Vote: CPL cities needed to succeed

[Kent]

Thanks man!

CPL definitely needs Surrey-Vancouver, Toronto and Downtown Montreal to start.

One more thing I'll point out because of the belief that most people have that all three are needed. Yes of course for the long term the league could only reach it's full potential if all 3 have a team (at least one team), but the CFL had a spell in the 80's and 90's without Montreal (they didn't play from 1987 through 1995).

Edit: glitch quoted Ted instead of Ansem. Did best I could to fix it.

[Ansem]

To answer this thread question or push it further, let's for the fun of it until we get definitive details, imagine a full CPL table.

I'm using StatCan 2015 census as a reference since I believe that CPL needs a team in the top Metro area in the country.

A-Single table CPL Cup

1. Toronto (Metro pop. 6.1M) *CONCACAF Champions League*
2. Montreal (4M) *CONCACAF Champions League* Usually runner up gets a spot
3. Vancouver-Surrey (2.5M)
4. Calgary (1.4M)
5. Edmonton (1.36M)
6. Ottawa (1.33M)
7. Quebec City (806k)
8. Winnipeg (793k)
9. Hamilton (771k)
10. Tri-City (Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge) (511k)
11. London (506k)
12. Halifax (417k)
13. Oshawa (389k)
14. Victoria (365k)
15. Windsor (335k)
16. Saskatoon (305k)
17. Regina (241k)
18. Sherbrooke (214.5k)
19. St.John's (214.3k)
20. Moncton (148k)

B-Canadian Championship

• Round 1 (Enters D4 and lower teams)
• Round 2 (enters D3 Teams)
• Round 3 (Enters Previous year "Memorial Cup" D3 champion and Division 1 CPL+MLS)

Winner: CONCACAF Champions League (For a total of 3 spots)

 

or

 

A-Conferences

East

1. Toronto (Metro pop. 6.1M)  Playoffs
2. Montreal (4M) Playoffs
3. Ottawa (1.33M) Playoffs
4. Quebec City (806k) ***Wildcard
5. Hamilton (771k) ***Wildcard
6. Tri-City (Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge) (511k)
7. London (506k)
8. Halifax (417k)
9. Oshawa (389k)
10. Moncton (148k)
11. Sherbrooke (214.5k) or St.John's (214.3k)

 

West

1. Vancouver-Surrey (2.5M) Playoffs
2. Calgary (1.4M) Playoffs
3. Edmonton (1.36M) Playoffs
4. Winnipeg (793k) ***Wildcard
5. Windsor (335k) ****Wildcard
6. St.Catharines-Niagara (408k)
7. Victoria (365k)
8. Saskatoon (305k)
9. Regina (241k)
10. Kelowna (197k)
11. Abbotsford-Mission (183k)

CPL Champion: *CONCACAF Champions League*

CPL Regular Season winner: *CONCACAF Champions League*

 

B-Canadian Championship Quarter Finals knock-stage

• Round 1 (Enters D4 and lower teams)
• Round 2 (enters D3 Teams)
• Round 3 (Enters Previous year "Memorial Cup" D3 champion and Division 1 CPL+MLS)

 

Winner: CONCACAF Champions League (For a total of 3 spots)

 

 

[Ngravs]

I think for the league to be successful we need rivalries such as

Regina Winnipeg

Toronto-Hamilton 

Montreal-Ottawa (Quebec) 

Calgary-Edmonton 

get the average fan interested maybe even attract university students to games I know they love drinking and rivalries with other universities (being one of them).

[ironcub14]

Just leaping in the thread quickly, I know this may be ambitious but I always feel like a league in a country as geographically large as Canada needs more than 8 clubs to start. I would put the number ideally at 10, and maximum at 12 to start, but I feel like 8 is just a bit small to start, having only 7 opponents.

I've enjoyed the arguments in the main CPL thread for a downtown Toronto team over a Mississauga team, and the argument for a downtown Montreal team from Ansem just above. I lived in Vancouver for a few years and I really enjoyed the Caps/CanMNT matches at Swangard. I think the stadium is on the original SkyTrain line, and with the historical footy significance that location holds, if an ownership group that can be found in the billionaire range would commit to completely revamping the stadium, then I would argue for it wholeheartedly over Surrey or any of the burbs further out.

