Cyle Larin

[Ruffian]

55 minutes ago, Fastfeet2 said:

England Spain Germany Italy France Holland Belgium and arguably Turkey and China are better leagues than MLS imo. 

Netherlands, Belgium, Turkey, Scotland, Portugal and some other Euro leagues all have better teams and I included those teams in my opinion of where I would prefer him to go. I would love to know how you could rate China higher than MLS? Pretty hard to compare two leagues that are relatively new with no direct competition.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Fastfeet2 said:

England Spain Germany Italy France Holland Belgium and arguably Turkey and China are better leagues than MLS imo. 

China only has 3 stars per team at most then the rest are Chinese. 

[matty]

2 hours ago, Fastfeet2 said:

England Spain Germany Italy France Holland Belgium and arguably Turkey and China are better leagues than MLS imo. 

I'd say only England, Spain, Germany, Mexico and Italy are outright better, France is on average better, Holland, Turkey, Portugal and Russia have way stronger top fives but are weaker on average, Belgium is on par with MLS but with better room to grow and China is richer but weaker.

If MLS was in UEFA it would be top 10 likely. Maybe a league that's teams do well in Europa

Edited May 1, 2017 by matty

[Fastfeet2]

1 hour ago, Ruffian said:

Netherlands, Belgium, Turkey, Scotland, Portugal and some other Euro leagues all have better teams and I included those teams in my opinion of where I would prefer him to go. I would love to know how you could rate China higher than MLS? Pretty hard to compare two leagues that are relatively new with no direct competition.

Because Renato Augusto,Yilmaz,Igahlo,Paulinho,Jelavic,Jackson Martinez,Lavezzi,Hernanes,M'Bia,Ramires, Teixeira,Tevez,Pelle,Guarin,Cisse,Hulk,Oscar,Carvalho,Pato,Witsel and Obi Mikel  are excellent Internationals in my opinion.

[matty]

5 minutes ago, Fastfeet2 said:

Because Renato Augusto,Yilmaz,Igahlo,Paulinho,Jelavic,Jackson Martinez,Lavezzi,Hernanes,M'Bia,Ramires, Teixeira,Tevez,Pelle,Guarin,Cisse,Hulk,Oscar,Carvalho,Pato,Witsel and Obi Mikel  are excellent Internationals in my opinion.

Yea but that's over 16 teams and everyone else playing is Chinese and China is worse at soccer than the US.

[Kent]

53 minutes ago, Fastfeet2 said:

Because Renato Augusto,Yilmaz,Igahlo,Paulinho,Jelavic,Jackson Martinez,Lavezzi,Hernanes,M'Bia,Ramires, Teixeira,Tevez,Pelle,Guarin,Cisse,Hulk,Oscar,Carvalho,Pato,Witsel and Obi Mikel  are excellent Internationals in my opinion.

Based on the points awarded here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_AFC_Champions_League#Association_team_allocation

If the Chinese league is ahead of MLS, then so are the leagues of UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Qatar, South Korea and Japan.

Or from this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_MA_Ranking

That would put just UAE, South Korea, Qatar and Saudi Arabia, dropping Japan and Iran. I'm not sure why the numbers are different between the two lists, and I don't care enough to read through those pages. Just thought I'd point out that seeing a recognizable name doesn't tell you everything about the league quality.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Gotta say it: Orlando just paying him that, less than 200 grand, is cheap and insulting. Yeah, he's young, he is our reference in attack and we're leading the league. And we'll pay him shit because we can get away with it. We'll put him beside Kaká at like 35 times more salary, 3500% more, and they'll be our attacking tandem. If and when Ricardo is healthy of course.

Reminds me of the arrogance of Whitecaps with Camilo, league leader in scoring, we are going to be cheap with him, cause hey, there's a line on the contract that says we can get away with it (then surprise, surprise). None of the usual, proper, normal, decent, ethical business decision to give your best frigging employee a major raise so he feels valued. 

Or the standard soccer principle that you unilaterally raise a player's salary, and then, obviously, you can ask more when you transfer him as he is worth more. Because you made him worth more.

I mean, he's Canadian and does not even look 'merican so let's pay him garbage and treat him 3rd class. 

Then watch how they'll expect him to say thank-you, thank-you, thank-you, walking backward and kowtowing all the way out the door.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Unnamed Trialist

[lazlo_80]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Gotta say it: Orlando just paying him that, less than 200 grand, is cheap and insulting. Yeah, he's young, he is our reference in attack and we're leading the league. And we'll pay him shit because we can get away with it. We'll put him beside Kaká at like 35 more salary, and they'll be our attacking tandem. When Ricardo is healthy of course.

