CPL TV Contract

[matty]

7 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

TSN is not available to majority of sports fans unless they want to pay an installation fee, get some guy to come to your house to activate your cable, have to rent a cable box, have to have an ugly giant cable box in your TV room, commit to term of the subscription, have to pay for a lot of content that is not wanted and pay a crazy amount of money. TSN is also a bad option because they will be cutting out a large part of younger viewers who they will need to grow their viewers. These younger viewers would be more likely to change their viewing habits and follow CPL.

I'm sorry but what? Most homes in Canada already have TV and most with cable have access TSN. Also the rate people are dropping cable is no where near fast enough to say TSN is an awful choice. Also young people still overwhelmingly prefer to watch their sports live on TV.

[mpg_29]

1 hour ago, matty said:

These are the exact reasons why beIN should maybe be avoided. While it's a great place to reach hardcores it has little impact of casuals.

DAZN seems to be going after more casual fans with the NFL deal. While I'm excited by it, I'm waiting until the 31st (when it's supposed to be up by) before going all in.

Anybody paying $20/mth for DAZN to watch NFL isn't "casual" anymore than people paying for beIN...they would be hardcore NFL fans the majority of which wouldn't give two fucks about soccer...I couldn't think of a worse sport to get cross exposure...maybe NASCAR beats it. 

The "casuals" arguments makes sense when it's Sportsnet/TSN/CBC because it's the biggest sports related TV channels in Canada which have millions of eyeballs..

 

[grasshopper1917]

5 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

TSN is not available to majority of sports fans unless they want to pay an installation fee, get some guy to come to your house to activate your cable, have to rent a cable box, have to have an ugly giant cable box in your TV room, commit to term of the subscription, have to pay for a lot of content that is not wanted and pay a crazy amount of money. TSN is also a bad option because they will be cutting out a large part of younger viewers who they will need to grow their viewers. These younger viewers would be more likely to change their viewing habits and follow CPL.

I get it, you don't like cable BUT the vast majority of Canadians who do watch sports watch it on cable. The way we view media is ever changing - but presently the vast majority of Canadians who watch live sports view it on TV. 

Im not going to get into an argument about the pros and cons of cable but many of your arguments you made above are largely bogus. 1) My service provider allows one receiver free of charge and it is not big and ugly - it is the size of a paperback novel. 2) My service provider did not charge for instillation 3) There is no term required with my provider.  

I pay roughly 60$ per month (2$ a day) for the cable portion in a bundle and am able to pick any 50 stations. I like sports, news, documentaries,movies and nature shows so I picked my station accordingly. For me 2$ a day in not a 'crazy' to get every jays game in HD, every TFC game in HD, English premiere every weekend in HD, NFL every weekend in HD. Plus I get to watch my live news programs, nature shows, docs and other shows as a bonus.

I also dont buy your argument that young viewers watch TSN/Sportsnet. There is no question younger folks consume their media in a differently but still the majority of young sports fans watch sporting events in HD on their nice TV's with a cable feed. 

I think we need to be realistic - while cable has its problems it is still the the most popular option by quite a strech. I think most people would agree if by some long shot we CPL stuck a deal for TSN to air their games it would be an amazing option. 

 

[Ruffian]

It is true a lot of homes still have cable but my arguments are not bogus just may not apply to every cable subscription. If CPL is on TSN I will not be watching and many people like me will not. If it is on CBC or Sportsnet viewers like me who want to view it have the option of cable or streaming service.

[matty]

13 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

Anybody paying $20/mth for DAZN to watch NFL isn't "casual" anymore than people paying for beIN...they would be hardcore NFL fans the majority of which wouldn't give two fucks about soccer...I couldn't think of a worse sport to get cross exposure...maybe NASCAR beats it. 

The "casuals" arguments makes sense when it's Sportsnet/TSN/CBC because it's the biggest sports related TV channels in Canada which have millions of eyeballs..

