League 1 Atlantic

[Obinna]

I took the advice I gave to @Cblake and watched some of the two videos I posted.

I would have to say L1O seems slightly more refined in terms of technical ability, movements off the ball, and decision making. This makes the game a little quicker and the quality a little better than what you see in a game versus two top Atlantic Canadian amateur teams (in this case Halifax Dunbrack and Holy Cross). 

But the thing is, a Newfoundland entry into L1 Atlantic is not going to be playing teams like North Missasauga and St. Catherines Wolves, they are going to be playing teams like Halifax Dunbrack. Like mentinoned before in the thread, it will be teams like Dunbrack that'll probably put entries into L1 Atlantic, unless they form brand new clubs. Either way, what you see in that video is typical soccer in the Maritimes and Newfoundland - less refined, more hopeful long balls, etc. That won't magically change overnight, it'll take time to improve, but as @Kingston says, give it a decade and you'll see growth.

[Soccerpro2]

On 4/5/2023 at 8:14 AM, Obinna said:

I took the advice I gave to @Cblake and watched some of the two videos I posted.

I would have to say L1O seems slightly more refined in terms of technical ability, movements off the ball, and decision making. This makes the game a little quicker and the quality a little better than what you see in a game versus two top Atlantic Canadian amateur teams (in this case Halifax Dunbrack and Holy Cross). 

But the thing is, a Newfoundland entry into L1 Atlantic is not going to be playing teams like North Missasauga and St. Catherines Wolves, they are going to be playing teams like Halifax Dunbrack. Like mentinoned before in the thread, it will be teams like Dunbrack that'll probably put entries into L1 Atlantic, unless they form brand new clubs. Either way, what you see in that video is typical soccer in the Maritimes and Newfoundland - less refined, more hopeful long balls, etc. That won't magically change overnight, it'll take time to improve, but as @Kingston says, give it a decade and you'll see growth.

I think still think an East Coast L1 is a pipedream.

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Soccerpro2 said:

I think still think an East Coast L1 is a pipedream.

It does feel too good to be true, but let's see what happens I guess. The will seems to be there, so that's a start at least. 

[dyslexic nam]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:08 AM, Unnamed Trialist said:

Every tier has differences you can see. In L1BC last year, in the final, UBC being a U-Sports team had kids with talent who played with the their heads down, tried to hot-dog like they did at high school, missed the right passes. Then other guys were less ostentatious and far more efficient on the field. Some were developed physically, others were sharp passers, others had gaps. I've watched PCSL and you'll often get a former pro or semi pro who is ageing but still has stuff, then some kid who's a bright light and will move up quickly, alongside clear amateurs. CPL is a higher level, the overall squad quality is far higher, and then CPL teams have very mixed rosters so you get a lot of different backgrounds and football cultures, so the play is richer and more varied. 

This sort of tier-differentiation was really underscored for me when a local guy (Ibrahim “Ibra” Sanoh) was signed to HFX a few years ago (pretty sure I have mentioned him before).   He is a guy I played against a couple of times at the amateur level and he dominated whenever he played local soccer within our provincial structure.  He also put up really impressive numbers (101 goals in 70 games) at the collegiate level for Holland College.  But when he was with HFX, he clearly struggled to make an impact at that level and ultimately he ended up leaving after just one season.   For me that was a real eye opener about the jump in quality because I had seen his skill in-person, in college he clearly improved a ton from when he scorched me (and everyone else) on the pitch at the amateur level, and yet the CPL was pretty clearly abbot too much of a step up for him.  For me, it just shows the kinds of distinct tiers within the national soccer structure.   

A story on Ibra:   

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5383616

[Soccerpro2]

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

This sort of tier-differentiation was really underscored for me when a local guy (Ibrahim “Ibra” Sanoh) was signed to HFX a few years ago (pretty sure I have mentioned him before).   He is a guy I played against a couple of times at the amateur level and he dominated whenever he played local soccer within our provincial structure.  He also put up really impressive numbers (101 goals in 70 games) at the collegiate level for Holland College.  But when he was with HFX, he clearly struggled to make an impact at that level and ultimately he ended up leaving after just one season.   For me that was a real eye opener about the jump in quality because I had seen his skill in-person, in college he clearly improved a ton from when he scorched me (and everyone else) on the pitch at the amateur level, and yet the CPL was pretty clearly abbot too much of a step up for him.  For me, it just shows the kinds of distinct tiers within the national soccer structure.   

