Canadian Premier League

[Macksam]

10 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

It's not just recent immigrant communities interested, it's the 25 and under crowd that grew up watching TFC as the new and shiny sport.

I grew up in small town Ontario, and everyone played hockey and soccer exclusively. When TFC kicked off when I was a highschooler, it was a huge deal, and everyone became instant fans. It was a sport that we understood and could appreciate tactically like we enjoyed hockey, instead of a simple spectacle like basketball/baseball/football. That demographic, the one who fell for north american soccer as kids, is just now coming into money and starting to become relevant in the market, and could be a big boon for any Ontario team.

It's obviously not reproducible everywhere, I'm not sure how many people in rural Saskatchewan would have had a similar story, but it irks me when it is assumed that recent immigrants are the only people who can drive attendance at soccer games. If that was true, Chivas USA would have driven LA Galaxy out of business instead of the other way around

QFT

There are a lot more people that follow this sport than just recent immigrants and the children of recent immigrants.

 

[reme90]

2 hours ago, matty said:

Then why do Canada and the US dominate hockey and why does the US control the basketball game? Everyone else has pro/rel in those sports but rarely comes close to the nations where the NHL and NBA have monopolies.

The minor leagues are needed yes but pro/rel could actually KILL THIS LEAGUE

This is a fair question, I'll answer Hockey as its more relevant to us. Why do we excel in Hockey if the development model is flawed? Simple numbers actually, Canada has 40% of all registered hockey players, the USA accounts for another 30%. That leaves just 30% for all the other countries.

How do you fear Pro/Rel would kill the league? I often hear 3 objections
1) It would scare investors away
2) We don't have the clubs/ markets/ money to support lower leagues?

3) Fan support would drop due to relegation and kill the clubs.  

Answer 1) It's easy to institute rules to protect our initial investors from relegation, while encouraging new investors to start on the pathway to promotion in the Premier League. Once the league is financially stable, lower leagues are operating (at least a decade into the future) relegation can come into play. 

Answer 2) I go back to what happened in Orlando and Sacramento. As soon as it became clear "Promotion" into Division 1 soccer was possible an influx of qualified investors stepped up, money was invested, city governments cooperated, facilities were bought and built and BOY the fan response was phenomenal AND this was all in a CLOSED system. 

Imagine how many more would step up in an open system with a clear and defined pathway into Division 1 CanPL. 

Answer3) The big boogeyman - Relegation. First relegation would not be a reality for literally over a decade or more. Thats more than enough time for the initial investors to have had protection. Secondly any relegated club is not permanently shut out of division 1 soccer. Where as in a franchise model, only the very rich can enter. 

[AnOutsider]

Canada got its own Tinfoil Ted... I think.

[reme90]

2 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

Guys reme90  is just trolling us here re pro/reg.  He can't answer the question of which market is going to force reg after the CanPL hits 24 teams and where this mythical 25th team goes after it gets relegated..  Don't take the bait anymore and quit feeding the troll.

Basically you are asking? Where and who will support enough clubs to warrant Pro/Rel? Fair Question:

1) Current Youth clubs that have the ambition to provide a pathway for their players into Pro
2) USL/ PDL / CPL/ L1 / PQSL etc  teams looking for a meaningful league and Division 1 soccer
3) USA markets that WILL never be accepted into MLS first division (Cincinnati FC), (Detroit FC), etc
4) New investors that are enticed with building a brand slowly but with an open door to earning Division 1 status.

Practically speaking: Relegation will not occur FOR A VERY LONG TIME (10+ yrs). However, Promotion can occur quite quickly.   

Spain has smaller regional leagues with smaller clubs, (think OHL) that earn promotion eventually into the first division.This is what I imagine our country could support. Due to its size and lack of major urban centres, smaller regional leagues would allow small clubs to develop a fanbase, attract sponsors, develop an identity and a culture and work with municipal, provincial and even federal governments for infrastructure, facilities, etc.  Smaller regional leagues would be our 2nd division.

This is financially ideal and a very NON-risky way for new investors to test the waters into pro soccer with new smaller markets without needing to take on millions in losses. Regional leagues are feasible for small clubs, as travel costs would be reduced, facilities can be shared and even player salaries would be quite modest.  

This type of model also INVITES our current youth clubs to entertain the idea of having a pro team. This is what the Calgary Foothills club did, they have ambition. There are other big clubs in Ontario as well that could have a team, or even amalgamate with other big clubs to share the financial burden. The main benefit to the club is that it shifts the focus from recreational house league soccer registration as its main source of income to a Pro soccer club business model where player development is essential. This also allows them to provide a clear pathway for their players to play pro. 

