Alphonso Davies

[Markoaleks]

True 

that is the ideal 

[RS]

4 hours ago, Keegan said:

 

No they didn’t spend that but he is an investment that is now worth... check that 20 million.  So essentially MLS gets the final say on as you say the millions of dollars spent by Vancouver through the years trying to develop these players.. that’s messed up.

I was actually saying that it's MLS that spends millions of dollars on the players.

Vancouver is going to get millions of dollars in a few hours, so I don't think they'd agree that the safety net provided my MLS is messed up in this case. Let's see what the team does with the money.

[BrennanFan]

I can actually fully enjoy this transfer because the kid is capped! Hopefully this starts a trend in which our next generation of CMNT players make an impact at home, get international exposure via CMNT caps, and then go on to conquer the world. 

With this transfer to Bayern, we have come full circle.

[Keegan]

16 minutes ago, RS said:

I was actually saying that it's MLS that spends millions of dollars on the players.

Vancouver is going to get millions of dollars in a few hours, so I don't think they'd agree that the safety net provided my MLS is messed up in this case. Let's see what the team does with the money.

Okay but those millions pale in comparison to what Vancouver has spent on their residency so why should that grant MLS a (presumed) right of refusal on a transfer they gain nothing from? What’s the end game here?  Why not have MLS teams pay players AND keep their transfer fees to avoid conflicts of interest?  I just don’t see what is positive about it.

[Dominic94]

The most important takeaway here is that it’s done. Canada will climb the ranks, the dark days are behind us.

 

at 17, Davies has already inspired the next Davies... someone out there is dreaming of being like him or better, and now we know it’s possible. Same with Ballou, even if both weren’t born and raised, they still showed that there’s a way from grassroots to Europe. Good times are ahead, congrats to Phonso.

[matty]

I just so a FB notification about what are the topics of tonight's The National and Davies is one of them

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, lazlo_80 said:

https://twitter.com/KristianJack/status/1021793672894001152

Look at all those comments, where do these soccer fans willing to banter about a transfer fee come from?

[LeoH037]

Given the potential squad Canada might have for the next Gold Cup, what do you guys reckon is a credible expectation? Final or semi-final appearance?

[Keegan]

6 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

Given the potential squad Canada might have for the next Gold Cup, what do you guys reckon is a credible expectation? Final or semi-final appearance?

Can’t tell you until we see the call up list unfortunately but if we had a full squad, which won’t happen, I’d expect semi final.  That’s being realistic too - talent wise with a full team we are top 4/5 in concacaf easily and we are on the younger side.

Give me the 2017 Gold Cup team + Larin, Hutchinson, Henry, Millar, Wotherspoon (maybe), Johnson.. id be positive about our chances but also in 2011 we had a similarly talented team that flunked.

[LeoH037]

2 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Can’t tell you until we see the call up list unfortunately but if we had a full squad, which won’t happen, I’d expect semi final.  That’s being realistic too - talent wise with a full team we are top 4/5 in concacaf easily and we are on the younger side.

Fair enough, but say all our heavy hitters (i.e. Hoilett, Larin, Arfield, Davies, Osorio, Kaye, Piette, Hutchinson if he's still playing, Cavallini, Adekugbe, James, etc...) are healthy, in form, and accept the call up

[Keegan]

10 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

Fair enough, but say all our heavy hitters (i.e. Hoilett, Larin, Arfield, Davies, Osorio, Kaye, Piette, Hutchinson if he's still playing, Cavallini, Adekugbe, James, etc...) are healthy, in form, and accept the call up

Sorry, I edited just to answer this hypothetical.  Yes, I’d expect semi final but depends on draw etc. I wasn’t happy with quarters in 2017 but that was due to our opponent.. I wouldn’t be unhappy to lose to Mexico in the QF for example.

We are a top 4/5 team in concacaf when healthy that’s my answer.  And in time we can be better than Costa Rica too.  Our rightful spot is #3 in this region.

I feel like (relatively before anyone freaks out) USA/Mexico are Germany, Spain, Italy level relative to concacaf while us and Costa Rica are potentially like a Belgium/England and Panama, Honduras are those gritty teams ala Serbia, Croatia etc who can beat anyone on their day.

[Vince193]

15 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Sorry, I edited just to answer this hypothetical.  Yes, I’d expect semi final but depends on draw etc. I wasn’t happy with quarters in 2017 but that was due to our opponent.. I wouldn’t be unhappy to lose to Mexico in the QF for example.

We are a top 4/5 team in concacaf when healthy that’s my answer.  And in time we can be better than Costa Rica too.  Our rightful spot is #3 in this region.

I feel like (relatively before anyone freaks out) USA/Mexico are Germany, Spain, Italy level relative to concacaf while us and Costa Rica are potentially like a Belgium/England and Panama, Honduras are those gritty teams ala Serbia, Croatia etc who can beat anyone on their day.

