earlimus Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I think Donovan is a douche as well. Had to get that out. However I disagree complete redhat. Players become better by having superior players and environments around them. You cannot tell me that if Donovan had grown up and Cataluna and had come up through the Barca youth system, he wouldn't be a WAY better player than he is. It's a tricky thing to look at, I mean you cannot say that Lionel Messi for example isn't a guy who was born with an immense amount of talent. All the same, I don't think that he'd be the same player he is had he been born and schooled in, let's say... Toronto. Would JDG and his bro be the same quality that they are had they not gone to the Netherlands at such a young age? Forget the fact that Donovan receives less internationl play because he's in the MLS, does anyone truly believe that training with the LA Galaxy affords him the same quality and improvement as training with a team where EVERY SINGLE PLAYER is superior? I agree with Redhat in the marketing opportunities in having DeGuz and DeRo on TFC. Hopefully MLSE is smart enough to turn this into some great publicity for the game. I just can't help but think back to Julian being on It's Called Soccer and hearing him say that he owed it to himself and to the sacrifices that he's made, to see through the prime years of his career in Europe. Being the MVP of a team like Deportivo is something that no Canadian (maybe Forrest aside) player has done before, and most of our best players jumping ship, who knows when it will happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squid2 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard I hope you are not going to try to argue that MLS has a markedly more significant deleterious effect on the form of the best player from a country in international games than it does on the rest of roster. word of the day. del#8901;e#8901;te#8901;ri#8901;ous#8194;#8194;/#716;d#603;l#618;#712;t#618;#601;ri#601;s/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [del-i-teer-ee-uhs] Show IPA Use deleterious in a Sentence See web results for deleterious See images of deleterious –adjective 1. injurious to health: deleterious gases. 2. harmful; injurious: deleterious influences. Origin: 1635–45; < Gk d#275;l#275;trios destructive, adj. deriv. of d#275;l#275;tr destroyer, equiv. to d#275;l#275;- var. s. of d#275;leîsthai to hurt, injure + -t#275;r agent suffix + -ios adj. suffix; see -ious Related forms: del#8901;e#8901;te#8901;ri#8901;ous#8901;ly, adverb del#8901;e#8901;te#8901;ri#8901;ous#8901;ness, noun Synonyms: 2. pernicious, hurtful, destructive; noxious. Antonyms: 2. beneficial. Great to learn something new early in the day. [8D] Thanks BBTB:) Mo can dump the diving little prick from Hunduras any time now.... he's been invisible most of the season. He's just another passenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard I hope you are not going to try to argue that MLS has a markedly more significant deleterious effect on the form of the best player from a country in international games than it does on the rest of roster. I have no need to, that's not the point up for debate. This thread is about Julian, some people worry about his level of playing dropping because he's going from La Liga to MLS. Your argument is that it hasn't harmed Amada Guevara and my point is that it's not a suitable comparison. A more apt comparison for Julian relative to the Honduras NT would be Wilson Palacios or David Suazo. Guevara would be more comparable to DeRo, both in level of play and career arc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by earlimus It's doing more harm than if he was playing for a good Spanish club on a weekly basis. I think it's fair to say that passing to Chad Barrett on a regular basis would probably bring down Lionel Messi's game. Probably lowers your sperm count too. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA this made my day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spungi Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 How about this argument then... is it better for JDG to play for TFC or not play at all? It's pretty clear he is being blackballed in Europe for speaking out against unpaid wages while at Depor... he was their player of the year two years ago, and he hasnt even got a satisfactory offer from anyone out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by TheKottonmouthed Was it money, lack of intrest from big clubs or any clubs, or was it National pride. IMO, playing in Europe or TFC has nothing to do with national pride. His comments and feelings about Canada and his commitment for our NMT are enough proof that he has national pride. quote:Originally posted by Spungi How about this argument then... is it better for JDG to play for TFC or not play at all? It's pretty clear he is being blackballed in Europe for speaking out against unpaid wages while at Depor... he was their player of the year two years ago, and he hasnt even got a satisfactory offer from anyone out there! As a TFC fan, I'd love to see this club in MLS play-offs, but for me CNMT comes first and for the good of the NMT, JDG must find a club in Europe. Maybe you are right that he's being blackballed in Europe. Maybe he and us fans had too much high expectation about where he would end-up but I still believe he coud find himself a club as good as Depor in Spain or England, I just hope to be a club that would give an offensive role in midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Granted I think this could do alot to grow the game in Canada. I still think he should wait, lots of clubs will come calling in the near future and he should be in a top tier league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueviking Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 bah, that is so disappointing...wow. how do you go from playing in front of 90 000 people and the best players in the world at the berabeu and camp nou to 8000 people in a baseball stadium in kansas city, or an 80% empty american football stadium with plastic grass and football lines. anyone who thinks this is good for the national team is delerious...his growth as a player is done...cut off at the peak of his career...from testing his skills against the best in the world to playing against part time players who spend their afternoons selling real estate or attending university and making $20 000 a year. soon we will find out his brother is signing with chelsea and the one who stuck with us is playing in the football netherworld. at his age, this contract was the one to define his career...5 years too early to be put out to pasture in MLS. sad sad day for soccer in canada...im gut wrenched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueviking Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by villus Granted