Vote: CPL cities needed to succeed

[ted]

24 minutes ago, Tuscan said:

I only just saw this now and am SHOCKED at the Saskatoon hate I'm finding here.

 

Hey I put Saskatoon in the same category as Victoria! That's not hate.

[Viruk42]

27 minutes ago, Tuscan said:

9. Ottawa

So the only team that is already established with decent ownership and decent attendance, is 9th on your list? (Yes FC Edmonton is already established, but they get half the fans and their ownership doesn't seem interested in CPL, unlike the Fury's)

[MrSabiondo]

CPL needs every city and every team possible to succeed.

[C2SKI]

Perhaps a bit idyllic, and certainly not going to happen, but my vote would be to have the original teams in the provincial capitals. Add bigger markets later on. Therefore:

1) Victoria 2)Edmonton 3)Regina 4)Winnipeg 5)Ottawa 6)Quebec City 7) Fredericton 8) Charlottetown 9)Halifax 10) St. John's

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

7 hours ago, -Hammer- said:

Being able to have driveable regional rivals will be key.

so much this.  You can add a significant percentage of gate revenue if home games have a significant away following going both ways.

[FC_Hali]

WEST (5)

Vancouver 86ers- Swangard Stadium

Calgary Foothills FC- McMann Stadium

FC Edmonton- Clarke Stadium (expanded)

Wnnipeg City FC- Investors field

Saskatchewan United FC- New Roughriders Stadium

EAST (2)

Ottawa Fury FC- TD Stadium

Hamilton Steel FC- Tim Hortens

Sigma FC- Hershey (expanded?) Or Lamport Stadium

Montreal Supra- McGill

Forest City London- Western/ new stadium at Fanshawe

Future expansion: Victoria, Quebec City

Notes: London is a soccer city and its ready to pop. I know the owner of FC London and the mayor were discussing building a sss at Fanshawe college.

Would love to have a future team out here in the East Coast but, tbh, I don't see it happening. Soccer NS is poorly operated lacks any ambition. Moncton is a more progressive soccer city but it lacks the population.

[TRM]

Any list that does not have our 3 largest TV markets is not viable IMHO. So with that said here are the teams that just have to be there:

Toronto (a second non-MLS may work there)

Montreal (seriously doubt anyone could compete with the Impact)

Vancouver (ditto for what was said about Montreal)

Any 5 other cities as "filler". No disrespect intended to the other 5 but from a marketing "get real" type standpoint if it doesn't have the big 3 the rest won't matter much. Could they do it with 2/3rds? Possible but still loses a lot of credibility without a truly national footprint. A prairies plus Ontario league just won't cut it.

[CDNFootballer]

•  
• Vancouver (independent)
•  
• Calgary
•  
•  
• Regina
• Winnipeg
•  
•  
• Hamilton
• Toronto (independent)
•  
• Ottawa
•  
•  
• Quebec City
•  
•  

[Pqhbv]

Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Toronto (indie), Ottawa, Quebec. I'm at seven for lucky success and all to start...

 

#8 Would have to be Vancouver independent somehow, but I like several of these other options being pitched.

[Gordon]

The only market that really matters is the Greater Toronto area. After that, any distribution of teams in different parts of the country is potentially viable. Conversely, any configuration that excludes GTA will not succeed on the scal currently suggested. Montreal and Vancouver are not significant enough markets to materially effect the success or failure of the venture, although obviously it would be better to have a presence in BC and Quebec than not.

[baulderdash77]

Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Toronto (independent), Ottawa, Quebec City.

Stay out of Montreal and Vancouver for now.  Maybe Victoria and something in Atlantic Canada as a future expansion.