There is nothing in our recent history, results-wise to indicate we are a top 5 nation in CONCACAF.

[RS]

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

Okay but those millions pale in comparison to what Vancouver has spent on their residency so why should that grant MLS a (presumed) right of refusal on a transfer they gain nothing from? What’s the end game here?  Why not have MLS teams pay players AND keep their transfer fees to avoid conflicts of interest?  I just don’t see what is positive about it.

Uh, no they don't. MLS literally pays the full salaries for every non-DP (and non DTAM) player in the league and has for 23 seasons.

It's simple: The players' contracts belong to MLS, therefore they get a say in player transactions (they tend to just rubber stamp things handled by the teams, but there have been instances of 'meddling'). The central nature of the contracts is what kept the league afloat for the first two decades.

I'm not advocating for or against it, I'm simply trying to get you to understand how it works. No inside info, but I suspect there will be some sort of central contract control in the CPL as well, which will cause a meltdown here if/when that becomes public.

[Keegan]

14 minutes ago, RS said:

Uh, no they don't. MLS literally pays the full salaries for every non-DP (and non DTAM) player in the league and has for 23 seasons.

It's simple: The players' contracts belong to MLS, therefore they get a say in player transactions (they tend to just rubber stamp things handled by the teams, but there have been instances of 'meddling'). The central nature of the contracts is what kept the league afloat for the first two decades.

I'm not advocating for or against it, I'm simply trying to get you to understand how it works. No inside info, but I suspect there will be some sort of central contract control in the CPL as well, which will cause a meltdown here if/when that becomes public.

You clearly don’t understand how it works my friend and you’re resorting to being condescending. MLS is single entity yes, so technically they pay salaries but to think Vancouver is off the hook is just ignorant.  Find me anything that says MLS pays salaries and the franchises don’t and I’ll gladly concede.

Why else wouldn’t every team spend to the cap and spend on DPs?  So you’re saying that a team with no DPs is doing it because they literally want to pay zero salary?

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, Dominic94 said:

 

at 17, Davies has already inspired the next Davies... someone out there is dreaming of being like him or better, and now we know it’s possible. Same with Ballou, even if both weren’t born and raised, they still showed that there’s a way from grassroots to Europe.

Its a little too premature to say this.  In both cases (Davies and Tabla) their careers havent even started yet.  They will get mainstream attention when they suit up and are in the starting lineup for an important mid week game in late spring thats being televised in canada (eg.: champions league knock out stages or something similr).  Just like Hargreaves did by being in the starting lineup for BM in the UCL final.   Thats when we will be able to mention their names around the proverbial work place water cooler and not come accross like a soccer nerd.  

right now they are where they are because they are good prospects.  It doesnt mean that they are the finished products yet.  Davies may get loaned out to lowerprofile club  or he may get moved to half back. Or play for the b squad for a year.  We dont know.

This great news.  There is hope for us when we can say that we have players that interest clubs like this instead of clubs like QPR.  It gives us hope.  

[RS]

5 minutes ago, Keegan said:

You clearly don’t understand how it works my friend and you’re resorting to being condescending. MLS is single entity yes, so technically they pay salaries but to think Vancouver is off the hook is just ignorant.  Find me anything that says MLS pays salaries and the franchises don’t and I’ll gladly concede.

Why else wouldn’t every team spend to the cap and spend on DPs?  So you’re saying that a team with no DPs is doing it because they literally want to pay zero salary?

Are you seriously asking me these questions after telling me I clearly don't understand how it works?

(And I'm the condescending one...)

[C2SKI]

2 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

I can actually fully enjoy this transfer because the kid is capped! Hopefully this starts a trend in which our next generation of CMNT players make an impact at home, get international exposure via CMNT caps, and then go on to conquer the world. 

With this transfer to Bayern, we have come full circle.

I think his career is just getting started. He has still has lots to achieve

[Keegan]

2 minutes ago, RS said:

Are you seriously asking me these questions after telling me I clearly don't understand how it works?

(And I'm the condescending one...)

I’m asking you to verify what you’re telling me?  Is it not what you’re saying?  Please correct me if so.

[C2SKI]

51 minutes ago, Keegan said:

I feel like (relatively before anyone freaks out) USA/Mexico are Germany, Spain, Italy level relative to concacaf while us and Costa Rica are potentially like a Belgium/England and Panama, Honduras are those gritty teams ala Serbia, Croatia etc who can beat anyone on their day.

I hate that these comparisons still help. We need more exposure to our region. It's so much easier follow Europe, and South America to a certain extent.  

[RS]

17 minutes ago, Keegan said:

I’m asking you to verify what you’re telling me?  Is it not what you’re saying?  Please correct me if so.

