CPL TV Contract

[matty]

As this is the most balanced (between crazy/not crazy) thread active on CPL speculation I'm curious: Where do you not want CPL to end up and why?

Me: Yes TV because being a pro-sports league on a Christian broadcaster is really lame

[ironcub14]

I just got DAZN over the weekend, and have to say I'm really pleased with it overall.

What I thought was very interesting was that, with the exception of the J.League, most of its soccer content seems to be straight from beIN Sports, the two must have nearly certainly signed an agreement. The La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1, Championship, UCL, UEL, etc coverage, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I had beIn on cable 2 years ago and beIN Connect (their streaming version) last season, and with DAZN offering a literal live stream of the beIN Sports channel on its platforms as well, surely they must have signed a cooperative sharing agreement.

I found it interesting, because this is definitely going to dent beIN Connect's subscription numbers, but such is business. beIN focuses on their cable channel, DAZN provides the streaming option, and beIN Connect is there for anybody who wants it instead, I see from Google that it's still for $20/month. They should definitely cut that price if they want anybody to choose beIN Connect over DAZN.

I have to say, the NFL games on DAZN is a pretty sick complement to the beIN footy coverage it also has. If beIN doesn't cut their price to $15/month or so, and they probably won't, I'll probably stick with DAZN for this season. I'll connect this to CPL below.

[ironcub14]

For CPL, there's still many things to be seen obviously, but for me as of today, I'd rank my preferences for CPL as below. I'm sure we could easily see a combination of a number of choices below as well when CPL launches, who knows.

1. Sportsnet - the station's that's done more for Canadian soccer than any other imho. With SN Now, SN1 and SN360 offering coverage beyond the 4 regional channels, and with a stable of Cdn soccer reporters already at hand, this is the dream landing spot for CPL imho.

2. TSN - has been monopolizing all the soccer rights recently, but that's about it for me. Could go into detail on this, I'm no fan of TSN, but another dream spot for CPL overall.

3. CBC - you all know the situation on CBC better than I do. I've heard lots of conflicting things about CBC's sports coverage.

4. beIN/DAZN - I'd think that being on cable is more important than being available streaming. If beIN gets cable coverage of CPL, then CPL will also be made available on DAZN, win-win.

5. DAZN - If beIN passes on CPL because of its strong NASL connections, and with the two's Miami connections, not something to dismiss, then a streaming-only option with DAZN would be an okay substitute. But the lack of coverage on cable would be disconcerting overall.

6. CPL Live - last resort if it's the only option, but a great option if offered in combination with one of the options above.

7. TLN, etc - last resort for cable.

8. Youtube - last resort streaming-wise for me imho. It's great that USL is available on Youtube, but I think it reinforces the D3 masquerading as D2 perception onto its audience.

[ChrisinOrleans]

Since nobody has talked about it before, I'll chime in on the French-Language broadcasts. There are still around 10-million French speakers in the country, which is a large target market and while competitive, is often starved for content due to "Canadian Rights" often being awarded to english only competitors. 

A partnership with Radio-Canada (our CBC) needs to be struck. Radio-Canada is different than the CBC in that people actually watch. Weeknight programmes like Les pays d'en haut, Unité 9 and 19-2 are all critically acclaimed, and well watched. Advertising during these shows is a premium, but they are some of the most watched Canadian produced shows, period. Additionally, depending on the number of teams spread around the region, there are Radio-Canada affiliates in Sudbury, Ottawa/Gatineau, Montréal, Québec, Chicoutimi and Moncton/Acadie. Individual advertisements can be tailored to each market, depending on club success or local needs.

If the Women's World Cup taught us anything it is that for an event to be successful, it needs family types to show up. Sure, hardcore fans complained about the atmosphere, but lost in the cacophony was that we hosted the most well attended FIFA WWC ever, as well as the most watched. Part of that was owing to CTV - a local broadcaster - showing the games. It was accessible to everyone, including mom and pop on the couch at home, and kids at home watching it for the first time. Radio-Canada (and the CBC) hit that need. They're free, accessible and have access to experienced bilingual soccer commentators (*ahem, Karina LeBlanc anyone) that can talk about the game in terms that new fans will understand, and that people inspired by our women's team, or the 2018 World Cup, or Ronaldo or whatever, will understand and appreciate.  