I didn't follow this closely at all when it happened, but I can't believe that Vancouver Waterfront Stadium didn't pan out, what the hell happened? That would have been incredible.

[sajc]

Vancouver independent

Calgary

Edmonton

Winnipeg

Regina

Saskatoon

Toronto independent

Montreal independent

Hamilton

Quebec city

Ottawa

I forgot Ottawa so I added them and added west team Sakatoon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kent]

42 minutes ago, Ansem said:

B-Canadian Championship Quarter Finals knock-stage

• TFC vs (survivor of group stage from D1 to D3)
• Vancouver Whitecaps vs (survivor of group stage from D1 to D3)
• Montreal Impact vs (survivor of group stage from D1 to D3)
• CPL Champion vs (CPL Regular Season winner)

In my opinion, MLS teams shouldn't be seeded higher than CPL teams (with the possible exception of the defending Voyaguers Cup champion). Even though we know to start out (and for the foreseeable future) MLS teams will be better, I think CPL and MLS teams should enter the Voyageurs Cup at the same stage. If there are 8 CPL teams, then that makes 11 including MLS teams. We would just need 5 more teams to come from NASL (if there are still any after CPL starts), L1O, PLSQ, any other D3 regional leagues (pleeeease BC and Praries get this going!). Those teams can have some sort of preliminary round games to get into the big show with the big boys.

I would ideally like to have it be a draw at the point of getting to the first round proper with 16 teams. Let's face it, the first time CPL wins the Voyageurs Cup it will be a feather in the cap of the league. The setup you are proposing makes it more difficult to do so. The setup I am proposing makes it easier for CPL to do so, without giving it any unfair advantages, aside from advantages over D3 teams which I think is fair.

[Ansem]

5 minutes ago, Kent said:

In my opinion, MLS teams shouldn't be seeded higher than CPL teams (with the possible exception of the defending champion). Even though we know to start out (and for the foreseeable future) MLS teams will be better, I think CPL and MLS teams should enter the Voyageurs Cup at the same stage. If there are 8 CPL teams, then that makes 11 including MLS teams. We would just need 5 more teams to come from NASL (if there are still any after CPL starts), L1O, PLSQ, any other D3 regional leagues (pleeeease BC and Praries get this going!). Those teams can have some sort of preliminary round games to get into the big show with the big boys.

I would ideally like to have it be a draw at the point of getting to the first round proper with 16 teams. Let's face it, the first time CPL wins the Voyageurs Cup it will be a feather in the cap of the league. The setup you are proposing makes it more difficult to do so. The setup I am proposing makes it easier for CPL to do so, without giving it any unfair advantages, aside from advantages over D3 teams which I think is fair.

Is that how the US Open Cup works?

I used that format as a point of negotiation between MLS clubs and the CSA. The only way for a Canadian MLS Club to go to the CCL is to win the Canadian Championship.

The CSA could use this format as leverage to reduce the number of matches they would have to play against a few concessions like them not trying to compete outside of their territories with CPL clubs, development of Canadian talent, etc...

Just a thought

[Kent]

4 minutes ago, sajc said:

Vancouver independent

Calgary

Edmonton

Winnipeg

Regina

Toronto independent

Montreal independent

Hamilton

Quebec city

to start cpl

Care to cut one of those teams to make it 8 instead of 9?

[ironcub14]

My vote at the moment, it may always change quickly as things develop further.

I noticed one thing interesting that I'm not sure has come up in a CPL discussion, but creating a rivalry a decade down the road for Ottawa vs. Gatineau would be pretty sick to watch, the rivalry is most definitely there.

I've got my votes in below for an eventual 20-team CPL.

Starting 10 (dammit, I just can't do the 8)

• Vancouver (independent) (6)
• Calgary (20)
• Edmonton (16)
• Regina (10)
• Winnipeg (19)
• Hamilton (19)
• Toronto (independent) (15)
• Ottawa (19)
• Montreal (independent) (1)
• Quebec City (17)

1st Expansion of 4

• Victoria (7)
• Saskatoon (0)
• London (1)
• Halifax (3)

2nd Expansion of 6 (MLS if CPL is beyond our wildest imagination by 2030, USL if CPL finds a steady state relationship with MLS)

• Vancouver (MLS/USL) (1)
• Kitchener-Waterloo (0)
• Toronto (MLS/USL) (1)
• Montreal (MLS/USL) (1)
• Moncton (4)
• Gatineau (0)

[Pqhbv]

 

@Kent  16 teams might be ideal but a tad unrealistic. I like where you're going overall and maybe to start just the 11 you described and the interprovincial cup champion for spot 12 could work. 

