No, no, a million times, NO.

[Richard]

Sometimes it must.

[paul-collins]

Marx and Engels thought so, too. (If that offends you, try substituting "Ayn Rand" for the old guys)

[Richard]

Marx, Engels and Ayn Rand all had a lot of good ideas as well as not so good. Just pick the good from the bad, we all make that kind of judgement call every day of our lives.

[Drew Shaw]

In the Globe interview it seems Mallett is blissfully unaware of the Whore's polarizing presence for some fans. If these clubs TFC/Whitecaps are so tuned in to their fanbase why would they want to antagonize even a small number of them (and this appears to be a bigger number than small)

Just wondering if anyone has formally expressed their displeasure, letters, emails etc with the team's management.

Also wondering if the TFC/Whitecaps PA announcers announce the team as "Your Vancouver Whitecaps" when they come onto the field. I've always hated that as it is so hypocritical and phony. Imagine saying "Your New York Yankees" when George Steinbrenner owned them. GREASY!

Well if they're "Your Vancouver Whitecaps" you sure as hell have a right to "your" say.

It's part of the dumbing down of society, and the patronising of fans by sports teams. I'll decide if the home team is 'mine' or not (it always is), and I find it irritating to have that decision made for me, now that I'm no longer 6 years old.

[Drew Shaw]

everyone deserves a second chance and come on hes canadian and has skill look at this...

People get second chances when they apologise for what they have done, or lied about. The Whore has done neither. If he would admit that he played for England to further his club career and win trophies, and/or that if he had played for Canada it would have helped the development of soccer here, then he could be forgiven by some who currently dislike/hate him. That's the way apology and forgiveness work.

Instead, he started lying years ago ("I feel more English than Canadian") so that he wouldn't have to admit the real reason for what he was doing (personal financial gain, and personal trophy glory). Once you start lying, you are usually forced into repeating your lies, and adding new ones. The Whore could have been the greatest Canadian soccer player ever. Instead, he is ignored or reviled by the minority of Canadians who have heard of him; yet he could have had fame in Canada similar to that which Steve Nash enjoys if he had put on the Canadian jersey. His choice.

[Drew Shaw]

I find it ironic that vitriol is being spewed towards OH from folks quite content to allow their club sides put out foreign sides, and rationalize it away with supposed future benefits to Canadian soccer (sounds like the OH apologists who spoke of the good things to come for Canadian soccer by the ********** defection). OH sold out Canadian Soccer for fame, millions of pounds, a chance to play in the WC, and Birds (or Blokes depending upon which way he swings). As far as I am concerned, some posters have sold out so as to be able to see Ty ****ing Hardin and Jonathon ****ing Leathers (weird that they have the same middle name) play every Saturday. I will admit that I have been having a bit of fun making up clever little user names incorporating the words "dirty crack ho".

That said, I could care less what the hell happens to either the Whitecaps or OH.

If you would like to watch a domestic league where all the players are of the same nationality as the country they are playing in, you're probably going to be able to do so in Cuba, North Korea, and that's about it. Some things about the world are different than when we were children. Some of those things are worth getting angry about, and some are not. If you get angry about the non-Canadians on Canadian MLS teams, then you will be angry about it with no chance of a respite in sight.

This is part of what makes international football different than club football.

[Richard]

This is as unwinnable an argument as the liberal versus conservative one. Both sides convinced they are right and entrenched in their views. Not much logic, reason or common sense. Most rightminded folks have a more relaxed attitude. As for myself, at the professional level I just like watching good football whoever is playing.

[alberta white]

People get second chances when they apologise for what they have done, or lied about. The Whore has done neither. If he would admit that he played for England to further his club career and win trophies, and/or that if he had played for Canada it would have helped the development of soccer here, then he could be forgiven by some who currently dislike/hate him. That's the way apology and forgiveness work.

Instead, he started lying years ago ("I feel more English than Canadian") so that he wouldn't have to admit the real reason for what he was doing (personal financial gain, and personal trophy glory). Once you start lying, you are usually forced into repeating your lies, and adding new ones. The Whore could have been the greatest Canadian soccer player ever. Instead, he is ignored or reviled by the minority of Canadians who have heard of him; yet he could have had fame in Canada similar to that which Steve Nash enjoys if he had put on the Canadian jersey. His choice.