I think this could do alot to grow the game in Canada. I still think he should wait, lots of clubs will come calling in the near future and he should be in a top tier league. i dont think it will do anything for soccer in canada...99% of canadians cant name a single player in MLS (except beckham), nevermind a single player on tfc (or that there even is a tfc)...it will be the same after deguzman comes.... having a canadian playing on the biggest stage in the world was a source of pride for all canadian soccer fans...an inspiration to young players who might strive to follow him...canadians at the highest level does more to advance the game in this country than anything else...when i talk about soccer with people they generally think that there are no canadians playing in europe...nevermind a good player in the best league... it would be different if we had dozens of guys in the top leagues, and one came back home to play for tfc...we are now left without a single player playing in either of the top 2 leagues in the world...that hurts canadian soccer more than it helps having a player playing in what most canadians consider to be a minor league...if they even know that it exists. julian gave canada exposure at the highest level, like nobody else did...not only to fans, but to scouts and managers of teams in europe who might consider canadian talent based on their exposure to players like deguzman....it isnt a coincidence that it seems the same teams in europe sign canadian players (ipswich, fulham)...exposure at that level has a snowball effect...if european teams become comfortable with the level of canadian talent, they will be more inclined to give the next canadian a chance....having our best player in a league that europeans consider one step above beer league does nothing to improve their perception of our talent level. when a bosnian fan says there are no good canadian players, its hard to point to an MLS player in rebuttal...a player in la liga gave immediate credibility to the level of soccer players who come from canada...sadly, that is the perception not only from europeans but from north americans as well....you are not considered a great player unless you play in europe. hopefully he, like beckham quickly realizes the calibre of play in mls and heads back to europe shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmynow Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I think the argument that "growing up in a soccer country makes you a better player" is a good one. I disagree, however, that an excellent, mature player who is almost 29 years old (by 29 most players are what they are) will suddenly see a major drop off in ability/effectiveness.. a drop off that will significantly affect his national team. I haven't seen any dropoff, for example, in the play of Blanco in MLS. Indeed, he got called back to the national team and performed well. Plus, the Canadian team HAD a Euro-De Guzman and bombed out. Even if he lost a bit of an edge, so what? He'll still be great and still be one of the best players on the team. It's the rest of the team and the coaching and the management that I'd be worried about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one92fifth Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 It can't hurt to have him playing in the Eastern Time Zone. Less wear and tear for an older body. Assuming of course we'll be playing national team games anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Well.....not good news.....for the NATIONAL team. For TFC it's brilliant. For JDG personally and financially it's most likely outstanding as well. Let's not kid ourselves. Players today play for themselves and whatever contract they can get for the most part. Only those that are making huge money regardless of club, can accept "lesser" contracts to play for the club of their choice. National program benefits are of secondary concern, most definitely. We all want to see JDG in bundesliga, LA liga, premier league etc....but he isn't. He'll play with his friends, in an attacking role I assume. He'll be a playmaker for certain. De Ro, Barrett, Gerba etc will all benefit immensely from his service and the space he creates for them. Now, if he is REALLY concerned about national team progress he'd do a Becks and go train with a top club, if not go on loan to them in the January window. I am doubtful of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 quote:Originally posted by jimmynow I think the argument that "growing up in a soccer country makes you a better player" is a good one. I disagree, however, that an excellent, mature player who is almost 29 years old (by 29 most players are what they are) will suddenly see a major drop off in ability/effectiveness.. a drop off that will significantly affect his national team. Agree on the 29 year old being as good as they are ever going to be bit. Maybe worth bearing in mind beyond that that Canada and the United States actually are soccer countries nowadays at least where youth soccer participation is concerned. Still a long way to go in getting the development system right in the 16 to 22 sort of age range but it's slowly getting there so North America and MLS shouldn't be dismissed as a complete wasteland in soccer terms. Also worth bearing in mind maybe that before it became the norm for the world's top players to gravitate towards three or four top leagues at the club level some of Europe's smaller leagues produced truly world class players who spent the prime of their career playing for relatively small and obscure clubs. Antonin Panenka with Bohemians Prague and Czechoslovakia and Grzegorz Lato with Stal Mielec and Poland come to mind for example. The you haven't made it as a player if you are not playing in the Premiership, La Liga or serie A sort of mentality is mainly related to money and prestige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 quote:Originally posted by trueviking soon we will find out his brother is signing with chelsea Define "soon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 One more great Robbie Champion returns,our boy from Scarborough.Welcome back Julian you are one amazing gem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtl-supporter23 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 While TFC fans might be extatic at a potential deal, what would this meen for our MNT? Does it concern anyone else that our supposed top player play on the same club team in the MLS. What does that say to us as a developing futbol country... Not to mention that this also kills me as an Impact supporter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 quote:Originally posted by mtl-supporter23 While TFC fans might be extatic at a potential deal, what would this meen for our MNT? Does it concern anyone else that our supposed top player play on the same club team in the MLS. What