No, no, a million times, NO.

[Drew Shaw]

Highly selective memory amongst the Whoreglass apologists apparently.

All people who have to lie, on any subject, to support their opinions have selective memories. It's essential if you are dishonest.

[El Hombre]

Just to add to El Hombre post, let's note that Inter Milan ( a pretty big club) has players from Kenya (128th) and Macedonia (98th) in their squad. If you are good enough those teams will sign you regardless of your NT.

Thanks. I also forgot that both Chelsea and Barcelona each paid a fee for Icelandic international Eidur Gudjohnson.

[ted]

All people who have to lie, on any subject, to support their opinions have selective memories. It's essential if you are dishonest.

Normally I defend Richard's right to disagree but when he goes off the deep end and actually lies, well, he is on his own now.

[Richard]

Lies?

[ted]

Lies?

As in "to lie". To tell a falsehood. Repeating information you know to be factually in error. Asking a question based on a false premise.

Ie: To falsely describe a player who has signed a contract with Bayern Munich as "an aspiring professional footballer" or to suggest that somehow signing said contract with one of the top clubs in the world was not clear evidence that he had arrived at the pinnacle of his profession.

Your "question" is not worthy of response because it assumes facts that are not accurate. He had no need to play for England in professional terms since he had at the time already signed a professional contract with the Bundesliga Champions and was therefore going to be playing football against many of the best players in the world.

You cannot say B leads to A when A comes first and to continue to do so is to perpetuate a lie.

[Gordon]

You're right. We're all a bunch of unpatriotic assholes for supporting soccer in this country with our wallets.

Thanks for putting us in our place, Captain Canada!

Actually, I was just thinking hypocrites.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

In case anyone was wondering, Toronto started 4 canadians tonight and brought one on in the second half.

[ted]

Actually, I was just thinking hypocrites.

Yet still you have not shown the hypocrisy.

I hate The Whore because he promised to play for Canada then turned around and played for England.

Bircham was never courted by the England team, never promised to play for them.

Would I prefer to restrict international rules more, maybe, but that is not germaine to the discussion of The Whore no matter how desperately you wish to slander those who disagree with you.

[kj52]

Yet still you have not shown the hypocrisy.

I hate The Whore because he promised to play for Canada then turned around and played for England.

Bircham was never courted by the England team, never promised to play for them.

Would I prefer to restrict international rules more, maybe, but that is not germaine to the discussion of The Whore no matter how desperately you wish to slander those who disagree with you.

Since this seems to be the ultimate nit-picking thread, it should be pointed out that it would be libel, not slander (unless you've had a verbal conversation we don't know about).

[Marc]

What a total crock of ****.

The issue of Canadian content rules has been debated on this board for years before anyone in Canada spent one single dime on applying for an MLS team. This long-standing issue has been debated to death and frankly to characterize the current response as "a shrug" betrays a total ****ing ignorance of what has been going on. No one wants a 100% Canadian quota and no one wants 0% Canadians.

Exactly. I remember all that bluster and years of discussion and debate about Canadian leagues, development and quotas. And then when push came to shove and our clubs lobbied MLS to change the rules all of us with an MLS team to support rationalized it all off in self-interest - myself included.

As you said, no one wants 0% Canadians but we're evidently a-ok still attending games when there is the prospect of 0% Canadians on the field. Yep, that's a definite shrug.

But signing **********, how dare they? How could they do this to us? Betrayal! Disrespect! How could we support such a team? Now this, this is seasons-ticket-abandoning worthy...

...from the same clubs who hoodwinked us (and the larger Nats community) on quotas?

Look, I think Richard's full of it on **********. Agree the Bircham comparison does not hold water. Think that ********** is despicable. Always have.

But I also think selling MLS as (in part) a better way to help develop Canadian soccer and support the MNT than other approaches and then essentially rejigging the rules so Americans can be domestics and Canadians are voluntary (and imports elsewhere) is also pretty despicable, and the long-term ramafications may be just as dire.

Gordon might hate MLS who knows but on this he's got a point. It's ok for our own teams to mislead us, but not **********. It's ok for our clubs to dick us around on certain issues, but not others. Our teams can field zero Canadians and be ok in our books but they sign ********** and holy moly it's the ultimate betrayal.

This is about our clubs being accountable to us and what we choose to hold them to account for. That is the real issue here.

[jpg75]

Guys, i think alot of people on this board are pissed about the quotas. The people who couldn't give a **** are the ones on the team-oriented boards, or the ones who don't post at all...usually the same people who don't show up for Canada games...

