Canada B National Team Roster?

[Stoppage Time]

If Canada put a B team together for a friendly or two (yes, unlikely), who might be involved? Let's limit to players with no or very few A caps for Canada.

Some possibilities include: 

Loturi, Abzi, Zator, Marshall-Rutty, M. Choiniere, Farsi, McGill, Norman Jr., Rea, Heibert, Hasal, L. Petrasso, Priso, Nelson, Ahmed, Millar, 

and who else??

[dyslexic nam]

Corbeanu, Jebbo (if he would accept), I would argue Akinola is potentially a B team striker, McNaughton, Shaff, Russell-Rowe is a guy I’d like to see called up, maybe Raposo, and prob a bunch more.  There are lots of guys who are on the running for that sort of squad - you basically take our last 60 man roster, strike through some of the guys who are obviously well down the d path chart, and see what you have left.  It would be more instructive to sort by position to see where the gaps are.  I think we would see something pretty similar to an “A” squad in terms of being thin at the back but with decent depth in many other places (though striker starts to look pretty sparse too).  

[BearcatSA]

20 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Corbeanu, Jebbo (if he would accept), I would argue Akinola is potentially a B team striker, McNaughton, Shaff, Russell-Rowe is a guy I’d like to see called up, maybe Raposo, and prob a bunch more. 

I wouldn't call up Akinola at all.  Maybe he gets traded and finds his footing with a new MLS club but right now, not a chance.  McNaughton is too slow in both reading the play as well as actual pace.  He seems like such a limited player (it makes you realize how valuable Hedges is back there). 

Edited April 23, 2023 by BearcatSA

[Obinna]

9 hours ago, Stoppage Time said:

If Canada put a B team together for a friendly or two (yes, unlikely), who might be involved? Let's limit to players with no or very few A caps for Canada.

Some possibilities include: 

Loturi, Abzi, Zator, Marshall-Rutty, M. Choiniere, Farsi, McGill, Norman Jr., Rea, Heibert, Hasal, L. Petrasso, Priso, Nelson, Ahmed, Millar, 

and who else??

In addition to who you mentioned, I would say:

• Akinola
• Brym
• Schaffleburg
• Corbeanu
• Waterman
• Henry (he's part of the A group historically, but hasn't been part of the group for some time now - and with Kennedy playing in the middle, I don't think we'll see him anymore outside a "B" call, a la Teibert or Ricketts last cycle)
• Baldisimo (hasn't played much lately, but same is true for Priso and Petrasso
• Tabla

The only names I would dispute are Millar and Norman Jr.:

David I think is too far away and playing sparingly in League Two won't get him a call.

Liam I think belongs to the A group, more than Brym, Corbeanu, Schaffleburg, Akinola, etc.

He has signifigantlly more caps than all of them and has been in the vast majority of camps since 2018. Of the lot he has the best club outlook, even despite the recent struggles. I wouldn't necessarily say the highest ceiling (arguably Corbeanu), but Theo isn't even with his parent club. Liam is and is about to embark on a Europa Conference league semi-final, against a Serie A side. In the league they can realistically get to 2nd (don't think they will though).

[shorty]

Agree with all your additions, obinna, but on club form, Brym is actually above Ugbo, who isn't on either of these lists.  We've seen Brym briefly now against Curacao (?) and he definitely looked more engaged than his first couple of caps (like how Larin used to "drift" and seem uninterested even though he wasn't and has added intensity since); but we've barely seen Ugbo.  I would want to see both of them in more than just a garbage minutes role so we can properly evaluate them as they get contrasted a lot on here.  Don't think we have any real solid evidence of their quality in a Canada role yet.

[CanadaFan123]

5 minutes ago, shorty said:

Agree with all your additions, obinna, but on club form, Brym is actually above Ugbo, who isn't on either of these lists.  We've seen Brym briefly now against Curacao (?) and he definitely looked more engaged than his first couple of caps (like how Larin used to "drift" and seem uninterested even though he wasn't and has added intensity since); but we've barely seen Ugbo.  I would want to see both of them in more than just a garbage minutes role so we can properly evaluate them as they get contrasted a lot on here.  Don't think we have any real solid evidence of their quality in a Canada role yet.

Why should Brym’s club form matter in a league Ugbo dominated already? Ugbo also scored consistently in a league that Brym could hardly get time in (Belgium). That’s like saying someone performing well in CPL should replace an out of form MLS player. 

[shorty]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Why should Brym’s club form matter in a league Ugbo dominated already? Ugbo also scored consistently in a league that Brym could hardly get time in (Belgium). That’s like saying someone performing well in CPL should replace an out of form MLS player. 

