Cyle Larin

[dyslexic nam]

God I hope he can translate his MLS success into putting up strong CMNT numbers.  He clearly has the skill.  MLS consistency proves that.  We just need to find a way to leverage that skill into improved offensive performance within our team.  Not to overstate his importance, but we need to make sure we have a system that maximizes Larin's production.   

[Obinna]

5 hours ago, shamrock said:

True, but my point was that Larin is more talented than Hutch. Atiba has had a great career, i think he has grown continuously and pushed it to the max. However Larin's starting point is a lot higher, so I hope his ceiling is too. 

I disagree that Larin is a more talented player than Hutch. 

Larin is extremely talented in one specific area: finishing. Does that make him a more talented player? I would say no. 

Hutchinson can pass the ball better, can control the ball better, has better feet, has more endurance (seemingly), can play with both feet.

Larin is clearly a better shooter and can shoot with both feet. Larin is better in the air offensively, but that's a finishing thing. Defensively I don't think he's any better in the air than Hutchinson. Larin has much better movement in the box, but that's a position specific skill, because Hutchinson has better movement as a midfielder, clearly.

Anyway, I think Hutchinson is an all-around better player, who can do many things decently, while Larin is extremely gifted in finishing, but has some glaring holes in his game, specifically his hold up play and passing. 

If he can clean up those skills and become a more rounded player I will be happy to say he's more talented.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Obinna

[matty]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

....If he can clean up those skills and become a more rounded player I will be happy to say he's more talented.

What if he just moves to a big European club (in a big 4 league) continues scoring in the double digits and wins a bunch of cups and league titles but doesn't improve the areas of his games you mentioned? Would be super effective at that level trump the need to improve his passing?

Edited April 24, 2017 by matty

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, matty said:

What if he just moves to a big European club (in a big 4 league) continues scoring in the double digits and wins a bunch of cups and league titles but doesn't improve the areas of his games you mentioned? Would be super effective at that level trump the need to improve his passing?

I can't see him scoring in double digits and winning a bunch of cups and league titles without improving in those areas. The good news is that he's getting better every year, I think. That is why I want him to stay in MLS for a little longer before moving on. 

[Bison44]

Its a nice argument to have but does it matter??  He is the best finisher/scorer we have seen come down the pipe since.....Bunbury...anyone???  I dont really care if my striker cant pass as well as my midfielder.  He needs to get open in the box, find space for a shot, shoot quickly and accurately and hopefully be a beast in the air.  All of this he does in spades.  We have had other good midfielders recently, but its been a while since we had a guy that can do the hardest thing in the game, put the ball in the net like he can. NAM is exactly right, we need to start setting up the team to get the most out of his finishing talents.

 

 

[matty]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

I can't see him scoring in double digits and winning a bunch of cups and league titles without improving in those areas. The good news is that he's getting better every year, I think. That is why I want him to stay in MLS for a little longer before moving on. 

Same. I want him to finish the year out here 

[gator]

6 minutes ago, matty said:

Same. I want him to finish the year out here 

I just want him to stay until at least a week from Wednesday when I will go to watch him (and Johnson) play at BMO Field!

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I can't see him scoring in double digits and winning a bunch of cups and league titles without improving in those areas. The good news is that he's getting better every year, I think. That is why I want him to stay in MLS for a little longer before moving on. 

I agree with this. I also think Kries is probably a good coach for him to have. Seems like he is still learning at Orlando, so I hope he doesn't leave too prematurely.

[rob.notenboom]

Wow did he physically dominate the defender on him on his second goal last weekend. Love it. 

[BearcatSA]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

Larin is clearly a better shooter and can shoot with both feet.

From what I've seen of him, I have felt he was reluctant to use his left foot when it was the better option, opting to go with the outside of his right boot with a strike, especially coming down the left side.

However, he really anticipates and goes to the net well and uses his size and athleticism to good effect when finishing.  His second goal yesterday from the cross was a complete mismatch for the guy marking him.

He's a quality finisher in MLS but does that translate into the same results at a higher level?  Here's hoping that it does.

[Obinna]

6 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

From what I've seen of him, I have felt he was reluctant to use his left foot when it was the better option, opting to go with the outside of his right boot with a strike, especially coming down the left side.

Yeah I have seen that too, but I have also seen him strike a ball first-time into the goal with his left foot, and the ball was moving across his body AND he hit it while in stride. That is hard to do even on your good foot (at least it is for me ).

Edited April 25, 2017 by Obinna

[lazlo_80]

he's really, really good you guys.

whether or not he's more talented than Hutch, I'm not touching that one. But He's the best pure target striker in MLS right now and thats not Canadian bias thats a popular opinion, on the MLS reddit he's a popular pick for quarter of the season MVP. His physical conditioning this year has brought him to a whole new level. Last week it was Jermaine Jones, this week it's some guy on NYCFC that he straight up made look like a child.

if he finishes the season the way he started it, he's done just about all he can in this league and probably needs to move on to somewhere that will challenge him more.

[shorty]

Really really hoping that Zambrano builds a structure and system and a player selection around Larin that feeds him as well as they have in Orlando, as opposed to a defensive 4-1-4-1 that hangs him out to dry.  He needs excellent crosses or a strike partner or both to do his best work.