TL;DR Radio-Canada and CBC should be the broadcaster of choice for a domestic league until we can afford to have an isolated and dedicated sporting audience. 

[ChrisinOrleans]

21 hours ago, ironcub14 said:

For CPL, there's still many things to be seen obviously, but for me as of today, I'd rank my preferences for CPL as below. I'm sure we could easily see a combination of a number of choices below as well when CPL launches, who knows.

1. Sportsnet - the station's that's done more for Canadian soccer than any other imho. With SN Now, SN1 and SN360 offering coverage beyond the 4 regional channels, and with a stable of Cdn soccer reporters already at hand, this is the dream landing spot for CPL imho.

2. TSN - has been monopolizing all the soccer rights recently, but that's about it for me. Could go into detail on this, I'm no fan of TSN, but another dream spot for CPL overall.

I follow your logic, but would be inclined to disagree.

Sportsnet and TSN cater to established sports fans. If the CanPL does go after a contract with either of those networks, they'll be putting their quality up against the quality of MLS and the Euro Leagues. Economically speaking, they simply won't be able to compete against a higher quality product, with a dedicated fanbase, in an established time slot, with an inferior look and feel. Don't think like a Voyageur - we're the last people they should be interviewing. We show up to games rain or shine. They don't need our opinion, it's casual fans they need to attract (and retain).  

For example, TSN owns the rights to VWFC and TFC on TSN, and Sportsnet shows La Liga and EPL on weekends. That means that CanPL would - assuming a regular weekend schedule - be broadcast at relatively the same time as a much higher caliber of soccer. Would the average fan rather watch Réal Madrid or Paris Saint-Germain (Or l'Impact de Montréal) in a 25k sold out stadium where Didier Drogba plays... or the whatevers from Regina? There is no advantage to being on TSN or Sportsnet, as hardcore sports fans will tune it out, and there is no incentive to watch a "Canadian" product anyway, since most of the people watching the Euro leagues do so in spite of domestic alternatives anyway. 

Economically, it would make more sense to penetrate existing markets that don't have access to premium sporting packages and all the market bias that entails. Principally, CBC/Radio-Canada viewers would be prime. They have Karina LeBlanc to do commentary (whose been to a World Cup or two, and the Olympics - meaning she is our most experienced commentator) and they are not competing against Euro leagues OR the MLS. This market is advantageous for CanPL as well, as it is domestic regional content, meaning the CBC can receive subsidies to produce the match shows.  

After all, between 1994 and 2005, MLS and the MLS Cup were broadcast on ABC in the US (with 8 - 10 games a year on ESPN). There wasn't even a fee paid for the first few years, if I recall correctly. 

I can't comment on the other networks because I've never heard of most. Apologies for the ignorance. 

[dyslexic nam]

2 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I follow your logic, but would be inclined to disagree.

Sportsnet and TSN cater to established sports fans. If the CanPL does go after a contract with either of those networks, they'll be putting their quality up against the quality of MLS and the Euro Leagues. Economically speaking, they simply won't be able to compete against a higher quality product, with a dedicated fanbase, in an established time slot, with an inferior look and feel. Don't think like a Voyageur - we're the last people they should be interviewing. We show up to games rain or shine. They don't need our opinion, it's casual fans they need to attract (and retain).  

For example, TSN owns the rights to VWFC and TFC on TSN, and Sportsnet shows La Liga and EPL on weekends. That means that CanPL would - assuming a regular weekend schedule - be broadcast at relatively the same time as a much higher caliber of soccer. Would the average fan rather watch Réal Madrid or Paris Saint-Germain (Or l'Impact de Montréal) in a 25k sold out stadium where Didier Drogba plays... or the whatevers from Regina? There is no advantage to being on TSN or Sportsnet, as hardcore sports fans will tune it out, and there is no incentive to watch a "Canadian" product anyway, since most of the people watching the Euro leagues do so in spite of domestic alternatives anyway. 

