with the CPL, so we're trying to fill in the blanks, make shit up, come up with ways it could work, or at least ways we hope it would work. The CSA has clamped down on information to such an extent that all we really know is (1) they're aiming for 2018 (in Ottawa there's all these ads about how the light-rail project is "On Track 2018", which they claim means they'll be ready in/by 2018, but we joke means they'll be on schedule in 2018, finished in 2038), (2) Hamilton is involved, and maybe (3) they're planning to have some sort of cost-sharing structure similar to the MLS, but not literally the single-entity stuff (depending on if we trust journalists reports).

That's it. For all we know in 2 months they could announce a 20 team league with 20 billionaire owners. Equally it could never happen. We have no idea, we just know they're aiming for 2018 and Hamilton is involved. 

But this is exciting to us, we want this to happen asap, we want it to be a success, and we just want to talk about it. We want to offer our theories and our ideas. We are filling the vacuum of information with what is, to be perfectly honest (and I certainly include most of what I say in this), complete nonsense that we're pulling out of our asses.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Because one of the most important things in life is hope. Even cynics like me, who figure that it's a bad idea to have kids because the human race is completely fucked as a result of continuing to do fuck all about global warming (and President Trump will probably launch a half dozen nukes), still need and want hope. Every comment on here gives me a little bit of hope that the CPL could happen, which could then help us get to a World Cup at some point before Canada becomes a tropical paradise. 

So be a pessimist, but don't take it out on the rest of us for dreaming.

You cannot decree optimism, that is socially, politically and psychologically scary. 

I'm going to start an "I'm gonna be Angelina Jolie's kids new dad" thread, and don't you get on my case. I am even going to come up with a cool logo to help get Angelina to say yes.

Fortunately I am already the right age, accomplished, and at least as good-looking as Brad.

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3 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You cannot decree optimism, that is socially, politically and psychologically scary. 

I'm going to start an "I'm gonna be Angelina Jolie's kids new dad" thread, and don't you get on my case. I am even going to come up with a cool logo to help get Angelina to say yes.

Fortunately I am already the right age, accomplished, and at least as good-looking as Brad.

Who said anything about decreeing optimism? I'm just asking you not to shit on our parade

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26 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Just my personal opinion, but this whole business of coming up with logos for the CPL is incredibly immature, I realize this is a silly fan forum, but that stuff is totally aimless. Not to mention not one of the guys pitching in has any real training, knowledge or even respect for the profession that creates quality logos for brands.

 

26 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Obviously I should not even be anywhere near these threads

Figure your life out bud

200w.gif

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19 hours ago, Viruk42 said:

Can I just say, I stand by my earlier assertion that the league would be best with 3 clusters. West, Ontario, and East. Travel costs get reduced by playing more games within the cluster (I want to highlight calling it a cluster, not a division, because it would simply be for scheduling, not rankings, playoffs, etc). Assuming we'll have playoffs (because that's what we're used to in Canada), the top 4 teams could play home-home semi-finals, followed by a pre-determined neutral venue final. 

3-5 teams in each cluster for 9, 12, or 15 total.
West could eventually be Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Regina or Saskatoon, Winnipeg.
Ontario, start with Hamilton, a GTA team, and Ottawa, add two of Windsor, London, Kingston kind of thing. 
East would involve a second Montreal team, Quebec City, Moncton, Halifax, and St. John's. 

I know it's weird, but it's an easy way to reduce travel costs, which are often cited as one of the biggest impediments to a league here, or even just the continued existence of FC Edmonton. Furthermore it prioritizes likely rivalries - as an Ottawa native, I honestly don't care about seeing the Fury play FC Edmonton anymore than I care about Rayo OKC. But I'd love to see us beat a GTA team or Kingston 4 times a year ;). So you have 1 home-home against every team, but extra games in-cluster.

 

If you REALLY wanted to save money on travel you would cluster teams around metro areas not just region. ie multiple teams per metro area.

I posted this in the general CPL thread but it is probably more relevant here:

East Conference:

1. Toronto 1

2. Toronto 2

3. Mississauga

4. Hamilton

5. Kitchener

6. Ottawa 

7. Montreal 1

8. Montreal 2

 

West Conference:

1. Vancouver 1

2. Vancouver 2

3. Victoria

4. Calgary 1

5. Calgary 2

6. Edmonton 1

7. Edmonton 2

 

This is a different way of looking about how to set a pro league but we are a big country and setup like this would simultaneously cut millions out of travel costs and allow us to have more teams. 

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