Canadian Premier League

[baulderdash77]

4 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The obvious question to ask before people project their favoured pet fantasy options onto this should be what does "first phase" mean exactly? Looks like weasel words to pretend something much less lofty is something it isn't. The second thing to note is it says "target date" rather than "launch date", and we all know this has always been two years away. Looks like somebody (John McGrane?) just doesn't want the dream to die and so the saga continues. If this hinders USL expansion into Canada it does a serious disservice to the sport in Canada.

I agree this wording isn't quite weasel words but more like carefully controlled words.  First phase doesn't mean launching a full 8 teams and a coast to coast league.

Everyone has heard they are in fairly advanced stages of due diligence.  This is an initial report that a major hurdle was passed IMO.  They should probably come public sooner rather than later officially with the details because of the speculation and soft leaks happening.

What we have heard it it's not a bolt on league.  We know that Hamilton is one of the teams and we've heard that probably Ottawa (Fury/ Red Blacks ownership) , Calgary ( Flames ownership)  and Winnipeg (Jets ownership) are involved.  Then there's been reports of lots of other potential cities but not ownership groups identified.

Phase 1 may be that they've convinced Edmonton to give up the NASL dream and its a 5 team league to start with and future markets  when ownership groups and stadiums are ready.  Don't be surprised if that's what we get instead of speculating about all kinds of smaller rumoured markets.

Those 5 metros are all mid to large cities with the magic combination of ownership, stadiums, sports culture and decent sized metro populations to draw from.  All the other markets need something to happen.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Thanks for the info. The problem is that the guy on twitter in Ottawa seemed very scathing about the whole thing, so Ottawa being a "probably" looks like a bit of a stretch at the moment. They seem to want to do USL with any Canadian angle being a bolt-on, and that appears to have been the posture for a while given he appears to have been told that the Duane Rollins rumours were wide of the mark ever since they first appeared.

Don't doubt groups like Calgary and Winnipeg will have kicked the tires a bit to see if it makes sense, but moving from a vague interest to a concrete commitment with cheques and legal documents signed is always the litmus test and that still only gets things to 4 with Ottawa, which isn't enough for a viable league, if the 3 MLS reserve teams are not going to be involved, which would be the obvious reason that people in Ottawa would see a bolt-on with some CSA supervision as a best case scenario. That bolt-on vs standalone issue might be why Steve Sandor posted the online article about there being two rival attempts to form a Canadian league with the "pie-in-the-sky" one undermining the credibility of the other.

My take would be after mulling it over a bit is that "first phase" was probably only the business plan rather than anything Edmonton related, but Edmonton may have decisions to make soon given the state the NASL is in. What will be interesting to watch is what happens in Ottawa with USL and whether the CSA actually does announce anything about a standalone league by the end of the year. I don't think they could do both those things without looking foolish, so as VPjr tweeted we will probably have a definitive answer by the end of the year on what the CSA's posture is moving forward.

[MtlMario]

Are you the guy who wanted to open a Pessimist club but then thought " NAW IT WILL NEVER WORK"?

[Rheo]

Really glad to see this going forward and curious to see the details.  Although seeing as I live there I don't see Windsor as an option since I've seen it mentioned.  I'd love it if it was but can't see it.

[Ansem]

It’s like someone said on the forum and I've been saying all along,

 

Using the USSF to help our program is like making 2 steps forward then hitting a wall like we did all those years with MLS. Did we produce Canadian players thanks to MLS? Yes. Has it produced results? No. We were terrible at Gold Cup and we’re back where we were in WCQ. That’s what USSF brought us so far. We get some good players but we aren't producing nearly enough to have the depth to go through a WCQ campaign. We shouldn't be like " oh we're screwed because that guy is hurt or isn't playing."  Sticking with USSF program means we'll keep hitting that wall. We've already plateaued and this is as good as it will get with the status quo. Miracles and luck will sometimes gets us through but nobody here wants that, right? 

