BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 A decade later with a USSF rather than a CSA sanctioned league. Alan Rothenberg visited Toronto to try to get a Toronto team into MLS at launch. Do you think the recent demise of the CSL had anything other than a chilling effect on any corporate type like Richard Peddie deciding to try to convince a board of directors that investing in pro soccer would be a good move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 57 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: A decade later with a USSF rather than a CSA sanctioned league. Alan Rothenberg visited Toronto to try to get a Toronto team into MLS at launch. Do you think the recent demise of the CSL had anything other than a chilling effect on any corporate type like Richard Peddie deciding to try to convince a board of directors that investing in pro soccer would be a good move? The CSA was literally MIA since the 80s. Have to look at things in the right context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Really? They were trying to start a new league 7 years after the original CSL folded called CUSL. It got nowhere and the APSL teams in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal didn't want to be involved, because once you mess things up once, you don't get taken seriously the next time around. It has taken 25 years to get to the point that another CSA sanctioned coast-to-coast league might actually happen. If they mess things up again by ploughing on regardless to appease the Totera types even when they know the level of investment required to make it work isn't there, then the whole cycle will repeat. Actions have consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauder01 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 15 hours ago, zen said: The only thing we can really discuss at this point is what can we as supporters do to help the league grow, and in my opinion that goes beyond forming supporters groups. I think supporters group members should go to the community clubs, support rep teams at games, and sell the league in those venues. i.e. supporters in Hamilton should get in touch with Hamilton Sparta, Hamilton United etc. you start supporting grass roots, and you'll see how all those players and parents turn out to games. Go to sport bars, events, community events etc. wherever you can go to sell the league and your team to people. Right now our ability to do this is only limited by the lack of knowledge about which markets there will be teams in. IMO, I've been trying to logically view/contribute to this debate. I don't think CPL is ideal, but barring major screw ups it will be what we have to work with, and at least that's better than what we have now. There are a lot of things that can stop this league in it's tracks, and I don't think anyone should dismiss BTBB out of hand, or have any grand illusions of what this league is going to be. But, we need to do whatever we can to make sure it does succeed. I think doing what I suggested above is where it starts, it's not just the club that should engage the community, the supporters should as well. This guy. This guy right here - he gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 4 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Really? They were trying to start a new league 7 years after the original CSL folded called CUSL. It got nowhere and the APSL teams in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal didn't want to be involved, because once you mess things up once, you don't get taken seriously the next time around. It has taken 25 years to get to the point that another CSA sanctioned coast-to-coast league might actually happen. If they mess things up again by ploughing on regardless to appease the Totera types even when they know the level of investment required to make it work isn't there, then the whole cycle will repeat. Actions have consequences. Yes really. The CSA has been nothing short than an embarrassment since the 80s. Montagliani brought much needed competence and coherence into that organization. And would you look at that, he's on the verge of succeeding at delivering a coast to coast national league...something his incompetent predecessors couldn't/didn't care to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Marc said: I think that's exactly what he's trying to do Macksam, utilize evidence to prove his point. Let me rephrase, it's like he wants to bring up every historical occurrence, no matter how little relevance it holds, of soccer failing in this country. His last genius tidbit is like me going "Let's remember Vacouver's MLS launch back in 2011, pretty successful right? Leave the past in the past." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: A decade later with a USSF rather than a CSA sanctioned league. Alan Rothenberg visited Toronto to try to get a Toronto team into MLS at launch. Do you think the recent demise of the CSL had anything other than a chilling effect on any corporate type like Richard Peddie deciding to try to convince a board of directors that investing in pro soccer would be a good move? NPSL was an American indoor league, not a Canadian one. 53 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Really? They were trying to start a new league 7 years after the original CSL folded called CUSL. It got nowhere and the APSL teams in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal didn't want to be involved, because once you mess things up once, you don't get taken seriously the next time around. It has taken 25 years to get to the point that another CSA sanctioned coast-to-coast league might actually happen. If they mess