It's fairly common knowledge that MLS pays all player salaries, except for the portion of DP contracts that are above the max salary. (For example, Giovinco's salary is listed at $7 million, and MLS pays $504,375 of that with TFC paying the rest. But for a non-DP like, say, Justin Morrow, the salary is completely covered by MLS).

This year they added discretionary TAM, which the teams could 'buy' with their own money. So there are more players that the clubs are directly paying now, but the overwhelming majority are paid by the league's central coffers.

It's all detailed in the MLS roster rules: https://www.mlssoccer.com/league/official-rules/mls-roster-rules-and-regulations

Key part is explained in the DP section:

The Designated Player Rule allows clubs to acquire up to three players whose total compensation and acquisition costs exceed the Maximum Salary Budget Charge, with the club bearing financial responsibility for the amount of compensation above each player's Salary Budget Charge. 

The implication of the above is that the clubs bear no financial responsibility for any player under the "Maximum Salary Budget Charge," which is every player except DPs and TAM (who are paid mostly by another central league pool of money).

Hope that helps. It's confusing af but that's North American sports.

[Keegan]

I’m sorry RS, but none of that states that or implies that.  Yes, of course MLS teams are responsible for excess salary over the cap I.e. DP salaries.  But where does it say the league pays salaries?  All that talks about is roster restrictions and cap rules.  Maybe you’re still right and it’s an obscure mls rule as per usual but it’s not there.

I agree with you that we were all told MLS pays salaries for years, and that wasn’t a lie but it wasn’t exactly truthful.  I believed the same thing.  It was “common knowledge” just like Clinton winning the election and Brexit not happening - but a lot of things we read aren’t real fortunately/unfortunately.  Especially when you have people who know nothing about football telling us how rules work when even football supporters can’t understand them.  

 

[Free kick]

Its always been my understanding as well, that when you sign a contract its with the league and not the clubs and hence its the league that pays the salaries.  In essence this is what the single entity concept is. 

[Keegan]

3 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Its always been my understanding as well, that when you sign a contract its with the league and not the clubs and hence its the league that pays the salaries.  In essence this is what the single entity concept is. 

We’re all agreed with that I think - it’s just the debate over whether franchises eat that salary some way or another, logically I believe they do.  I believe it may be based off revenue etc but at the end of the day you still pay those salaries and there’s no doubt you pay DP salaries.

[RS]

27 minutes ago, Keegan said:

I’m sorry RS, but none of that states that or implies that.  Yes, of course MLS teams are responsible for excess salary over the cap I.e. DP salaries.  But where does it say the league pays salaries?  All that talks about is roster restrictions and cap rules.  Maybe you’re still right and it’s an obscure mls rule as per usual but it’s not there.

I agree with you that we were all told MLS pays salaries for years, and that wasn’t a lie but it wasn’t exactly truthful.  I believed the same thing.  It was “common knowledge” just like Clinton winning the election and Brexit not happening - but a lot of things we read aren’t real fortunately/unfortunately.  Especially when you have people who know nothing about football telling us how rules work when even football supporters can’t understand them.  

 

Why would the rules explicitly state that the clubs bear financial responsibility for DP salaries above the max charge if they were also on the hook for the rest? Why include that explanation if the clubs were already paying more than that?

I really don't know what else to tell you. MLS pays all the players' salaries. Believe it or don't, it's not going to change anything.

This isn't a "fake news" thing, I took it directly from the MLS rulebook, and it certainly has nothing to do with political polling (???). It's literally the foundation of MLS' single entity, and has been since its inception.

[BrennanFan]

30 minutes ago, Keegan said:

I’m sorry RS, but none of that states that or implies that.  Yes, of course MLS teams are responsible for excess salary over the cap I.e. DP salaries.  But where does it say the league pays salaries?  All that talks about is roster restrictions and cap rules.  Maybe you’re still right and it’s an obscure mls rule as per usual but it’s not there.

I agree with you that we were all told MLS pays salaries for years, and that wasn’t a lie but it wasn’t exactly truthful.  I believed the same thing.  It was “common knowledge” just like Clinton winning the election and Brexit not happening - but a lot of things we read aren’t real fortunately/unfortunately.  Especially when you have people who know nothing about football telling us how rules work when even football supporters can’t understand them.  

 

Keegan, I think the problem is youre not seeing the league for what it really is: a joke.  It is intramural soccer.  Its just one big team called MLS.  Club ownership is not real, never has been.  The club owners are merely partners or shareholders in ONE CLUB called MLS.  Whenever an MLS "club" makes money, they keep a fraction and the rest goes to the MLS central bank account.  So when the league pays a player, its really all the club owners paying all the players in the league, together, so MLSE does pay for player salaries but only in a roundabout way.

As the league grows and makes more money, all the teams profit equally.  Because they are the league.  Its just one thing.