To reinforce your erudite assesment I would like to offer you the example of argueably Britains greatest Player. An Icon of Manchester United and effectivley the last of the Busby babes (I know Bobby Charlton is still with us. but he was essentially one of the First)

Regardless of all his club endeavours and the accolades associated with his career George Best never played in a world cup finals tournament, as Northern Ireland never qualified.

However, if you ever get to see him wearing the Green of his home country you cannot deny the pride and passion he takes out onto the field. The Day he Mugged the Ball off Gordon Banks is a joy to behold.

Sure he made (and blew) his money, but when he passed they mourned his passing from Bombay all the way back to Belfast.

[Drew Shaw]

To reinforce your erudite assesment I would like to offer you the example of argueably Britains greatest Player. An Icon of Manchester United and effectivley the last of the Busby babes (I know Bobby Charlton is still with us. but he was essentially one of the First)

Regardless of all his club endeavours and the accolades associated with his career George Best never played in a world cup finals tournament, as Northern Ireland never qualified. However, if you ever get to see him wearing the Green of his home country you cannot deny the pride and passion he takes out onto the field. The Day he Mugged the Ball off Gordon Banks is a joy to behold. Sure he made (and blew) his money, but when he passed they mourned his passing from Bombay all the way back to Belfast.

Exactly. George Best is rightly regarded as the greatest player ever by Northern Irelanders. When people say OH was "ambitious" for wanting to be a small fish in a big pond, I see it the other way: that he was a coward afraid to do the heavy lifting required to be the big fish that made Canada's pond a little bit bigger. People like Nancy Greene, or Steve Nash, or Alex Bilodeau will be remembered by Canadians for making our national sporting "pool" a little bit bigger by their efforts. That type of contribution is worth more than anything the England team accomplished during the times that OH was a (never fully accepted) member of it, and the sad thing is that OH could have made that type of difference (though we'll never know). OH made the choice to be forgotten by foreigners rather than become "the greatest ever" in his own country, and I for one enjoy the schadenfreude involved in thinking that he got what he deserved.

[Soju]

^Nicely put guys.

[Gordon]

If you would like to watch a domestic league where all the players are of the same nationality as the country they are playing in, you're probably going to be able to do so in Cuba, North Korea, and that's about it. Some things about the world are different than when we were children. Some of those things are worth getting angry about, and some are not. If you get angry about the non-Canadians on Canadian MLS teams, then you will be angry about it with no chance of a respite in sight.

This is part of what makes international football different than club football.

Look up, look way up and you will see my point going way over your head. If it helps, riddle me this: Why is it possible for an American to count as a domestic player in Toronto or Vancouver while a Canadian player counts as an international in Chicago or Salt Lake?

Now since you are new here, I'll save you the energy of filling in blanks about what my position might be through random shots in the dark. My first preference would be a Canadian national league with import quotas but if we are going to commit ourselves to perpetual mediocrity with a small number of MLS teams AND MLS is going to have player quotas, then the same rules that apply for americans need to apply for Canadians. IF there are limits on Canadians with US franchises, then there needs to be the same for Americans on Canadian franchises. Period. It does not matter what american law says, it does not matter that it is an american league, and it does not matter if the league manadate is to develop american soccer players. IF the discriminatory rules for Canadians are removed, then I have no problems. I have no problems with a level playing field, where Canadians can compete with american players in all markets on level terms and I have no problems with Americans counting as International players in Canada IF that is the rule for Canadians south of the border.

And as far as I am concerned, TFC, VWFC and the folks who accept the current situation, most especially those who fork over cash to the teams are committing on offence greater than Owen **********. Now I never really "got" the venom delivered to OH, I was disappointed, but it was incredibly easy to move on. Having said that, I am laughing at those who insist upon vilifying OH when they are supporting far greater offences again Canadian soccer. I laugh at the rationalizations offered for that support much the way I laugh at the rationalizations for OH's decision that focus on "future benefit" to Canada. Both are a crock.