Economically, it would make more sense to penetrate existing markets that don't have access to premium sporting packages and all the market bias that entails. Principally, CBC/Radio-Canada viewers would be prime. They have Karina LeBlanc to do commentary (whose been to a World Cup or two, and the Olympics - meaning she is our most experienced commentator) and they are not competing against Euro leagues OR the MLS. This market is advantageous for CanPL as well, as it is domestic regional content, meaning the CBC can receive subsidies to produce the match shows.  

After all, between 1994 and 2005, MLS and the MLS Cup were broadcast on ABC in the US (with 8 - 10 games a year on ESPN). There wasn't even a fee paid for the first few years, if I recall correctly. 

I can't comment on the other networks because I've never heard of most. Apologies for the ignorance. 

 

I think the bolded portion will be true no matter where the games are broadcast.  Pretty much every sports fan either has those channels, or has access to the content via streaming options (licit or otherwise).  Thus, CanPL games will have to compete with the more mainstream soccer offerings no matter where it is broadcast.  In light of that, I think the two big sports channels are still the best options simply due to the exposure they would provide right out of the gates.   I would love to see CBC get broadcasting rights simply due to a bit of nostalgia (and for other reasons I already articulated - saturation, sole focus, etc) but the association with one of our major sports channels - as well as the potential revenue that could entail - make them the top choice IMO.

[ironcub14]

3 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I follow your logic, but would be inclined to disagree.

Sportsnet and TSN cater to established sports fans. If the CanPL does go after a contract with either of those networks, they'll be putting their quality up against the quality of MLS and the Euro Leagues. Economically speaking, they simply won't be able to compete against a higher quality product, with a dedicated fanbase, in an established time slot, with an inferior look and feel. Don't think like a Voyageur - we're the last people they should be interviewing. We show up to games rain or shine. They don't need our opinion, it's casual fans they need to attract (and retain).  

For example, TSN owns the rights to VWFC and TFC on TSN, and Sportsnet shows La Liga and EPL on weekends. That means that CanPL would - assuming a regular weekend schedule - be broadcast at relatively the same time as a much higher caliber of soccer. Would the average fan rather watch Réal Madrid or Paris Saint-Germain (Or l'Impact de Montréal) in a 25k sold out stadium where Didier Drogba plays... or the whatevers from Regina? There is no advantage to being on TSN or Sportsnet, as hardcore sports fans will tune it out, and there is no incentive to watch a "Canadian" product anyway, since most of the people watching the Euro leagues do so in spite of domestic alternatives anyway. 

Economically, it would make more sense to penetrate existing markets that don't have access to premium sporting packages and all the market bias that entails. Principally, CBC/Radio-Canada viewers would be prime. They have Karina LeBlanc to do commentary (whose been to a World Cup or two, and the Olympics - meaning she is our most experienced commentator) and they are not competing against Euro leagues OR the MLS. This market is advantageous for CanPL as well, as it is domestic regional content, meaning the CBC can receive subsidies to produce the match shows.  

After all, between 1994 and 2005, MLS and the MLS Cup were broadcast on ABC in the US (with 8 - 10 games a year on ESPN). There wasn't even a fee paid for the first few years, if I recall correctly. 

I can't comment on the other networks because I've never heard of most. Apologies for the ignorance. 

All good points, but I've heard a lot of pessimistic viewpoints on CBC Sports overall. I know you said that Radio-Canada is more influential in Quebec compared to CBC in the rest of Canada, so perhaps that explain some of where you're coming from as well.

The points you make about TSN are completely legitimate but I think less so for Sportsnet. They've lost both the CanMNT and the UCL coverage to TSN completely, and always seem to have the less popular TFC and Prem matches on compared to TSN. They don't have any La Liga coverage from what I know, and have some Bundesliga coverage that's nearly always put on SN World instead of their main channels.

Sportsnet would be a perfect landing spot for CPL precisely because they've lost a ton of good soccer rights to TSN over the last few years. As for the weekend schedule, I doubt that CPL will overlap with European football. What CPL has to do is avoid Jays, MLS and CFL timeslots when it can. And CFL is all TSN as well. All Sportsnet has for the summer is the Jays, the Prem and a few MLS games, if I recall correctly.

Sportsnet >> CBC. I say all this trying to think as much like a mainstream fan as I can, not as a Voyageur.

