Cyle Larin

[jpg75]

36 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I would say that is an exceptional strike rate. 

For some perspective, here is a list of some concacaf strikers at that level:

Chicharito.

 

Check the top scorers list for countries like Honduras, that's what i would hope Larin produces.

[hamiltonfan]

49 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Check the top scorers list for countries like Honduras, that's what i would hope Larin produces.

Would love to see this along with C.Rica, USA, Mexico, TnT...

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

Check the top scorers list for countries like Honduras, that's what i would hope Larin produces.

The best strike rate of an active Honduran NT player is Lozano with 7 goals in 23 caps. 

Pavon is the all time leader in goals with 57 in 100-something caps. 

Again, the chances of Larin (or anyone) scoring that many goals for Canada is very slim to say the least, so I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you, unless something changed and Canada became an offensive team. 

Look at these all time goal scorers :

USA - Donovan - 57

Mexico - Chicharito - 46

Panama - Tejeda - 43

Costa Rica - Fonseca - 47

T & T - Stern - 70

-----------------------------------------

Canada - DeRosario - 22

New Zealand - Coveny - 28

Wales - Rush - 28

Scotland - Dalglish - 30

Northern Ireland - Healy - 36

 

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Obinna

[Guest]

3 hours ago, jpg75 said:

5 goals in 19 games is nothing to write home about. A good strike rate is 1 goal every 2 games.

Well with Floro as coach, you'd be dreaming to think Larin could put up those numbers

[jpg75]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Pavon is the all time leader in goals with 57 in 100-something caps. 

Again, the chances of Larin (or anyone) scoring that many goals for Canada is very slim to say the least, so I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you, unless something changed and Canada became an offensive team. 

Look at these all time goal scorers :

USA - Donovan - 57

Mexico - Chicharito - 46

Panama - Tejeda - 43

Costa Rica - Fonseca - 47

T & T - Stern - 70

I look at a guy like Blas Perez, 41 goals in 109 games. Basically a Colombian Primera/MLS career striker, why can't Larin have a similar career if we're going to open up our style? Carlo Costly 32 in 75, Jerry Bengston 21 in 54. Clint Dempsey 56 in 132.

[Vince193]

16 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

I look at a guy like Blas Perez, 41 goals in 109 games. Basically a Colombian Primera/MLS career striker, why can't Larin have a similar career if we're going to open up our style? Carlo Costly 32 in 75, Jerry Bengston 21 in 54. Clint Dempsey 56 in 132.

Most of those countries play a hell of a lot more games than we do. With the CONCACAF nations league that could change though.

[Keegan]

You need to put into perspective the fact that Larin is still a relatively new striker on the international scene.  Heading into the 2015 Gold Cup he was just finding his feet at the pro level and was asked to be a lone striker for a team that had little to no support up top.  

Just 2 years on with the addition of guys like Hoilett and Arfield plus the young up and comers I think it's time we start trying to open up a bit more and then it's on Larin to put the ball in the net (if we do so).  Also, anyone can see that Larin has become a monster physically over the past 2 years and especially this season, watching him man handle Jermaine Jones for a game winner in injury time gives me a ton of hope.. you're not going to face guys much stronger than him in this region.  

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

Oh goody, we are having the "what is a good strike rate for an international striker" debate again! So here are some numbers from England, again. My experience is that the lower the level (MLS <<< EPL), the higher the goals per game for the best strikers. (You can check out the "Evostik Southern League" this season for comparison -- quite a few strikers on much higher than 0.5 goals per game). Without further ado, here is what I said last time:

For comparison, here are the numbers from the top scoring "relatively modern era" England strikers and midfielders:

Rooney 53/116 = 0.46
Lineker 48/80 = 0.60
Owen 40/89 = 0.45
Shearer 30/63 = 0.48
Lampard 29/106 = 0.27 (M)
Platt 27/62 = 0.44 (M)
Crouch 22/42 = 0.52
Keegan 21/63 = 0.33
Defoe 19/55 = 0.35
Welbeck 14/34 = 0.41
Chivers 13/24 = 0.5

Source: http://www.englandfootballonline.com/teamgoals/Goals_10-49.html

(Larin 5/19 = 0.26 )

As far as I am concerned, anything less than 0.33 is simply not good enough for an out and out striker. 0.26 is the kind of number I'd expect from an attacking midfielder like Frank Lampard in the list above.

The problem with that list is that it is all England strikers. The strikers are playing for a team with good attacking support. Canada does not have that support, so it is not realistic to expect 0.48 or 0.45. 

0.33 is a reasonable expectation though, so I do agree with that. 0.26 is not far off that mark, so I think Cyle is on the right track.

[Aird25]

Weren't a bunch of Larin's NT appearances from when he was a college player?

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

I look at a guy like Blas Perez, 41 goals in 109 games. Basically a Colombian Primera/MLS career striker, why can't Larin have a similar career if we're going to open up our style? Carlo Costly 32 in 75, Jerry Bengston 21 in 54. Clint Dempsey 56 in 132.