[Kent]

5 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Is that how the US Open Cup works?

As far as I can tell from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Lamar_Hunt_U.S._Open_Cup

It looks like USL teams are introduced in the second round, NASL teams are introduced in the third round, and MLS teams are introduced in the 4th round (8 rounds total).

However, it's important to note that USSF doesn't have 2 D1 levels. I am going under the assumption that we are considering CPL D1 alongside MLS. To me that means entering the Voyageurs Cup at the same point.

[Ansem]

8 minutes ago, Kent said:

As far as I can tell from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Lamar_Hunt_U.S._Open_Cup

It looks like USL teams are introduced in the second round, NASL teams are introduced in the third round, and MLS teams are introduced in the 4th round (8 rounds total).

However, it's important to note that USSF doesn't have 2 D1 levels. I am going under the assumption that we are considering CPL D1 alongside MLS. To me that means entering the Voyageurs Cup at the same point.

good point, i'll change my post to

• Round 1 (Enters D4 and lower teams)
• Round 2 (enters D3 Teams)
• Round 3 (Enters Previous year "Memorial Cup" D3 champion and Division 1 CPL+MLS)

[Kent]

5 minutes ago, Pqhbv said:

 

@Kent  16 teams might be ideal but a tad unrealistic. I like where you're going overall and maybe to start just the 11 you described and the interprovincial cup champion for spot 12 could work. 

But then how do you get from those 12 down to 1 champion? Do you use a group stage? Or do you give 4 teams a bye to the round of 8?

In my opinion, a L1O team travelling to Calgary to play against the biggest crowd they have ever played in front of is not a burden. Or, Calgary coming to play your local D3 team and draw out new fans to watch the local team against the big boys. That's the stuff that I think helps our D3 grow, and also helps D1 teams scout potential players.

[Pqhbv]

56 minutes ago, Kent said:

But then how do you get from those 12 down to 1 champion? Do you use a group stage? Or do you give 4 teams a bye to the round of 8?

In my opinion, a L1O team travelling to Calgary to play against the biggest crowd they have ever played in front of is not a burden. Or, Calgary coming to play your local D3 team and draw out new fans to watch the local team against the big boys. That's the stuff that I think helps our D3 grow, and also helps D1 teams scout potential players.

Group stage; gives the interprovincial champion (whether L1O or PLSQ) more exposure and keeps the CPL on equal footing with the MLS teams as far as entry is concerned. 

[Gopherbashi]

TIL: 8/10 Voyageurs have no idea how to count to 8 teams.

[rob.notenboom]

8 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

TIL: 8/10 Voyageurs have no idea how to count to 8 teams.

That's irrelevant. All of our thoughts, plans, and predictions for CanPL are spot on!

[One American]

Has nobody voted for Windsor? 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Okay so since I'm only allowed to pick 8:

East:

1) Hamilton(Obvious)

2) GTA/Mississauga(either or)

3)Halifax (gotta have some sort of footprint on the east coast, lays the groundwork for future expansion)

4) Ottawa(Quebec City if for some reason Ottawa doesn't want to make the jump - first round of expansion for QC otherwise)

West:

1) Edmonton

2) Calgary

3)  Winnipeg

4)  Saskatoon   (Regina already has the Riders, Saskatoon is pretty barren, Regina would be an obvious early expansion if Stoon works)

Pretty sure I nailed it :P - not a decent amount of early competition from MLS, although those would be obvious early expansions.  All relatively decent potential markets or without a ton of competition, and since we haven't hit BC, travel in the west is cut down a bit.  Lays the foundation for where we want to go next without stepping on too many toes at first.

 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 5:29 PM, FC_Hali said:

 

Saskatchewan United FC- New Roughriders Stadium

 

Please no.  We want Saskatchewan divided, not united

[mpg_29]

19 hours ago, Ansem said:

To answer this thread question or push it further, let's for the fun of it until we get definitive details, imagine a full CPL table.