USL teams could also play in these regional leagues and earn promotion into the CanPL. This is a win win for MLS, as their reserve squads would be playing in a Division 1 league without interfering with their MLS squads

One big incentive is to be the FIRST club into a market. Suddenly cities like London, KW, Halifax, Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, etc have big motivation to establish themselves as the City's true Club. This open system would allow and invite any other investor to start another club within the same city and build a counter-cultural club like we see all over the world. 

Most people here think you need a Toronto to have a club. This is simply not the case. Small towns/cities with small stadiums, with small budgets compete with the big boys. Like Eibar or even newly promoted Alaves which tied Athletico Madrid and beat Barcelona today. How do they do it? Their salaries are small, their focus on player development is huge, their spending is wise and their supporters are faithful, because the CLUB is THEIR club. It's not like London driving 2 hours to go see TFC, instead London can support their local club as it faces the Giant TFC in the voyageurs cup. 

Also, dont call me a troll man. We might disagree, but we all love this country and love the sport and want it to succeed. Thanks for reading

[matty]

1 hour ago, reme90 said:

This is a fair question, I'll answer Hockey as its more relevant to us. Why do we excel in Hockey if the development model is flawed? Simple numbers actually, Canada has 40% of all registered hockey players, the USA accounts for another 30%. That leaves just 30% for all the other countries.
2) We don't have the clubs/ markets/ money to support lower leagues?

Answer 2) I go back to what happened in Orlando and Sacramento. As soon as it became clear "Promotion" into Division 1 soccer was possible an influx of qualified investors stepped up, money was invested, city governments cooperated, facilities were bought and built and BOY the fan response was phenomenal AND this was all in a CLOSED system. 

Imagine how many more would step up in an open system with a clear and defined pathway into Division 1 CanPL. 

Hockey is a sport with several elite nations: Canada, US, Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic. The most dominant (Canada) does not have a league system with a pro/rel model, close runner-up (Russia) got rid of the system and modern day and possible future megapower (US) shares the same system as the current megapower. The 3 other rarely rise above these 3 despite having an open system and competitive leagues which I'll add might die because of one of the megapowers leagues (KHL) which is already active in two nations.

Does Canada have enough markets like Orlando and Sacramento? No, not even close. After the league expands to say 10 or even 12 teams the bulk of the population is covered. We don't have enough mid-size markets for investors to really care about beyond a regional level and investors will be turned off at the idea of investing in a 100-200k sized market (hell Regina has less than 200k) that runs the risk of losing their national TV deal after a in a top flight.

If you did start having teams, from say Thunder Bay, winning promotion with a team of young local guys who go from making semi-pro money to making pro money and you're unable to find a decent sponsor because you're city is so small and you might not have national TV for more than a year, it will likely kill you long term. Now add on your travel costs to change from provincial to nation.

I'd rather see the Thunder Bay team compete year in and out in League 1 Ontario than risk losing everything because they get relegated and have to cut a third of their players to be able to afford to remain active.

[baulderdash77]

5 hours ago, reme90 said:

Also, dont call me a troll man. We might disagree, but we all love this country and love the sport and want it to succeed. Thanks for reading

Your right sorry for calling you a troll.  I'll keep it on the up and up.

The problem is math and money for your argument.  The CPL is supposed to be fully professional, not semi pro or amateurs .  So that means paying a team player payroll of at least 1.5 million.  When you add in a bare bones overhead cost to produce a pro team, you can't do it for less than 3 million per year.  This isn't Europe, this is a big country and travel costs are high.

There isn't 24 places in Canada that can generate 3+ million dollars in soccer revenue per year.  This isnt La Liga where each team is going to receive 40 million Euros in TV money automatically or the EPL where each team gets 38 million GBP.  Ours will be a gate driven league which means you need 7,500 to 10,000 attendance.

There's 19 stadiums over 7,500 in Canada including 3 in Toronto and 3 in Montreal and that includes Moncton, Guelph and Kingston which each have 100-120k populations.  So anything over say 12 or 14 teams in total is a pipe dream.  We'l never get to a full table so we won't need relegation.  Asking a semi pro team to step up from a 300k  club budget to 3 million would literally kill them.

