Canadian Premier League

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

2 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

As long as this saga is, in fact, coming to an end.  Getting sick of the constant waiting game for this one.

Either do it or don't do it, but stop wasting everyone's time.

Meh.  Obviously I want to hear an announcement ASAP as well, but at the same time, I see no problem with letting the hype build and the fans spread the idea before announcing.  

Kinda like the whole, "make sure you always have a lineup at the door" mentality.

[Dub Narcotic]

The CSA needs to rescind the USL ban yesterday. It may still be possible for a Calgary to get something in for next year. Barring a miracle, this whole CPL debacle and D3 sanctioning ban has been a colossal mistake that has set Canadian club football back three years and counting.

[KidCanada]

4 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said:

The CSA needs to rescind the USL ban yesterday. It may still be possible for a Calgary to get something in for next year. Barring a miracle, this whole CPL debacle and D3 sanctioning ban has been a colossal mistake that has set Canadian club football back three years and counting.

Like when WSA Winnipeg actually wanted to join the USL but wasn't allowed to. 

[Rintaran]

14 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said:

The CSA needs to rescind the USL ban yesterday. It may still be possible for a Calgary to get something in for next year. Barring a miracle, this whole CPL debacle and D3 sanctioning ban has been a colossal mistake that has set Canadian club football back three years and counting.

I thought the USL ban only applied in provinces where there was an "equivalent" D3 (ie Quebec/Ontario)? Toronto & Montreal argued to get the exemption because L1O/PLSQ weren't up to USL par yet (and still aren't). I don't remember much trouble with Vancouver getting their USL reserve (but I was in Ontario at the time, which means limited West of Ontario news unless you actively pursue it).

I could see Victoria getting behind a USL-team, especially with a Van-Vic-Sea-Por rivalry. If Winnipeg & Calgary (maybe Thunder Bay) entered at the same time, it would be a nice round out of a northern division too. I would much prefer to see all these places as part of a CPL, but could accept a big influx of Canadian teams into the USL as a decent alternative.

 

*edited for tense correction & to add PLSQ

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

That's the PDL level you are thinking of. USL D3 has been consistently blocked with the sole exception of the three reserve teams. FC London and the Victoria Highlanders both expressed interest in moving up to D3 shortly before the moratorium was imposed and I think there was even talk of a team in Hamilton separate from the TFC attempt to have the Lynx there as their affiliated B team.

[Rintaran]

2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

That's the PDL level you are thinking of. USL D3 has been consistently blocked with the sole exception of the three reserve teams. FC London and the Victoria Highlanders both expressed interest in moving up to D3 shortly before the moratorium was imposed and I think there was even talk of a team in Hamilton separate from the TFC attempt to have the Lynx there as their affiliated B team.

Thanks for the clarification. I think I was confused because it was called USL PDL & USL Pro at the time, and only the first 3 letters stuck in my mind.

On a related note, any word on if Toronto is losing their PDL this year then? I believe the PDL exemption was supposed to expire at end of season.

[masster]

22 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

As long as this saga is, in fact, coming to an end.  Getting sick of the constant waiting game for this one.

Either do it or don't do it, but stop wasting everyone's time.

Can you please explain who exactly is wasting your time?

The CSA has not made any announcement or promises. All we know is that they are looking into things...as they should.

[rob.notenboom]

3 hours ago, masster said:

Can you please explain who exactly is wasting your time?

The CSA has not made any announcement or promises. All we know is that they are looking into things...as they should.

This is spot on. If none of the rumours had been reported no one would be anxiously waiting on anything. It's not like the CSA has come out and said 'We are going to be launching a league right away ... maybe next year' and then postponed it over and over. The only thing even remotely timeline-ish has been Mont Vic's statement that there would be a meeting on a potential business proposal and plan in the Fall. 

I would love for the CSA to come clean already. In fact, now that there are all of these rumours and half stories floating around, I think they look kind of bad by not addressing it. however, two things:

1) Perhaps they think that Mont Vic's statement (meeting in the Fall) is enough solid information and they simply think that people should keep their pants on.

2) Based on what happened with the Fury out of NASL rumour, I've started to think that maybe silence and secrecy actually is the best policy until they are ready to actually announce something.

[TRM]

6 hours ago, masster said:

Can you please explain who exactly is wasting your time?

The CSA has not made any announcement or promises. All we know is that they are looking into things...as they should.

The CSA have not allowed soccer teams to form and join existing leagues like USL Pro. That is a monumental waste of time. They have not made any promises but they have blocked expansion while producing absolutely nothing. Sorry but my patience ran out long long ago.

