finchster Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 quote:Originally posted by masster Who got red carded?? opps my bad haha[xx(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratworst Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 This IS fantastic news for the Canadian soccer program, both internationally and at club level, as now children will be able to watch a real Canadian super star play for their home town team. It may not benefit JDG, and it may allow his caliber to drop slightly, but the positives over time will far outweigh the immediate negatives, if there are any serious ones. Some incentive for Canadian youth to wanna play at home should be a huge boost. Congrats TFC fans if this goes through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 I have no need to, that's not the point up for debate. This thread is about Julian, some people worry about his level of playing dropping because he's going from La Liga to MLS. Your argument is that it hasn't harmed Amada Guevara and my point is that it's not a suitable comparison. A more apt comparison for Julian relative to the Honduras NT would be Wilson Palacios or David Suazo. Guevara would be more comparable to DeRo, both in level of play and career arc. But are you aware of how many goals that Suazo has scored so far for Honduras in qualifying? the answer is four. And, three of them occurred against Puerto Rico; the other was in the weekend game versus T & T. Granted he hasn't played much recently for them, only eight matches in all and only played in three games in the Hex. Carlos Costly and Carlos Pavon lead them in scoring in WCQ with six and Guevarra is one of only two Hondurans who has appeared in all the WCQ qualifying matches for Honduras. He has tallied two goals ( as a mid fielder) and if you have had a chance to catch any of their highlights you will notice that he was instrumental in many other goals. So its pretty safe to say, that they have done so far without Suazo. There is no denying that Suazo is world class; a top marksman in Italy with Cagliari and Inter. I dont think that there is a player in CONCACAF with a higher pedigree. But who has been a bigger factor in WCQ for Honduras? The point, Just because a player plays in Europe and excels in Europe doesn't mean instant success in WCQ in CONCACAF. Dwight Yorke is the only player that I can think off, whose success in Europe translated into great WCQ play in CONCACAF. In fact, you could make a pretty damn good case, that its the opposite. Is it travel, fixture congestion, acclimatization, team chemistry... etc? I dont know but if success in WCQ was measured by the number of players in Europe, then we would have been the top qualifier in CONCACAF in the past two WC cycles. And then how do we explain 1986 (the only time that Canada went to the big party) when we used a team of almost exclusively domestic players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 ^ David Suazo has been injured for much of WCQ. What Honduras has done, they've done with a total team effort. Saturday night was the 10th game i've watch of theirs this qualifying campaign. Guevara has been a solid, veteran role player for them, but hardly instrumental. Anyways, that's not the point of my post. My post was a rebutal to BBTB's post that MLS hasn't hurt Guevara so therefore it shouldn't hurt De Guzman. Fact is, if Guevara wasn't playing for Toronto FC he'd still be playing for Motagua so it could be argued that MLS is helping extend the international career of a 33 year old. Julian on the other hand is a 28 year old in the prime years of his career - that's hardly an identical comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 ^ David Suazo has been injured for much of WCQ. What Honduras has done, they've done with a total team effort. Saturday night was the 10th game i've watch of theirs this qualifying campaign. Guevara has been a solid, veteran role player for them, but hardly instrumental. Anyways, that's not the point of my post. My post was a rebutal to BBTB's post that MLS hasn't hurt Guevara so therefore it shouldn't hurt De Guzman. Fact is, if Guevara wasn't playing for Toronto FC he'd still be playing for Motagua so it could be argued that MLS is helping extend the international career of a 33 year old. Julian on the other hand is a 28 year old in the prime years of his career - that's hardly an identical comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 David Suazo started the game on the bench against T&T for what it's worth. Of the players who started 7 play in the Honduran League (including one from Montagua), one plays for TFC in MLS and one plays for Cruz Azul in Mexico so that was 9 starters out of 11 from clubs in CONCACAF. A team effort based primarily on players, who have never been anywhere near the top leagues in Europe, has Honduras on the brink of World Cup qualification. That is completely counter-intuitive for the younger posters on this board, but is probably a lot less surprising for those who are old enough to have watched Canada playing in the 1986 World Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 David Suazo started the game on the bench against T&T for what it's worth. Of the players who started 7 play in the Honduran League (including one from Montagua), one plays for TFC in MLS and one plays for Cruz Azul in Mexico so that was 9 starters out of 11 from clubs in CONCACAF. A team effort based primarily on players, who have never been anywhere near the top leagues in Europe, has Honduras on the brink of World Cup qualification. That is completely counter-intuitive for the younger posters on