Canada announces preliminary roster for Gold Cup

[Lord Bob]

I think it is fair to question whether Piette deserves to be included, but I would certainly put him ahead of those you listed. First of all Wassey is not even the same type of player so I will leave that alone, but Alderson (who is the same age) has less NT experience and furthermore he is not even seeing the field in the North American third tier.

ynwa has addressed the "not even seeing the field in the American third tier" bit, but I must say that I don't think a good argument for calling up Piette over Alderson is "we've already called up Piette over Alderson." If Alderson is better than Piette then he should get the spot, "NT experience" or no.

(I don't know that he is. I rate Alderson but haven't seen Piette play outside of Canadian national team contexts.)

[Obinna]

Don't think it's a prima donna attitude. I think its a kid trying to secure his career in a volatile situation.

I am disappointed, but understanding with him deciding to earn his place with Nacional. If he can cement himself as a starter and score a lot of goals (and I think he can) it may be worth it. You have to wonder though, with us playing Mexico, a good game against them may have been nice exposure for him.

[Obinna]

ynwa has addressed the "not even seeing the field in the American third tier" bit, but I must say that I don't think a good argument for calling up Piette over Alderson is "we've already called up Piette over Alderson." If Alderson is better than Piette then he should get the spot, "NT experience" or no.

(I don't know that he is. I rate Alderson but haven't seen Piette play outside of Canadian national team contexts.)

The argument that Piette is already familiar with the set up is not a strong argument in isolation but when coupled with the fact that he has proven he is good enough at this level (which Alderson hasn't), it further supports the idea that Piette deserves a call over Alderson. Now I do believe in better, less experienced players getting a chance over more experienced ones, but this doesn't apply here. If it did, and Alderson was clearly a more promising player, then I would disregard the fact he has less experience with the NT, and support his inclusion. Just like I would support Porter over Ricketts.

[Grizzly]

^That's not true. Alderson is recovering from an injury and is now starting for a professional club. Wassey has been playing DM and had a fantastic season at level where Piette has played two matches.

http://www.transfermarkt.com/en/massih-wassey/leistungsdaten/spieler_40607.html

While it is a legitimate question whether Piette has done enough to warrant a call up, proposing Wassey as an alternative is ridiculous. He is a 25 year old career 4th/5th division player who two years ago got cut from the very team that Piette recently got promoted to, Fortuna Dusseldorf II.

[Grizzly]

ynwa has addressed the "not even seeing the field in the American third tier" bit, but I must say that I don't think a good argument for calling up Piette over Alderson is "we've already called up Piette over Alderson." If Alderson is better than Piette then he should get the spot, "NT experience" or no.

(I don't know that he is. I rate Alderson but haven't seen Piette play outside of Canadian national team contexts.)

The argument is not that we are calling him because he was called before, it is we are calling him because he looked pretty good when we called him before.

[Grizzly]

I am disappointed, but understanding with him deciding to earn his place with Nacional. If he can cement himself as a starter and score a lot of goals (and I think he can) it may be worth it. You have to wonder though, with us playing Mexico, a good game against them may have been nice exposure for him.

Cavallini does not need exposure, he is already at a good club. What he needs to do is win a starting place at that club so it is important he stays with them for preseason. He made the right decision both for himself and the Canadian national team. Miller as usual is clueless.

[youllneverwalkalone]

While it is a legitimate question whether Piette has done enough to warrant a call up, proposing Wassey as an alternative is ridiculous. He is a 25 year old career 4th/5th division player who two years ago got cut from the very team that Piette recently got promoted to, Fortuna Dusseldorf II.

I'd be more than happy to agree that players from 4th division Germany shouldn't be called to major tournaments if only this could standard could be applied to Piette.

[Grizzly]

I'd be more than happy to agree that players from 4th division Germany shouldn't be called to major tournaments if only this could standard could be applied to Piette.

Piette is a 19 year old signed to a major team and is getting experience and playing time to prepare him for first team action. Wassey is a career lower league player who is 25. How can you not see the huge difference between them?