does that say to us as a developing futbol country... Not to mention that this also kills me as an Impact supporter... I think Julian should have found a job in Europe even if it meant less money to keep furthering as a player. However it is good for soccer in this country because now everyone has a chance to see our best player live almost every week on regular TV. TFC is starting to do things we wanted when they were first announced, repatriate players and develop player(s) (Just Attakora now but I still have some hope for Gala). I think this move for the national team is two steps back because our best player is not at a high level. But it is one step in the right direction having our best players or at least some of them playing on domestic teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 quote:Originally posted by mtl-supporter23 What does that say to us as a developing futbol country... That we are moving towards the sort of roster composition that the country that usually finishes third in CONCACAF behind the United States and Mexico tends to have:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Rica_national_football_team#Current_squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 I still can't believe Julian is thinking about TFC. TFC players will play 6 more games and after that they won't play until March 2010. I assume that because I don't believe anymore on TFC chances in making the playoffs. So, assuming Julian signs for TFC and TFC doesn't make the playoffs, he would be playing only 6 club games between June 2009 and March 2010? I don't believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Some of you guys are insane if you think that this will have ANY effect on the national team. Canada's next important game is when, another two years? Three years until WCQ? At which point Julian will be 30 or 31 and may had already decided to come home (he was always going to play for TFC at some point, he is very passionate about the club as a fan). Regardless, nothing is even set and if he does sign, it could just be for the rest of the season for all we know. If so, he could easily return to Europe if the interest is there. Anything is better than sitting around not playing, though. Obviously as a TFC supporter I'd be ecstatic to have a player who would instantly become the best in the league upon signing, but as a Canadian supporter as well I don't really see this as an end of the world scenario, at least until all the details are clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 JDG moving to TFC might actually be tremendously beneficial for Canada by allowing Julian to truly develop as an attacking midfielder, a role he has always been denied in Europe, and the one role Canada could use him in the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Since I am bored create your TFC line up with JDG in the line up. Since I am bored create your TFC line up with JDG in the line up. -----------------------Gerba---------------------- --------------------De Guzman-------------------- (since people want him in an attacking role) Brennan---------------------------------De Rosario ----------Guevara---------------Cronin------------ -------Attakora-------Serioux--------Wynne-------- ------------------------Frei------------------------ 1. Edwards 2. Barrett 3. Dichio 4. Vitti 5. Garcia 6. Sanyang 7. Gómez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlimus Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 I´ve seen TFC live more times than I´ve watched a full game on tv (3-1) so I honestly can´t comment on there tactical game too much. JDG however, is an out and out holding mid. His quality is such that I´m sure he´d have no trouble switching over in a league like the MLS, but I don´t understand why so many people here are talking like he´s been literally held back in Europe to a position where he was needed more. Julian is an excellent holding mid, but honestly I´ve never seen too much to support the idea that he´d be better further up the field. He sure misses his fair share of long range shots, and I´m not talking close ones. Again, I´m not saying that he couldn´t sit behind the striker(s) on TFC, of course he could, but it looks as though some people here think that he should have been doing that all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 quote:Originally posted by earlimus I´ve seen TFC live more times than I´ve watched a full game on tv (3-1) so I honestly can´t comment on there tactical game too much. JDG however, is an out and out holding mid. His quality is such that I´m sure he´d have no trouble switching over in a league like the MLS, but I don´t understand why so many people here are talking like he´s been literally held back in Europe to a position where he was needed more. Julian is an excellent holding mid, but honestly I´ve never seen too much to support the idea that he´d be better further up the field. He sure misses his fair share of long range shots, and I´m not talking close ones. Again, I´m not saying that he couldn´t sit behind the striker(s) on TFC, of course he could, but it looks as though some people here think that he should have been doing that all along. When Julian was playing in Germany he was playing in a more offensive position and developing some decent skills in directing and controlling an attack. Every time he played for the national team in this era he seemed a bit better at this and looked to be developing into the midfield general Canada needs. His skills have definitely improved in many areas in Spain but in offensive play he seems to have regressed since he rarely gets much oportunity to be a creative or dominant player in La Liga. With the national team we see flashes of his offensive ability but he is not the dominant player we need. He has the talent to play much more offensively but it needs to be developed and I don't think he will have the chance to do this in either La Liga or EPL. For this reason I would prefer him to play in the Bundesliga which is still a high level but would use him more in the role we need him to play for the national team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 quote:Originally posted by finchster Since I am bored create your TFC line up with JDG in the line up. Since I am bored create your TFC line up with JDG in the line up. -----------------------Gerba---------------------- --------------------De Guzman-------------------- (since people want him in an attacking role) Brennan---------------------------------De Rosario ----------Guevara---------------Cronin------------ -------Attakora-------Serioux--------Wynne-------- ------------------------Frei------------------------ 1. Edwards 2. Barrett 3. Dichio 4. Vitti 5. Garcia 6. Sanyang 7. Gómez Who got red carded?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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