A story on Ibra:   

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5383616

There’s very few position players over the last 20 years from the East Coast that could be regular players in the CPL. Mesut Mert and Trevor Reddick. Probably Derek Gaudet in his prime. 
 

The gap is really big from NSSL, Maritime first divisions to CPL.
 

 

[Cblake]

3 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

This sort of tier-differentiation was really underscored for me when a local guy (Ibrahim “Ibra” Sanoh) was signed to HFX a few years ago (pretty sure I have mentioned him before).   He is a guy I played against a couple of times at the amateur level and he dominated whenever he played local soccer within our provincial structure.  He also put up really impressive numbers (101 goals in 70 games) at the collegiate level for Holland College.  But when he was with HFX, he clearly struggled to make an impact at that level and ultimately he ended up leaving after just one season.   For me that was a real eye opener about the jump in quality because I had seen his skill in-person, in college he clearly improved a ton from when he scorched me (and everyone else) on the pitch at the amateur level, and yet the CPL was pretty clearly abbot too much of a step up for him.  For me, it just shows the kinds of distinct tiers within the national soccer structure.   

A story on Ibra:   

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5383616

I think as the L1 Canada structure grows , we are going to see some real differences in quality and the technical aspects from one province/region to another. L1 Ontario in the 2024 with its 12 team premier division will see a consolidation of a talent as the best will want to play at the top flight. At least early one some of the end of the bench talent in the CPL is pretty interchangeable with the best currently playing in L1O. 

It is in the other regions where it might resemble something more of a senior men's/women's league than a stepping stone to the CPL and beyond. For instances in Alberta are we going to see essentially a rebranded AMSL becoming L1 Alberta. Are you really going to see a talent bump because of it, who knows at this point. The Atlantic region will be interesting as I figure they can easily put together a structure out there , but the one thing they have to get understand is the level it will be. I am ok with that if it gets L1 Canada to the point of being coast to coast. It will be interesting to see an expanded VCup with all this teams. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

In most of the rest of the world they would simply invite the best clubs that are available from the three provincial amateur leagues in the Maritimes and use promotion and relegation from there to regularly replace clubs that cannot hack it on the field of play. Doubt Newfoundland participation is realistic given air or long distance ferry travel is involved.

L1O was configured the way it was as a mainly amateur in reality D3 professional league so the suburban youth clubs that dominated many soccer associations through their player registration numbers didn't have to compete for their status with the ethnic clubs that have traditionally dominated the OSL and district association amateur leagues on the field of play. They also wanted to sideline academy setups like Sigma but were less sucessful on that angle.

Those sort of soccer politics aren't an issue in the Maritimes so the only obvious stumbling block would be whether the existing top amateur clubs would actually want to do the extra travel required.

Having been heavily involved with one of the stronger district association amateur leagues in southern Ontario in the past my assessment would be don't hold your breath on most of the active participants involved with elite amateur soccer being keen on driving more than about an hour to games. That reluctance explains why L1BC wound up being stocked by university related teams and former PDL clubs that had previously been geared towards NCAA scholarship players.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Cblake said:

I think as the L1 Canada structure grows , we are going to see some real differences in quality and the technical aspects from one province/region to another. L1 Ontario in the 2024 with its 12 team premier division will see a consolidation of a talent as the best will want to play at the top flight. At least early one some of the end of the bench talent in the CPL is pretty interchangeable with the best currently playing in L1O. 

These really big differences in technical ability and quality, to the extent they exist, would already exist if you know what I mean, so I am not sure what you are trying to point out here. L1O in theory should be the strongest division in the L1 Canada structure because that is where most of the population base is.

