Toronto FC -Roster Dance

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

I have to admit that I am still confused by the MLS' Soviet Central Planning system as it relates to salaries and player budgets.

Phew, nice to know that I am not alone . There is touch of irony there given that its origins are in America, the land of opportunity. Whereas in the rest of the socialist world, the game is governed by the rules of the Wild Wild west where its dog eat dog.

For example, I was surprised when I was told by a TFC club official that the New England Revs managed to get more cap space and spending freedom when Dempsey was tranferred. I dont see the logic given that such a manoeuvre would seem to encourage transfers and devaluing the product on the pitch. Further confusing, is the fact that its the league ( rather than the club) who negociates with the European club. So why is the leaugue involved in a finacial transaction that will have benefit or repercussions for only one club.

Having said that, I understand what they're facing in the bigger picture. Clearly, Garber sounds like a pretty bright guy and these guys ( MLS) have learned alot from history in so far as soccer in North America. They also have the benefit of look at the Global game from afar and being one step removed. Thus knowing what works well in the game and what doesn't. There is benefit that in that in north america that you can start something with a clean sheet whereas in the rest of the world, change for the good of the fans and sport is difficult given the politics and and vested interest.

So, I support what they are doing for the benefit of the long term. But, yeah, I am confused.

[Captain Spaulding]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Phew, nice to know that I am not alone . There is touch of irony there given that its origins are in America, the land of opportunity. Whereas in the rest of the socialist world, the game is governed by the rules of the Wild Wild west where its dog eat dog.

...

Of course that's pretty much true of all North American Major League sports, with the NFL being the the most perfected model.

[KAS]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I was aware of Mo's intentions to play Brennan in midfield, and I completely agree with the call. I wrote his name after Pozniak's because Brennan can play there, and if I only mentioned one LB choice, then someone here would suggest getting this American guy as back-up. I don't want this guy for TFC, I think the Canadian players like Pozniak and Brennan (*IF* needed there) can do the job.

Brennan in front of Pozniak on the left side works for me.

[KAS]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Phew, nice to know that I am not alone . There is touch of irony there given that its origins are in America, the land of opportunity. Whereas in the rest of the socialist world, the game is governed by the rules of the Wild Wild west where its dog eat dog.

For example, I was surprised when I was told by a TFC club official that the New England Revs managed to get more cap space and spending freedom when Dempsey was tranferred. I dont see the logic given that such a manoeuvre would seem to encourage transfers and devaluing the product on the pitch. Further confusing, is the fact that its the league ( rather than the club) who negociates with the European club. So why is the leaugue involved in a finacial transaction that will have benefit or repercussions for only one club.

Well, this is the perfect forum to ask. What would you like to know?

Each team has an allocation budget which can be used for transfer fees, among other things. I think TFC started around $1.3M (USD), and are probably around $600-700K now. So TFC could buy someone another player from Norway if they wanted. The money could also cover salaries that take the team's payroll over the cap (this is different from the DP rule). So, TFC could get this guy if they wanted to and were willing to sacrifice their allocation funds.

MLS sells the players to Europe because it is MLS, not the clubs (which are 51% owned by MLS anyways) that own the player contracts. Most of the money goes to the league, which benefits all the teams, but New England do get some compensation to make up for the fact that they are obviously the most impacted by the sale. This was necessary in order to get the teams to establish academies as the teams now have a financial incentive to produce their own talent and bring money to the league through transfers to Europe. The mention of more cap room might just be a reference to removing Dempsey's salary from the team payroll, but New England would have received extra allocation money (the "spending freedom") for the sale.

[jpg75]

To clarify on what KAS said, the money from the sale of Dempsey does not give them more to spend on player salaries or "cap room" unless you count removing Dempseys' $85K from the books as significant cap savings. New England will receive 2/3 of the transfer funds MLS garners from the sale of Dempsey and can only use this money for future purchases. That is, the funds will not be part of the "allocation funds" since those can be used to make up the difference when a team goes over the cap. The monies from transfers will only go to player purchases.