That's why your argument, although impassioned, is not mathematically  realistic and not taken seriously.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

17 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

...but it irks me when it is assumed that recent immigrants are the only people who can drive attendance at soccer games. If that was true, Chivas USA would have driven LA Galaxy out of business instead of the other way around

How do you think Club America fans living in LA responded to that name? Chivas USA wasn't even a sensible strategy for attracting most Mexican-American fans and had no obvious added appeal for most non-Mexicans relative to the Galaxy, so I don't follow your logic. Also worth noting that at no point did I state that only recent immigrants supported TFC in 2007 to the exclusion of everybody else, my point was that they were the key demographic that drove the franchise's unexpected level of success in attracting fans. There were a lot of hardcore soccer fans already out there in the GTA waiting for a pro team that operated at a level that was worth following and Beckham's entry to MLS provided the league with extra credibility in their eyes at just the right time in a Toronto context. I'm not sure that the latent fan base for pro soccer is out there in Winnipeg and Calgary to anything like the same extent, so budgets that require 7500 paid at the low end to break even look extremely ambitious to me, which makes me wonder if the would be investors really understand the realities of Canadian soccer and fully understand just how big a juggernaut they would be up against in the shape of MLS.

[canucklefan]

On 9/9/2016 at 2:23 PM, Dub Narcotic said:

I wish the CSA didn't care about Canada the way the USSF doesn't care. The USSF has given us a competitive and sustainable divisions one to four, PDL and NCAA for U-23 development and a credible academy system for U-18 to U-13 as well as supporting the most successful and stable club teams this country has ever seen. The CSA has given us Benito Floro, L10, PLSQ, a corrupt Traffic partnership and looking the other way on the CSL.

This is seems to be one of the must hypocrite posts in the CPL thread. Usually I don't even care to look at Canadians in PDL and NCAA because there's a low probability they will make it to the MLS or a higher level elsewhere in the world. Also, the poster chose to ignore a key factor in his arguments. All those divisions from U13 to U23 are useless to Canadians if MLS rules make it hard for them to become professionals at that level. If MLS change its rules regarding the Canadian statuts on US MLS teams, I will change mind but as things stand now, USSF and MLS aren't the best solution to our problems.

[Futballer]

love the passion you are all displaying as i know their are millions of Canadians that feel that same passion too for a Canadian Premier League and i will go on record again and state the only Hold up to realizing fans and investors for the CPL is our Governing Body.

The Canadian Soccer Association have seen the Business Plan so all that is needed is for the CSA to Give the ok to Sanction the CPL as our Canadian National Soccer League.

Other investors will then step up and purchase their franchise rights as there is nothing stopping the CPL Train from been the most successful League Project from the onset. 

There are many brilliant businessmen and Women in Canada and they all know and says it take the CSA to give that final Ok for the CPL to Launch.

[baulderdash77]

Futballer (Caretaker?) you seem to have a much tighter grasp of the status than the small tidbits that come out.  How many initial teams are you aware of and where?

[Ansem]

For those saying that there are too many teams in southern Ontario when talking about potential future expansions like London, KW, Kingston, Oshawa and Windsor,

Let's remember that Southern Ontario has 1/3 of Canada's population and the Quebec-Windsor corridor over half.

We're programmed to think like major inter US-Canada sports league. We aren't in this case.

This league is for Canada only and we need to avoid having the scope of US league. Canadian scope means you can't pass on places like London and Kitchener-Waterloo and Windsor. 

[C2SKI]

For me, it's worrisome that we've even gotten this far without any fan consultation. This league shouldn't be an agreement between a few rich businessmen. It should be propelled by the aspirations of soccer loving folk across the country.

[rob.notenboom]

1 hour ago, Futballer said:

love the passion you are all displaying as i know their are millions of Canadians that feel that same passion too for a Canadian Premier League and i will go on record again and state the only Hold up to realizing fans and investors for the CPL is our Governing Body.

The Canadian Soccer Association have seen the Business Plan so all that is needed is for the CSA to Give the ok to Sanction the CPL as our Canadian National Soccer League.

Other investors will then step up and purchase their franchise rights as there is nothing stopping the CPL Train from been the most successful League Project from the onset. 

There are many brilliant businessmen and Women in Canada and they all know and says it take the CSA to give that final Ok for the CPL to Launch.

So if what I've deduced is correct, the business plan was presented at a CSA board of directors meeting during the previous week in Vancouver. I'm not sure if I've got it right, but are they not meeting again this week?