[Kent]

16 hours ago, Tuscan said:

I only just saw this now and am SHOCKED at the Saskatoon hate I'm finding here. Wait 5 years until places AS GLORIOUS as Saskatoon are considered? Piss on that, I say! My list (in order of Canadian city importance then West to East):

1. SASKATOON (go to hell haters!!!!!!!!!!!)

2. Victoria

3. Vancouver (independent)

4. Calgary

5. Edmonton (someone buy out the Faths, please)

6. Regina (someone threaten family members if the name Roughriders FC gets mentioned)

7. Winnipeg (really REALLY enjoying @Benjamin Massey's Riel Winnipeg name even if it was a joke)

8. GTA (independent, doesn't have to be right in Toronto, could be M'sauga etc)

9. Ottawa

10. Montreal (independent)

11. Quebec City

12. Halifax (due to @GuillermoDelQuarto's badge design)

Of all the people, I last would have suspected you to hate on Saskatoon, but you intentionally spoiled your ballot to make sure they remain at 0 votes? For shame!

Sorry folks, i am a nerd and want to keep the data consistent. Loving the discussion though, and I hadn't heard Riel Winnipeg either. Fantastic name!

Ranked results up to this point:

Top 8
16 - Calgary (everyone has voted for Calgary so far)
15 - Winnipeg, Hamilton, Ottawa
14 - Quebec City
12 - Edmonton, Toronto (independent)
8 - Regina

Rounding out the field
6 - Vancouver (independent)
5 - Victoria
4 - Moncton
2 - Halifax
1 - Vancouver (USL), London, Toronto (USL), Montreal (USL)
0 - Saskatoon, Kitchener-Waterloo, Montreal (independent)

[Kent]

15 hours ago, Viruk42 said:

So the only team that is already established with decent ownership and decent attendance, is 9th on your list? (Yes FC Edmonton is already established, but they get half the fans and their ownership doesn't seem interested in CPL, unlike the Fury's)

It was 9th on his list due to geography. He did it west to east like my original list, with the notable exception with the most importantest city listed first.

[rob.notenboom]

I think I'll go by most likely based on the collection of rumours/investors/etc -

1. Hamilton (Young/TiCats)

2. Toronto (unnamed billionaire, if true, completely changed the landscape)

3. Ottawa (already solid ownership)

4. Winnipeg (TNSE)

5. Calgary (Flames)

6. Here's where it starts to get more tricky. I'm going to say Edmonton based on the recent 'NASL in real trouble' stories. If NASL was stable I don't think FCE would jump. 

7. Regina? I'd love to see a team, but the Riders are suddenly the least rich of this lot. 

8. Now this one's really tough. Maybe Quebec City. 

This is a lot more fun than beating each other up over pro/rel, viability, MLS reserve teams, USL inclusion, etc, etc. Great thread idea. 

[Copes]

I read the forums all the time but I don't post often. That said, I really want to get involved with some of this CPL discussion. I really want this league.

So, 8 teams? This is where I would start:

• Victoria
• Edmonton
• Calgary
• Winnipeg
• Hamilton
• Ottawa
• Quebec City
• Halifax

This keeps all CPL teams out of the 3 MLS markets. It makes Voyageur's Cup a fun tournament with 1 team from each city, and allows CPL to grow before going head to head with the MLS teams.  

I'm Atlantic Canadian, I grew up in Nova Scotia and have lived in St. John's for eight years. I want to talk a bit about Atlantic Canadian selection. 

I feel like Halifax is the hub of the region. Maybe this is my bias, but Moncton to me doesn't have the same importance to Atlantic Canada that Halifax does. Halifax has the major airport, Halifax feels more like a "big city"... Halifax needs to be the first CPL team in Atlantic Canada. Moncton will undoubtedly come, and it should. And the rivalry will be great. However I feel that Halifax has more potential to attract "Atlantic Canadian" fans than Moncton does. I also think it has more appeal for visitors and away supporters, just based on the city and the things to do.

As for the other areas, I've touched on Moncton but I really do think that Moncton also needs a team. I think that Halifax and Moncton have a natural rivalry and the Maritime battles would be pretty epic.