[ChrisinOrleans]

16 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

All good points, but I've heard a lot of pessimistic viewpoints on CBC Sports overall. I know you said that Radio-Canada is more influential in Quebec compared to CBC in the rest of Canada, so perhaps that explain some of where you're coming from as well.

The points you make about TSN are completely legitimate but I think less so for Sportsnet. They've lost both the CanMNT and the UCL coverage to TSN completely, and always seem to have the less popular TFC and Prem matches on compared to TSN. They don't have any La Liga coverage from what I know, and have some Bundesliga coverage that's nearly always put on SN World instead of their main channels.

Sportsnet would be a perfect landing spot for CPL precisely because they've lost a ton of good soccer rights to TSN over the last few years. As for the weekend schedule, I doubt that CPL will overlap with European football. What CPL has to do is avoid Jays, MLS and CFL timeslots when it can. And CFL is all TSN as well. All Sportsnet has for the summer is the Jays, the Prem and a few MLS games, if I recall correctly.

Sportsnet >> CBC. I say all this trying to think as much like a mainstream fan as I can, not as a Voyageur.

Fair points all, and sorry, I was confusing La Liga with the Bundesliga. 

I think you're 100% correct with avoiding the Jays and the CFL (although since they'll be sharing stadiums, avoiding the CFL will probably come naturally, I guess). yeah, I am pretty much coming at this from the Francophone lens without a lot of insight into the rest of the country. 

That being said, perhaps the CanPL could divide the media into "French" and 'English", and have Radio-Canada do the French broadcasts and Sportsnet do the English ones, since I don't think a Sportsnet equivalent even exists in French (RDS is TSN owned). If Sportsnet is the soccer hub you're making it out to be, then yeah, CanPL would benefit from them a lot. Still, not sure if CanPL would make money on the rights for the first few years though... 

Incidentally, I just saw your Twitter handle. I believe we've met at an Ottawa Fury game before. Part of the ByTown Boys, if I'm not mistaken (I've only been in the supporters section once, so I could be mistaken).

[ironcub14]

13 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

Fair points all, and sorry, I was confusing La Liga with the Bundesliga. 

I think you're 100% correct with avoiding the Jays and the CFL (although since they'll be sharing stadiums, avoiding the CFL will probably come naturally, I guess). yeah, I am pretty much coming at this from the Francophone lens without a lot of insight into the rest of the country. 

That being said, perhaps the CanPL could divide the media into "French" and 'English", and have Radio-Canada do the French broadcasts and Sportsnet do the English ones, since I don't think a Sportsnet equivalent even exists in French (RDS is TSN owned). If Sportsnet is the soccer hub you're making it out to be, then yeah, CanPL would benefit from them a lot. Still, not sure if CanPL would make money on the rights for the first few years though... 

Incidentally, I just saw your Twitter handle. I believe we've met at an Ottawa Fury game before. Part of the ByTown Boys, if I'm not mistaken (I've only been in the supporters section once, so I could be mistaken).

How are you doing man, I recognized you on your first post on this forum here

What you said above sounds great, and it's great you're providing more and more insight into the CPL from a Quebecois point of view. I think we all agree that a team in Quebec is a must as soon as possible, if not multiple teams.

I'm going to step away for a bit, but could you tell us a bit about the difference between RDS and TVA and any other candidates you have in mind? And how about Sportsnet East, what's the potential role do you think it can play? You could even do a quick list of your preferences if you like.

Cheers man.

Edited August 15, 2017 by ironcub14

[ChrisinOrleans]

24 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

How are you doing man, I recognized you on your first post on this forum here

What you said above sounds great, and it's great you're providing more and more insight into the CPL from a Quebecois point of view. I think we all agree that a team in Quebec is a must as soon as possible, if not multiple teams.

I'm going to step away for a bit, but could you tell us a bit about the difference between RDS and TVA and any other candidates you have in mind? And how about Sportsnet East, what's the potential role do you think it can play? You could even do a quick list of your preferences if you like.

Cheers man.

Oh man now I sound like a dunce for not clueing in sooner haha - sorry man!! I've been great, had to stop going to Fury games because Dalglish was awful for my blood pressure. I'll try to provide a Franco-Ontarian / Québécois / Acadian viewpoint as best I can, but all three markets are different.