[matty]

23 minutes ago, Ansem said:

For those saying that there are too many teams in southern Ontario when talking about potential future expansions like London, KW, Kingston, Oshawa and Windsor,

Let's remember that Southern Ontario has 1/3 of Canada's population and the Quebec-Windsor corridor over half.

We're programmed to think like major inter US-Canada sports league. We aren't in this case.

This league is for Canada only and we need to avoid having the scope of US league. Canadian scope means you can't pass on places like London and Kitchener-Waterloo and Windsor. 

I'm gonna say look at the CFL (aka Canada's pro sports league). Why haven't they expanded to K-W or London?

[Ansem]

5 minutes ago, matty said:

I'm gonna say look at the CFL (aka Canada's pro sports league). Why haven't they expanded to K-W or London?

CFL isnt a huge draw in southern Ontario. Most are NFL fans already and view CFL as 2nd rated football. 

Soccer however is an untapped market.

I remember CFL looking at Quebec city and the mayor said he had no interest in the CFL. He also add he'd prefer a soccer team in the city, and Quebec City has a HUGE football tradition in university league

[Joe MacCarthy]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

CFL isnt a huge draw in Toronto.

FYP

[matty]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

CFL isnt a huge draw in southern Ontario. Most are NFL fans already and view CFL as 2nd rated football. 

Soccer however is an untapped market.

The CFL is a pretty good draw in Hamilton, more than 24,000 people have attended each game this year in Hamilton. If you think the CFL wouldn't work in KW because it's viewed as second rate to the NFL then how do you think the CPL would succeed since the "real top flight" is already operating in Southern Ontario?

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

15 hours ago, reme90 said:

In a recent game between RSL V SEA the TV rating was 53k ... not in the region but the entire country. That's even including 6,000 on Univision. 2 flagship franchises and it broke a record for the lowest EVER rating on Fox Sports... this was during August, MLS' strongest month.

Meanwhile clubs like Cincinnati FC who average greater attendance than some MLS franchises will languish in obscurity and will eventually die out. Because MINOR leagues suck. Which is what the CANPL will be to MLS if it copies it model.

Let me be clear there lessons that MLS has taught that have contributed to stability that CANPL should implement. Such as Salary Cap, Revenue Sharing, League Sponsorship as a whole, playoff championship, summer schedule. These are all able to be implemented in an open system that has Pro/Rel.

One of the greatest lessons though AND DON'T OVERLOOK THIS is every successful franchise came from the community. Portland Seattle Whitecaps TFC RSL and especially now ORLANDO were not fabricated by the league. They had their own culture. 

Look at the Sacramento and Orlando ... see how the $$$$, fans, city officials, qualified owners and facilities came together the moment that they were working towards "PROMOTION" into D1 soccer. Now imagine an open market where every club in ANY city can MERIT there way into MLS. SOCCER WOULD EXPLODE. The soccer first Demographic would quickly look for a club that represents them and investors would look to build clubs for them.

Demand Clubs over Franchises.

I think we agree more than we disagree, and maybe I just need to be educated on the actual difference between clubs and franchises.  My point is merely that each club needs to have a safety net.

As far as the ideology behind pro/rel, I think that's where the voyaguers cup comes in.  It needs to be more open so that random town from buttfuck sasketchewan has a chance to play a team like the whitecaps, if they play well enough.  Yes, non-soccer fans don't generally care about low-level soccer, but I know if my hometown, Whitehorse FC were about to play the Whitecaps, you bet your ass the whole town would show up.

And as far as community goes.  Bang on, I 100% agree.  That was basically my inspiration for learning to design these crests in the first place.  Ask the community what it wants as opposed to tell the community what it has.  You can't just slap together an identity and expect the hardcores to run away from over a hundred years of history(in many cases)

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

46 minutes ago, C2SKI said:

For me, it's worrisome that we've even gotten this far without any fan consultation. This league shouldn't be an agreement between a few rich businessmen. It should be propelled by the aspirations of soccer loving folk across the country.

Just because we haven't been officially spoken to, doesn't mean rich businessmen aren't very closely in tune with our general sentiments.  How do you think most of them got to be rich businessmen in the first place?

Sure, they might not be reading every post, but we are whats known as market mavens(google it), I can pretty much guarantee anyone considering splashing around a few mil on this idea is at the very least paying someone who is aware of what we are up to.

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, matty said:

I'm gonna say look at the CFL (aka Canada's pro sports league). Why haven't they expanded to K-W or London?

