Cyle Larin

[shamrock]

Since he was called-up as an NCAA player, it's bullshit to say he wasn't on the radar. 

[El Hombre]

4 hours ago, 1996 said:

The shocking thing about Larin is how he went unoticed by the CSA . Larin was not a member of any Canadian youth national teams, be it U17 or U20, only getting noticed when he had a very good freshman season at Connecticut in the NCAA  and went straight to making appearances with our senior national team .

 

3 hours ago, shamrock said:

Since he was called-up as an NCAA player, it's bullshit to say he wasn't on the radar. 

Exactly.  At 18 years old, he was called into Camp Poutine.  That was then followed up with numerous calls to the U20 program.

In the age of Google, how can people still get this stuff wrong?

[Levi Oakey]

From the Kristian Jack Article: 

“He had a special mentality,” Smyrniotis reflected. “He never looked left or right at others. He wasn’t involved in any of the youth national team setups but never asked why. He was very astute, asked a lot of the right questions in a soft-spoken manner and concentrated on his own ability, working every day to get better.”

He wasn't involved. Sorry guys but 1996 isn't exactly wrong.

[Ivan]

He played for our U20s in WC qualifying.  Hamilton outscored him.  I remember the video of the team sitting around congratulating Larin when he went first overall in the MLS draft. 

[dyslexic nam]

Man we argue about nothing these days.

[Fussball_eh]

Just now, dyslexic nam said:

Man we argue about nothing these days.

What else is new?

[deschamp86]

3 minutes ago, Ivan said:

He played for our U20s in WC qualifying.  Hamilton outscored him.  I remember the video of the team sitting around congratulating Larin when he went first overall in the MLS draft. 

He had already played for the senior team before that. He was already on everyone's radar as he was just about to be drafted 1st overall.

Puzzling to look back and see that Hamilton was starting over him, just a couple months before the start of the MLS season where Larin would win rookie of the year and score 17 goals

[Kent]

Yes, he did play for the U20's, and yes he did get called up to the CMNT as a teenager.

But there is still a problem here. The system is fragmented. He was playing with an Academy, which seems to mean he is unscoutable. When he went to NCAA, that made him scoutable, and he was brought in at that time. He was very likely good enough to be playing U17 national team soccer. I don't know if they had those U15 ID camps back then, but if they did he likely would have been good enough for that too. It's ridiculous. Teams are kept apart for no apparent reason (see the EODSL thread, or the OPDL vs SAAC vs Academy vs OYSL or whatever that thread is called) and then players on the excluded teams aren't able to play for the national teams. They have to wait until they play in L1O or NCAA or MLS in order to make it into the inner circle and be included. We as a nation really get in our own way. Soccer is supposed to unite people but it just gets more and more divided. Whether it's the youth levels (clubs vs academies), developmental level (PDL vs L1O), 2nd division level (NASL vs USL) or the top level (MLS seemingly vs CPL).

It's more maddening to me than the constant losing.

[Ruffian]

What is the main reason that some of these academies do not get scouted by the national program? Do these academies not follow CSA or OSA rules that require some sort of minimum amount of teams? What is the criteria to get included in CSA scouting?

[Havoc88]

19 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

What is the main reason that some of these academies do not get scouted by the national program? Do these academies not follow CSA or OSA rules that require some sort of minimum amount of teams? What is the criteria to get included in CSA scouting?

Honestly, I would say some don't get scouted because of politics. In the early years, and Larin would have been a part of Sigma at this time, there were people at the OSA actively trying to discourage players from going there. I would not be surprised if there is some kind of backhanding (is that an expression?) where to keep them down their players were intentionally overlooked. Fortunately for us, the OSA, CSA etc... need Sigma more than they need them.

Your last question. Also to be honest and it is sad, if our last two U17/20 call ups are any indication, the criteria is you need to be at TFC, VAN or MTL. Not sure if he made the age cut off, but if he did, Simon Triantafillou should have been on that u17 team.

Circling back to Larin though - I'm 99% we never heard of him until he started lighting it up at UCONN. It is highly unlikely that once he committed and began the 2013 season, he all of a sudden was a talent. I don't think it's that outrageous a comment to say he was unnoticed, but I honestly don't care as it seems players who are noticed at a younger age and pegged to be one for the future rarely work out.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Havoc88

[Kent]

@RuffianI am not at all involved with any teams or the OSA, etc, but from what I have read over the years, this is the best I can understand.

Academies popped up, and clubs claimed they shouldn't be OSA sanctioned because they are too expensive.

Academies created SAAC, which had standards set for coaching qualifications, probably amount of practice time, etc.

OSA saw the success of the academies and created OPDL. For OPDL they copied the SAAC standards, and as a result, prices went up to similar levels as academies. The OSA, which is run by clubs, then went against the will of the president (Ron Smale) and the technical advisory committee (which included Jason de Vos and decided OPDL was what was needed) and barred academy teams from being allowed into the OPDL.

After that disastrous vote, Ron Smale said it was a huge mistake and the matter wasn't done yet. Years have passed and I haven't heard anything about a re-vote or any efforts made to allow academies into the loop.

[Ivan]

1 hour ago, deschamp86 said:

He had already played for the senior team before that. He was already on everyone's radar as he was just about to be drafted 1st overall.

Puzzling to look back and see that Hamilton was starting over him, just a couple months before the start of the MLS season where Larin would win rookie of the year and score 17 goals

Hamilton scored goals in the tournament, Larin didn't.