However, as a St. John's native I really think that there is massive expansion potential in St. John's, as well. I'm surprised they aren't on the front page list of options because I definitely think a true CPL will operate here. St. John's has one of the oldest soccer-specific stadiums in North America, and the oldest in Canada from what I can tell. We only ever qualified for the World Cup once, and it was out of St. John's. The stadium has history, and it underwent a renovation fairly recently (about ten years ago I think?) Supposedly it has capacity for 10,000, which I find hard to believe, but that is what they claim. Great location. In terms of the city, Soccer is huge not only in the capital city but in the surrounding areas. People in St. Lawrence live for soccer, its actually insane. Their Challenge Cup team consistently competes. Additionally, there is definitely a sense of pride in this province for "local" that I've notice far exceeds anything I ever experienced in Nova Scotia. The AHL team here has had phenomenal attendance.

I guess what I'm getting at is I think there would be absolutely no issue with supporters in this city. I think the base is here, and I think the groundwork for a stadium is here. The down side of course is travel. Bad weather and being on an island make it so every team would have to fly in, and our team would have to fly out, for every game. So that is costly, and not necessary to incur in the first few years. After that though? Once this league is sound I think that not having a team in St. John's, and missing out on taking advantage of one of the most unique cultures in the country, would be a massive crime. 

St. John's for the short-list!
 

[Kent]

10 minutes ago, Copes said:

However, as a St. John's native I really think that there is massive expansion potential in St. John's, as well. I'm surprised they aren't on the front page list of options because I definitely think a true CPL will operate here. St. John's has one of the oldest soccer-specific stadiums in North America, and the oldest in Canada from what I can tell. We only ever qualified for the World Cup once, and it was out of St. John's. The stadium has history, and it underwent a renovation fairly recently (about ten years ago I think?) Supposedly it has capacity for 10,000, which I find hard to believe, but that is what they claim. Great location. In terms of the city, Soccer is huge not only in the capital city but in the surrounding areas. People in St. Lawrence live for soccer, its actually insane. Their Challenge Cup team consistently competes. Additionally, there is definitely a sense of pride in this province for "local" that I've notice far exceeds anything I ever experienced in Nova Scotia. The AHL team here has had phenomenal attendance.

I guess what I'm getting at is I think there would be absolutely no issue with supporters in this city. I think the base is here, and I think the groundwork for a stadium is here. The down side of course is travel. Bad weather and being on an island make it so every team would have to fly in, and our team would have to fly out, for every game. So that is costly, and not necessary to incur in the first few years. After that though? Once this league is sound I think that not having a team in St. John's, and missing out on taking advantage of one of the most unique cultures in the country, would be a massive crime. 

St. John's for the short-list!

I thought about St. John's, but didn't include them because I thought King George V Park was no longer really a stadium, but I am apparently wrong about that! I put Halifax in because it's the biggest city in Atlantic Canada, and Moncton because of their stadium and the fact that they hosted WWC games last year. In addition to what I thought was the stadium situation in St. John's, I didn't think it was likely that anybody would pick it as a top 8 team (and it hasn't yet had a write in for a top 8, just mentioned by someone as part of their 10 team list, along with all the other provincial capitals).

Anyways, I liked reading your thoughts on the area. Great to hear your insight!

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, Copes said:

I read the forums all the time but I don't post often. That said, I really want to get involved with some of this CPL discussion. I really want this league.

So, 8 teams? This is where I would start:

• Victoria
• Edmonton
• Calgary
• Winnipeg
• Hamilton
• Ottawa
• Quebec City
• Halifax

This keeps all CPL teams out of the 3 MLS markets. It makes Voyageur's Cup a fun tournament with 1 team from each city, and allows CPL to grow before going head to head with the MLS teams.  

I'm Atlantic Canadian, I grew up in Nova Scotia and have lived in St. John's for eight years. I want to talk a bit about Atlantic Canadian selection. 

I feel like Halifax is the hub of the region. Maybe this is my bias, but Moncton to me doesn't have the same importance to Atlantic Canada that Halifax does. Halifax has the major airport, Halifax feels more like a "big city"... Halifax needs to be the first CPL team in Atlantic Canada. Moncton will undoubtedly come, and it should. And the rivalry will be great. However I feel that Halifax has more potential to attract "Atlantic Canadian" fans than Moncton does. I also think it has more appeal for visitors and away supporters, just based on the city and the things to do.