Perez is at 0.36 and Larin is at 0.26 and he's been wasteful depending on who you ask, so yeah I think he can reach that standard when it's all said and done.

I think Vince brings up a good point regarding the lack of games we play. I don't think he'll ever reach 50 goals but he'll break dero's record of 22. That is my base expectation for him and it's a reasonable one. Scoring 46 in 90 matches like Chicharito isn't, but I would love for him to make me eat crow on that.

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Weren't a bunch of Larin's NT appearances from when he was a college player?

I think 5ish so a quarter of his CMNT games, roughly.

[DannyFromToronto23]

9 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Weren't a bunch of Larin's NT appearances from when he was a college player?

No he only played vs Colombia in his last year at UCONN at he came on for the last 10 minutes 

[Bison44]

Didnt he also play in the Moldova and Bulgaria games in 2014. I am pretty sure he had 3 caps before he was drafted in Jan 2015.   I guess if you want to get into semantics, depending on when he stopped going to classes at UCONN, maybe he wasnt a college player then, but it was before Orlando.  

[BradMack]

It's pretty clear watching us play the past few years that no matter who we'd have put up front we were going to struggle. Our forward was always left alone up top and had little support. He may have missed his one chance, or half chance a game against some teams but he was depended on a bit too much in my opinion. The Gold Cup miss was a bad one, yes, but his other misses he did well just to create the chance most of the time. I think he's added more to his game since then, and the team around him is also improving. To me though, our new coach will be the biggest factor. If Zambrano isn't scared to let put our attacking guys out there and help out Hoilett and Larin, we'll be able to score goals. Floro stuck Hoilett on the wing to create and Larin to finish and then a couple D mids and 6 defenders out there most of the time. Theres no reason with guys like Hoilett, Larin, Aird, Arfield, and possibly Davies and Tabla that we cant go out and be a threat. Before teams would just bully us because they only really had to watch Larin. If you look at our player pool our problem should be keeping goals out of our net, not scoring them. 

[Obinna]

44 minutes ago, BradMack said:

It's pretty clear watching us play the past few years that no matter who we'd have put up front we were going to struggle. Our forward was always left alone up top and had little support.

[shamrock]

46 minutes ago, Obinna said:

1 hour ago, BradMack said:

It's pretty clear watching us play the past few years that no matter who we'd have put up front we were going to struggle. Our forward was always left alone up top and had little support.

THIS. The only thing I don't agree with is that Floro didn't put out the more attacking players. There weren't any really. Let's hope we can get the Tabla's and Davies out this time. 

[jpg75]

11 hours ago, Vince193 said:

Most of those countries play a hell of a lot more games than we do. With the CONCACAF nations league that could change though.

Yeah but i'm looking at rate, not total goals. But at Larin's age there's no stopping him from playing 80+ times for us.

[kohanz]

1. Larin's strike rate could definitely use improvement and I believe that it will improve (can't get much worse, given his ability)

2. Comparing him to England strikers is a strange one. We're talking about good strikers on a very good (but not elite) European team playing mostly on a different continent with a different style of play, different quality of pitches, different refereeing, etc. I think the comparison to other CONCACAF strikers is much more apt.

[Obinna]

56 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

My point was that a strike rate of .33 to .50 is what good strikers achieve. Although I backed up that point with numbers from England, because that is the other country I follow, I think you will find it pretty consistent across the world of top flight football. As the standard of play decreases, the strike rate of good strikers tends to increase.

Incidentally, England are well known for being a DEFENSIVE team, not an attacking one.

This is where I disagree. 

What is "good" for an English striker is "exceptional" for a Canadian striker, because he is playing for Canada. There is a reason why our record goal scorer has only netted 22 goals. 

[baulderdash77]

15 hours ago, Aird25 said:

Weren't a bunch of Larin's NT appearances from when he was a college player?

Yes they were.  Also to be fair to Larin he's not playing a full 90 very often.

He's played 1,085 minutes for the Senior National team and scored 5 times.  That's a strike rate of 0.415.  Pretty excellent considering a good chunk of those minutes was when he was a U20 player.

[jpg75]

^ Did you subtract the goal scored off his ass? I mean, if we're cherry picking stats to suit a narrative then it works both ways.

[baulderdash77]

There's no cherry picking.  Strike rates are normally goals per 90.  He has played 1,085 mins for the national team and scored 5 (Including the cheeky one).

Bottom line is his strike rate is very good.

[Obinna]

45 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

There's no cherry picking.  Strike rates are normally goals per 90.  He has played 1,085 mins for the national team and scored 5 (Including the cheeky one).

Bottom line is his strike rate is very good for a Canadian striker.

Fixed your post.

[shermanator]

Goals per 90 is about the least cherry picked stat in discussing a strike rate. How many goals has a player scored in their career, and how many minutes did they play; translate that to a goals per 90 minutes.

As a comparison, Ricketts has 15 goals in 3465 minutes, which is a goals per 90 of .39.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Incidentally, England are well known for being a DEFENSIVE team, not an attacking one.

1

Hate to start another argument but no they aren't. England have been known for their mediocre defenses.