Easy. I've mentioned this before in a different thread. Canadian football does not have anywhere close to the level of cultural impact or appeal across the country like hockey does. If it did, you would have teams in Windsor, London, Quebec City KW, Saskatoon, which are all cities that have been rumoured or casually mentioned as possible expansion candidates for the CFL. It's a risky endeavour for any ownership group and municipality to take on considering it's for a league that has stagnated, and in all honesty, declined in popularity. 

Now, before you come out and say the obvious about soccer having less cultural impact across the country than football, it might but the appeal part is debatable.

We won't see these cities come in at phase one. However, ten years down the road, after we have a Hamilton club selling out Tim Hortons field on a weekly basis for example, being witnessed by an ownership group and municipality hungry for an outdoor sports team, what sport do you think those cities are going to bank on?

Are you all starting to see why Bob Young choose this route over the NASL?

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, matty said:

The CFL is a pretty good draw in Hamilton, more than 24,000 people have attended each game this year in Hamilton. If you think the CFL wouldn't work in KW because it's viewed as second rate to the NFL then how do you think the CPL would succeed since the "real top flight" is already operating in Southern Ontario?

MLS isn't the NFL. Hypothetically, if you build a 25000 seater stadium in KW for the CPL, an MLS team in Toronto wouldn't have any impact on one's ability to sell said stadium out. If MLS was a big league with team wages that match the elite clubs in Europe, sure. However, in its current form? No.

[matty]

5 minutes ago, Macksam said:

Easy. I've mentioned this before in a different thread. Canadian football does not have anywhere close to the level of cultural impact or appeal across the country like hockey does. If it did, you would have teams in Windsor, London, Quebec City KW, Saskatoon, which are all cities that have been rumoured or casually mentioned as possible expansion candidates for the CFL. It's a risky endeavour for any ownership group and municipality to take on considering it's for a league that has stagnated, and in all honesty, declined in popularity. 

Now, before you come out and say the obvious about soccer having less cultural impact across the country than football, it might but the appeal part is debatable.

We won't see these cities come in at phase one. However, ten years down the road, after we have a Hamilton club selling out Tim Hortons field on a weekly basis for example, being witnessed by an ownership group and municipality hungry for an outdoor sports team, what sport do you think those cities are going to bank on?

I only see Saskatoon getting a team any time in the next 15 years, as Quebec is likely a founding club. Before anyone says Saskatoon is tinier than KW, this league will likely end up conferenced and they're going to do their best to balance it out.

GTA, Hamilton, Ottawa, Quebec, Moncton, Halifax/Montreal

Victoria/Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Saskatoon, Winnipeg

3 minutes ago, Macksam said:

MLS isn't the NFL. Hypothetically, if you build a 25000 seater stadium in KW for the CPL or what have you, an MLS team in Toronto wouldn't have any impact of you can sell said stadium out. If MLS was a big league with team wages that matches the elite in Europe, sure. However, in its current form? No.

I think you and a lot of people are getting over the top with KW. Firstly, why would anyone invest HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in a stadium that seats 25,000 in KW just for a soccer team when you would be competing for fans against TWO LARGER MARKETS THAT HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR YEARS?

MLS is the NFL for soccer in Canada. If the CPL is paying less money than it then naturually the MLS is going to be viewed as a better product than the CPL. Last time I checked the rumoured $1.5m(CND) cap is a lot less than $3.49m(USD and that's not including DPs.

There will likely never be a CPL team in KW

[-Hammer-]

On 9/9/2016 at 0:32 PM, Futballer said:

MLS commissioner Interview on the Sport Network .

I am guessing this interview is related to  MLS Canada getting worried about the Canadian Premier League Starting  up in 2018 and the progress it has made through sourcing investors Secretly. 

TSN has knowledge of the CPL for several years now as they have received offers to carry CPL games and  has yet to respond as TSN feels the League offer is above their  Budget.

 http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/video/garber-wants-more-growth-in-canada~946831

My response to the video is that the MLS has finally taken the Canadian Premier League as a Legitimate Competition.

Comment on Toronto Montreal Vancouver been more Nationally Successful is somewhat interesting while these teams are quite successful in their market. Interesting comment isnt it !, seems to me they actually want Toronto montreal Vancouver to fully outfit the Canadian National Men's Teams with players.

  

That video right there, is yet more evidence that MLS is completely not the way to go.

"We have a record, whopping 28 Canadian players who play (but not nesscarily start and get minutes in MLS)"

Garber: Yeah, you know we constantly want to grow the game for Canada by not treating them as domestic players. I mean, it's not like someone else would start up a new league and eclipse that number if they started 6 Canadians in a 6 team league.