I'm using StatCan 2015 census as a reference since I believe that CPL needs a team in the top Metro area in the country.

A-Single table CPL Cup

1. Toronto (Metro pop. 6.1M) *CONCACAF Champions League*
2. Montreal (4M) *CONCACAF Champions League* Usually runner up gets a spot
3. Vancouver-Surrey (2.5M)
4. Calgary (1.4M)
5. Edmonton (1.36M)
6. Ottawa (1.33M)
7. Quebec City (806k)
8. Winnipeg (793k)
9. Hamilton (771k)
10. Tri-City (Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge) (511k)
11. London (506k)
12. Halifax (417k)
13. Oshawa (389k)
14. Victoria (365k)
15. Windsor (335k)
16. Saskatoon (305k)
17. Regina (241k)
18. Sherbrooke (214.5k)
19. St.John's (214.3k)
20. Moncton (148k)

 

or

 

A-Conferences

East

1. Toronto (Metro pop. 6.1M)  Playoffs
2. Montreal (4M) Playoffs
3. Ottawa (1.33M) Playoffs
4. Quebec City (806k) ***Wildcard
5. Hamilton (771k) ***Wildcard
6. Tri-City (Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge) (511k)
7. London (506k)
8. Halifax (417k)
9. Oshawa (389k)
10. Moncton (148k)
11. Sherbrooke (214.5k) or St.John's (214.3k)

 

West

1. Vancouver-Surrey (2.5M) Playoffs
2. Calgary (1.4M) Playoffs
3. Edmonton (1.36M) Playoffs
4. Winnipeg (793k) ***Wildcard
5. Windsor (335k) ****Wildcard
6. St.Catharines-Niagara (408k)
7. Victoria (365k)
8. Saskatoon (305k)
9. Regina (241k)
10. Kelowna (197k)
11. Abbotsford-Mission (183k)

 

 

See, when I see a table of 20 teams it instantly gives a sense of realness and credibility to a potential league. 

I honestly think there is as much of a risk starting with too few teams as there is starting with too many. And in my opinion any professional league with fewer than 12 teams gives a perception of it not being serious AND not touching enough of that country. 

I actually there is more of a risk of the league failing by starting with only 8 teams rather than say 12.

[RickC]

I do agree with mpg_29 that having too few teams may be a risk. However, regarding leagues with fewer than 12 teams having a negative perception, perhaps it's more about the sheer geographical size of Canada that "requires" us to have more teams, Although not in the big 5 or so European leagues, the Swiss and Austrian D1 leagues only have 10 teams and they're certainly regarded as serious leagues. But, stretch the area to match ours and that's where more teams are needed.

[mpg_29]

Irish Premier League has 12. Norway 16. Sweden 16. Denmark 14...

Australia 10. Russia 16.

 

No one is below double digits.

 

10 teams should be min requirement to start this league.

[baulderdash77]

To me the big issue is that there isn't enough population to form a critical mass in some of these cities to support a CPL team.

I think there's only enough base to create 1 team in Sask & 1 in Atlantic Canada; and the Atlantic Canada one is tight because there's only 1 stadium right now in Moncton.

Quebec can support a team in Montreal (probably along with the Impact) and Quebec City.

In Ontario I think there's Toronto, Ottawa, Hamilton and maybe K-W and London.

In Manitoba we have Winnipeg & Alberta you have Calgary & Edmonton.

BC has maybe Vancouver (along with Whitecaps) or maybe not and maybe Victoria.

That really gives us IMO 9 solid potential markets (QC, Mtl, Ott, Tor, Ham, Wpg, Sask, Edm, Cal) and 5 maybe markets (Atl Canada, K-W, Lon, Van, Vict).  I just can't see any other markets even being maybe markets.  To be honest I think it's hard to get over 8 to start and it's almost dreaming in technicolor to get 14 teams.

[rob.notenboom]

10 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

Please no.  We want Saskatchewan divided, not united

Considering within the last 36 months there have been two lawsuits and a couple appeals between clubs, associations, and individuals, we're already divided. 

[baulderdash77]

Quick note on new leagues- The A-League started off as an 8 team league, expanded to 11 and went back down to 10 fairly stable teams again.  A league under 10 can be successful.