 

I prefer CPL with baby steps but eventually reaching the goal to be at least as good as the USA. That’s what MLS has done for them over time. We’re trying to find shortcuts with a Canadian divisions in the USL and NASL with USSF rules,  while really, we should be starting from scratch like everyone else has had to do, , even if it means going through the growing pains but everyone else went through bad phases as well.

 

Canada is late, but it’s the only way to get consistent results in the future. A pyramid that's entirely Canadian to produce quality players to feed our CPL and National program. Consider having 3 Canadian teams in MLS as the cherry on the cake, but we need our own division 1 league being fed by Canadian Universities, Quebec's CEGEPs and a CHL style Division 3. 

 

Ever wondered why Haiti are better than us? Newsflash, despite their best players being in MLS and Europe (Mostly in the French League) , they have a Domestic League since 1937.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligue_Haïtienne

 

2 of their teams has won older version of the CONCACAF Champions league. Why are they better than us? They have something we don't. The depth to support their best players. I watched the Gold Cup and the US was lucky to beat them. They are WAY WAY better in terms of technical skills.

 

I'm just in disbelief about people holding on to the dream that the USSF is the only way to make it.

[baulderdash77]

Any rumoured location has to have the triangle of Ownership, Stadium, Market.  

A lot of the rumoured cities don't have those 3 things. There are certainly 5 markets with those 3 elements but I'm not sure about others.  

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Really glad to see this going forward and curious to see the details.  Although seeing as I live there I don't see Windsor as an option since I've seen it mentioned.  I'd love it if it was but can't see it.

If Detroit gets a MLS team, Windsor would be a very risky investment unless a CPL gets there before Detroit gets its MLS franchise.

[Rheo]

4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

If Detroit gets a MLS team, Windsor would be a very risky investment unless a CPL gets there before Detroit gets its MLS franchise.

It's not a Detroit thing.  If they get an MLS team they're going to have a hard enough time with the DCFC supporters lol

It's a Windsor thing to me.  Living here I don't see the stadium. The university one is nice but small (holds 2000).  No clue if there's an owner that would be willing to pony up the money it would take.  And who knows what the support level would be.  I went to one Windsor Stars game and it was pretty empty.  I don't think the Spits have drawn much since their big runs a few years ago when the new arena opened.  Don't get me wrong I'd love to see it but just think there are way better options in the country.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

48 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Ever wondered why Haiti are better than us? Newsflash, despite their best players being in MLS and Europe (Mostly in the French League) , they have a Domestic League since 1937.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligue_Haïtienne

We had one up and running as early as 1926 that ran continuously until 1997.

Maybe the main difference with Haiti (not sure they really are better than us) could be that soccer is their main sport and they can play it 12 months a year, while hockey is the most popular sport in Canada and the Canadian winter limits the number of months that soccer can sensibly be played outdoors?

 

[Ansem]

8 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

We had one up and running as early as 1926 that ran continuously until 1997.

Maybe the main difference with Haiti (not sure they really are better than us) could be that soccer is their main sport and they can play it 12 months a year, while hockey is the most popular sport in Canada and the Canadian winter limits the number of months that soccer can sensibly be played outdoors?

 

They are indeed better than us, both on ranking and on the field. Also, they follow FIFA scheduling. They could use better coaching but in term of skills and keeping the ball, we're not at their level

 

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

If Detroit gets a MLS team, Windsor would be a very risky investment unless a CPL gets there before Detroit gets its MLS franchise.

I don't think so. MLS isn't a league Canadians will cross the border to see like the NHL or NFL. If the Windsor club is done right, I wouldn't worry about any Detroit based MLS team.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said:

Any rumoured location has to have the triangle of Ownership, Stadium, Market.  

A lot of the rumoured cities don't have those 3 things. There are certainly 5 markets with those 3 elements but I'm not sure about others.  

The viable markets for NASL level budgets that merit a CFL-sized stadium are Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and at a push maybe Quebec City, despite it never having been a soccer hotbed given the relative lack of recent immigration. I don't see how this happens unless ambitions are downsized considerably from what has been rumoured and away from NASL-scale budgets to something close to semi-pro, so that smaller cities like London, Victoria, Halifax can also be considered, or Whitecaps II, TFC II and FC Montreal are factored in as part of a bolt-on. Are the Ticats seriously expecting investors in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal to emerge, who will actively compete against the MLS franchises?