Reminds me of the arrogance of Whitecaps with Camilo, league leader in scoring, we are going to be cheap with him, cause hey, there's a line on the contract that says we can get away with it (then surprise, surprise). None of the usual, proper, normal, decent, ethical business decision to give your best frigging employee a major raise so he feels valued. 

Or the standard soccer principle that you unilaterally raise a player's salary, and then, obviously, you can ask more when you transfer him as he is worth more. Because you made him worth more.

I mean, he's Canadian and does not even look 'merican so let's pay him garbage and treat him 3rd class. 

Then watch how they'll except him to say thank-you, thank-you, thank-you, walking backward and kowtowing all the way out the door.

Kreis has said if he wants to re-negotiate his contract they're happy to start talking right away.The fact he hasn't signed a new contract just means he's as good as gone. 

It's not arrogance, it's just playing out an existing contract because you don't plan on sticking around.

 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, lazlo_80 said:

Kreis has said if he wants to re-negotiate his contract they're happy to start talking right away.The fact he hasn't signed a new contract just means he's as good as gone. 

It's not arrogance, it's just playing out an existing contract because you don't plan on sticking around.

Thanks, that the only possible answer I would give too. I think you are right on, or at least hope you are. 

Keeping his salary down and not renegotiating makes him more eligible for better transfers, no doubt. 

I personally think that getting him into better more competitive soccer is a good idea, he's ready.

[Obinna]

4 hours ago, Fastfeet2 said:

Because Renato Augusto,Yilmaz,Igahlo,Paulinho,Jelavic,Jackson Martinez,Lavezzi,Hernanes,M'Bia,Ramires, Teixeira,Tevez,Pelle,Guarin,Cisse,Hulk,Oscar,Carvalho,Pato,Witsel and Obi Mikel  are excellent Internationals in my opinion.

@Kent

@matty

@canta15

@Ruffian

I was curious to see how the international players (1 senior cap or more) in MLS stacked up against the Chinese Super League, so I did a little digging. This is what I found after picking four teams from each league:

MLS

Toronto: Bradley (USA), Altidore (USA), Beitashour (Iran), Morrow (USA), Osorio (Canada), Chapman (Canada), Cooper (Panama), Giovinco (Italy), Hernandez (Puerto Rico), Moor (USA), Mavinga (Congo), Morgan (Canada) Hamilton (Canada) 13

Vancouver: Montero (Colombia), Bolanos (Costa Rica), Watson (Costa Rica), Teibert (Canada), Tchani (Cameroon), Shea (USA), Edgar (Canada), DeJong (Canada), Reyna (Peru), Bustos (Canada), McKendry (Canada) 11

Seattle: Lodeiro (Uruguay), Dempsey (USA), Morris (USA), Fisher (Jamaica), Torres (Panama), Marshall (USA), Bruin (USA), Jones (T&T), Svensson (Sweden), Fernandez (Uruguay), Alonso (Cuba) 11

San Jose: Bernardez (Honduras), Wondolowski (USA), Wynne (USA), Hyka (Albania), Cato (T&T), Francis (Jamaica), Godoy (Panama), Cummings (Panama), Dawkins (Jamaica), Urena (Costa Rica), Ceren (El Salvador), Colvey (New Zealand). 12

 

Italy: 1

Uruguay: 2

Colombia: 1

USA: 10

Cameroon: 1

Costa Rica: 3

Sweden: 1

Peru: 1

Honduras: 1

Panama: 3

Albania: 1

Iran: 1

T&T: 2

Jamaica: 2

Congo: 1

New Zealand: 1

Canada: 9

El Salvador: 1

Cuba: 1

Puerto Rico: 1

TOTAL: 47

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CSL

Chongqing Dangdai: Milovic (Croatia), Woo-Young (South Korea), Liu Yu (China), Xu Yang (China), Chen Lei (China) 5

Henan Jianye: Ahmad Al-Salih (Syria), Bořek Dočkal (Czech Republic), Javier Patiño (Philippines), Christian Bassogog (Cameroon), Feng Gang (China), Chen Zijie (China) 6

Guangzhou Evergrande: Liao Lisheng (China), Mei Fang (China), Zhang Linpeng (China), Feng Xiaoting (China), Paulinho (Brazil), Martinez (Colombia), Zheng Zhi (China), Goulart (Brazil), Rong Hao (China), Zhang Wenzhao (China), Huang Bowen (China), Liu Jian (China), Zeng Cheng (China), Yu Hanchao (China), Zhang Chenglin (China), Kim Hyung-Il (South Korea), Zou Zheng (China), Wang Jingbin (China), Zheng Long (China), Gao Lin (China), Li Xuepeng (China) 21

