De Guzmán Next Year

[RS]

I know how I can be happy with it.

[trueviking]

i suppose if you are an MLS fan...wasnt he one of the outspoken opponents to the plastic field?...i wonder if they have assured him that grass will appear in the off season?

who would have guessed this time last year with gerba sitting on the subs bench for a team in the fourth division of english football and JDG starting for a mid table side in La Liga, that today they would be playing on the same team....either one has made a huge step up the ladder or one has taken a huge step backwards.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by trueviking

i suppose if you are an MLS fan...wasnt he one of the outspoken opponents to the plastic field?...i wonder if they have assured him that grass will appear in the off season?

who would have guessed this time last year with gerba sitting on the subs bench for a team in league two and JDG starting for a mid table side in La Liga, that today they would be playing on the same team.

TFC is my team, so yeah, the news that we'll likely be getting the best player in the league (and the best Canadian) is great to me.

JDG being outspoken about the surface is just one more tool for MLSE to get it replaced by grass.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

I think people fail to see the great news this is.

with Vancouver about to make the jump into the MLS and Montreal close to it as well.

We could finally be seeing us start to be able to create a soccer atmosphere and really develop our own players. The more we get our good players to come back here the better it will be to hang on to guys and make sure they compete as canadians in international play instead of their aopted country that developed them as players.

This is good news for the progress of Canadian football. Canada will never be able to progess if we don't develop our players at home.

[superbrad]

I think its almost laughable that people don't see this as good news. Our best player returning from Europe to play at home in a professional division. 20 years ago we would have never envisioned this as even possible. After TFC - and MLS bound Vancouver and Montreal, this is the laying of the foundation for domestic players to STAY at home. Something that in my humble opinion, should be celebrated.

[earlimus]

It's a tricky issue because aside from full out TFC fans who don't give a toss about the national team (which we all do), there's pros and cons to both sides.

You fail to see the other side's point of view? If all of our players decide to stay in the MLS instead of europe, when the opportunity arises, our national teams will be even more screwed.

To yet again make a comparison, you really think that a kickass hockey player, from oh lets say... Ethiopia, should stay in his mickey mouse league, when he has an opportunity to play on the second line of an NHL team?

I agree that there are a lot of positive things to take away from JDG coming home, but give me a break. Who the hell wants Canadians who have the talent to play in top leagues to stay in the MLS? Should Sidney Crosby have stayed in some Halifax league because it would have better served the game in Nova Scotia?

The MLS is a professional division. A really low skilled, attended, and regarded one.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:A really low skilled, attended, and regarded one.

Really is time that people moved beyond these dated attitudes and came to grips with the fact that high level pro soccer is now part of the Canadian sports landscape and that an increasing portion of the CMNT is going to be based in Canada in the years ahead given the fact that the Whitecaps and Impact (hopefully) will soon be part of MLS as well. MLS may not be on a par with La Liga and the Premiership just yet but it's as good as or better than plenty of top tiered European leagues that will be providing players to the World Cup in South Africa next summer and draws comparable or bigger crowds as well. As for it being lowly regarded it's worth noting that Amadou Sanyang is already drawing interest from top Dutch and French clubs after a handful of games for TFC. PSV Eindhoven obviously think it's worth keeping close tabs on MLS.

[gator]

MLS is improving every year, it's obviously not the EPL but I don't think it is as poor as some people make it out to be! There are many examples of good players from top leagues coming over and not dominating like some feel they should! IMHO this league is on its' way up and JDG joining TFC can only be good! The US national team can draw many MLS players and do quite well! JDG has had a good run in one of Europes' top leagues and now we get to watch him play on home soil, how can that be bad? It's been pointed out before many of our Concacaf rivals field teams comprised mostly of players from their domestic leagues! Some posters are going to let their TFC hate get in the way of objectivity!

[Michael Crampton]

I don't know if it's been mentioned but one other possible benefit for Canada is that home games in Toronto have just become even more marketable. Get grass in BMO and Canada could be playing three or four home friendlies there a year with the pitch of seeing names that matter in the T.O. soccer market - DeGuz and DeRo - suit up for Canada. Not only would our team actually get to play together in a place where we could see them more often but the CSA might actually make some money (if they could actually organize anything).

The biggest, most important wildcard in this though is TFC. Can they become successful? JDG becoming a Canadian soccer icon (who can promote the national team beyond the base) demands that they actually start winning. Surely he can help with that but he won't be able to do it on his own. Heck, LA finished second last with Donovan and Beckham last year! And "winning" doesn't mean sneaking into the play-offs. It means consistently being in the top five clubs in the league over the next few years, competing for the Supporters Shield all season, and being legitimate play-off contenders. Anything less and his reputation will be diminished rather than burnished with the (all-important) "convertible" soccer fans in this country.