[BearcatSA]

4 hours ago, shorty said:

Really really hoping that Zambrano builds a structure and system and a player selection around Larin that feeds him as well as they have in Orlando, as opposed to a defensive 4-1-4-1 that hangs him out to dry.  He needs excellent crosses or a strike partner or both to do his best work.

Regardless of system, we don't have the bona fide creators needed to supply him with the kind of chances he may be provided with at club level.  Come this Gold Cup, he needs to show that he can finish the far fewer opportunities he will be afforded against Hex opposition (CR/Honduras).  And if he is profligate, then he has to show mental toughness and keep his head in the game.  That's one possible reason why he didn't start for the final match of the group stage two years ago. 

[PopePouri]

2 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Regardless of system, we don't have the bona fide creators needed to supply him with the kind of chances he may be provided with at club level.  Come this Gold Cup, he needs to show that he can finish the far fewer opportunities he will be afforded against Hex opposition (CR/Honduras).  And if he is profligate, then he has to show mental toughness and keep his head in the game.  That's one possible reason why he didn't start for the final match of the group stage two years ago. 

Orlando's creators aren't really "creative". Rivas is a direct north/south player and Barnes is a second forward.

Creativity through the middle doesn't really matter for Larin anyways. About 90% of his goals come from wide areas where he can beat his man with a near post run or just overpower the defender. He needs smart overloads and good balls in the box (something Floro didn't care about). A combination of Davies, Aird and De Jong should be able to provide that.

Edited April 25, 2017 by PopePouri

[lazlo_80]

52 minutes ago, PopePouri said:

Orlando's creators aren't really "creative". Rivas is a direct north/south player and Barnes is a second forward.

Creativity through the middle doesn't really matter for Larin anyways. About 90% of them come from wide areas where he can beat his man with a near post run or just overpower the defender. He needs smart overloads and good balls in the box (something Floro didn't care about). A combination of Davies, Aird and De Jong should be able to provide that.

just to strengthen your point,  arfield and Hoilett are just as good at providing as what you see out of barnes and rivas. 

 

@BearcatSA I think part of what you may be reacting to is Floro's system as well, which essentially left him out on an island. A change of formation and tactics could easily free up Larin to play his best type of position.

[BearcatSA]

^I don't share the optimism here that a formation or system change is the tonic needed for creating more service for Larin. With the overall personnel available, I still think that this will be a defensively inclined side (especially with the question marks in the centre of d), so I'm not seeing a whole lot of different stuff coming out of the tactical approach.

However, I'll gladly eat crow of Zambrano proves me wrong.

 

[shermanator]

BOOM!

Also, regarding his contract and paltry level of pay:

 

Edited April 26, 2017 by shermanator

[Shway]

7 minutes ago, shermanator said:

BOOM!

Seriously we gotta draw the line on what can be posted as news. Sooner or later, everyone will have sources. 

[nolando]

21 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

^I don't share the optimism here that a formation or system change is the tonic needed for creating more service for Larin. With the overall personnel available, I still think that this will be a defensively inclined side (especially with the question marks in the centre of d), so I'm not seeing a whole lot of different stuff coming out of the tactical approach.

However, I'll gladly eat crow of Zambrano proves me wrong.

 

This is gradually shaping up to be a Rob Friend Pt. 2 in the sense of a very successful striker at club level expected to recreate the same form under a vastly different set of circumstances with the national team.

[Bison44]

In the highlights of last game I was sure I saw Karl-Heinz Rumminigge, although it may have been a hot dog vendor. Sooo...BOOM!! Larin is off to Germany.  

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, nolando said:

This is gradually shaping up to be a Rob Friend Pt. 2 in the sense of a very successful striker at club level expected to recreate the same form under a vastly different set of circumstances with the national team.

To me, it's one thing to not get service/chances but it's another if he Hurtados away any chances.  We'll see how he does come the Gold Cup.

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, nolando said:

This is gradually shaping up to be a Rob Friend Pt. 2 in the sense of a very successful striker at club level expected to recreate the same form under a vastly different set of circumstances with the national team.

I believe he's already doubled Friend's NT goal total. lol

You know, I think we collectively need to take a step back and put things into perspective. Cyle has 5 goals in 19 games for Canada. Those are very respectable numbers for an international striker, and even more impressive for a Canadian who is only 22 years old!

Let's keep in mind that goals are often a team effort. We have never had an offensively gifted team, so to expect ANY of our strikers to score a goal every 2 games (which is roughly his orlando rate) is not realistic at this time.

If Davies and Tabla turn out to be real offensive dynamos at the international level, surrounded by other dangerous (if not inconsistent) pieces such as Hoilett and Aird, then perhaps we'll see Larin's production increase in Canadian colours. 

Changing formation can only yield so much if the attacking talent is not there.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Obinna

[jpg75]

5 goals in 19 games is nothing to write home about. A good strike rate is 1 goal every 2 games.

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

5 goals in 19 games is nothing to write home about. A good strike rate is 1 goal every 2 games.

I would say that is an exceptional strike rate. 

For some perspective, here is a list of some concacaf strikers at that level:

Chicharito.

 

Edited April 26, 2017 by Obinna