things up again by ploughing on regardless to appease the Totera types even when they know the level of investment required to make it work isn't there, then the whole cycle will repeat. Actions have consequences. Again, you don't know what level of investment is there when it comes to this. Stop passing off your ardent opinions as facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: A decade later with a USSF rather than a CSA sanctioned league. Alan Rothenberg visited Toronto to try to get a Toronto team into MLS at launch. Do you think the recent demise of the CSL had anything other than a chilling effect on any corporate type like Richard Peddie deciding to try to convince a board of directors that investing in pro soccer would be a good move? NPSL was an American indoor league, not a Canadian one. 53 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Really? They were trying to start a new league 7 years after the original CSL folded called CUSL. It got nowhere and the APSL teams in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal didn't want to be involved, because once you mess things up once, you don't get taken seriously the next time around. It has taken 25 years to get to the point that another CSA sanctioned coast-to-coast league might actually happen. If they mess things up again by ploughing on regardless to appease the Totera types even when they know the level of investment required to make it work isn't there, then the whole cycle will repeat. Actions have consequences. Again, you don't know what level of investment is there when it comes to this. Stop passing off your ardent opinions as facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 53 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: If they mess things up again by ploughing on regardless to appease the Totera types even when they know the level of investment required to make it work isn't there, then the whole cycle will repeat. Actions have consequences. I agree completely with this. The difference is that I am waiting to see who the owners are before I pass judgement and you are certain that they are fly by night hustlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 4 minutes ago, Alex D said: I agree completely with this. The difference is that I am waiting to see who the owners are before I pass judgement and you are certain that they are fly by night hustlers. OMG no one is claiming CPL to be the second coming of the MLS. The attendances being rumored are pretty conservative downscaling the scope of the league already. Hell, I don't want CPL to be like MLS except for taking things that works like single entity and deep pocket owners. In think what Denmark and Sweden are doing is ideal has they have attendances between 7k to 9k on average and they are hockey fans like we are. Lots of us optimistic fans are also realists but BBTB paints us as extremists and unrealistic delusional while the idea of something resembling what the Danish or Swedish have done gradually is more within reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 So just to encapsulate the last few pages of this thread: Some people: "Alot has changed and this could be a huge success!" Other people: "Not as much as you think and we should still be wary" Both sides have merit. I think frankly we need some real news to get an idea of how or why it would be different this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Think the upcoming announcement later today about the NASL could be important to what unfolds next as I suspect that league was expected to fold this winter due to USL's push for D2 status leaving a clear niche for the "CPL" at D2 level beneath MLS in a Canadian context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmersFC Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 @lazlo_80 Does anyone have any idea when a public CPL league announcement is going to be made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 minute ago, FarmersFC said: @lazlo_80 Does anyone have any idea when a public CPL league announcement is going to be made? there's nothing yet, which has been another point of contention between the two disagreeing factions on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 17 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Think the upcoming announcement later today about the NASL could be important to what unfolds next as I suspect that league was expected to fold this winter due to USL's push for D2 status leaving a clear niche for the "CPL" at D2 level beneath MLS in a Canadian context. CPL would be D1 within the CSA MLS is D1 within the USSF The 3 Canadian clubs plays in a USSF league with the CSA sanctioning I can be just as stubborn as you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 13 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said: there's nothing yet, which has been another point of contention between the two disagreeing factions on this board. ...and we had been led to believe it was going to be in December. The latest from the CSA president was a slightly odd interview in which he stated no name had been agreed upon for the league despite CPL having been trademarked and widely used in the media in recent months and Paul Beirne who had been reported as having been hired by the league was described as representing a swathe of the ownership. Personally, I am mildly encouraged by that in terms of the CSA insisting on getting all the ducks in a row before proceeding on sanctioning anything, but suspect Victor Montagliani will be tempted to rush things through in the next couple of months as he is about to leave the CSA for CONCACAF presidency and wants to be the