[Dub Narcotic]

Yes, what was the USL ban if not to create space for this league? Several of us have talked about the opportunity cost of this league proposal all throughout this thread. We could have had a Hamilton pro team three years ago now and almost certainly at least one more independent USL team.

[Gopherbashi]

 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

14 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

 

Whether you're yay or nay, some certainty/closure either way is something I think we all can agree on. 

I didn't know that the CSA was restricting USL teams(again, fairly new, excuse my ignorance) but I can see why people are upset.  Hopefully Dino is right and we have some sort of resolution by the end of the year.

 

[Shway]

The CPL doesn't make sense if if teams can play in the USL and make more economical sense to the organization, i.e Ottawa Fury 

While keeping the same rules that apply today (50% Canadian roster, 55% in the starting lineup etc.) That's where the CSA's control is.  

I think the opportunity to grab fans attention is in upgrading the only Canadian pro soccer thing we have in the Voyageurs Cup,  and not starting a brand new CFL....sorry CPL.

 

I'm bitter, and tired of waiting for some sorta validity.... And to think Mont Vic has not only the CSA, CPL to account for but the whole flicking federation....

 

I'm waiting on Jesus, so I guess I can wait on this shit. 

 

 

[Dub Narcotic]

If the MLS is going to drop player quotas I imagine the CSA will have to do the same for USL teams. There may be an exemption for the development teams.

[Macksam]

VPjr is in the know?

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, Dub Narcotic said:

If the MLS is going to drop player quotas

Is MLS and the USSF actually talking about doing this? IMO, there should be no quotas at all....8 at the most if any. 

[Shway]

3 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said:

If the MLS is going to drop player quotas I imagine the CSA will have to do the same for USL teams. There may be an exemption for the development teams.

 

Forgot about that key element to those rules "Development"team but there's no reason why the CSA couldn't implement the same idea at a higher percentage then the MLS reseve teams. 

 

Remember the quota dropped due to the disadvantage feeling (signing any Canadians to make the feel good quota.Elkinson, Melo etc) 

 

But with the competion level of the USL, you can get away with paying a 55% team of worth of Canadians capable of playing/developing at that level. 

The MLS reserve teams speak for themselves.... The average age is about 20? 21?22?....Sheeit I'm happy to see players like Davies, Hundaal, Chung, Tabala, getting these opportunities and proving themselves worthy against MLS former top 10 drafts picks, youth internationals, and American has beens. 

 

That's my perspective on why we should have more USL teams, to say the least. 

[masster]

On 9/4/2016 at 8:30 PM, TRM said:

The CSA have not allowed soccer teams to form and join existing leagues like USL Pro. That is a monumental waste of time. They have not made any promises but they have blocked expansion while producing absolutely nothing. Sorry but my patience ran out long long ago.

It is not a waste of time if that could have been a potential detriment to the greater good. Also, you are just assuming that this moratorium is still in affect. If it was, I don't think Calgary Foothills would be openly talking about USL. If it was, you wouldn't have Ottawa moving to USL.

Please list all of the examples of blocked expansion. The only one I have heard of through second hand sources is the potential move up by the Victoria Highlanders.

[Dub Narcotic]

We've already had the discussion about the blocked USL expansion bids in this thread at least twice.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

2 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said:

We've already had the discussion about the blocked USL expansion bids in this thread at least twice.

Hey man, we're busy, back off

[Macksam]

On September 2, 2016 at 4:49 PM, -Hammer- said:

Well...first off, there are very few owners who could pony up to the $100-200 million US expansion fee that an MLS franchise touts, plus a cap that is twice the price of an NASL team. Also given Hunt and his group have the rights to TD Place, it's pretty much only him that could do that, and I don't think Hunt has that kind of capital.

Second, MLS has far more lucrative, tested markets down south that they are likely more eager to pursue then Ottawa. This is especially true since it is very clear they are chasing TV revenue as hard as they can and want to do anything they can to get a better TV deal. There simply isn't a lot of TV revenue to be had by Canadian expansion.

Third, simple timing. There is no way MLS without any marketing regarding a new franchise is going to have the team playing in 2017. There is way to much player movement that needs to be addressed before going ahead with that.

I'll agree impossible, no, but extremely unlikely we're going to see Ottawa (or any MLS Canadian franchise) any time soon.

I wouldn't consider the franchise fee a deterrent. It's not a sunk cost, it's an investment. If things don't work out, you can sell the franchise to someone else at what would be more than likely a higher value. 