 Shanghai SIPG FC: Yan Junling (China), Cai Huikang (China), Wu Lei (China), Oscar (Brazil), Hulk (Brazil), Carvahlo (Portugal), Yu Hai (China), Odil Ahmedov (Uzbekistan), Shi Ke (China) 9

 

Brazil: 4

Portugal: 1

Colombia: 1

Croatia: 1

Cameroon: 1

South Korea: 2

Czech Republic: 1

Uzbekistan: 1

China: 27

Syria: 1

Philippians: 1

TOTAL: 41

Edited May 1, 2017 by Obinna

[Fastfeet2]

For anyone discounting the Chinese footballers, they're ranked higher than canada in world. Their whole National team plays domestically. 

Not trying to start an argument with anyone, just giving my opinion on why i said the CSL is arguably better than MLS. 

[Obinna]

10 minutes ago, Fastfeet2 said:

For anyone discounting the Chinese footballers, they're ranked higher than canada in world. Their whole National team plays domestically. 

Not trying to start an argument with anyone, just giving my opinion on why i said the CSL is arguably better than MLS. 

What are your thoughts on my post? I'm very interested to hear your thoughts on it, given your opinion that the CSL is arguably better than MLS.

As for your "they're ranked higher than canada" comment, I'd like to point out that the USA are ranked higher than china in world. That is the real comparison you should be making, in my opinion. Don't forget that MLS is an AMERICAN league.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Obinna

[One American]

Larin is the best prospect MLS has had since Clint Dempsey. It's going to cost real money to buy him. 

[Fastfeet2]

8 minutes ago, Obinna said:

What are your thoughts on my post? I'm very interested to hear your thoughts on it, given your opinion that the CSL is arguably better than MLS.

As for your "they're ranked higher than canada" comment, I'd like to point out that the USA are ranked higher than china in world. That is the real comparison you should be making, in my opinion. Don't forget that MLS is an AMERICAN league.

Your 4 teams you picked didnt have Carlos Tevez, Axel Witsel, Graziano Pelle, Ramires, Fredy Guarin, Burak Yilmaz, Ezeiquel Lavezzi, Alex Texiera, Nikica Jelavic, Renato Augusto, Hernanes,Stephen M'bia,Papiss Cisse, or Alex Pato thats what i would say. These are champions league quality players, and I feel like MLS lacks champions league quality. MLS internationals play in Gold Cups. China internationals play in the Euros, Copa Americas, Afcons and AFCs

And no, I was comparing the Chinese to Canada so Canadian fans can see they are in no position to insult the quality of another nation ranked higher than them.

[Gordon]

14 hours ago, Ruffian said:

There is contradicting evidence that his contract runs for another 2 and a half years. Some places say it is done this winter. I have heard people comment the contract has 2 year team options, but I have yet to see proof of this.

Been a while, but wasn't that the hole in Camillo's contract?  A team held option year not being recognized. 

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Fastfeet2 said:

Your 4 teams you picked didnt have Carlos Tevez, Axel Witsel, Graziano Pelle, Ramires, Fredy Guarin, Burak Yilmaz, Ezeiquel Lavezzi, Alex Texiera, Nikica Jelavic, Renato Augusto, Hernanes,Stephen M'bia,Papiss Cisse, or Alex Pato thats what i would say. These are champions league quality players, and I feel like MLS lacks champions league quality. MLS internationals play in Gold Cups. China internationals play in the Euros, Copa Americas, Afcons and AFCs

And no, I was comparing the Chinese to Canada so Canadian fans can see they are in no position to insult the quality of another nation ranked higher than them.

That's it? Nothing on 29 of 41 internationals being Chinese? A team that consistently fails to make the World Cup? 

19 of the 47 MLS-based internationals represent teams who played in the last World Cup, compared to 10 out of 41 in the CSL. It doesn't take a math wiz to notice MLS has more internationals who represent World Cup calibre teams. This gives me reason to believe that MLS teams have better depth and are thus stronger.

You won't convince anyone if you lean on the "superstar" argument. Soccer is a team sport and the depth of the team is more important. That's why Liga MX teams still beat MLS on a regular basis. Compared to the Mexican league, MLS has better superstars, but it's the depth that counts.

By your logic, the CSL is better than Liga MX because of Tevez, Hulk, John Obi, etc. etc.