 

You know it's going to have more than NFL right? I'm saying they seem to be going after sports more casual fans of sports might be interested in seeing. If there's a service that has a ton of NFL, NBA and Bundesliga games and ATP events (like DANZ has everywhere else) on it, there's likely hundreds of thousands casual fans in Canada who will be willing to spend on it. Wait and see what it actually has on it before saying it will not have mass appeal.

Also if there is zero between the two sports then why is Fox Sports doing NFL-MLS double headers and why are CFL teams going to try and lure their CFL fans to CPL games?

Edited July 25, 2017 by matty

[ironcub14]

12 hours ago, matty said:

You know it's going to have more than NFL right? I'm saying they seem to be going after sports more casual fans of sports might be interested in seeing. If there's a service that has a ton of NFL, NBA and Bundesliga games and ATP events (like DANZ has everywhere else) on it, there's likely hundreds of thousands casual fans in Canada who will be willing to spend on it. Wait and see what it actually has on it before saying it will not have mass appeal.

Also if there is zero between the two sports then why is Fox Sports doing NFL-MLS double headers and why are CFL teams going to try and lure their CFL fans to CPL games?

I find it interesting that you seem to be so anti-beIN for CPL and yet seem to be so pro-DAZN for CPL, when beIN is established as pretty much the only major specialty soccer channel in Canada, while DAZN Canada has literally announced what, the NFL Sunday Ticket and maybe one other program so far?

I agree that DAZN has a lot of potential, and I will be considering it for sure when it's released. However, I don't get the huge anti-beIN and pro-DAZN attitude at the moment at all.

You guys understand that there are actually very few casual general mainstream sports fans who don't follow soccer that are going to care about CPL, right? There are very few people out there who don't follow MLS at the moment who's going to suddenly say, oh wow, CPL so cool.

If anything, CPL should be targeting fans who already follow soccer, who already follow the European leagues, who may or may not follow MLS at the moment. The casual fans that you guys speak of, they will come out in droves because they want to enjoy the stadium experience in Hamilton and Winnipeg, but there's very few general sports fans who's going to tune in on TV or DAZN or wherever.

Edited July 25, 2017 by ironcub14

[ironcub14]

All that said, my original point still stands, I hugely favour Sportsnet over everybody else. And then TSN. And then CBC. And then beIN and DAZN. There's a strong chance Sportsnet, TSN and CBC will pass, which is why we do bring up beIN.

CPL has to target soccer fans when it comes to TV viewership, because people who care about soccer are going to be far more likely to tune in to watch CPL than those that don't care about soccer.

As for Youtube, I watch USL matches on Youtube weekly at the moment. It's nice, but it's got such an amateur feel to it. It should be a last resort, I'd rather CPL go with a "CPL Live" option and charge people $20/year or something.

[mpg_29]

15 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

I find it interesting that you seem to be so anti-beIN for CPL and yet seem to be so pro-DAZN for CPL, when beIN is established as pretty much the only major specialty soccer channel in Canada, while DAZN Canada has literally announced what, the NFL Sunday Ticket and maybe one other program so far?

I agree that DAZN has a lot of potential, and I will be considering it for sure when it's released. However, I don't get the huge anti-beIN and pro-DAZN attitude at the moment at all.

You guys understand that there are actually very few casual general mainstream sports fans who don't follow soccer that are going to care about CPL, right? There are very few people out there who don't follow MLS at the moment who's going to suddenly say, oh wow, CPL so cool.

If anything, CPL should be targeting fans who already follow soccer, who already follow the European leagues, who may or may not follow MLS at the moment. The casual fans that you guys speak of, they will come out in droves because they want to enjoy the stadium experience in Hamilton and Winnipeg, but there's very few general sports fans who's going to tune in on TV or DAZN or wherever.

There is definitely a market out there that would only get exposed to this league if it were on Sportsnet/TSN/CBC...I think it's pretty important actually. And it isn't even just about converting fans...it's also about saying "hey this things exists, is the real deal and here to stay". I mean I don't care about CFL..don't follow it, but I know it exists/am generally aware of it because it's on TSN. I think at least in the first 5 years or so being on TV will actually pretty important to put it in the minds of Canadians that this thing is here..