[ted]

Since this seems to be the ultimate nit-picking thread...

I fail to see how calling out falsehoods is "nit-picking" but whatever.

If I said that Eric Cantona never played for Manchester United would you be nit-picking to point out the error?

Gordon's got an agenda, for sure, but he's also got a point on this. It's ok for our own teams to mislead us, but not **********.

WTF?!?!

In what way have our teams LIED to us that is IN ANY WAY comparable to The Whore?

But this is getting beyond ridiculous. There is no hypocrisy in reacting to recent news and not reacting to non-news that we have already argued to death for years.

Next I will be accused of hypocrisy because I am not railing against Qatar's being awarded the World Cup tournament. With all the real hypocrisy in the world it really saddens me when the word is used so egregiously.

[Marc]

In what way have our teams LIED to us that is IN ANY WAY comparable to The Whore?

But this is getting beyond ridiculous. There is no hypocrisy in reacting to recent news and not reacting to non-news that we have already argued to death for years.

After all that fanfare about commitment to Canada, developing for the Nats, building soccer and improving it in Canada, we have a league where playing Canadians is optional (and could be argued that they are indirectly discouraged.) Considering the role our teams played in that, how have they not?

And we haven't argued ********** to death for years? Considering how long you've been around here, I'm really surprised by your complete lack of objectivity on this.

Look, Ted you don't have to care - it's ok, it's all a matter of individual preference. But just because you don't care doesn't mean it didn't happen and doesn't make it ok and doesn't mean that everyone else is full of it.

[ted]

After all that fanfare about commitment to Canada, developing for the Nats, building soccer and improving it in Canada, we have a league where playing Canadians is optional (and could be argued that they are indirectly discouraged.) Considering the role our teams played in that, how have they not?

Sweet mother of... its like I'm talking to a brick wall.

Just because I am not angry and ranting about something does not mean I don't think it is important to address the issue.

I was called a hypocrite because I was participating in a discussion about The Whore and was not discussing something totally unrelated to this discussion. Something that in fact I have discussed for years and do care about.

And we haven't argued ********** to death for years? Considering how long you've been around here, I'm really surprised by your complete lack of objectivity on this.

And now you are ****ing lying as well.

This discussion is about the recently announced very real possibility of The Whore being signed by the Whitecaps. An issue that we have NOT been discussing for years. To say we have been discussing something for years that only happened in the last few weeks is false.

Look, Ted you don't have to care - it's ok, it's all a matter of individual preference. But just because you don't care doesn't mean it didn't happen and doesn't make it ok and doesn't mean that everyone else is full of it.

And again WTF!?!!??! I don't care?!??!

Thanks for being a total prick. I simply asked Richard and Gordon not to lie or insult me with false information and straw men. I NEVER ONCE in this discussion said anyone was "full of it". I called Richard out for his lie but only after giving him the opportunity to correct himself.

If you have something to add to the discussion of the recent rumours of a possible signing of The Whore by the Vancouver Whitecaps then by all means post it. If not I'd appreciate it if the character assassination would stop right now. Thanks.

[Drew Shaw]

Lies?

Ted has covered it. When people know something is factually incorrect, but say it anyway on the assumption the other person won't catch them out, that's a lie. This subject matter is familiar enough with a lot of people here that it's hard for anyone to fudge the details and get away with it for long.

[Richard]

How about quoting the alleged lies instead of some vague reference?

[narduch]

I think Gordon makes a good point.

It does feel like we've sold our souls for professional soccer.

The worse part is that the teams are still garbage. I don't think TFC and Vancouver's records would have been worse with a higher Canadian quota.

Oh well, I guess this isn't the proper thread for this....

[Macksam]

After all that fanfare about commitment to Canada, developing for the Nats, building soccer and improving it in Canada, we have a league where playing Canadians is optional (and could be argued that they are indirectly discouraged.) Considering the role our teams played in that, how have they not?

I don't like the quota much either. However, I think the Canadian MLS clubs can see the huge potential in marketing opportunities by having young, local Canadians being successful on the team. They would be stupid not to.

[Free kick]

I don't like the quota much either. However, I think the Canadian MLS clubs can see the huge potential in marketing opportunities by having young, local Canadians being successful on the team. .

Yes, That's ultimately the key. of course we want quotas and rules to be as fair for Canadians as they are for Americans but As long as key players are being produced and developed, that's is better than what we originally envisioned of MLS clubs being avenues for players on the existing NT pools who are looking for professional options. If that sounds apologist, it is not. Developing new players and new blood for the national teams is even better than the situation whereby they just homes for the existing pool of talent.