[Redcoatsforever]

This is as unwinnable an argument as the liberal versus conservative one. Both sides convinced they are right and entrenched in their views. Not much logic, reason or common sense. Most rightminded folks have a more relaxed attitude. As for myself, at the professional level I just like watching good football whoever is playing.

Do you not see any irony in saying the argument is unwinnable because noone on either side is approaching it with logic, reason, and commonsense, and then referring to people with your perspective as the "rightminded" one?

[RS]

Look up, look way up and you will see my point going way over your head. If it helps, riddle me this: Why is it possible for an American to count as a domestic player in Toronto or Vancouver while a Canadian player counts as an international in Chicago or Salt Lake?

Now since you are new here, I'll save you the energy of filling in blanks about what my position might be through random shots in the dark. My first preference would be a Canadian national league with import quotas but if we are going to commit ourselves to perpetual mediocrity with a small number of MLS teams AND MLS is going to have player quotas, then the same rules that apply for americans need to apply for Canadians. IF there are limits on Canadians with US franchises, then there needs to be the same for Americans on Canadian franchises. Period. It does not matter what american law says, it does not matter that it is an american league, and it does not matter if the league manadate is to develop american soccer players. IF the discriminatory rules for Canadians are removed, then I have no problems. I have no problems with a level playing field, where Canadians can compete with american players in all markets on level terms and I have no problems with Americans counting as International players in Canada IF that is the rule for Canadians south of the border.

And as far as I am concerned, TFC, VWFC and the folks who accept the current situation, most especially those who fork over cash to the teams are committing on offence greater than Owen **********. Now I never really "got" the venom delivered to OH, I was disappointed, but it was incredibly easy to move on. Having said that, I am laughing at those who insist upon vilifying OH when they are supporting far greater offences again Canadian soccer. I laugh at the rationalizations offered for that support much the way I laugh at the rationalizations for OH's decision that focus on "future benefit" to Canada. Both are a crock.

You're right. We're all a bunch of unpatriotic assholes for supporting soccer in this country with our wallets.

Thanks for putting us in our place, Captain Canada!

[BearcatSA]

Look up, look way up . . .

Are you the ghost of the Friendly Giant?

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

Look up, look way up and you will see my point going way over your head. If it helps, riddle me this: Why is it possible for an American to count as a domestic player in Toronto or Vancouver while a Canadian player counts as an international in Chicago or Salt Lake?

Now since you are new here, I'll save you the energy of filling in blanks about what my position might be through random shots in the dark. My first preference would be a Canadian national league with import quotas but if we are going to commit ourselves to perpetual mediocrity with a small number of MLS teams AND MLS is going to have player quotas, then the same rules that apply for americans need to apply for Canadians. IF there are limits on Canadians with US franchises, then there needs to be the same for Americans on Canadian franchises. Period. It does not matter what american law says, it does not matter that it is an american league, and it does not matter if the league manadate is to develop american soccer players. IF the discriminatory rules for Canadians are removed, then I have no problems. I have no problems with a level playing field, where Canadians can compete with american players in all markets on level terms and I have no problems with Americans counting as International players in Canada IF that is the rule for Canadians south of the border.

And as far as I am concerned, TFC, VWFC and the folks who accept the current situation, most especially those who fork over cash to the teams are committing on offence greater than Owen **********. Now I never really "got" the venom delivered to OH, I was disappointed, but it was incredibly easy to move on. Having said that, I am laughing at those who insist upon vilifying OH when they are supporting far greater offences again Canadian soccer. I laugh at the rationalizations offered for that support much the way I laugh at the rationalizations for OH's decision that focus on "future benefit" to Canada. Both are a crock.

OH is that you?

[Guest Ed]

^ Hardly. Gordon supports our CMNT.

[Richard]

Do you not see any irony in saying the argument is unwinnable because noone on either side is approaching it with logic, reason, and commonsense, and then referring to people with your perspective as the "rightminded" one?

No irony there at all, simple statement of facts. Evidently you have some objection to facts.