When it comes to DAZN vs beIN, that's becomes a completely separate argument in my mind. That isn't about exposing it to another audience as the consumer base would be small and niche. Anybody paying @20/mth is buying it because they are a hardcore fan of a certain sport...and in that regards beIN wins because it appeals more to soccer fans. (ie I have already contemplated buying beIN because of La Liga,...I wouldn't pay $3/mth to watch NFL...)

Also even if DAZN could gets some decent rights in Canada (which I am sceptical of) to attempt become more mainstream than beIN it's going to still going to be well behind Sportsnet Now which has NHL, every Jays game, occasional Raptors games, EPL games, WWE, shared Olympics coverage, curling, CHL....

[mpg_29]

59 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

All that said, my original point still stands, I hugely favour Sportsnet over everybody else. And then TSN. And then CBC. And then beIN and DAZN. There's a strong chance Sportsnet, TSN and CBC will pass, which is why we do bring up beIN.

CPL has to target soccer fans when it comes to TV viewership, because people who care about soccer are going to be far more likely to tune in to watch CPL than those that don't care about soccer.

As for Youtube, I watch USL matches on Youtube weekly at the moment. It's nice, but it's got such an amateur feel to it. It should be a last resort, I'd rather CPL go with a "CPL Live" option and charge people $20/year or something.

I think that may have more to do with the production to it than it being on Youtube. Aren't most USL matches a single camera panning back and forth...with a single announcer if one at all?  

[ironcub14]

20 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

There is definitely a market out there that would only get exposed to this league if it were on Sportsnet/TSN/CBC...I think it's pretty important actually. And it isn't even just about converting fans...it's also about saying "hey this things exists, is the real deal and here to stay". I mean I don't care about CFL..don't follow it, but I know it exists/am generally aware of it because it's on TSN. I think at least in the first 5 years or so being on TV will actually pretty important to put it in the minds of Canadians that this thing is here..

When it comes to DAZN vs beIN, that's becomes a completely separate argument in my mind. That isn't about exposing it to another audience as the consumer base would be small and niche. Anybody paying @20/mth is buying it because they are a hardcore fan of a certain sport...and in that regards beIN wins because it appeals more to soccer fans. (ie I have already contemplated buying beIN because of La Liga,...I wouldn't pay $3/mth to watch NFL...)

Also even if DAZN could gets some decent rights in Canada (which I am sceptical of) to attempt become more mainstream than beIN it's going to still going to be well behind Sportsnet Now which has NHL, every Jays game, occasional Raptors games, EPL games, WWE, shared Olympics coverage, curling, CHL....

Agreed with you 100%. And that's why, even though I said in my first post that I don't think there are many mainstream fans out there who don't follow MLS who will care enough to follow CPL, I do think that it's important for CPL to be out there, and which is why Sportsnet and TSN would be a dream come true.

And agreed on DAZN vs beIN, as of July 2017 anyways. If DAZN Canada comes us and blows away with even more coverage of footy and other sports, I'm all game to reconsider DAZN over beIN for CPL in a few month's time. The potential is there. But as of now, we're still waiting to see.

And as for Youtube, yep, it's definitely production quality for USL that I'm referring to for sure. But, I'm also referring to the aspect of logging in on Youtube and watching it for free and it feeling somehow a bit amateur, as well.

I watch important WCQs on Youtube, and I remember watching CanM23 play on CONCACAF's FB live a few times this year as well. It's nice to have these options, and I see MLB has put a couple games on Twitter as well. However, I hope Youtube doesn't end up becoming CPL's primary streaming option. It's one thing for MLB to put a free game on Twitter, they can afford to do so. But when I see that the only streaming option I have for a game is Youtube or Kodi, I know that's because there's little demand for it. That's the stigma CPL would face if its primary streaming option was Youtube.