So, TVA Sports is the dominant sports network in Québec for hockey, because Québecor owns them and they have a ton of money. They were always a little hit and miss for soccer, but in the last 2-3 years they've really hopped onto the IMFC bandwagon and done wonders for their coverage. Case in point, IMFC gets around 80,000 viewers per game, while TFC/VWFC get around 60,000 each. TVA Sports produces little segments they air on weeknights about Laurent Ciman's family, or Oyongo's journey from Francophone Africa, or the run to the CCL Finals, etc... They've done wonders for the game in Québec. 

RDS has never done that. Since they're owned by Bell, their only coverage of the Impact has been the odd game or two they were awarded, and they always phoned it in. They had a few IMFC players from back in the day as hosts, but Bell has always been concentrated on hockey in the ROC, and that left very little money in the French marketplace for other sports. TVA can outdraw RDS at a 2:1 ratio for most sports, especially Canadian gridiron and university sports. TVA Sports has two feeds (the original intent was for Habs on one, and Nordiques on the other), while RDS also has two feeds, they often duplicate content from their TSN streams. TVA Sports also has the Jays (loaded with Expos commentary) which bumps their viewership.  

The problem with both of these stations is two-fold; one - neither has very good penetration into the Acadian or Franco-Ontarian markets, which will be a huge issue for potential teams in Moncton/Ottawa/Sudbury. The one advantage TVA Sports has is that they recently (as of 2012?) moved into Eastern Ontario, and serve the primarily Francophone counties of Glengarry, Prescott-Russell and most of Eastern Ottawa (Orléans and Vanier) with their telephone and cable network Vidéotron, so TVA sports is widening its penetration in Ontario. The second problem is that while TVA is by far the most watched television network in Québec (28% market share), TVA Sports is an option for almost all packages - even those subscribed to Vidéotron (myself included). Radio-Canada on the other hand has around 20% market share, but dedicated local streams in 10 Québec markets, 3 Ontario markets (Windsor, Ottawa, Sudbury/nord) and one in Moncton/Acadia. However, sports commentary on RDS is terrible compared to TVA and RDS. 

All of the three options have some big drawbacks, and some major advantages. 

[ReedOnTheGrand]

16 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

The problem with both of these stations is two-fold; one - neither has very good penetration into the Acadian or Franco-Ontarian markets, which will be a huge issue for potential teams in Moncton/Ottawa/Sudbury. The one advantage TVA Sports has is that they recently (as of 2012?) moved into Eastern Ontario, and serve the primarily Francophone counties of Glengarry, Prescott-Russell and most of Eastern Ottawa (Orléans and Vanier) with their telephone and cable network Vidéotron, so TVA sports is widening its penetration in Ontario. The second problem is that while TVA is by far the most watched television network in Québec (28% market share), TVA Sports is an option for almost all packages - even those subscribed to Vidéotron (myself included). Radio-Canada on the other hand has around 20% market share, but dedicated local streams in 10 Québec markets, 3 Ontario markets (Windsor, Ottawa, Sudbury/nord) and one in Moncton/Acadia. However, sports commentary on RDS is terrible compared to TVA and RDS. 

All of the three options have some big drawbacks, and some major advantages. 

Ya I don't think my french family or I have ever had TVA in Southern Ontario(Sarnia which has a surprisingly large french community or Kitchener). My friend/family in Ottawa gets good french coverage from what I've seen, I believe it's the same with my family up in the Nipissing/North Bay area.  

[ChrisinOrleans]

8 minutes ago, ReedOnTheGrand said:

Ya I don't think my french family or I have ever had TVA in Southern Ontario(Sarnia which has a surprisingly large french community or Kitchener). My friend/family in Ottawa gets good french coverage from what I've seen, I believe it's the same with my family up in the Nipissing/North Bay area.  

I'm from Sarnia (was just there last weekend)!!! I petitioned the city council there to raise a Franco-Ontarien flag. Awesome city.

Nope, TVA is only in 4 counties right now, and has plans to be up north by 2020 I think. Nothing for SW Ontario, just RDS Windsor and TFO is all we have. 