Finally, "death of Canadian soccer" what? I wasn't a huge supporter of MLS coming to Canada even though I understoof the oppurtunity it presented but who would have said five years ago that a CANADIAN CLUB could offer our national team's best player more money than he could find in Europe? You would have been laughed on the board and considered no more reasonable than Spiral! The game is growing as a spectator sport and becoming a significant cultural force in our nation's biggest cities. Spreading it beyond them will take more time, more clubs, and probably a successful national team but unless TFC really botches things - not impossible - we're heading in the right direction.

And who's not more excited for next year's Canadian Championship?

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by earlimus

To yet again make a comparison, you really think that a kickass hockey player, from oh lets say... Ethiopia, should stay in his mickey mouse league, when he has an opportunity to play on the second line of an NHL team?

I agree that there are a lot of positive things to take away from JDG coming home, but give me a break. Who the hell wants Canadians who have the talent to play in top leagues to stay in the MLS? Should Sidney Crosby have stayed in some Halifax league because it would have better served the game in Nova Scotia?

If you think that MLS is that much if a "Bush league" ( comparable to Hockey in Ethiopia), then there is not much that I can say to that. But what I find interesting is: Did you feel the same way about the USL when the Lynx were around? Or what about the the CSL of the 1990's? Or, what about the NASL of the seventies and eighties?

Where do all of these stack up?

No one can say with any definitive certainly where the competitive level of the league stacks up against other championships around the globe. But to paraphrase Grant Wahl, its not the top three or four in UEFA, but its better then most. And dont forget the bottoms rungs of the ladder in even the big three are pretty much interchangeale with the second tier.

[superbrad]

The pundits at FIFA have always indicated that national soccer is directly related to the standard of the national league. In Canada, the highest level is MLS. De Guzman's homecoming is one link in the ongoing development of our game. That development has just leaped to a new level because of his return. We've never had an opportunity for a player of his caliber to play in Canada. Its another small leap for Canadian soccer...NHL comparisons do not hold water. There are so many high quality leagues of soccer as opposed to one high quality hockey league, with a few other sub-par leagues mixed in.

[RS]

I'm seeing a lot of the patented Canadian self-hate in this thread. The Swiss league is better than MLS simply because it is in Europe? Really?

If Julian were 23, then yes, going to TFC would be a very bad career move. But at 28, with no national team games of importance for three years, and no European team willing to give him more than a one year deal, De Guzman chose home and the security of a much more lucrative three-year (plus the remainder of this year) deal.

It's not the end of the world, and Julian is not going to forget how to play soccer.

[jonovision]

For me, the best possible outcome of this situation is that JDG tears up MLS for a year or so, and a team from a big European league takes notice pays a load of money to TFC (or is it MLS) for his services.

I'm not sure, though, whether teams in MLS really benefit much from selling on a player under the salary cap and the MLS collective model. Can someone fill me in?

[Marc]

Agreed - I would have personally preferred him to be playing in Spain, but I don't think this is a bad move for the Nats as some have suggested.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

I'm seeing a lot of the patented Canadian self-hate in this thread. The Swiss league is better than MLS simply because it is in Europe? Really?

If Julian were 23, then yes, going to TFC would be a very bad career move. But at 28, with no national team games of importance for three years, and no European team willing to give him more than a one year deal, De Guzman chose home and the security of a much more lucrative three-year (plus the remainder of this year) deal.

It's not the end of the world, and Julian is not going to forget how to play soccer.

Agreed 100%, Rudi.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by jonovision

For me, the best possible outcome of this situation is that JDG tears up MLS for a year or so, and a team from a big European league takes notice pays a load of money to TFC (or is it MLS) for his services.

I'm not sure, though, whether teams in MLS really benefit much from selling on a player under the salary cap and the MLS collective model. Can someone fill me in?

It's tricky, because DP's are different from regular players.

When TFC sold Mo Edu to Rangers, the league took 1/3 of the transfer fee, with TFC getting the remaining 2/3rds. $500,000 of that were to be used as allocation money (which can be used on player salaries, transfer fees, bonuses, etc.) while the rest has to be used on "club infrastructure".

Essentially, the league holds the money (which is around $3 million) and the club presents a case to the league for using that money to improve the club. It can be by the building of physical structures, ploughing money into the Academy, or whatever. It cannot be used on player personnel and it can't simply be pocketed by the team owners.

In the Edu case, MLSE has earmarked the funds for grass at BMO. Of course they need to jump through the requisite political hoops to get the city to approve it, but the plan is in place.