[Keegan]

Piette is a 19 year old signed to a major team and is getting experience and playing time to prepare him for first team action. Wassey is a career lower league player who is 25. How can you not see the huge difference between them?

+1 and Piette is actually only 18... if we're going with a youth movement he's definitely gotta be at or near the top of the list of calls.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Piette is a 19 year old signed to a major team and is getting experience and playing time to prepare him for first team action. Wassey is a career lower league player who is 25. How can you not see the huge difference between them?

I can see a difference, maybe not quite as big as you say, in future potential. Yes. I agree. However major tournaments need to be about results on some basic level. I don't see how Colin Miller can speak of results out of one side of his mouth, while calling amateur players from the other.

A certain someone, whose user name rhymes with Jizzly, was highly critical of Yallop's decision to play Jaime Peters in WCQ in 2004. Why is this situation different?

[Blackdude]

A certain someone, whose user name rhymes with Jizzly, was highly critical of Yallop's decision to play Jaime Peters in WCQ in 2004. Why is this situation different?

Apples and Oranges. You're comparing a 17 year old kid playing in the biggest games Canada will play in 4 years to a 18 year old kid playing in a team that is aiming at being ready for the biggest games in 2, hopefully 3 years.

[Grizzly]

I can see a difference, maybe not quite as big as you say, in future potential. Yes. I agree. However major tournaments need to be about results on some basic level. I don't see how Colin Miller can speak of results out of one side of his mouth, while calling amateur players from the other.

A certain someone, whose user name rhymes with Jizzly, was highly critical of Yallop's decision to play Jaime Peters in WCQ in 2004. Why is this situation different?

WCQ and Gold Cup. How can you not see the huge difference between them?

If the Gold Cup ever becomes a serious contintental Championship played every 4 years (and not at the same time as the Hex) and with every country using their A team I would agree that we should only use our best players. With the current state of the Gold Cup I have no problem having a couple of young players there who may not deserve it completely on merit but who would benefit from the experience both in their own careers and becoming good future national team players. In WCQ unless we are playing early round minnows we should never have young undeserving players on the squad whether it was Piette or Peters.

I am not defending Miller's squad selection, indeed I think it is a shambles. However, I don't have a problem with having a couple of young players on the squad like Piette and it is not his selection that bothers me. Indeed for all the many failings of Mitchell and Hart they at least called our best players to the squad. With Miller we are back to the Yallop years of squads that don't make any sense and don't put our best possible team forward.

[Keegan]

WCQ and Gold Cup. How can you not see the huge difference between them?

If the Gold Cup ever becomes a serious contintental Championship played every 4 years (and not at the same time as the Hex) and with every country using their A team I would agree that we should only use our best players. With the current state of the Gold Cup I have no problem having a couple of young players there who may not deserve it completely on merit but who would benefit from the experience both in their own careers and becoming good future national team players. In WCQ unless we are playing early round minnows we should never have young undeserving players on the squad whether it was Piette or Peters.

I am not defending Miller's squad selection, indeed I think it is a shambles. However, I don't have a problem with having a couple of young players on the squad like Piette and it is not his selection that bothers me. Indeed for all the many failings of Mitchell and Hart they at least called our best players to the squad. With Miller we are back to the Yallop years of squads that don't make any sense and don't put our best possible team forward.

Care to elaborate on this? Miller has only been responsible for selecting 23 players from the 35 man list that was submitted earlier. Who would you have put on from that list who was available? It seems his hands were a bit tied, I personally would have called De Rosario in but I know you probably wouldn't have.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Apples and Oranges. You're comparing a 17 year old kid playing in the biggest games Canada will play in 4 years to a 18 year old kid playing in a team that is aiming at being ready for the biggest games in 2, hopefully 3 years.

More like mandarin oranges and clementines.