Two night ago, there were three of these types who were competing against concacaf region talent. Bad concacaf talent mind you , but still, indications are, they will still get to see even better talent if they advance to the next round. Thats better than running around stacking the team with every second div player in Europe who happens to have a Canadian passport.

[RS]

I think Gordon makes a good point.

It does feel like we've sold our souls for professional soccer.

The worse part is that the teams are still garbage. I don't think TFC and Vancouver's records would have been worse with a higher Canadian quota.

Oh well, I guess this isn't the proper thread for this....

How would TFC's record be any different if the quota was at, say, ten Canadian players?

(Note: This is not me advocating for the current ridiculously-low quota. I'm simply curious as to how the teams would magically get better if the quota was higher, which seems to be the suggestion from some in this thread and others.)

Yes, That's ultimately the key. of course we want quotas and rules to be as fair for Canadians as they are for Americans but As long as key players are being produced and developed, that's is better than what we originally envisioned of MLS clubs being avenues for players on the existing NT pools who are looking for professional options. If that sounds apologist, it is not. Developing new players and new blood for the national teams is even better than the situation whereby they just homes for the existing pool of talent.

Two night ago, there were three of these types who were competing against concacaf region talent. Bad concacaf talent mind you , but still, indications are, they will still get to see even better talent if they advance to the next round. Thats better than running around stacking the team with every second div player in Europe who happens to have a Canadian passport.

TFC started four Canadians on Wednesday (Zavarise, Stinson, Henry, Morgan).

[Free kick]

TFC started four Canadians on Wednesday (Zavarise, Stinson, Henry, Morgan).

I knew that but three were academy products. I didnt forget the fourth,Zavarise, but he is not internally developed. Which was point earlier.

[narduch]

How would TFC's record be any different if the quota was at, say, ten Canadian players?

That's kind of my point.

But that doesn't even account for the discriminatory nature of the quota rule.

Its a shame the CSA has no backbone on this issue.

[Drew Shaw]

How about quoting the alleged lies instead of some vague reference?

Ted already covered it. Your dishonesty is exhausting, which I suppose is the point of it.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

I knew that but three were academy products. I didnt forget the fourth,Zavarise, but he is not internally developed. Which was point earlier.

Your splitting hairs on the issue Canadian is Canadian, unless he's OH. The amount of quality Canadians economically available to them are slim to none. What Canadian players are available that would improve either TFC or the Caps. There's so much more to bringing in players to MLS clubs, and just cause your Canadian does not mean playing for the Caps or TFC even means anythign to you. None of them grew up Reds fans and I have a strong suspicion very few called the Caps there fav club. It is not as easy as going to the Canadian Abroad list and just picking the ones you want to come home, and then waving a wand then there here. They have uprooted there lives once at least already, have gf's wive's and kids from europe, it's not so easy to just convince these guys to all of sudden say, "Hey we got top flight NA soccer now here so come home and play in a capped league, just cause it's whats expected of you cause your Canadian."

These clubs will eventually be able to attract these kids back home, but at this point the amount of players wanting to come here are limited, whether they are Canadian or Foriegn, so you take whats gonna improve your club, you play who's gonna help you win, regardless of passport.

So let's be happy there's any Canadian players, on two Canadian MLS Clubs that 10 years ago, one was merely a pipedream(if that) and the other playing in front of a handful of people.

[tmcmurph]

These clubs will eventually be able to attract these kids back home, but at this point the amount of players wanting to come here are limited, whether they are Canadian or Foriegn, so you take whats gonna improve your club, you play who's gonna help you win, regardless of passport.

So let's be happy there's any Canadian players, on two Canadian MLS Clubs that 10 years ago, one was merely a pipedream(if that) and the other playing in front of a handful of people.

As long as the salary cap is in place and so low the best young players will go to Europe. Look at Straith. I was surprised to see that he is making $300k+ a year. Happy for him but surprised. To spend that on a young kid when we spend similar to that on a seasoned vet like Demeritt. That is where Germany's 80-20 split of TV revenues comes in so well.

Until the salary cap goes away the best we can hope for is to develop and sell the early bloomers and keep the late bloomers. They will still be very good players but just not at a young age. This process will take 5 to 10 years if done correctly. With 6-7 million to draw from for TFC, similar for Montreal and 4+ million for the Caps in time we will get more. Look at all the countries with less that those numbers. Yes a lot of other sports will claim a lot of athletes but even if you take 20% of those numbers it will work out for us and our MNT.