[ReedOnTheGrand]

Just now, ChrisinOrleans said:

I'm from Sarnia (was just there last weekend)!!! I petitioned the city council there to raise a Franco-Ontarien flag. Awesome city.

Nope, TVA is only in 4 counties right now, and has plans to be up north by 2020 I think. Nothing for SW Ontario, just RDS Windsor and TFO is all we have. 

What are the chances man, I'm actually from Corunna and left when I was little but it's cool to see people from the area. I was there about a week ago too!   

[Kent]

For me I think a big thing would be getting CPL highlights on TSN and/or Sportsnet's news shows. If one of them has the broadcast rights, I think that increases (but doesn't guarantee) the chances of highlights making it onto their show. That's maybe the biggest reason why I would prefer one of them to get it.

[matty]

Cord-cutting has officially slowed greatly this year http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cord-cutting-mario-mota-1.4246518

[Complete Homer]

@ChrisinOrleans aren't French language broadcast rights often sold separately? Or am I mixing that up? 

[ChrisinOrleans]

1 hour ago, Complete Homer said:

@ChrisinOrleans aren't French language broadcast rights often sold separately? Or am I mixing that up? 

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Depends on whether national rights are sold. Since that isn't an option for CanPL and we're only one country, I would assume that would happen. 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

14 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

Don't think like a Voyageur

aw.  but that's how I make it outta bed every morning

sad

[Blackdude]

Here's the thing about Radio-Canada, they don't show sports. They haven't for a while. They will only show Olympic sports and by that I mean sports where the Olympic is the pinnacle (So World Championship of Athletics and Figure Skating are in there). I know the Impact had games on there until 2011, but they don't have a good track record in showing sports. CPL won't have the reach that University Football had (which is the last local sports entity they had until TVA Sports stepped in to take it) And I think it's a non-starter unless there's a team in the province of Quebec and it would only be showing that one team. Now, can it be streamed on Radio-Canada.ca ? That's a possibility since they have some sports streaming options, but even then, those streams are often without commentators and I'm sure the Anglophone rights holder would say no to that if they're only here to play it without commentary. I don't see putting that on Artv or Explora because it's not really in their mandate in being more channels on arts and science.

I do think that if CPL is talking for a French TV rights broadcast only happens if there's a team in Quebec. Without it, it's a non-starter and I'd be shocked that they would show two teams from outside Quebec unless it's the playoffs, even Moncton. TVA Sports' MLS deal has them covering a total of 0 non-Impact regular season games. 

[matty]

Not official but saw this on Reddit https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClUri6xMhnuKOa3Xm93EE8g/featured looks like a planned fan-run podcast/fan video/maybe live streaming thing. Nice to see CPL focused news outlets starting

Edited September 2, 2017 by matty

[Complete Homer]

25 minutes ago, matty said:

Not official but saw this on Reddit https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClUri6xMhnuKOa3Xm93EE8g/featured looks like a planned fan-run podcast/fan video/maybe live streaming thing. Nice to see CPL focused news outlets starting

I bet someone who posts here is running it. @ironcub14? 

[matty]

8 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

I bet someone who posts here is running it. @ironcub14? 

Like 99% sure it is. Whoever it is, please don't do one of those livestream news sites that just stream rallies, tailgate style parties and shit. Have actual substance and work with people.

Edited September 2, 2017 by matty

[ironcub14]

On 2017-09-02 at 1:24 PM, Complete Homer said:

I bet someone who posts here is running it. @ironcub14? 

Not me sorry  I did find out who's running the mighty fine CanPL supporters instagram account, really well done. 

[matty]

Tiny thing as GameTV has been mentioned as a possible contender for their willingness to take risks on new ventures liek the Wolfpack, eSports and wrestling.

GameTV's parent company Anthem is apparently looking to dump GFW (formerly TNA) cause it's bleeding money and caused them to guy Fight Network. GFW is Anthem's biggest asset currently so it's failure could have a big impact  on if they go about taking risks with programming and business.

Seems unlikely to have any IMPACT on CPL but figure I'd mention it

Edited September 6, 2017 by matty

[Blackjack15]

Would CBC or City TV be interested? Don't expect to see TSN, Sportsnet to broadcast CPL