[Ansem]

I'll sum the whole thing to this simple fact.

USSF has ZERO interest into growing the game in Canada. If Canadian markets can make "said league" more successful (MLS, NASL, USL), sure they will allow franchises but they will remain inflexible on Canadians being domestic players. USSF job is to grow talent within the USA, not Canada.

Either we grow a D3 model pegged on the CHL + CPL or we stop wasting our time and accept this simple fact...Canada will NEVER be competitive and make the Hex+WC unless there's divine intervention and I don't have time to seek out a voodoo priest to curse all our opponents.

Sorry to sound frustrated but this inferiority complex that's all too Canadian needs to be shed, especially the belief that we can't do anything without the Americans.

I believe in markets that have no professional sports in the summer to compete against the CPL will work. (Halifax, Victoria, Quebec City). Markets like Calgary and Edmonton would get more fans by quickly establishing this provincial rivalry). Markets like GTA, Southern Ontario, Ottawa and Hamilton have the population to support CFL and CPL). I would be careful with Winnipeg and Regina and do the marketing to create interest and demand before getting a team in those small markets that are huge fans of CFL. That's already 8 teams right there.

All expenses in Canadian dollars is not negligible. Travel costs would be lower except when having to fly coast to coast but any travel within the Quebec-Windsor corridor can be done by train to lower the costs.

CPL CAN WORK. We just need to avoid to repeat errors of the past and market it better...something that MLS is inconsistent at doing. (games on Saturday nights??? Most Americans have no clue about the CCL and what it represent).

• I for one was relieved at Winnipeg and Regina being left out. It's a smart move if you want to avoid risk. Competing with the very popular Bombers and Roughriders in those small markets are risky and time is needed to market the league to create a demand. Then you add those 2 markets as expansions down the road.
• Going to USL permanently screams of second or third best rated. That's a horrible marketing move in the long run. With the attendance that league gets, you're asking for Canadians to switch the TV off and not bother showing up. You can't grow a product only based on hardcore fans like us. You need to create the interest and attract new clients. USL is a poor choice as they are the "AHL" to the MLS. Newsflash, people care more about the CHL than AHL
• Marketing CPL as Canada 1st division (even though we know better) is smart marketing. Hardcore fans like us would know that we wouldn't be on par with MLS but new clients you're trying to draw needs to be sold on the quality of the product. Gery Goose Vodka is expensive as hell but hardly the best vodka around. However the marketing is brilliant. In a sport related exemple, why is the CHL drawing more people and interest than the AHL? Because the CHL has done a brilliant job at marketing the Memorial Cup as the top trophy in Canada after the Stanley Cup while nobody cares about the AHL Calder cup.
• Oh yeah, showing Canadian content in sports works. Canada is becoming more and more patriotic in sports and last summer games where people tuned in to watch sports we never ever watch on TV just to cheer Canadian athlete was phenomenal. Yeah, I watched the trampoline routine and it was awesome, haha!
• MLS highest TV ratings are when Canadians clubs are playing each other, same for the NHL. I get that Ottawa Fury lost money, but it's hard to care about teams and players you never heard off when there's no history, however, Canadian clubs with Canadian content always attracts more.
• It's recommended to avoid having matches on Saturday nights (really MLS?), and competing with the Jays and CFL. I think it can be realistically achieved in Canada

Just a few thoughts here and there. There's no way anyone will ever convince me that our salvation lies with the USSF

[Dub Narcotic]

Maybe it's best to split threads at this point.

[ironcub14]

On 2016-09-04 at 2:51 PM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

That's the PDL level you are thinking of. USL D3 has been consistently blocked with the sole exception of the three reserve teams. FC London and the Victoria Highlanders both expressed interest in moving up to D3 shortly before the moratorium was imposed and I think there was even talk of a team in Hamilton separate from the TFC attempt to have the Lynx there as their affiliated B team.

Could you or anybody here tell me where I could go to see the CSA or the OSA rulings and moratoriums on failed USL/PDL expansion bids in Canada from the past, or their current stance on this?

Is this the kind of stuff that shows up in the minutes for their AGMs or something like that? Or should I just start digging through the 75 pages of this thread... Cheers.

[matty]

Quick note from De Guzman. He told Sportsnet this last night

“I still want to be a part of this,” he said. “I still bleed red. This is my degree right here, Canadian football. And I still believe we’re going to go to major places. We’re going to eventually have our league. That’s going to be something that could definitely help us make a World Cup at some point, and I want to be a part of that.”