I see what you're saying, but I was thinking two things:  1) Brym vs Ugbo has been debate around here relatively often for selection discussions and we are discussing a B side, so presumably players who don't much see the pitch for our first choice side that we would like to see more of -- therefore weird for one to be on the list and not the other; and 2) acknowledging your point about levels, I would suggest that form COULD in some cases (not should) trump level, because it COULD speak to trajectory.  Would you pick Kone now to start over Atiba? (not a striker so goals aren't the measuring stick, but hear me out)  Atiba has outperformed Kone at similar levels and higher in the past after all.  Yes, it's an extreme example, but club form can matter because it's how you're performing right now.  Ugbo did better in Belgium than Brym, yes, but he's doing nothing now.  Is that only because of the coach at Troyes, or is it something else, or a combination?  Brym is starting to do much better than probably a lot of us expected him to do.  Is that an indication of an upward trajectory similar to Ugbo's but a couple of years behind?  What is his ceiling?  Unless we get B-type friendlies or other opportunities to see what they've got in a Canada jersey, we're just spitting in the dark.

[Shway]

Currently I would break the squad into three categories. There's18 "A - Key Players" who I would say as long as they are healthy they will be called. They are...

GK: Borjan, St. Clair, Crepeau
DF: Laryea, Johnston, Vitoria, Adekugbe, Miller, Kennedy, Corneilius
MF: Eustaqiuo, Kone, Osorio, Hutchinson, Kaye
FW:s David, Larin, Davies, Buchanan, Hoilett

Then there's about 15 on the bubble guys that could go up or down like...

GK: McGill
DF: Edwards, Waterman, Zator, Heibert, Henry, ZBG
MF: Piette, Wotherspoon, Loturi, Fraser
FW: Ugbo, Brym, Millar, Cavallini

Then the "B team" is made up of these guys....

GK: Gazdov
DF: Abzi, Farsi, Petrasso, MacNaughton, Norman Jr, Raposo, Cordova
MF: Choiniere, H. Paton, B. Paton, Ahmed, Priso, Rea, Baldisimo
FW: Akinola, Corbeanu, Nelson, Shaffelburg, Marshall-Rutty, Russell-Rowe, Bair

Based on this we could see a a B team at the Gold Cup with a starting XI like this...

Ugbo-Brym
Millar-Loturi-Wotherspoon-Piette-Farsi
Heibert-Waterman-Zator
St. Clair

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Shway

[HochelagaFC]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

Currently I would break the squad into three categories. There's18 "A - Key Players" who I would say as long as they are healthy they will be called. They are...

GK: Borjan, St. Clair, Crepeau
DF: Laryea, Johnston, Vitoria, Adekugbe, Miller, Kennedy, Corneilius
MF: Eustaqiuo, Kone, Osorio, Hutchinson, Kaye
FW:s David, Larin, Davies, Buchanan, Hoilett

Then there's about 15 on the bubble guys that could go up or down like...

GK: McGill
DF: Edwards, Waterman, Zator, Heibert, Henry, ZBG
MF: Piette, Wotherspoon, Loturi, Fraser
FW: Ugbo, Brym, Millar, Cavallini

Then the "B team" is made up of these guys....

GK: Gazdov
DF: Abzi, Farsi, Petrasso, MacNaughton, Norman Jr, Raposo, Cordova
MF: Choiniere, H. Paton, B. Paton, Ahmed, Priso, Rea, Baldisimo
FW: Akinola, Corbeanu, Nelson, Shaffelburg, Marshall-Rutty, Russell-Rowe, Bair

Based on this we could see a a B team at the Gold Cup with a starting XI like this...

Ugbo-Brym
Millar-Loturi-Wotherspoon-Piette-Farsi
Heibert-Waterman-Zator
St. Clair

 

Really agree with this. I would just add Pantemis and Hasal with McGill in the bubble tier and Desjardins, Breza and Carducci in the B tier. 

[Stoppage Time]

Are there any more guys presently playing in Europe who could be added to the bubble or B squads as mentioned by Shway? Dual internationals, perhaps?

[Corazon]

I wouldn’t be calling him yet, but based on the players above I think Colyn is another name that could easily fall under @Shway “B” team criteria.

[Watchmen]

I think if you're doing a "B" team, you're doing it because it's a game outside of the international window. A December/January game. So it would be mostly composed of guys in MLS, CPL, and the Norwegian leagues. Now, some of those guys might be legitimate "A" team players, but you call them for the B team anyway to see how some of the actual B team players perform with better players.