[shermanator]

Although I'm sure some will just use this article to bash Floro's lineup and roster choices, he discusses the criticality of a domestic league for improving the national team. He mentions holding camps outside of FIFA dates (because the players will be close by), and lack of minutes for national team players abroad.

http://aftn.ca/frustrated-by-a-thousand-impediments-benito-floros-desire-for-a-canadian-league-is-stronger-than-ever/

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Although I'm sure some will just use this article to bash Floro's lineup and roster choices, he discusses the criticality of a domestic league for improving the national team. He mentions holding camps outside of FIFA dates (because the players will be close by), and lack of minutes for national team players abroad.

http://aftn.ca/frustrated-by-a-thousand-impediments-benito-floros-desire-for-a-canadian-league-is-stronger-than-ever/

I remember when Floro arrived, he said that MLS was key, probably because he didn't fully understand the limitations of being involved with the USSF was to the Canadian program. This article reflects that he has a better understanding of the unique Canadian reality.

“I consider, in my opinion, that players are increasing their level,” Floro said. “But not enough to go with Honduras or Mexico. When I arrived here, the similar level was good. But it is difficult to [improve] that without a league.

“With a lot of [our] players around the world, the majority of them are not starters. Some are important but they have no club. So this is a lot of impediments you put in our hands.”

“It’s not a difficult question, but a question that needs a lot of time to explain,” Floro said. “There are two important matters. One of them is that there is not a league. A Canadian league where the majority of the players in these teams are Canadian players. So it is the big problem.

“The other is that if we don’t have a good league, first division, second division, third division, it means that players don’t have the habit to make a strong pressing. To do things like immediately recover the possession of the ball. This is a level of competitiveness. This is not the problem of the CSA. It’s Canada does not have a league.

“El Salvador, Honduras, Mexico, can have camps with players who are playing [there],” Floro said. “They can make clinics between weeks. With our team, it’s impossible to do that. Impossible, because there is no league, Canadian league. The teams outside Canada are not going to allow us to make a [camp] three days between Sunday and Sunday.

“This is very important when the coach can teach players how to do a very good free kick, a very good corner, a tactical matter. But in Canada, it is impossible. They arrive for the FIFA days, they have two days of training, but it’s not enough to progress more or faster. So it is very difficult for Canada, but I consider for that, our players, the CSA, are doing everything.”

To highlight the problems Canada face in this regard, Floro held up the example of the Canadian U23 side that failed to qualify for this year’s Olympics in Rio. As far as he’s concerned, the failure to qualify did not come down to on the pitch reasons, but more so outside factors.

“The Canadian Olympic team, for me, is a very good team,” Floro said. “But one of them is playing at a university in the United States, and they don’t allow us to have the player. [Cyle] Larin is playing in MLS and they don’t allow us to have him.

“We have at least six players, starting players, that were not possible to have them to the play the Olympics. If we had all the players, I can assure you we’d have been in Rio. It’s a lot of impediments, but this demonstrates that the way is slowly, but this is the way. Look for a Canadian league. It’s important. The most important.”

I for one have questioned Floro selection many time but I doubt Conte would do any better with Canada under these circumstances. Fire Floro? Sure and then what???

Like I will keep saying, we need a Canadian League. Period.

I disagree with the article claiming that it would be hard to attract players.

• There are so many International Canadians that are unattached and not starting around the world. Bring them on salaries comparable to NASL or better.
• As for Canadians playing in USL and NASL, a comparable salary to NASL for the good ones and something more than USL should convince them to jump. The main argument of course is them starting most games instead of being on the bench.
• I don't expect Canadians in top leagues and MLS to jump to CPL, of course not unless they really are barely seeing the pitch, but there's no reason for CPL to not completely poach NASL and USL of Canadian talents (except the big 3 academies since those players are hoping to get to the big club)
• We had that talk at work and finding quality DPs that are affordable is totally realistic. The pool of players in Central and South America looking for opportunities is huge. Scouting will be key for the CPL. We have to be prepare for CPL to go down the MLS route the first few years, end of career veterans might be the 1st batch of DPs.
• CPL won't get the best players off the bat, but how many million players out there are looking for a club at a professional level? We'll have to live for a while with the low quality of Canadian players but good scouting of international players and DPs could compensate to a point.