Am I making a fair argument here?

 

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Fastfeet2 said:

Your 4 teams you picked didnt have Carlos Tevez, Axel Witsel, Graziano Pelle, Ramires, Fredy Guarin, Burak Yilmaz, Ezeiquel Lavezzi, Alex Texiera, Nikica Jelavic, Renato Augusto, Hernanes,Stephen M'bia,Papiss Cisse, or Alex Pato thats what i would say. These are champions league quality players, and I feel like MLS lacks champions league quality. MLS internationals play in Gold Cups. China internationals play in the Euros, Copa Americas, Afcons and AFCs

And no, I was comparing the Chinese to Canada so Canadian fans can see they are in no position to insult the quality of another nation ranked higher than them.

David Villa, Kaka, Andrea Pirlo, Baston schweinsteiger, Giovanni Dos Santos, Jermaine Jones, Sasha Klejstan, Romain Alessandrini, Jelle Van Damme, Laurent Ciman, Ashley Cole, Tim Howard, Shkëlzen Gashi, Antonio Nocerino.

Had fun putting together this list of "champions league quality" players. They've all played in the competition. Even a few winners there as well. Few more than in your list I think 

[Guest]

Canadians have the right to critique Chinese players when someone brings up the arguement that the Chinese league is better than MLS

Edited May 2, 2017 by Guest

[Fastfeet2]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

David Villa, Kaka, Andrea Pirlo, Baston schweinsteiger, Giovanni Dos Santos, Jermaine Jones, Sasha Klejstan, Romain Alessandrini, Jelle Van Damme, Laurent Ciman, Ashley Cole, Tim Howard, Shkëlzen Gashi, Antonio Nocerino.

Had fun putting together this list of "champions league quality" players. They've all played in the competition. Even a few winners there as well. Few more than in your list I think 

Like i said before, not trying to start a argument, but David Villa Basti Pirlo Kaka Ashley Cole Howard Nocerino are old farts, they no longer play at world cups or at champions league level. CSL got Axel and Oscar in their prime, MLS got Bradley and Altidore.

 

By my logic the CSL is better Liga MX? Don't put words in my mouth, or make false accusations towards me. I said CSL is arguably better than MLS,  not sure where Liga MX came from. 

If you disagree, cool. There's plenty people outside of north america who disagree with you. Don't quote me for my thoughts on your post then bash me for expressing my thoughts? 

 

[Fastfeet2]

38 minutes ago, canta15 said:

Canadians have the right to critique Chinese players when someone brings up the arguement that the Chinese league is better than MLS

If it helps you sleep at night.

[Ruffian]

I originally commented that I thought it was hard to objectively rate MLS or CSL as one better than the other when you said CSL was better. Although if I had to make a decision right now I would choose MLS because of the numbers that @Obinna presented. 

[Fastfeet2]

CSL clubs are only allowed 5 international players I dont get what his numbers are trying to prove. Yes MLS has more International players, but thats because league rules allow it. IMO, the Internationals in CSL make the league arguably better than MLS plain and simple.

[Ruffian]

25 minutes ago, Fastfeet2 said:

CSL clubs are only allowed 5 international players I dont get what his numbers are trying to prove. Yes MLS has more International players, but thats because league rules allow it. IMO, the Internationals in CSL make the league arguably better than MLS plain and simple.

This statement is contradictory. You say that CSL has less international players playing in the World Cup and national teams because they have a limit in the CSL so MLS has more of these good international players but that it is the international players that make CSL better???

[Areathrasher]

11 hours ago, Fastfeet2 said:

Your 4 teams you picked didnt have Carlos Tevez, Axel Witsel, Graziano Pelle, Ramires, Fredy Guarin, Burak Yilmaz, Ezeiquel Lavezzi, Alex Texiera, Nikica Jelavic, Renato Augusto, Hernanes,Stephen M'bia,Papiss Cisse, or Alex Pato thats what i would say. These are champions league quality players, and I feel like MLS lacks champions league quality. MLS internationals play in Gold Cups. China internationals play in the Euros, Copa Americas, Afcons and AFCs

And no, I was comparing the Chinese to Canada so Canadian fans can see they are in no position to insult the quality of another nation ranked higher than them.

Do you actually pay attention to the CSL? 

Some of the choices of players you've used to prove your point over two posts are curious...

Edited May 2, 2017 by Areathrasher

[Guest]

Guys, using @Fastfeet2 logic, Armenia is better than Mexico because they have Mkhitaryan. Even though the rest of the team is shite, they are still better as he is the best player in the tie