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, Stoppage Time said:

Are there any more guys presently playing in Europe who could be added to the bubble or B squads as mentioned by Shway? Dual internationals, perhaps?

Richie Ennin, Marcus Godinho, Simon Colyn, Julian Dunn, Ballou Tabla, Marco Bustos - names to be considered at least. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by CanadaFan123

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

I think if you're doing a "B" team, you're doing it because it's a game outside of the international window. A December/January game. So it would be mostly composed of guys in MLS, CPL, and the Norwegian leagues. Now, some of those guys might be legitimate "A" team players, but you call them for the B team anyway to see how some of the actual B team players perform with better players.

It's a Camp Poutine squad.

[Bigandy]

16 hours ago, Shway said:

Currently I would break the squad into three categories. There's18 "A - Key Players" who I would say as long as they are healthy they will be called. They are...

GK: Borjan, St. Clair, Crepeau
DF: Laryea, Johnston, Vitoria, Adekugbe, Miller, Kennedy, Corneilius
MF: Eustaqiuo, Kone, Osorio, Hutchinson, Kaye
FW:s David, Larin, Davies, Buchanan, Hoilett

Then there's about 15 on the bubble guys that could go up or down like...

GK: McGill
DF: Edwards, Waterman, Zator, Heibert, Henry, ZBG
MF: Piette, Wotherspoon, Loturi, Fraser
FW: Ugbo, Brym, Millar, Cavallini

Then the "B team" is made up of these guys....

GK: Gazdov
DF: Abzi, Farsi, Petrasso, MacNaughton, Norman Jr, Raposo, Cordova
MF: Choiniere, H. Paton, B. Paton, Ahmed, Priso, Rea, Baldisimo
FW: Akinola, Corbeanu, Nelson, Shaffelburg, Marshall-Rutty, Russell-Rowe, Bair

Based on this we could see a a B team at the Gold Cup with a starting XI like this...

Ugbo-Brym
Millar-Loturi-Wotherspoon-Piette-Farsi
Heibert-Waterman-Zator
St. Clair

 

I dont think the mls guys are a concern to miss even though they will be in season. Heres a list of potential reasons these guys would miss the tournament.

Davies - Injured
Hoilett - Injured
David - Transfer
Kennedy - out of contract?
Cornelius - In season 
Ugbo - Transfer
Buchanan - Transfer
Larin - Transfer
Brym - loan return
Laryea - loan return
Corbeanu - loan return 
Nelson - In season? 
Paton - Transfer? 
vitoria/hutch/borjan - age

My expectations are that most of the guys are available. I think ugbo, david and injuries are the ones we will miss but overall, i think we go for gold. I could see buchanan missing as well if he makes a big step up but i dont think we use a B team in the gold cup.

Borjan
Johnston Vitoria Miller
laryea Staq Kone Oso adekugbe 
Cav Larin 

(3)GK: Borjan, st clair, Mcgill
(9) DF: Adekugbe, laryea, johnstone, vitoria, miller, kennedy, cornelius, Davies/Farsi, zator/heibert/waterman 
(6) MF: Oso, Staq, kone, Hutch, Kaye, loturi 
(6) FW: Larin, Cav, Brym, Buchanan, Shaf, Hoilett/Millar

[Shway]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

I dont think the mls guys are a concern to miss even though they will be in season. Heres a list of potential reasons these guys would miss the tournament.

Davies - Injured
Hoilett - Injured/Out of Contract
David - Transfer
Kennedy - out of contract?
Cornelius - In season 
Ugbo - Transfer
Buchanan - Transfer
Larin - Transfer
Brym - loan return
Laryea - loan return
Corbeanu - loan return 
Nelson - In season? 
Paton - Transfer? 
vitoria/hutch/borjan - age
Adekugbe - loan return?


My expectations are that most of the guys are available. I think ugbo, david and injuries are the ones we will miss but overall, i think we go for gold. I could see buchanan missing as well if he makes a big step up but i dont think we use a B team in the gold cup.

Borjan
Johnston Vitoria Miller
laryea Staq Kone Oso adekugbe 
Cav Larin 

(3)GK: Borjan, st clair, Mcgill
(9) DF: Adekugbe, laryea, johnstone, vitoria, miller, kennedy, cornelius, Davies/Farsi, zator/heibert/waterman 
(6) MF: Oso, Staq, kone, Hutch, Kaye, loturi 
(6) FW: Larin, Cav, Brym, Buchanan, Shaf, Hoilett/Millar

I've said it all depends on what happens at the Nations League. If we win, I'm predicting a real B team for the Gold Cup that is coined as "expanding the pool in preparation for Copa America and the World Cup Qualifying".

