Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 3 hours ago, Kent said: Yet another clear sign that League 1 Ontario has the wrong model. They are trying to be a bus league but really they should be a more modest bicycle league. Frankly pathetic stuff. L1O is effectively an amateur league involving GTA suburban youth clubs that make little or no effort to draw a regular crowd to their games. The Electric City people in contrast wanted to run a pro level operation in CanPL and were expecting to use an L1O operation running at close to pro level as their way to attract an invite to that party. Once that dream died they were unlikely to hang around. If CanPL/CSB keeps losing $25 million per season (according to Mark Noonan's numbers that are in the public domain so not something I have made up) there is a very real danger the investors will do something similar in that context as well post-2026 if their dream of MLS style escalating franchise values dies. Two of the initial investor groups already have walked away no doubt because they stopped believing in the dream. Only somebody who is brainwashed to the level of a religious cultist would not be able to grasp why looking at what leagues like the ECHL in hockey do to keep their costs under control might be a good idea for CanPL at this point if they want to hang in there for the long haul. But hey there were people on here who appear to have genuinely believed the Cavalry were going to be able to play a CONCACAF Champions Cup game outdoors on natural grass in early February in Calgary... Edited January 11 by Ozzie_the_parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoccMan Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 This crap has been happening for years at this level of soccer . Can’t remember how many times these types of owners come in with clubs like this Electric City Peterborough team and talk a big game and within a couple of years are gone . There was that Barrie team just a few years ago that talked a big game got everyone excited and basically imploded before even a ball was kicked . Yes we need leagues like L 1 Ontario across Canada to prosper and grow so that players have a pathway but when you see the same old mistakes made over and over again , when you see these owners come in hype every one up talk a really big game but then just as fast disappear just as fast as they came in, you start to wonder if we will ever get it right for this game to ever prosper. Leagues like this at this level need places like Peterborough these sort of markets to try and grow the game and push it away from it just being basically a glorified Toronto area men’s league . It would be nice to see more of the smaller markets in Ontario get teams at this level but when you see clubs come in in these markets and falter so quickly you start to question if there is really any hope for these kinds of markets unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) PDL worked much better as a spectator event in London than L1O does precisely because it's not a "glorified Toronto area men’s league". A set of soccer standings in the sports section of the Freeps looks a lot more impressive with Michigan, Chicago, K-W, Toronto and Pittsburgh as the opponents for the London team rather than an array of nondescript GTA youth clubs and academies with names like Master's Futbol and Toronto Skillz FC. Peterborough is about the same size as Sarnia or Chatham. Not sure whether a team of local players from there would be capable of challenging to win WOSL premier in London never mind trying to take on top GTA teams. The way it works in junior hockey so they can get the format to actually succeed as a spectator event is they move the best players out of the GTA into smaller communities where people will actually be interested in paying to watch them play. L1O is structured more like the GTHL or whatever than the OHL, i.e. it's about participation and not much else. But something something bicycle league guffaw guffaw will be the level of the response from certain quarters rather than looking at what other sports have been doing for decades to make things actually work. Edited January 11 by Ozzie_the_parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 The ECHL is an interesting example. Those bus trips to Newfoundland must be epic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: Frankly pathetic stuff. This is unwarranted. You don't need to attack me just for offering an alternative opinion from the typical rah rah posts we get about L1O. narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 5 hours ago, SoccMan said: It would be nice to see more of the smaller markets in Ontario get teams at this level but when you see clubs come in in these markets and falter so quickly you start to question if there is really any hope for these kinds of markets unfortunately. It would be nice. From different bits of information I've been able to glean over the years, an annual budget of $100 000 is required to run a modest but sustainable L1O team. In the case of Peterborough specifically I think Ozzie is right and the ownership group had ambitions that were never going to be supported by that market. More generally, since most L1O teams are offshoots of local clubs and most don't sell tickets, it is challenging for clubs in smaller centres to meet the costs. It's kind of hard to convince parents of the 1000 kids in your club to pay an extra $100 L1O fee each year for ten years for the hope that their kid might one day make your L1O team. It's a lot easier for a big club in a larger city to bury a small L1O fee. I believe L1O is moving in the right direction but until clubs can