[Grizzly]

Care to elaborate on this? Miller has only been responsible for selecting 23 players from the 35 man list that was submitted earlier. Who would you have put on from that list who was available? It seems his hands were a bit tied, I personally would have called De Rosario in but I know you probably wouldn't have.

According to Miller in the interview in the Marc Weber article he made the decision on Bernier and DeRo so it sounds like he did have a lot of say on the 35 man list since Bernier was not even on the initial list. How can a guy who is having his second career year in a row and who has a great attitude to boot not even be on the 35 man list for this tournament? Bernier will probably be an MLS All-Star this year and possibly MVP for the current first place team in the East. Yet Miller can select benchwarmers for one of the worst teams in the league.

And I am not the biggest DeRo fan and not sure I would call him if we had everyone available but in a reduced player pool like this he would definitely be well ahead of JDG as a veteran to call especially in what looks like a very offensively challenged line up. DeRo has his flaws and bad habits but he still has some high level skills and I think he could teach some of the younger players a lot. JDG seems to play with no confidence now and is constantly doing the safe, non-creative, non-skill moves. There was a time when he had a lot more positive play in his game but other than very rare flashes you do not see this anymore. I do not see what a player playing like he currently is really brings to the team and how are young players are going to learn from this. He is the epitome of the Hart-Yallop disease that the MNT has had for a long time, meaningless possession that creates nothing, a style we need to break from.

I have my criticisms of Hume too but in a team as offensively challenged as this how can you ignore him? And another veteran like Bernier with a great attitude and fighting spirit that has been so lacking on this team.

I have a myriad of other issues with the selections but lets just say as much as I was not a fan of Hart and also think Mitchell's hiring was a mistake one never got the impression they were playing politics or favourites or making bizarre decisions such as happened with Yallop. One could quibble with the occasional selection but for the most part Mitchell and Hart put our best players on the pitch. Miller seems to be a step back to the Yallop style of WTF type of decisions that seem to be based on other factors than purely merit. It is born out in some of the selections he has made and also many of the comments he makes about various players and decisions.

[Mr.Impact]

Bernier is wayyyyyyyyyy to talented, playing on a winning side, could bring that winning mentality to the younger players, loves his country, would do anything to play for Canada ... alas Miller settles for DeGuzman.

Whats's wrong with Canadian Football indeed.

[maccaliam]

Bernier is wayyyyyyyyyy to talented, playing on a winning side, could bring that winning mentality to the younger players, loves his country, would do anything to play for Canada ... alas Miller settles for DeGuzman.

Whats's wrong with Canadian Football indeed.

Indeed.

[Yohan]

Bernier is wayyyyyyyyyy to talented, playing on a winning side, could bring that winning mentality to the younger players, loves his country, would do anything to play for Canada ... alas Miller settles for DeGuzman.

Whats's wrong with Canadian Football indeed.

really. Bernier over JDG esp with Miller's reasoning for dropping Bernier makes me wonder wtf

[Blackdude]

really. Bernier over JDG esp with Miller's reasoning for dropping Bernier makes me wonder wtf

I don't think that it was Miller's decision. Fonseca already made the decision prior to that by not including him on the roster.

[Grizzly]

I don't think that it was Miller's decision. Fonseca already made the decision prior to that by not including him on the roster.

Nope. Read the article posted a few pages back. Miller said it was his decision and it also sounds like he made the decisions on the 35 man roster or was at least heavily consulted on them.

[Keegan]

Nope. Read the article posted a few pages back. Miller said it was his decision and it also sounds like he made the decisions on the 35 man roster or was at least heavily consulted on them.

He didn't have any say on the 35 man roster I can assure you of that. Marc Weber either didn't know or just chose poor wording (or maybe he asked about both at once and just got the same answer to cover both). He chose his 23 from the 35 roster selected by Fonseca/whoever.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/goldcup/news/article/2013/06/25/gold-cup-canada-going-there-win-not-damage-limitation-says-interim-boss-coli

"On this occasion, he had no say in the initial 35-man draft roster but he had the final say on the group that starts camp on Wednesday in advance of Canada’s first game of the tournament against Martinique on July 7 at the Rose Bowl."