As for the other areas, I've touched on Moncton but I really do think that Moncton also needs a team. I think that Halifax and Moncton have a natural rivalry and the Maritime battles would be pretty epic.

However, as a St. John's native I really think that there is massive expansion potential in St. John's, as well. I'm surprised they aren't on the front page list of options because I definitely think a true CPL will operate here. St. John's has one of the oldest soccer-specific stadiums in North America, and the oldest in Canada from what I can tell. We only ever qualified for the World Cup once, and it was out of St. John's. The stadium has history, and it underwent a renovation fairly recently (about ten years ago I think?) Supposedly it has capacity for 10,000, which I find hard to believe, but that is what they claim. Great location. In terms of the city, Soccer is huge not only in the capital city but in the surrounding areas. People in St. Lawrence live for soccer, its actually insane. Their Challenge Cup team consistently competes. Additionally, there is definitely a sense of pride in this province for "local" that I've notice far exceeds anything I ever experienced in Nova Scotia. The AHL team here has had phenomenal attendance.

I guess what I'm getting at is I think there would be absolutely no issue with supporters in this city. I think the base is here, and I think the groundwork for a stadium is here. The down side of course is travel. Bad weather and being on an island make it so every team would have to fly in, and our team would have to fly out, for every game. So that is costly, and not necessary to incur in the first few years. After that though? Once this league is sound I think that not having a team in St. John's, and missing out on taking advantage of one of the most unique cultures in the country, would be a massive crime. 

St. John's for the short-list!
 

I'm curious to see what happens when the Irvings pass away. If all that wealth gets divided up, one of the younger Irvings might have an interest in a team (assuming men in their late 80s aren't interested in launching a soccer team). That's ~11 billion that will be split up, a few Joey Saputo-esque guys might emerge with an interest in the maritimes

[David C.]

So, for me, a CPL would need to do two things. One, it needs to be a small, tight league - meaning 8 teams max. Second, and this won't be popular, it needs to focus and tap into our largest metro markets.

That means the big six (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary and Ottawa) are an absolute  must for the new league. Then, ideally, you include two of the next three big cities (Winnipeg, Quebec City or Hamilton). That's all.

I am sure that there are a few smaller municipalities that could support a team well. Victoria, Regina/Saskatoon, London, Vaughan and Halifax come to mind but this isn't a nation-wide regional junior hockey type of scenario we're talking about - it's our national D1 league. So, for me it's down to that shortlist of nine.

EDIT:  Since Kent wants us to limit our selections to 8 teams, for his poll, I would drop Quebec City, to keep travel distances down, even though I think they are a credible location to consider. That make 8 teams from me. Cheers!

[zen]

3 hours ago, David C. said:

So, for me, a CPL would need to do two things. One, it needs to be a small, tight league - meaning 8 teams max. Second, and this won't be popular, it needs to focus and tap into our largest metro markets.

That means the big six (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary and Ottawa) are an absolute  must for the new league. Then, ideally, you include two of the next three big cities (Winnipeg, Quebec City or Hamilton). That's all.

I am sure that there are a few smaller municipalities that could support a team well. Victoria, Regina/Saskatoon, London, Vaughan and Halifax come to mind but this isn't a nation-wide regional junior hockey type of scenario we're talking about - it's our national D1 league. So, for me it's down to that shortlist of nine.

Sorry Vaughan is a horrible place for a pro team.

[An Observer]

Victoria

calgary

edmonton

winnipeg

 

hamilton

gta

ottawa

quebec city

 

first round of expansion

saskatoon

halifax

 

second round of expansion

montreal

vancouver

[Kent]

Updated rankings as of this morning. Top 6 are above the orange line, top 8 above the red line. Calgary still has a vote from each voter. Only voters that showed a clear first 8 have had their votes counted (so if you gave more than or less than 8, you can still give me a list of 8 to have your vote counted. More specifically, PJSweet, deschamp86, Tuscan, C2SKI, FC_Hali, TRM, Gordon).