"Hey any intrest in more clubs, like one in Calgary?"

Garber: No...I don't think so...I think we want to try to follow the Toronto Blue Jays model and try to get the whole nation to support our three clubs instead. I mean, that's worked out great for Canada, I mean 13 guys in the majors, that's pretty impressive stuff.

[Macksam]

34 minutes ago, matty said:

I only see Saskatoon getting a team any time in the next 15 years, as Quebec is likely a founding club. Before anyone says Saskatoon is tinier than KW, this league will likely end up conferenced and they're going to do their best to balance it out.

GTA, Hamilton, Ottawa, Quebec, Moncton, Halifax/Montreal

Victoria/Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Saskatoon, Winnipeg

I think you and a lot of people are getting over the top with KW. Firstly, why would anyone invest HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in a stadium that seats 25,000 in KW just for a soccer team when you would be competing for fans against TWO LARGER MARKETS THAT HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR YEARS?

MLS is the NFL for soccer in Canada. If the CPL is paying less money than it then naturually the MLS is going to be viewed as a better product than the CPL. Last time I checked the rumoured $1.5m(CND) cap is a lot less than $3.49m(USD and that's not including DPs.

There will likely never be a CPL team in KW

The example I gave would be when the CPL stabilizes and is looking for expansion. KW is an hour away from both of the cities in question. That's why.

MLS may be of higher quality, but TFC's ticket buying fanbase in KW is minimal if any at all. An upstart team in KW has nothing to worry about. No significant population drives hours to see an MLS team. If KW's OHL team can survive with the NHL in Toronto, a CPL team in KW can thrive with MLS, a league that is vastly inferior to all other major NA pro sports leagues, in Toronto. I'll say it again, MLS IS NOT THE NFL. 

[-Hammer-]

1 hour ago, matty said:

I'm gonna say look at the CFL (aka Canada's pro sports league). Why haven't they expanded to K-W or London?

Several reasons, first there isn't a viable stadium at either location. Permanent CFL stadiums must be a minimum of 20,000 and expandable to at least 45,000 to host a Grey Cup. TD Waterhosue is 8,000 and Tri-City I believe only has a 5,000 seater. Also, the appetite for building a larger stadium simply isn't there. Every CFL stadium in our country in some form, has been a result of public funds. Neither city has the policial will to undergo that project without a stadium in hand. However, for a new CPL team, given 5,000 is likely your break even point, playing in these stadiums or expanding them with private sector money is a far more likely scenario.

Second, is the league just expanded again with Ottawa and the CFL has generally approached expansion with a slow and steady hand since the US expansion debacle of the 90s. This would not be the case for a CPL franchise.

Third, these markets are small compared to other markets. With the exception of Regina every other CFL market is in a city with a Metro exceeding 700,000. Kitchener and London are both yet to hit 500,000 last I checked. Regina (which has always been an exception) has massive regional support across the province, which you can't create with 3 other teams down the road. Given the target fanbase of around 5,000, market isn't quite as large a concern as having teams close to reduce transport costs.

Fourth, there are better markets to expand into, presuming you can overcome local obstacles. Quebec City and Halifax come to mind, mainly because of the opportunity to expand television revenue far further then putting another team in Ontario. Quebec City hasn't had an owner interested enough and has a univeristy who is hostitle to the idea of a CFL team taking attendance away from the immensely successful Laval Rouge et Or Football program (which indicates to me there is a culture for the game there). That hostility may soften though has many Quebec CIS teams are catching up to Laval now. That and if they get burned the same way Hamilton was burned by the NHL, that could also open up CFL considerations. Halifax has been humming and hawing a stadium build for decades as well. This is a concern for the CPL, espcially if they want a TV contract, but they also can't spend out on transport.

Fifth, both cities are an hour away from Hamilton. When Macksam talks about protectionist regional BS, I agree with him insofar if the region is maxed out with current teams selling out, don't try to tell me regional rights must be protected. Everyone has accepted that a 2nd NHL team in Toronto or a team in Hamilton wouldn't kill the Leafs or Sabres. However, is our region maxed out as far as CFL Football is concerned? Toronto certainly isn't, that is for sure as the only time they are hitting CFL average numbers is when Hamilton comes to town. Hamilton is selling out now since moving into their new stadium, but since moving there has yet to be a rut of poor on field play by the team to test that. Has soccer maxed out in Southern Ontario. I have my doubts.