[Redcoatsforever]

No irony there at all, simple statement of facts. Evidently you have some objection to facts.

So, as you said again,

This is as unwinnable an argument as the liberal versus conservative one. Both sides convinced they are right and entrenched in their views. Not much logic, reason or common sense.

You then went on to refer to your side as the "rightminded" one. After stating (sic) "not much logic, reason or common sense" in reference to both sides, you describe yours as being rightminded. What facts am I objecting to? You contradicted yourself.

[ThiKu]

You guys....wow.

[ted]

Look up, look way up and you will see my point going way over your head. ... I am laughing at those who insist upon vilifying OH when they are supporting far greater offences again Canadian soccer.

WTF!?! These are different topics and clearly it is possible to find the Whore's lies and betrayal offensive and still argue for better Canadian Content rules.

What is really offensive is counting anyone NOT eligible for the CMNT as "Canadian" for these rules.

[Marc]

WTF!?! These are different topics and clearly it is possible to find the Whore's lies and betrayal offensive and still argue for better Canadian Content rules.

I think his point is that any scrutiny/indigination over Canadian content rule reductions has not been proportionate to the indignation over a potential ********** signing.

I don't think he or anyone else is suggesting that the supporters should shut up shop and stop supporting theirteam, but it is a little convenient that the response re: ********** is outrage and bewilderment, but the response re: Canadian team(s)' wanting to weaken Canadian content rules is a shrug, some weak rationalizations and a "move on...nothing to see here" attitude.

[loyola]

I think his point is that any scrutiny/indigination over Canadian content rule reductions has not been proportionate to the indignation over a potential ********** signing.

I don't think he or anyone else is suggesting that the supporters should shut up shop and stop supporting theirteam, but it is a little convenient that the response re: ********** is outrage and bewilderment, but the response re: Canadian team(s)' wanting to weaken Canadian content rules is a shrug, some weak rationalizations and a "move on...nothing to see here" attitude.

But from a MNT fan perspective the impact on the MNT is quite different. OH decision had a direct impact on the MNT because he was the best Canadian player at the time and fans felt it had a direct impact on the quality of our NT.

The MLS quota is a totally different animal. The impact on the MNT will be long term and almost impossible to determine at the moment and that’s why some here are less concerned than others. The fact our top 20-25 players wouldn’t need quotas rules to get into a MLS roster might be the reason why some here don’t feel like this will have a direct impact on our NT.

I’m not going to give my opinion on either of those Canadian stories but I feel like both situations are quite different from a MNT perspective.

[ted]

..it is a little convenient that the response re: ********** is outrage and bewilderment, but the response re: Canadian team(s)' wanting to weaken Canadian content rules is a shrug, some weak rationalizations and a "move on...nothing to see here" attitude.

What a total crock of ****.

The issue of Canadian content rules has been debated on this board for years before anyone in Canada spent one single dime on applying for an MLS team. This long-standing issue has been debated to death and frankly to characterize the current response as "a shrug" betrays a total ****ing ignorance of what has been going on. No one wants a 100% Canadian quota and no one wants 0% Canadians. That means that the whole argument is about finding a middle ground that makes teams and the league competitive and at the same time develops and supports Canadian players. Since the opinions can legitmately vary widely this is not a balck and white, easy emotional question.

On the other hand, the question of the Whore actually playing for a Canadian team is recent and simple. It is an instant emotional response for most based on a long history of hatred towards the biggest ****ing traitor to ever play the game in Canada.

There is no equivalency. You can talk apples and oranges all you want but clearly support for the traitor is more important to some people than respectful and thoughtful debate with fellow national team supporters.

[Drew Shaw]

I'd reply, but it looks like Ted, Rudi, Bearcat, Kottonmouthed already covered it all fairly well.

Since I'm new here. Funny.

[Redcoatsforever]

What is really offensive is counting anyone NOT eligible for the CMNT as "Canadian" for these rules.

This really sums the argument up completely. All discussions of the Canadian content numbers here are just a sideshow. That's a separate point, this is about an attempt for the Whore to come in and claim to be "Canada's greatest footballer".