[mpg_29]

I understand what you are saying...but Youtube is the most lightweight/stable/popular video platform in existence. It can handle 500 viewers or 100K viewers with virtually no issues. All CPL would have to do is produce the live games and not worry about anything else. 

It's too bad youtube doesn't allow channels to charge for events or subscriptions...or at least if they do I am not aware of it.

[Rheo]

32 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

It's too bad youtube doesn't allow channels to charge for events or subscriptions...or at least if they do I am not aware of it.

They do under their YouTube Red (I know some indie wrestling groups use it) but it doesn't appear to be in Canada according to wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube_Red

[Blackdude]

 

1 hour ago, mpg_29 said:

I understand what you are saying...but Youtube is the most lightweight/stable/popular video platform in existence. It can handle 500 viewers or 100K viewers with virtually no issues. All CPL would have to do is produce the live games and not worry about anything else. 

It's too bad youtube doesn't allow channels to charge for events or subscriptions...or at least if they do I am not aware of it.

Youtube allows channels to charge. CPL can have a free youtube channel (ie for preview highlights, breakdowns) an a pay-to-watch youtube channel (ie for matches ). I mean I've seen many channels that allow that, And @Rheo it's not like Youtube Red. Youtube Red is for not having ads and paying to not have ads and have unique content. 

[Rheo]

7 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

Youtube allows channels to charge. CPL can have a free youtube channel (ie for preview highlights, breakdowns) an a pay-to-watch youtube channel (ie for matches ). I mean I've seen many channels that allow that, And @Rheo it's not like Youtube Red. Youtube Red is for not having ads and paying to not have ads and have unique content. 

Thanks for the clarification.  Didn't know they were separate.  I knew Red had the original content so I just assumed it was all that.

[ironcub14]

52 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

 

Youtube allows channels to charge. CPL can have a free youtube channel (ie for preview highlights, breakdowns) an a pay-to-watch youtube channel (ie for matches ). I mean I've seen many channels that allow that, And @Rheo it's not like Youtube Red. Youtube Red is for not having ads and paying to not have ads and have unique content. 

That's nice to hear Youtube can charge, I haven't seen in myself but I'll take your word for it.

That said, I honestly hope Youtube remains a last-ditch option, for so many reasons.

[Ansem]

The key is exposure ahead of making money with TV

• Reach as many people on TV as possible even if it means giving it away to CBC. The whole nation can watch it and it's not like the CBC has that much interesting programming going on in the summer. It's good for small bars across the country who can't afford/won't pay crazy money for cable TV for their customers
• At the same time, get ahead of the curve in terms of streaming and social medias
• Once you get a track record on viewership and online streamers, then you can shop around for big $$$

[Alex D]

4 hours ago, Rheo said:

They do under their YouTube Red (I know some indie wrestling groups use it) but it doesn't appear to be in Canada according to wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube_Red

Not to be confused with Red Tube

[matty]

12 hours ago, ironcub14 said:

I find it interesting that you seem to be so anti-beIN for CPL and yet seem to be so pro-DAZN for CPL, when beIN is established as pretty much the only major specialty soccer channel in Canada, while DAZN Canada has literally announced what, the NFL Sunday Ticket and maybe one other program so far?

I agree that DAZN has a lot of potential, and I will be considering it for sure when it's released. However, I don't get the huge anti-beIN and pro-DAZN attitude at the moment at all.

I've noted several times "let's wait and see what they have in store". So far DAZN seeems to be gunning for a different market than beIN and it's the market that's the market the CPL should likely be playing for if it seeks survival and that's something to be excited by. beIN is very specialised to a fault, a lot of basic venues the CPL needs, like bars, do not give to fucks about La Liga, F1, rugby (if I recall no where in Halifax had beIN as of May, I might be wrong there) but they do care about the NFL and if DAZN has those rights it will be in bars everywhere in this nation and if it has NBA or ATP or MLB it will have mass appeal beIN lacks heavily.