Since DPs have their salary paid for by the club and league, the rules are a bit different. No DP has been sold yet, but Beckham has been loaned to AC Milan for a fee ($10 million). By all reports, the lion's share of that loan fee went directly to the LA Galaxy.\

Using that precedent, if TFC were to sell Julian, the team itself would keep most, if not all, of the transfer fee. Although I'm sure the league has rules restricting what they can do with it.

[earlimus]

For my part there's no self hate whatsoever. I agree that there are many good things to take away from De Guz coming to Toronto. All of the points made about it have validity.

The MLS IS getting better all the time. I'm actually very happy to see so many of you guys defending it. I also acknowledge all of the reasons for JDG coming home. The Canadian game does need him. However, we need our top guys in the top leagues. In a perfect world, I suppose the ideal thing would be to have our top guys going over to Europe's big teams/leagues to play during the peak years, and returning home for their twilight ones.

The cold hard truth is, any Canadian player that can play on a top team, should. Bottom line. JDG would not be the player that he is had he never gone to Europe as a teenager. We all spoke about that a few pages back on this thread, so I don't want to retrace my steps, but it's the unfortunate truth.

Anyways, that's just my two cents. I will be happy and proud to see the guy come home to sport his city's colours. It is beneficial to the game here in so many ways. I think everyone here agrees on that, some of us just see the benefits on him carrying our flag on the other side of the pond.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by earlimus

The cold hard truth is, any Canadian player that can play on a top team, should. Bottom line. JDG would not be the player that he is had he never gone to Europe as a teenager. We all spoke about that a few pages back on this thread, so I don't want to retrace my steps, but it's the unfortunate truth.

I do agree with this, but the circumstances say otherwise.

[gator]

Imagine the potential friendlies at BMO once they get grass installed, you could see 3 or 4 players from TFC suiting up for Canada! To me this is a good thing, you are guaranteed a large crowd, let's just hope the grass is in next season and they do line up some friendlies there! This could be the beginning of a real exciting time for both TFC and the MNT! On a sidenote, I really don't think JDG would have signed with TFC without knowing grass was to be installed next season as he was outspoken about the MNT playing on the Fieldturf!

[Guest Ed]

Congrats to Julian coming home. This step will be beneficial for our men's team so I am quite happy with it. The more players playing at the highest level in North America, the better for us in the long run.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by earlimus

[

The cold hard truth is, any Canadian player that can play on a top team, should. Bottom line. JDG would not be the player that he is had he never gone to Europe as a teenager. We all spoke about that a few pages back on this thread, so I don't want to retrace my steps, but it's the unfortunate truth.

Tell that the the U.S. national team:

http://www.24thminute.com/2009/09/what-does-de-guzmans-move-mean-for.html

[jonovision]

Only 3 of 11 of the US MNT's starters against El Salvador play in MLS. Clearly the league has done wonders for their depth and development, but that doesn't mean all the best American players need to be playing there.

There are reasons to be in favour of JDG going to TFC (IMO the bad outweigh the good, but I understand the arguments) but this is not one of them.

I know part of what you are saying here is that now it is not necessary for a guy like de Guzman to go to Europe as a teenager, and you are right. But what earlimus says still holds true:

quote:

The cold hard truth is, any Canadian player that can play on a top team, should.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by jonovision

Only 3 of 11 of the US MNT's starters against El Salvador play in MLS. Clearly the league has done wonders for their depth and development, but that doesn't mean all the best American players need to be playing there.

There are reasons to be in favour of JDG going to TFC (IMO the bad outweigh the good, but I understand the arguments) but this is not one of them.

I know part of what you are saying here is that now it is not necessary for a guy like de Guzman to go to Europe as a teenager, and you are right. But what earlimus says still holds true:

But if the choice is between, say, Holland and MLS...then does the cost/benefit change?

Don't get me wrong. I wanted JDG in Spain. Yes, even more than I wanted him in Toronto. But, well, you know why I think that didn't work out.

I do, however, look forward to this debate in two years time when its Rob Friend or Ian Hume or Hutch or... that we are talking about and its Vancouver that is the MLS team. I wonder if some opinions will soften when it’s their team that is benefiting (This is a general comment, not directed at you as an individual J)

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

I do, however, look forward to this debate in two years time when its Rob Friend or Ian Hume or Hutch or...

I absolutely look forward to the time when we can talk about a player like Friend or Hume being at the same level as de Guzman.

[loyola]

MediaGuy, as far as I know earlimus is a TFC fan and I think jpg75 is as well, so I doubt it has much to do with some anti-TFC stuff that we sometimes can read here. It's just a perception from Canada first fan.