Also, who can argue that if you strip some MLS clubs of their DP, the quality of play drops to the point of making your eyes bleed?

 

[ray]

25 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Although I'm sure some will just use this article to bash Floro's lineup and roster choices, he discusses the criticality of a domestic league for improving the national team. He mentions holding camps outside of FIFA dates (because the players will be close by), and lack of minutes for national team players abroad.

http://aftn.ca/frustrated-by-a-thousand-impediments-benito-floros-desire-for-a-canadian-league-is-stronger-than-ever/

I don't think Benito needs to convince anyone.  The need for and benefits of a domestic pro league have never been in question; Only the degree to which the the investors, venues and fans exist for the initial start-up and long-term prospects of the league.

[Ansem]

Also, CSA should aggressively try to convince good foreign players who were never capped by their own country to get a Canadian passport to play for Canada.

example: Ignacio Piatti from Argentina now playing for Montreal Impact

[matty]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Also, CSA should aggressively try to convince good foreign players who were never capped by their own country to get a Canadian passport to play for Canada.

example: Ignacio Piatti from Argentina now playing for Montreal Impact

I've been wondering if that's what's going to happen with Laba

[Futballer]

MLS commissioner Interview on the Sport Network .

I am guessing this interview is related to  MLS Canada getting worried about the Canadian Premier League Starting  up in 2018 and the progress it has made through sourcing investors Secretly. 

TSN has knowledge of the CPL for several years now as they have received offers to carry CPL games and  has yet to respond as TSN feels the League offer is above their  Budget.

 http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/video/garber-wants-more-growth-in-canada~946831

My response to the video is that the MLS has finally taken the Canadian Premier League as a Legitimate Competition.

Comment on Toronto Montreal Vancouver been more Nationally Successful is somewhat interesting while these teams are quite successful in their market. Interesting comment isnt it !, seems to me they actually want Toronto montreal Vancouver to fully outfit the Canadian National Men's Teams with players.

  

[shermanator]

Garber (and Peterson for that matter) has been saying for years they want bigger growth in Canada, or that they need to do better in Canada. Let's be honest here, they don't give a crap about Canada.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

I don't see how the second part of that logically follows on from the first. If they didn't care about the Canadian marketplace they wouldn't have expanded there in the first place.

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Garber (and Peterson for that matter) has been saying for years they want bigger growth in Canada, or that they need to do better in Canada. Let's be honest here, they don't give a crap about Canada.

Bingo, all they want is the revenues and exposure. MLS could care less about Canada and it's national program

[shermanator]

3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

I don't see how the second part of that logically follows on from the first. If they didn't care about the Canadian marketplace they wouldn't have expanded there in the first place.

Simple. They care about having Canadian money in the league, but they don't care about Canadian soccer.

[Rheo]

3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

I don't see how the second part of that logically follows on from the first. If they didn't care about the Canadian marketplace they wouldn't have expanded there in the first place.

They care in as much as they've locked up the three biggest markets and an imprint in general through TV.  It's about making money and not growing the game here.  If it does grow then that's fine but it's not their bottom line.  They'd of found a way to make Canadians domestic for the entire league if it was important to them or if the US federation didn't fight them on it.

[Rheo]

As we all answer the same general thing at the same time lol

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Just now, shermanator said:

Simple. They care about having Canadian money in the league, but they don't care about Canadian soccer.

That's a frankly bizarre statement given they need soccer to succeed in a Canadian context to be able to get that Canadian money. The academy programs and three USL teams are packed with Canadian players and that can only be a positive thing for the CMNT down the road. The success of MLS as a business model has made all that possible.