Calgary	19
Winnipeg	18
Ottawa	18
Hamilton	18
Quebec City	17
Edmonton	15
Toronto (independent)	14
Regina	9
Victoria	7
Vancouver (independent)	6
Moncton	4
Halifax	3
Vancouver (USL)	1
Toronto (USL)	1
Montreal (USL)	1
London	1
Saskatoon	0
Montreal (independent)	0
Kitchener-Waterloo	0

[grande]

18 hours ago, zen said:

Sorry Vaughan is a horrible place for a pro team.

FTFY

[Ansem]

I thought I`d post this here so I don`t derail the other thread

A case for a CPL Montreal team:

I had discussions with friends in Montreal and they are of the opposite opinion that a CPL Montreal team could indeed work based on theses factors:

• Location: CPL stadium MUST be downtown, and ideally use the McGill Percival Molson stadium or build a new one. The Saputo stadium where the Impact plays right now is in Eastern Montreal, next to the Olympic Stadium on the green subway line. It`s not the most ideal place for people to get there, and quite frankly, I always thought it was an odd location to pick.

Montreal Impact

Potential downtown CPL venue

Downtown has 3 metro lines providing links to South shore, downtown business area and literally the heart of the city, making this location very convenient to just hop on the metro and go see a game.

Percival Molson Stadium of McGill University on the mountain: Perfect for TV

25 000 seats

 

• Establishing a rivalry right away : What`s hotter than a Toronto-Montreal rivalry? In hockey, it`s Boston-Montreal but hey, the MLS did such a poor job in replicating this rivalry in soccer that no one even notices the New England Revolution. So we have Toronto and now Ottawa in hockey. This is where CPL can shine and since we`re all Canadians, they surely get it where MLS doesn`t. Regular Quebec City vs Montreal CPL are automatic sellouts! The hate between those cities transcends sports and a CPL Quebec City playing against a CPL Montreal downtown team would create instant magic. Those 2 teams due to the local politics would try their best to develop elite Quebec players, preferably locally and go at it like it`s war.
• Local content: Quebec being the most nationalistic province in the country, local stars like Patrice Bernier (seeing less minutes) and Olivier Occean would instantly make the team loved by the locals. Drogba is gone after this year and Impact are going more and more after Italians and South America outside of the Americans they have on the team. Where it`s hard to give minutes to Quebec players on the team, a Montreal CPL would most likely start them.
• TV Contract: A Quebec City team would most likely be covered by Quebecor`s TVA sports who are already covering the Montreal Impact. I could see their rival RDS going after the CPL Montreal team and by default trying to outbid each other for the rights to CPL as a whole. TSN would be interested to broadcast CPL Montreal for West Island English Viewers. That`s a good thing for the league.
• Ownership: Quebecor for Quebec City or the Montreal Canadiens & Molson Family for CPL Montreal?

So in conclusion, I got convinced last night that a downtown CPL Montreal team with a rivalry with Quebec City and Ottawa would indeed work. Montreal Metro area is half the province of Quebec, so there`s definitely room for another team.

So now that we all agree that CPL Toronto can work, and hopefully I made good arguments for a CPL Montreal, can someone from BC make the case for Surrey?

Thank you

[Kent]

On 21/09/2016 at 0:42 PM, ted said:

I will include Surrey as they will face similar - but I believe lesser - challenges to Toronto but having a team in BC will make more impact for the league as a whole. I also think that the larger market in Surrey and proximity to regional media gives it the edge over Victoria for the initial round.

Ansem, this is the most justification given for an independent Vancouver team that is already in this thread. I'm sure you've already read it but I thought I'd highlight it.

P.S. I couldn't figure out how to quote two people in one response. I wanted to quote Ansem's question. Oh well.

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Kent said:

Ansem, this is the most justification given for an independent Vancouver team that is already in this thread. I'm sure you've already read it but I thought I'd highlight it.

P.S. I couldn't figure out how to quote two people in one response. I wanted to quote Ansem's question. Oh well.

Thanks man!

CPL definitely needs Surrey-Vancouver, Toronto and Downtown Montreal to start.