[Massive Attack]

The evil soccer hating Toronto Sun wrote another article on TFC today:

http://torontosun.ca/Sports/2007/02/20/3647514-sun.html

They mention that 3 international players (South African Junaid Hartley, Jamaican Garfield Reid and Colombian Hector Hurtado) where cut.

It also mentions that TFC is looking to sign some of the Canadian U-20 players they played against.

[Canuck Oranje]

Thanks for the explanation on that part. It still seems too directed to me.

Another question, what about loan deals where an MLS team is the recipient and the team owning the contract agrees to pay part of the salary? Can it be done? If it can be done, how much get put towards the salary cap? For example, what if TFC were to convince Newcastle that they were a loan-out option for Edgar for a year and Newcastle held a contract that was too rich for the MLS but the deal was done in a salary sharing arrangement?

Second question. Who owns the rights to academy players if no salaries are being paid? It is conceivable that some of these players could be placed in Europe without playing a game in the MLS.

quote:Originally posted by KAS

Well, this is the perfect forum to ask. What would you like to know?

Each team has an allocation budget which can be used for transfer fees, among other things. I think TFC started around $1.3M (USD), and are probably around $600-700K now. So TFC could buy someone another player from Norway if they wanted. The money could also cover salaries that take the team's payroll over the cap (this is different from the DP rule). So, TFC could get this guy if they wanted to and were willing to sacrifice their allocation funds.

MLS sells the players to Europe because it is MLS, not the clubs (which are 51% owned by MLS anyways) that own the player contracts. Most of the money goes to the league, which benefits all the teams, but New England do get some compensation to make up for the fact that they are obviously the most impacted by the sale. This was necessary in order to get the teams to establish academies as the teams now have a financial incentive to produce their own talent and bring money to the league through transfers to Europe. The mention of more cap room might just be a reference to removing Dempsey's salary from the team payroll, but New England would have received extra allocation money (the "spending freedom") for the sale.

[nolando]

For the linkless...

FC coach: Get better or go home

Johnson's first cuts includes Hartley

By DEAN MCNULTY, SUN MEDIA

SUNRISE, Fla. -- Toronto FC coach Mo Johnston laid it on the line for players at the first year Major League Soccer team's outdoor training centre yesterday in this suburb of Miami: Get better or go home.

And after a 2-1 loss to the Canadian under-20 squad, Johnston wasted no time showing he meant what he said.

Cut from the team yesterday were South African Junaid Hartley, Jamaican Garfield Reid and Colombian Hector Hurtado.

"All the guys that were on trial never showed a lot," Johnston said. "There was four or five of them. They just aren't good enough."

The coach, however, said that the result of the friendly against the Canadian kids shouldn't be seen as a barometer of where the team is in its second week of training in the Florida sunshine.

"This is not about results for me," Johnston said. "The point of this camp is getting guys in here and getting a look at them."

Hartley had come to Johnston's attention because of his dribbling ability and his reputation as a spectacular, but troubled playmaker.

He had made the rounds of premiership teams in South Africa before wearing out his welcome.

Johnston said it was clear that Hartley's skills had deteriorated significantly.

"We gave him a last shot (yesterday) just to see what he had and obviously he had nothing," Johnston said.

If there was anything yesterday that impressed the Toronto coach it was the play of the under-20s.

With goals from Edmonton's Tos Ricketts and Montreal's Christian Nunez the under-20s kept constant pressure on the Toronto professionals.

"I was impressed with the under-20s," Johnston said. "We are looking to sign some of them as well."

The lone Toronto goal came off the foot of Chris Pozniak, one of the Canadian bright lights on the team.

Johnston has said from the very start of camp that he wants the Canadian kids to succeed because he feels it is important to have that local flavour on the club.

"There are some Canadians abroad who we would like to have," he said. "But circumstances being what they are, those players are not readily available."

Two other Canadians who have drawn good reviews from the coach are Richard Asante, of North York, and London, Ontario's Tyler Hemming.

Hemming did not play yesterday, however, as he is nursing a strained hamstring.