Due to all the things you listed above like guys sorting out their futures, some needing long overdue rest, and some will just simply want to spend time with their families I don't think we see 50% of what you have listed as the starting XI (if we win CNL)

[Bigandy]

9 minutes ago, Shway said:

I've said it all depends on what happens at the Nations League. If we win, I'm predicting a real B team for the Gold Cup that is coined as "expanding the pool in preparation for Copa America and the World Cup Qualifying".

Due to all the things you listed above like guys sorting out their futures, some needing long overdue rest, and some will just simply want to spend time with their families I don't think we see 50% of what you have listed as the starting XI (if we win CNL)

I could see us rotating but thats not really been herdmans or canadas approach.

In 2021 we didnt have david, hutch, borjan or arfield. Arfield isnt part of the brotherhood, hutch and borjan are old, david just transferred. Basically just David was the main guy we would expect to be on the gold cup roster and wasnt. Other than that, it was our strongest possible squad. I dont think this year will be dramatically different. Add in the fact that herdman is very very loyal to the same group of guys and i dont think he wants to swap out half the squad. He has never done something like that before. 

I have to question why atiba hasnt retired yet. I think he wants a trophy at the gold cup. This makes me think that the boys are going to rally together to win. Herdman will also want to create a winning culture/new canada so again he will push for the strongest squad available. 

Basically, I dont think herdman rotates. I think some players withdraw forcing herdmans hand but I cant imagine it will be enough to call it a B team. 

 

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, Shway said:

I've said it all depends on what happens at the Nations League. If we win, I'm predicting a real B team for the Gold Cup that is coined as "expanding the pool in preparation for Copa America and the World Cup Qualifying".

Due to all the things you listed above like guys sorting out their futures, some needing long overdue rest, and some will just simply want to spend time with their families I don't think we see 50% of what you have listed as the starting XI (if we win CNL)

Agreed. I think Herdman cares about winning one of these two tournaments, but is less concerned about winning both. Sure, he'd like to win both but even just one is a boost to the players and the program. So I think we see a stronger line up for the NL where it's Panama and then either Mexico or the US, since it's a shorter tournament to win at this stage. Which is a bit unfortunate, as the Gold Cup is the more high profile of the two.

[Kadenge]

3 hours ago, Bigandy said:

I could see us rotating but thats not really been herdmans or canadas approach.

In 2021 we didnt have david, hutch, borjan or arfield. Arfield isnt part of the brotherhood, hutch and borjan are old, david just transferred. Basically just David was the main guy we would expect to be on the gold cup roster and wasnt. Other than that, it was our strongest possible squad. I dont think this year will be dramatically different. Add in the fact that herdman is very very loyal to the same group of guys and i dont think he wants to swap out half the squad. He has never done something like that before. 

I have to question why atiba hasnt retired yet. I think he wants a trophy at the gold cup. This makes me think that the boys are going to rally together to win. Herdman will also want to create a winning culture/new canada so again he will push for the strongest squad available. 

Basically, I dont think herdman rotates. I think some players withdraw forcing herdmans hand but I cant imagine it will be enough to call it a B team. 

 

Davies was also missing from the last GC. The lack of rotation by Herdman in the past could have been related to the upcoming WCQs.  He wanted the same squad to play  together with WCQ ahead. I tend to agree that if we win NL, there will be a B squad in the GC

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

Davies was also missing from the last GC. The lack of rotation by Herdman in the past could have been related to the upcoming WCQs.  He wanted the same squad to play  together with WCQ ahead. I tend to agree that if we win NL, there will be a B squad in the GC

Davies was called up but got injured. I view this as him being committed to the gold cup unlike an example like david who was not committed due to transfer reasons. 

Yes the WCQ contribute to a lack of change but thats not a one off. 

2021 - The named 2021 GC squad was our best players with the exception of borjan, hutch, and david. Most of these guys are still our core with the exceptions being guys who fell off the radar (pasher, fraser, paton, Akinola) 

2019 - If you look at our 2019 GC roster, its still the majority of the same guys in our pool. The exception is weve moved on from morgan, godhino, tiebert, Johnson, and arfield. I would say that 16 of the 23 from 4 years ago are within the brotherhood/A squad which is pretty crazy with all the new A teir recruits that we have added ( staq, buchanan, johnson, st clair, kennedy, kone, ugbo, brym) 

2019 Nations league - These were A list squads
2022/23 nations league - These were A list squads
 

Maybe I am forgetting something but I dont think herdman has called up a B squad yet. (obviously the camp poutine game against bahrain - but that was only a placeholder match until the A squad were available.