Leaving guys like Bernier, Hume and Klukowski off the 35 man roster looks to be a mistake from Fonsesca. I don't see how he can justify leaving those 3 off when they've been 3 of the most regularly playing Canadians all season and we've lost out on spots due to a guy like Aird turning it down... that was very stupid in hindsight. I thought they had an inside track on him if they were adding him but at least it covers their ass for later, doesn't do much for us as supporters though.

It's extra sickening to think that the guys left off: Bernier, Hume and De Rosario either didn't play or in Hume's case he was the only player who had a decent game in Honduras. To leave him off a preliminary roster after that while teammates from that day are shoo ins is a slap in the face.

[Obinna]

I still can't believe Bernier is not on the roster. Not only is he more a better all around player than deGuzman right now, but he is also in season. It better not be an age thing with Bernier being a few years older, because I bet you that Bernier has more years left in the tank than deGuzman. I know I have already said it, and others have said it, but it is truly remarkable how one of the best defensive midfielders in MLS is not selected by Canada for the Gold Cup.

I would love to hear them defend their decision to call JdG over Bernier...

[Tarrius]

This doesn't really add to the conversation, but I'm absolutely baffled by some of the players who are being called up. I realize that we don't have that much depth overall, but picking players who don't get playing time over multiple players who are regularly playing and playing well doesn't make any sense to me.

I know we're trying to push more towards our younger talent and breed them into international football, but this is going to be our last taste of competitive soccer for two years. Let's at least call most of our best players, along with a few younger prospects, so we ourselves can be competitive. Once this tournament is finished, then we can call squads like these for friendlies in preparation for the next cycle of WCQ.

I sincerely hope this squad surprises us and we can at least make it to the quarter finals and hopefully further... but that doesn't seem too likely.

[Keano]

I still can't believe Bernier is not on the roster. Not only is he more a better all around player than deGuzman right now, but he is also in season. It better not be an age thing with Bernier being a few years older, because I bet you that Bernier has more years left in the tank than deGuzman. I know I have already said it, and others have said it, but it is truly remarkable how one of the best defensive midfielders in MLS is not selected by Canada for the Gold Cup.

I would love to hear them defend their decision to call JdG over Bernier...

+1000

If it's not a case of him being asked and not being released/wanting to, it would be one of the most head-scratching omissions out there in international soccer.

[Keegan]

This doesn't really add to the conversation, but I'm absolutely baffled by some of the players who are being called up. I realize that we don't have that much depth overall, but picking players who don't get playing time over multiple players who are regularly playing and playing well doesn't make any sense to me.

I know we're trying to push more towards our younger talent and breed them into international football, but this is going to be our last taste of competitive soccer for two years. Let's at least call most of our best players, along with a few younger prospects, so we ourselves can be competitive. Once this tournament is finished, then we can call squads like these for friendlies in preparation for the next cycle of WCQ.

I sincerely hope this squad surprises us and we can at least make it to the quarter finals and hopefully further... but that doesn't seem too likely.

I also tend to think that way but then I start to think a little deeper. Do we really need to give yet another shot to the same guys that have failed in every competition for the past decade? What do we have to lose by switching it up a bit? If you look at the times when we did have some success (2000, 2003, 2007) the rosters weren't all that great and in fact I'd say this team is STILL better on paper. You just never know with football and that's why we're fans. Let's go for it with this roster and see who impresses and survives for WCQ.

I'm happy with the youngsters called... guys who will undoubtedly be in this program down the line, not just guys that are there that may potentially be MNT players in 5 years. I don't think anyone here would disagree that Osorio, Teibert, Piette, Henry and Aleman make up the top tier of Canadian prospects. Cavallini would be in there too and he was called but declined so can't blame the CSA. Bekker is pretty well a blue chip prospect but he would have benefited by being left at home.