And Toronto's No. 1 MLS draft pick Maurice Edu said yesterday he'll be out another four to five weeks recovering from a fractured pelvis.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

"All the guys that were on trial never showed a lot," Johnston said. "There was four or five of them. They just aren't good enough."

====

"We gave him a last shot (yesterday) just to see what he had and obviously he had nothing," Johnston said.

Ouch. Talk about not beating around the bush. It's actually kinda refreshing hearing a coach be so blunt instead of coddling players or easing off for the media.

[VPjr]

I am curious where Edu picked up this broken pelvic bone. Has that ever been discussed by anyone at TFC.

Has Conor Casey played yet in scrimmages?

What about Esky?

There really isn't enough news coming out of this camp IMO.

Although I am pleased to see that the Toronto Sun has a reporter at camp, it would be nice if the team's PR people would throw some more daily updates on the website, especially updating the status of all the players at the camp. I would take anything at this point. I am usually really patient but I want to learn more about this team and we really aren't getting much.

[RS]

Casey is there, don;t know if he's played yet.

Esky's getting over a knee injury, should be good to go within 2 weeks or so. O'Brien strained his back, Cancela picked up a knock as well.

[Gian-Luca]

I hope MC2 sticks - always thought he had lots of skill, but that his size & stature weren't really suited to the German game, probably contributing to being stuck in the 3rd & 4th divisions over there. He should do much better in the MLS & is another example of the kind of player I'd rather see playing here than in a lower European division.

[Guest Ed]

I don't exactly see how 'size and stature' not suited to the 'German' game translates into MLS opportunities. MLS can get pretty physical with some atrocious tackling sometimes punished (and sometimes not).

Maycoll got a bit sidetracked there in Germany, had some off field issues and bad injuries to deal with. Hopefully this will be a fresh start for him as he certainly showed some potential 4 or 5 years ago now. This is exactly the type of player I would like to see get an opportunity at least, rather than 2nd tier American players.

I see some talk of Hastings being approached on the fan boards and a fair amount of crap slung his way. And from the same guys who cheer for Ante (here, let's put a nice hospital ball back to the keeper... oh darn ... there goes the home win we needed against Honduras) Jazic. Hard to figure why Hastings is considered so poor yet players like Jazic (who has never impressed to date on the nats) and DeVos (not exactly a Brazilian moving the ball out of the back) are generally praised.

[loyola]

I praised DeVos for his dedication, work ethic and the fact that he has always been answering the call by Canadian coaches. His play for Canada has always been very good and I don't remember him making too many mistakes. I don't think he's been praised by many fans for his fancy footwork, so I don't know where you got that.

I'm not a big Hastings fans but the fact that he's been a starter in the SPL lately suggest that he could do well in the MLS. He can also be an emergency call up for Canada if we struggles with injuries at left back.

Like everybody else, I'm quite happy to see Maycoll reappearing on the map, that's why I think we need TFC for guys like him, Pozniak, Braz, Sutton, Reda and let's hope a few more to have a chance to play at an higher level. Who's left in Europe second tier leagues and young enough to be the next Maycoll for TFC?

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Who's left in Europe second tier leagues and young enough to be the next Maycoll for TFC?

Well, I'll be the first one to answer my own question. Here's a list of 6 players I would like to see with TFC and think there's a realistic chance of seeing them (I don't know how much they make, so that list is regardless of their salaries), so no Johnson or Edgar in this list:

Dave Simpson

Ali Gerba

Blerim Rrustemi (how old is he?)

Rocco Placentino

Sandro Grande

Rhian Dodds

[Guest Ed]

Loyola, whenever Hastings is mentioned in regard to our nats, the 'thump and run', 'kick and chase', 'longball' comments come up. He seems unfairly singled out for that style of play, which all I'm saying. He seems to get more than his fair share of abuse for his national team appearances which I find unusual as none of our backs has really excelled in the last 10 years or so. Edgar and Atiba (if he plays there) might rectify that.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Well, I'll be the first one to answer my own question. Here's a list of 6 players I would like to see with TFC and think there's a realistic chance of seeing them (I don't know how much they make, so that list is regardless of their salaries), so no Johnson or Edgar in this list:

Dave Simpson

Ali Gerba

Blerim Rrustemi (how old is he?)