[Bison44]

Just my two cents on what I remember with Larin.  Obrian white had been a star at Uconn, and Allando Matheson was a senior (?) i think in 2013 and it always seemed like UCONN and Syracuse had CDN kids so I kind of followed them.  Larin and Awuah neither had any national u-18 credentials to brag about and I am not even sure they had Larin listed as a forward.    

However Nanco and Halis were on the CDN u-17 team and both were talked about at Syracuse with excitement.  And they were both from Sigma as well.  So I am not sure if blaming Larins lack of exposure as a 18 year old with National team can be blamed on him going to Sigma.  As that season went on Larin got more and more exposure as he was scoring in bunches and then the CMNT came calling.  

[deschamp86]

25 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Hamilton scored goals in the tournament, Larin didn't.

I thought I had remembered Larin getting very little playing time, but going over the game reports it seems he was given his chances during the tournament

[jpg75]

Larin, like a lot of other players was "missed" early on in his youth career because he has an odd year birthyear (95). In 2011 he was 16 yrs old and was passed over at CF because Sadi Jalali of FCE was deemed the better player. In 2013 he was only 18 and got beat out by guys 2 yrs older. It sucks, but until we get consistent U18 camps during U20 years to better integrate those odd year kids it will continue to happen to good players.

[1996]

4 hours ago, Havoc88 said:

Honestly, I would say some don't get scouted because of politics. In the early years, and Larin would have been a part of Sigma at this time, there were people at the OSA actively trying to discourage players from going there. I would not be surprised if there is some kind of backhanding (is that an expression?) where to keep them down their players were intentionally overlooked. Fortunately for us, the OSA, CSA etc... need Sigma more than they need them.

Your last question. Also to be honest and it is sad, if our last two U17/20 call ups are any indication, the criteria is you need to be at TFC, VAN or MTL. Not sure if he made the age cut off, but if he did, Simon Triantafillou should have been on that u17 team.

Circling back to Larin though - I'm 99% we never heard of him until he started lighting it up at UCONN. It is highly unlikely that once he committed and began the 2013 season, he all of a sudden was a talent. I don't think it's that outrageous a comment to say he was unnoticed, but I honestly don't care as it seems players who are noticed at a younger age and pegged to be one for the future rarely work out.

This , totally agree!

[1996]

4 hours ago, Kent said:

Yes, he did play for the U20's, and yes he did get called up to the CMNT as a teenager.

But there is still a problem here. The system is fragmented. He was playing with an Academy, which seems to mean he is unscoutable. When he went to NCAA, that made him scoutable, and he was brought in at that time. He was very likely good enough to be playing U17 national team soccer. I don't know if they had those U15 ID camps back then, but if they did he likely would have been good enough for that too. It's ridiculous. Teams are kept apart for no apparent reason (see the EODSL thread, or the OPDL vs SAAC vs Academy vs OYSL or whatever that thread is called) and then players on the excluded teams aren't able to play for the national teams. They have to wait until they play in L1O or NCAA or MLS in order to make it into the inner circle and be included. We as a nation really get in our own way. Soccer is supposed to unite people but it just gets more and more divided. Whether it's the youth levels (clubs vs academies), developmental level (PDL vs L1O), 2nd division level (NASL vs USL) or the top level (MLS seemingly vs CPL).

It's more maddening to me than the constant losing.

And also this!

[shermanator]

Sadi Jalali. Man, what a waste of talent.

[Kent]

4 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Just my two cents on what I remember with Larin.  Obrian white had been a star at Uconn, and Allando Matheson was a senior (?) i think in 2013 and it always seemed like UCONN and Syracuse had CDN kids so I kind of followed them.  Larin and Awuah neither had any national u-18 credentials to brag about and I am not even sure they had Larin listed as a forward.    

However Nanco and Halis were on the CDN u-17 team and both were talked about at Syracuse with excitement.  And they were both from Sigma as well.  So I am not sure if blaming Larins lack of exposure as a 18 year old with National team can be blamed on him going to Sigma.  As that season went on Larin got more and more exposure as he was scoring in bunches and then the CMNT came calling.  

I didn't remember them playing U17. That's slightly encouraging that playing for an academy isn't a deal breaker, but I still think we would benefit from more unity. It would make scouting easier and more accurate. It would also help having the best play against the best week in, week out.

[gator]

Larin looked like he was playing for Canada last night with those 2 bad misses!

[dyslexic nam]

7 minutes ago, gator said:

Larin looked like he was playing for Canada last night with those 2 bad misses!

Yeah, that was an unfortunate time to have that kind of game.  Nice knock down for Kaka, but I don't know how he let the keeper get to that ball first when all he had to do was put his foot through it.  The second wasn't quite as bad, but not a great way to live up to the pre-game hype.

[gator]

I was standing 3 rows back behind the goal, the misses didn't look good, in fairness to him I think he was playing hurt after taking a bad knock in the 1st half, he was hobbling even in the 2nd half!

[dyslexic nam]

Maybe, but holy shit - one lunge and that goalmouth ball is buried. 

 

Would have been a fun one to attend - wish I could be there have been there

[Ruffian]

3 minutes ago, gator said:

I was standing 3 rows back behind the goal, the misses didn't look good, in fairness to him I think he was playing hurt after taking a bad knock in the 1st half, he was hobbling even in the 2nd half!

He seems to hobble a lot or go down on a play only to appear on the back post for a goal. Seems to be part of his playing style. Disappear a bit to attract less attention only to show up and score.

[BrennanFan]

This was a big game for him, back at home in front of family and friends, more media and more pressure than the usual game, and he failed to deliver against a TFC defence and keeper that isnt amazing.  Too bad.