this board, but is probably a lot less surprising for those who are old enough to have watched Canada playing in the 1986 World Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 If De Guzman is willing to play for TFC this is very bad news. It means Canada's best best player isn't fit for the German, Italian, Spanish, English, Dutch, Russian or even Swiss first division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 No, it means Canada's top club was willing to offer him more money than he could get from clubs in any of these leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 ^^For once I agree with BBTB. And piltdownman were you drunk when you compiled this list of leagues better than MLS? One entry in the list destroys any credibility of your argument since unlike the others it is not better than MLS. I doubt I have to mention which one since it is pretty apparent. Here listen to the expert: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 initially I was dissappointed with this news, but perhaps it is not a big deal, or mabye even a benifit for canada. With Julian and DeRosario playing together regularly with Gerba up front and Serioux in the back, we have to worry less about the disjointedness of our team that comes with having players scattered all over europe. And as Nana emerges (which it looks like he will) we could have up to 5 players in the starting lineup who play together regularly. [edit] We could conceviably have an outfield line up like this DeRo(TFC)------------Gerba(TFC)-----------Johnson(RSL) Hutch(Copenhagen)---De Guzman(TFC)------------Bernier(FCN) Kulkowski(Brugge)---McKenna(Koln)--Serioux(TFC)---Nana(TFC) So with that being said, piltdownman do not be so dissappointed with this move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
closetboostie Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly ^^For once I agree with BBTB. And piltdownman were you drunk when you compiled this list of leagues better than MLS? One entry in the list destroys any credibility of your argument since unlike the others it is not better than MLS. I doubt I have to mention which one since it is pretty apparent. Here listen to the expert: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... That clip was hilarious. Not at all what I expected. I'm putting that in my bookmarks. Thank you for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 DeRo, Serioux and Gerba should be finished as major contributors to the MNT. Hopefully Hutch and Bernier are surpassed by the next generation as well, in time for wcq 2012. i'd also hope nana is sold to europe by then. quote:Originally posted by Obinna initially I was dissappointed with this news, but perhaps it is not a big deal, or mabye even a benifit for canada. With Julian and DeRosario playing together regularly with Gerba up front and Serioux in the back, we have to worry less about the disjointedness of our team that comes with having players scattered all over europe. And as Nana emerges (which it looks like he will) we could have up to 5 players in the starting lineup who play together regularly. [edit] We could conceviably have an outfield line up like this DeRo(TFC)------------Gerba(TFC)-----------Johnson(RSL) Hutch(Copenhagen)---De Guzman(TFC)------------Bernier(FCN) Kulkowski(Brugge)---McKenna(Koln)--Serioux(TFC)---Nana(TFC) So with that being said, piltdownman do not be so dissappointed with this move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I'm happy with this move from the National Team's perspective. Julian has accomplished more than any other Canadian in Europe by virtue of playing in such a technical league. I would like to see him in England, but there is so much pressure for results there that playing time can be a serious issue, a la Stalteri. At least now we know he'll see 30-40 matches per year at a decent level. That has to be good for us -especially when he's not 6 hours or more away from us, both in distance and in time zone. Assuming the faux turf doesn't kill him. I would assume he wouldn't have come back without an assurance that there will be grass in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard No, it means Canada's top club was willing to offer him more money than he could get from clubs in any of these leagues. Which would state that De Guzman isn't really that bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone I'm happy with this move from the National Team's perspective. Is it just the matches that he's getting in? Because he could get those in a competitive environment superior to MLS (say, a mid-table Bundesliga club, or an Eredivisie side that is involved in Champs League or Europa League play). Or is it a chemistry thing, with a handful of potential MNTers currently in the TFC roster (Serioux, De Ro, Gerba, Nana)? I don't see much benefit here, as De Ro and Serioux are probably not going to be important contributors for the next WCQ, while Nana, should he continue to develop, shouldn't remain long with Toronto. I hope he doesn't get the TFC disease, whereby loyalty to club supersedes international play (see De Rosario and Serioux in GC 2009, and Brennan before he bitched his way off the NT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 ^I guess so. But he might not get the opportunity to play as box-to-box as he will (I suspect) with TFC. This is the kind of player Canada needs. I still think Julian could improve his attacking game, which he'll now have a chance to do at club level. He also has the opportunity to be an icon of the game in this country and perhaps help get more support for the MNT. Once the salary cap is extended, I