one in the limelight rather than Paul Beirne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 28 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said: So just to encapsulate the last few pages of this thread: Some people: "Alot has changed and this could be a huge success!" Other people: "Not as much as you think and we should still be wary" Both sides have merit. I think frankly we need some real news to get an idea of how or why it would be different this time. If you want to break it down by demographics, albeit not perfectly, it could go something like this: Baby Boomers: cynical about the league Gen X: neutral Millenials: Optimistic Gen Tech/Founders: Will retweet, Facebook Like or Snapchat a story about how cool it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 12 minutes ago, Macksam said: If you want to break it down by demographics, albeit not perfectly, it could go something like this: Baby Boomers: cynical about the league Gen X: neutral Millenials: Optimistic Gen Tech/Founders: Will retweet, Facebook Like or Snapchat a story about how cool it is. That sinking feeling when you realize you are no longer in the youngest named generation It's all down hill from here boys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 This was a wonderful post to read on the Wpg Supporters Group fb page. Thought I'd share it - Won't be able to make it to the first meeting as I will be in Guatemala. But I'm really excited about the prospect of pro football in Winnipeg and I'd love to be there on the front lines with you lads when the time comes! I've grown up dreaming of living in a city with a professional team to support and now we have the chance to build that football culture in our own backyard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 29 minutes ago, Macksam said: If you want to break it down by demographics, albeit not perfectly, it could go something like this: Baby Boomers: cynical about the league Gen X: neutral Millenials: Optimistic Gen Tech/Founders: Will retweet, Facebook Like or Snapchat a story about how cool it is. I'm a boomer and optimistic but I hardly act my age lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grande Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 hour ago, FarmersFC said: @lazlo_80 Does anyone have any idea when a public CPL league announcement is going to be made? Sometime between tomorrow and the heat death of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Ansem said: CPL would be D1 within the CSA MLS is D1 within the USSF The 3 Canadian clubs plays in a USSF league with the CSA sanctioning I can be just as stubborn as you are Can we just call a truce on this line of argument as this is essentially an argument of semantics vs. league level. To Ansem's point this will be considered D1 in Canada To BBTB's point even with a 1.5 M cap (as reported) the teams in this league will likely be finding most it's talent from the potential vacuum left by the collapse of the NASL or be forced to compete directly with it for players moreso than compete with the MLS for players. Even if it is getting better players than NASL attracts, with the reported cap level there would still be a massive gulf in quality level between it and MLS (which the average joe see as the top league in canada) Yes it will be the D1 in Canada. And yes, it will likely be a D2 calibre league to begin with in the context of the current level of quality people are familiar with in Canada. You both are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hammer- Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Says someone who has probably never been through having the team in their city in a Canadian coast-to-coast league that they watched consistently in every home game fail spectacularly and fold twice in the space of three years. What effect do you think that sort of thing has if someone comes along later and tries to do the job properly? The well gets poisoned basically, so that a lot of fans and sponsors will steer well clear the next time around. Toje reminded us recently on another subforum of a good example of a long forgotten NPSL franchise in Toronto that had a strong roster in what at the time was still a reasonably strong league that was just ignored as people had been burned too many time previously: Once again, the well gets poisoned and we still have the MLS teams and we are back to where we are right now, or are you somehow implying that if the CanPL comes around and fails, that is going to somehow cause support for the existing MLS teams to evapourate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 4 hours ago, Ansem said: OMG no one is claiming CPL to be the second coming of the MLS. The attendances being rumored are pretty conservative downscaling the scope of the league already. Hell, I don't want CPL to be like MLS except for taking things that works like single entity and deep pocket owners. In think what Denmark and Sweden are doing is ideal has they have attendances between 7k to 9k on average and they are hockey fans like we are. Lots of us optimistic fans are also realists but BBTB paints us as extremists and unrealistic delusional while the idea of something resembling what the Danish or Swedish have done gradually is more within reach. I'm not sure what that had to do with what I said. I agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 7 hours ago, grande said: Sometime between tomorrow and the heat death of the universe. So 50/50 that it's before the USSF D2 decision then. AWKWARD EDIT: THE HEAT DEATH OF THE UNIVERSE IS UPON US Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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