find some external revenue streams - like modest numbers of paying fans - it is always going to be difficult for smaller markets. Kent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 25 minutes ago, Kent said: This is unwarranted. You don't need to attack me just for offering an alternative opinion from the typical rah rah posts we get about L1O. What are you even talking about? If you think I have made "rah rah posts" about L1O, you are completely mistaken. I view it as a local Toronto amateur league masquerading as something it isn't. In addition to what Kingston describes above, a key problem for L1O clubs outside the GTA is attracting the best local players to play on their team rather than in the local district amateur league. Why drive up and down the 401 all the time if you are not being paid for the inconvenience due to NCAA eligibility compliance reasons and the soccer is only slightly better than what you could be playing locally anyway? Call it the why were London City always so chronically bad in the CPSL effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: What are you even talking about? If you think I have made "rah rah posts" about L1O, you are completely mistaken. I view it as a local Toronto amateur league masquerading as something it isn't. In addition to what Kingston describes above, a key problem for L1O clubs outside the GTA is attracting the best local players to play on their team rather than in the local district amateur league. Why drive up and down the 401 all the time if you are not being paid for the inconvenience due to NCAA eligibility compliance reasons and the soccer is only slightly better than what you could be playing locally anyway? Call it the why were London City always so chronically bad in the CPSL effect. I think Kent believes you called his post "frankly pathetic stuff" as opposed to the League... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 No idea why you would think I'm unaware of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoccMan Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 The problem with these smaller markets in L1 Ontario is what more or less Ozzie alluded too, that being for them to be competitive they probably need a good representation of players from the GTA . Therefore , you need to compensate these out of town players with the very least gas money and probably some kind of small salary to entice them to travel for practices and games. Moreover, of course you have to try and get the best local players to play for your team and I’m sure if you compensate them appropriately you will get most of them. Yes there will be some local older ones who due to work and family commitments will probably opt to just play in the local leagues. But with the right set up and dedicated ownership sponsorship and yes some help from the local youth clubs it can work , but not overnight and please these owners need to stop coming in and spending blindly and thinking that success off the field is so easily attainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) Windsor Wheels, Toronto Olympians, Ottawa Wizards, Hamilton Thunder, Laval Dynamites... The phrase there is nothing new under the sun comes to mind where that type of owner is concerned. If there's a positive about Simcoe County Rovers as opposed to the other Barrie team that was just a delusional flash in the pan it's that it is soccer people like JdG that are heavily involved with that one rather than some investor with a messiah complex who has looked at youth soccer registration numbers and thinks he has found his get rich quick scheme. Barrie is a more sensible location to give it a go than Peterborough is. The problem is though that L1O just isn't structured right to provide a fixture list that is likely to sustain interest elsewhere for "glorified Toronto area men’s league" reasons once the novelty wears off. It's too bad the powers that be blocked Joe Belan's would be D2. He seemed to have a good grasp of the issues involved given he is a soccer guy as well as a would be investor. Edited January 11 by Ozzie_the_parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: Barrie is a more sensible location to give it a go than Peterborough is. The problem is though that L1O just isn't structured right to provide a fixture list that is likely to sustain interest elsewhere for "glorified Toronto area men’s league" reasons once the novelty wears off. I don't think this is really the problem. No one goes to an L1O game because of the opponents. Anyone who's sufficiently aware of the league to attend a match knows exactly what they are getting and just wants to enjoy/support local soccer. It's the same as no one goes to a CHL game and then complains that their local side doesn't play against the Leafs. To be successful, the team needs to connect with the local fan base and players and get them to support local soccer. Just like any sports team from any league that isn't the top tier. Canuckia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Kingston said: ...It's the same as no one goes to a CHL game and then complains that their local side doesn't play against the Leafs... The CHL and L1O don't even belong in the same conversation. Not even sure you can sensibly compare the level of interest in L1O with Junior B level hockey. That's why I described it above as a local Toronto amateur league masquerading as something it isn't. Back in the day with the NSL 40 or 50 years ago when there was a genuine culture of semi-professionalism would be a completely different story but eventually most soccer people got sick of the antics of the CSA, OSA, Dale Barnes, Rocco LoFranco etc and just gave