12 hours ago, ironcub14 said:

You guys understand that there are actually very few casual general mainstream sports fans who don't follow soccer that are going to care about CPL, right? There are very few people out there who don't follow MLS at the moment who's going to suddenly say, oh wow, CPL so cool.

If anything, CPL should be targeting fans who already follow soccer, who already follow the European leagues, who may or may not follow MLS at the moment. The casual fans that you guys speak of, they will come out in droves because they want to enjoy the stadium experience in Hamilton and Winnipeg, but there's very few general sports fans who's going to tune in on TV or DAZN or wherever.

Here's what I think people are missing about DAZN: It's trying to be modeled after fucking Netflix, a platform somewhat designed on the idea of "here try this". As evidence has shown if people are bored they will try something.

It's also likely more encouraging for the casual fan of your example to notice the CPL is on the same service they watch NFL on rather than some channel with nothing else they really follow (again the NFL has a massive audience in Canada).

DAZN might not bring in a big audience but it could grant greater access to people than beIN does currently.

11 hours ago, mpg_29 said:

....When it comes to DAZN vs beIN, that's becomes a completely separate argument in my mind. That isn't about exposing it to another audience as the consumer base would be small and niche. Anybody paying @20/mth is buying it because they are a hardcore fan of a certain sport...and in that regards beIN wins because it appeals more to soccer fans. (ie I have already contemplated buying beIN because of La Liga,...I wouldn't pay $3/mth to watch NFL...)

Again wait and see what it has. If the line up is shit than yes beIN has the edge but if DAZN has a killer line up then beIN falls flat. $20 isn't that much if you're getting NFL, Bundesliga, NBA, ATP, WTA, ect.. And like I mentioned above bars would dig it.

11 hours ago, mpg_29 said:

Also even if DAZN could gets some decent rights in Canada (which I am sceptical of) to attempt become more mainstream than beIN it's going to still going to be well behind Sportsnet Now which has NHL, every Jays game, occasional Raptors games, EPL games, WWE, shared Olympics coverage, curling, CHL....

I'm sorry but will you shut up about Sportsnet Now. Bell customers don't get it and you have to subscribe to Sportsnet or pay $25/month.

[dyslexic nam]

On 7/25/2017 at 6:07 PM, Alex D said:

Not to be confused with Red Tube

Funny how many likes you are accumulating. 

[Ruffian]

DAZN has been released. A lot of English Championship (maybe all?) A lot of League 1, Argentina Primera and J1, J2 and J3 games. They say they also get Serie A and La Liga but I don't see any scheduled games yet. Decent library. Not sure main stream enough crossover to attract new Canadian CPL fans. 

[ironcub14]

14 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

DAZN has been released. A lot of English Championship (maybe all?) A lot of League 1, Argentina Primera and J1, J2 and J3 games. They say they also get Serie A and La Liga but I don't see any scheduled games yet. Decent library. Not sure main stream enough crossover to attract new Canadian CPL fans. 

Could you share a link? Looking at their site, their app, somewhere else?

[ironcub14]

Alright, I'm looking at this at the moment, encouraging.

https://www.dazn.com/en-CA

[Ruffian]

I signed up. https://www.dazn.com . Not sure if you can see the schedule unless you are signed up.

You have until Aug 27 I believe to cancel if you don't like it. But it already has older Argentinian games from June/July and recent J league games. All other games are scheduled. Mostly start the Aug 5 weekend. Looks like all League 1 games. Most English Championship. I don't see a Cardiff games scheduled to see Hoilett.

[BuzzAndSting]

My only hope is that they offer a portal without scores where you can log in and watch full match video after the fact. Arsenal offers this through an app and it's great because recording a stream is difficult and trying to find full match video without finding out the score is almost impossible.

[Ruffian]

Just now, BuzzAndSting said:

My only hope is that they offer a portal without scores where you can log in and watch full match video after the fact. Arsenal offers this through an app and it's great because recording a stream is difficult and trying to find full match video without finding out the score is almost impossible.

Most streaming services have this.