suspect that -with good management- there's no reason that an MLS club can't be on of the 100-50 best clubs in the world. This is about where I'd rate Cologne or BMG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard David Suazo started the game on the bench against T&T for what it's worth. Of the players who started 7 play in the Honduran League (including one from Montagua), one plays for TFC in MLS and one plays for Cruz Azul in Mexico so that was 9 starters out of 11 from clubs in CONCACAF. A team effort based primarily on players, who have never been anywhere near the top leagues in Europe, has Honduras on the brink of World Cup qualification. That is completely counter-intuitive for the younger posters on this board, but is probably a lot less surprising for those who are old enough to have watched Canada playing in the 1986 World Cup. I understand the argument you're making and i do agree with it somewhat, but using one game to make that point is deceiving. A number of the top Honduran players were either being rested for the clash with Mexico tomorrow, suspended or being eased back in. I would expect the lineup at the Azteca to include one of either Suazo or Costly up front with Pavon, do not expect Jerry Palacios to be starting again. Wilson Palacios will be back from suspension and will be teamed up in the middle with either Hendry or Leon, Guevara will probably be back out on the right wing. My guess would be 1 player (Pavon) out of 6 in the midfield or striker will be from the Honduran league, and Pavon played the spring tournament with Necaxa and only recently went back to Real Espana. The bulk of the domestic players on the side are in defense or in net (4 out of 5, Figueroa is the only one playing abroad). I think the biggest problem with Canada is not so much our top players playing in Europe, it's that they barely ever play together. Looking at the makeup of the top teams in CONCACAF most of their top players play abroad. The US lineup features only about 2-4 MLS players on any given matchday. Mexico has half their regular starters outside of Mexico. Most of the Jamaican team that beat us out in WCQ plays outside of CONCACAF. Costa Rica has been using alot of Euro-based players this cycle and they're also seeing their top 1985-88 born generation (Ruiz, Borges etc.) fleeing for Europe early. The difference between these teams and us is that they all (except for Jamaica) play consistently during international breaks so that they can build chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 TFC has called a media conference for Wednesday for a "Toronto FC player announcement". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Toronto FC have announced a media conference for Wednesday morning where it appears that the team will announce the signing of Canadian international Julian DeGuzman as the team's designated player. http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=290402 TFC have to dump salary and Carl Robinson is the favourite to go, but are any teams actually going to want Robinson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueviking Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan JDG moving to TFC might actually be tremendously beneficial for Canada by allowing Julian to truly develop as an attacking midfielder, a role he has always been denied in Europe, and the one role Canada could use him in the most. maybe if he signed with a USL team he would really be able to sharpen his skills... i find it hard to accept that he will develop in any way playing at this level....would we be heralding his chance to develop if he had signed for s****horpe united in the championship, or tranmere rovers of league one?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 If he does sign with TFC I wonder what his chances are of being loaned out in January. I find it hard to believe he'd play a few games with TFC and then sit around until March of 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I have a feeling he may be putting a clause in his contract wehre he can be loaned out and or leave at some point. I hope so at least, but if he wants to play in Europe I think the right move would be to just wait it out for a month or so and I'm fairly sure a top calibre team will come looking for a quality player they can have before the transfer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 TFC have to dump salary and Carl Robinson is the favourite to go, but are any teams actually going to want Robinson? Latest from Kristian Jack of The Score is that Danny Dichio will announce his retirement tomorrow morning and that the JDG deal should be finalized later in the day. http://my.thescore.com/footyblog/archive/2009/09/08/25319.aspx The announcement of him becoming a technical director at a youth club earlier in the summer made it look like he was being lined up for that the first time around with the JDG saga, in my opinion. http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/article/655007 According to Kristian Jack it is a three year deal with no early opt-out clause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueviking Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 oy...what a shame. 3 years...its almost like he's retiring from the game...very disappointed....how could he not have had any interest in europe... guys like american onyewu sign 3 year deals with AC milan and our best goes to MLS at the height of his career?... how can anyone be happy to see him come down to ali gerba's club level...seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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