Rocco Placentino

Sandro Grande

Rhian Dodds

Rrustemi turns 24 in April. He's in a good spot right now but his contract expires end of season. I don't have a clue what his plans are. If he can get signed again in Germany, why take a cut in pay for MLS?

[youllneverwalkalone]

Regarding Loyola's post above where he mention Rhian, anybody know why Jaime Dodds isn't trying out?

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

I don't exactly see how 'size and stature' not suited to the 'German' game translates into MLS opportunities. MLS can get pretty physical with some atrocious tackling sometimes punished (and sometimes not).

I wasn't thinking so much of illegal tackles but legal ones where the (generally fairly large in comparison to players of MC's stature) players simply are able to bundle the much-smaller players off the ball due to superior size. True that I haven't seen MC2 play any games in the German 3rd or 4th division, but I can distinctly remember how much better he played against the likes of the US, Costa Rica, Honduras & Mexico (at various levels) than he did against Germany (also at various levels). I expect he would face a lot more of the former than the latter in the MLS, and I expect he would fare better as a result.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

Rrustemi turns 24 in April. He's in a good spot right now but his contract expires end of season. I don't have a clue what his plans are. If he can get signed again in Germany, why take a cut in pay for MLS?

That's fairly young for a defender so I think we should have a look at him in the future (camp or game).

The list was regardless of salaries since I've no idea of how much those guys makes. If one of these players finds himself out of contract TFC could be a nice place for them but of course If they can make it in Europe they're better staying there.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

Rrustemi turns 24 in April. He's in a good spot right now but his contract expires end of season. I don't have a clue what his plans are. If he can get signed again in Germany, why take a cut in pay for MLS?

That's fairly young for a defender so I think we should have a look at him in the future (camp or game).

The list was regardless of salaries since I've no idea of how much those guys makes. If one of these players finds himself out of contract TFC could be a nice place for them but of course If they can make it in Europe they're better staying there.

[nolando]

I agree that Hastings would be a marginal player on either the latest TFC roster or on any of the upcoming MNT rosters. However, it is kinds funny that there aren't more people who love him and give him a little more respect for his famous Gold Cup goal (his golden moment, no?) if for no other reason. If a Leafs or Canucks player had scored an equally important goal, but had been equally as marginal a player I think a certain number of fans would always hail him a hero, or at least a fan favourite. Where's the love for Hastings? (A question I pose to myself as well, incidentally)

[Cheeta]

I think Hastings finds himself loveless in these parts because he was realy, realy bad there towards Holgers final hours but Holger just kept picking him so everyone got a good, long, up-close look at how realy, realy bad poor Richard was there for a period. That lasting mental image has to be burned into the Voyageur's collective memmory.

But, that was a long time ago already. And outside of the couple or three SPL followers on this site who catch Inverness occasionaly through webcasts has anyone else seen him play for more than 5 minutes over the last few years? Didn't think so.

He has two good seasons with Inverness and earned a new contract. And I think he'd be all right as a fullback in MLS.

Good pace (important in MLS), good field vision, a decent left footer. His gambling streak has been shamed out of him, and he can strike a ball now and again. You know the SPL has been toughening him up to-boot so MLS may be a good fit for him. No way that he'll ever be mistaken for Roberto Carlos out there but if Adam Braz is flash enough for TFC's last line than sure as **** Richard Hastings fits the bill.

[VPjr]

In some media report, I read that Maycoll is El Salvadoran. I was under the impression he was Canadian. I have read that he is a Toronto native. Does he have a Canadian passport? has he been capped by the MNT at any level?

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

In some media report, I read that Maycoll is El Salvadoran. I was under the impression he was Canadian. I have read that he is a Toronto native. Does he have a Canadian passport? has he been capped by the MNT at any level?

He played with the U-20's in 2000/2001 (maybe with other youth teams, I don't know). He played a few times with Canada MNT, I think he scored a goal against Lybia a few years ago.

Here's more infos about him:

http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/nationals/profile.asp?id=85&sub=3