What should happen over time is that L1O should get more Voyageurs Cup spots than other L1s based on it's stregth. Perhaps something like this:

L1O - 4 direct spots, 2 half spots (playoff with PLSQ)

PLSQ - 2 direct spots, 2 half spots (playoff with L1O)

L1BC - 3 direct spots

L1Alberta - 2 direct spot, 1 half spot (playoff with L1Prairies)

L1Praires - 1 direct spot, 1 half spot (playoff with L1Alberta)

L1Atlantic - 1 direct spot

V Cup spots: 13 direct, 3 indirect, 16 total

The allotments could be adjusted with time as needed, but conceptually would this address your concern with uneven L1s? Think of it like different European leagues having different allotments for Champions League Qualifiers. L1O here would get as many as 6 participants. 

I think League 1 Canada is going to want to have a flagship championship, so maybe that national cup winner gets a spot for the Voyaguers Cup as well? Certainly fun to think about the possibilities...

Edited April 8, 2023 by Obinna

[Cblake]

The League 1 Canada level could provide some very cool experiences , look at this from the 2nd round of the US Open Cup, FC Tulsa of the USL Championship played at Tulsa Athletic (NPSL) in a crosstown Derby at essentially a community field with the fans lined around the field. This would be very cool to see a across our country.

[Watchmen]

On 4/8/2023 at 8:34 AM, Cblake said:

I think as the L1 Canada structure grows , we are going to see some real differences in quality and the technical aspects from one province/region to another. L1 Ontario in the 2024 with its 12 team premier division will see a consolidation of a talent as the best will want to play at the top flight.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I think the technical aspect is something that would actually start to be a bit more standardized across the country.  I remember DeVos going across the country....maybe a decade ago? and trying to just that, to start getting all the provinces pulling in the same direction from a technical stand point.  The talent gap between provinces would still exist, of course, just based on population. As for "consolidating the talent at the top flight", I think that's the next step for L1BC. The short season doesn't do that, so they'll eventually have to push it to a full season to convince/demonstrate to up and coming talent that this is the best path forward.

[Kent]

On 4/8/2023 at 11:40 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

L1O was configured the way it was as a mainly amateur in reality D3 professional league so the suburban youth clubs that dominated many soccer associations through their player registration numbers didn't have to compete for their status with the ethnic clubs that have traditionally dominated the OSL and district association amateur leagues on the field of play. They also wanted to sideline academy setups like Sigma but were less sucessful on that angle.

I don't remember any hints of that. Can you explain why you have that feeling? I know OPDL (supposed to be the highest level of youth soccer) excluded academies like Sigma in those days which was quite disappointing to me (although I am not involved in youth soccer to any meaningful degree), but I don't remember any talk of excluding them in L1O. I just checked now for the first time in years, and apparently Sigma is involved in OPDL now, which is great to see. I didn't notice any other academy names from back in the days when Sigma was still separate, but maybe there are others that I didn't immediately recognize? London has both TFC and Whitecaps teams in OPDL, which I didn't realize either.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

^^^literally answers his own question.

[Unnamed Trialist]

17 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I think the technical aspect is something that would actually start to be a bit more standardized across the country.  I remember DeVos going across the country....maybe a decade ago? and trying to just that, to start getting all the provinces pulling in the same direction from a technical stand point.  The talent gap between provinces would still exist, of course, just based on population. As for "consolidating the talent at the top flight", I think that's the next step for L1BC. The short season doesn't do that, so they'll eventually have to push it to a full season to convince/demonstrate to up and coming talent that this is the best path forward.

Everywhere in the world where you have regional rivalries in amateur soccer competition, regions with more population do better consistently.

Then you have minor ecosystems that rival them now and then, usually because of a special passion or coaching or club culture. I believe in trying to create these, wherever you can.

And sometimes a smaller region exceeds because of high motivation to beat the stronger sides, to the point of "hatred" even.

So if you wanted more from Nova Scotia, NS coaches and clubs would have to drive it. Having HFX could help. 