up on this sort of level of Canadian soccer as a spectator event and tuned it out unless their friends or family were involved. Just occasionally though like when FC London were in PDL low four digit crowds can still happen, which suggests if it could ever be configured more sensibly... Edited January 11 by Ozzie_the_parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longlugan Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: PDL worked much better as a spectator event in London than L1O does precisely because it's not a "glorified Toronto area men’s league". A set of soccer standings in the sports section of the Freeps looks a lot more impressive with Michigan, Chicago, K-W, Toronto and Pittsburgh as the opponents for the London team rather than an array of nondescript GTA youth clubs and academies with names like Master's Futbol and Toronto Skillz FC. Peterborough is about the same size as Sarnia or Chatham. Not sure whether a team of local players from there would be capable of challenging to win WOSL premier in London never mind trying to take on top GTA teams. The way it works in junior hockey so they can get the format to actually succeed as a spectator event is they move the best players out of the GTA into smaller communities where people will actually be interested in paying to watch them play. L1O is structured more like the GTHL or whatever than the OHL, i.e. it's about participation and not much else. But something something bicycle league guffaw guffaw will be the level of the response from certain quarters rather than looking at what other sports have been doing for decades to make things actually work. So let me get this straight. You now hate CPL AND L10 because they haven't gone the USSF route that you so obviously prefer? All this great stuff the US is doing in terms of world soccer leads me to believe that you have been right all along. How will we ever win as many World Cups as the Yanks if we don't immediately adopt their football system and culture? Is it too late you think Ozzie or is there still hope for us if we start playing the Des Moines Menace this upcoming season. That way by the time we host the 2026 World Cup we can be a footballing superpower just like or neighbors to the south. It's been there right in front of our faces this whole time and you have been preaching the good word but not until now have my eyes been opened to the possibilities. Thank you Ozzie...thank you. Until the Forge decide to play in a USSF sanctioned league I am withdrawing my support and rescinding my season tickets. All Hail to Ozzie...savior of Canadian soccer. narduch and gigi riva 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: The CHL and L1O don't even belong in the same conversation. Not even sure you can sensibly compare the level of interest in L1O with Junior B level hockey. My point wasn't to suggest they share comparable levels of support. It was to express the fact that teams in lower tier leagues survive because people want to enjoy and support local sports. This is opposed to top tier leagues where people do also care about the list of opponents. Canuckia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Edgar Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 NVsoccer, narduch and Mihairokov 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Edgar Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 fyi.. Athlone Town AFC is in the Irish 2nd tier... Kingston and Mihairokov 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Edgar Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 On 1/30/2024 at 6:19 PM, VinceA said: He joins Alex Zis who had also joined this club. They are in the third division. Apparently there's Saudi clubs offering decent money to play in the 3rd division. Might as well I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Edgar Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Woodbridge U21, I believe... narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 10 minutes ago, K Edgar said: Woodbridge U21, I believe... 4th tier Unnamed Trialist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Sounds like DeRo doing the narration. Unnamed Trialist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihairokov Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 This is another Rob Jenkins project, previously with Electric City, Cavalry, and Foothills. I'm a big believer that Scarborough will support pro footy (CPL included) with the right amount of community involvement and grassroots effort. Community has a ton of unique character waiting to be captured. Unnamed Trialist, K Edgar and Nello 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Mihairokov said: This is another Rob Jenkins project, previously with Electric City, Cavalry, and Foothills. I'm a big believer that Scarborough will support pro footy (CPL included) with the right amount of community involvement and grassroots effort. Community has a ton of unique character waiting to be captured. Thrice-capped former Canadian international Andrew Ornoch deserves a tonne of credit for what he's doing in Ontario with Dutch Connections. Unnamed Trialist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 As much as it goes against conventional wisdom, I'm keen on the idea that they are deliberately not developing their own academy in preference to working with the existing clubs in the area. It keeps their catchment as wide as possible and doesn't waste resources duplicating things that already exist. Unnamed Trialist and nolando 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Edgar Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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