You can teach technique all you want, add speed, resistance, game smarts, then extras, but if you have 200 high technique u12 kids in Ottawa and 42 in Halifax there's a good chance one roster of 23 will be better than the other. But as I say, I love the idea of trying to be a badass David ready to take down Goliaths.

[Kingston]

On 4/7/2023 at 9:41 PM, Soccerpro2 said:

I think still think an East Coast L1 is a pipedream.

I acknowledge that, from my home here in Ontario, I'm not in touch with the Maritime soccer scene.  That said, would a simple league really be that hard?  Fredericton, Saint John, Moncton, Charlottetown, and two teams in Halifax and there you go.  Probably not at L1O level but it would given any interested players a clear path toward the CPL.  And I'm assuming there are already club teams in those cities that could move up to make the nucleus of the L1M.  Plus the longest away game trip would only be four hours.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

...which is Windsor to Toronto sort of driving time. Windsor teams tend to struggle to attract the best local players in a CSL/L1O sort of context because travelling to and from the GTA for a game blows an 11 hour chunk out of a weekend and the players are likely not being paid. Even London teams have had issues that way with a 2 hour driving time and a 7 hour chunk blown out of weekends. If they could get university oriented teams interested in a similar way to L1BC then maybe it's doable though.

[ted]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

...which is Windsor to Toronto sort of driving time.

Victoria to Kamloops for L1BC matches is 1.5 hrs on the ferry and 5.5 hrs minimum of driving time. That's simply the reality of a league in Canada and has to be accounted for in planning and operations.

[Kingston]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

...which is Windsor to Toronto sort of driving time. Windsor teams tend to struggle to attract the best local players in a CSL/L1O sort of context because travelling to and from the GTA for a game blows an 11 hour chunk out of a weekend and the players are likely not being paid. Even London teams have had issues that way with a 2 hour driving time and a 7 hour chunk blown out of weekends. If they could get university oriented teams interested in a similar way to L1BC then maybe it's doable though.

Most trips would be shorter but, yes, there will be significant travel involved.

[red card]

L1A press release says they want to launch in 12 months.

First info session was attended by 7 Scotia clubs and 1 university. Second info session in Moncton was attended by 7 clubs from NB/PEI and 2 universities.

2 video sessions are to be held in the next 2.5 weeks.

https://league1canada.ca/article/league1-atlantic-introductory-visit-a-success

[Kingston]

20 minutes ago, red card said:

L1A press release says they want to launch in 12 months.

First info session was attended by 7 Scotia clubs and 1 university. Second info session in Moncton was attended by 7 clubs from NB/PEI and 2 universities.

2 video sessions are to be held in the next 2.5 weeks.

https://league1canada.ca/article/league1-atlantic-introductory-visit-a-success

I'm quite impressed by how quickly this appears to be coming together.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Cblake]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

 

A little surprised it is completely independent and not branded as League 1 Atlantic/Maritimes like they are doing in Alberta as L1C has those meeting out east. 

[top cheese]

It would cost a fortune for a NL team to participate in this. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

13 hours ago, Cblake said:

A little surprised it is completely independent and not branded as League 1 Atlantic/Maritimes like they are doing in Alberta as L1C has those meeting out east. 

Also, noterworthy that there is no Halifax Wanderers U-23 team involvement to parallel the Cavalry U-23 entrant in Alberta.

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 5/3/2023 at 8:42 PM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

 

If I am not mistaken, the model for the 3 different weekends is that in each case the home team plays twice, the visitors once.

This compensates the effort for travel, the visitor plays once (and could indeed go home afterwards, or come later). This also maximizes what the home fans can see, two matches of their club vs. rivals from other provinces. I suppose on Friday and Sunday, unless we have statutory holidays on any Monday.

I am just assuming the clubs correspond to those keenest to test to the waters.

One more thing: nice graphic design work. Are these colours that correspond clearly to each of the Atlantic provinces, to the clubs? I just found it odd and interesting there are four tones and then they are made to blend. For example, the flags feature deep gold, an intense red and that navy blue, so then what would the lighter blue represent?

Edited May 7, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist