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ted

By ted
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matty Newbie

matty

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

I think this league needs to demonstrate legitimacy as priority 1, I am just very skeptical of doing that if we start at a high quota 

But this is dragging out and I don't want to dominate the discussion by nitpicking numbers. There's probably more fun things :)

I think legitimacy can be reached with a 50% quota on a 25 man roster and 3 starters. I also think the league can afford to put craving out a Canadian identity over being seen as a strong league for a few years while the academies and the regional leagues begin turning out strong players more often. There will be a grace period for this league if it puts Canada first big time, however if it doesn't and the product is lackluster it will suffer.

Now back to the DP talk because that one is fun

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-Hammer- Enthusiast

-Hammer-

Posted
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2 hours ago, matty said:

I don't know how effective that method would be. I honestly think a 50% roster quota and 3 on field at a time is very doable (especially with 6 teams) and would appeal more to your typical Canadian than a Latin/American/Euro majority roster would.

That makes sense too, however it's instrumental that the ON FIELD Canadian quota goes up. Minutes drive development, not bench time or practice squading.

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matty Newbie

matty

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6 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

That makes sense too, however it's instrumental that the ON FIELD Canadian quota goes up. Minutes drive development, not bench time or practice squading.

agree that's a quota that can be played with but overall roster spots shouldn't be. i think a minimum of 3 on the field at all times for the early years and progressing to maybe  6+5 thing would work best but this league needs to employ canadians and help them progress as far as they can here

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Stryker911 Veteran

Stryker911

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I am not sure if this has been mentioned previously. But I was wondering if it would make sense to include the mls reserve sides in the league? 

There are several reasons why it makes sense to me.

- the teams are predominantly Canadian already so it would go with the idea of developing Canadian talent.

-If a player gets cut then they already have exposure to the league and would have a good chance catching on with someone.

- perhaps most importantly it would provide deep pockets. These teams could afford to lose money for a few years and are never really hoping to make money from the team. 

- most top, young players will end up in mls academies. This could give an older late bloomer some exposure to an mls team.

- it also puts teams in Canada's largest markets. This would give the league more if an access to main stream media and would increase the growth of the league.

Sorry if this is rehashing an old conversation.

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-Hammer- Enthusiast

-Hammer-

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52 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

I am not sure if this has been mentioned previously. But I was wondering if it would make sense to include the mls reserve sides in the league? 

There are several reasons why it makes sense to me.

- the teams are predominantly Canadian already so it would go with the idea of developing Canadian talent.

-If a player gets cut then they already have exposure to the league and would have a good chance catching on with someone.

- perhaps most importantly it would provide deep pockets. These teams could afford to lose money for a few years and are never really hoping to make money from the team. 

- most top, young players will end up in mls academies. This could give an older late bloomer some exposure to an mls team.

- it also puts teams in Canada's largest markets. This would give the league more if an access to main stream media and would increase the growth of the league.

Sorry if this is rehashing an old conversation.

It is a rehash and the arguement has been done to death, but the reasons why it doesn't make sense are

- It's incredibly hard to market the CPL if it is percieved as an MLS farm league. It takes away massively from the percieved legitimacy of the league and as we know, the MLS farm squads draw peanuts for attendance. If the league can't be percieved as legitimate, it's doubtful to draw the fanbase needed to reach sustainability, which is estimated at around 4-5 thousand a team.

- It's doubtful that MLS is going to pay a 25-40K salary average in the CPL for their farms, given the current USL average is around 16K. That is pure speculation though.

- The current MLS reserve squads play in Stadiums that simply are too small for a league looking to grow and expand the game is a substantial profession fashion. They also play in stadiums that really aren't condusive to a television broadcast deal.

- Most top young players don't end up in MLS academies, although many do. Sigma for example has produced excellent players and they aren't an MLS acadmey from my understanding. Additionally, a core component of the CPL is likely to start more academies to feed CPL teams and talent bidders regardless. It also gives exsisting acadmies more options for players to go to.

- It's doubtful any MLS squad is interested in marketting it's farm team, when it's primary team is just down the road. Having owners who have a vested interest in not advertising the league is not a good idea.

- The MLS USL teams are predominantly Canadian because the CSA forces them to be Canadian to play in the USL. If they allow those teams to play in the CPL, it'd doubtful that rule would still apply and equally doubtful that the MLS farms would field as many Canadians

The intention of the CPL is to be like the Welsh league. Yes, it is overshadowed by the EPL and yes most of it's top teams play in the EPL. However the Welsh league develops Welsh players for their completely respectable national team and a sustainable finacial enterprise. It's also to raise the profile of the game across the nation, something which MLS doesn't want to do as it has outright said it doesn't want to award any more Canadian franchises.

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BringBackTheBlizzard Newbie

BringBackTheBlizzard

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4 hours ago, Kent said:

So 30% might not be enough of a differentiator to set it apart from MLS. Especially if they do double dip into one of the MLS markets.

If it's all about developing Canadian players, 70% would be more likely and the MLS reserve teams would be allowed in under another branding. Will be interested to hear what Paul Beirme has to say when he starts doing podcasts in about a month or so. 

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matty Newbie

matty

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26 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

If it's all about developing Canadian players, 70% would be more likely and the MLS reserve teams would be allowed in under another branding....

LOL this recent development has turned BBTB super bitter. ;)

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BringBackTheBlizzard Newbie

BringBackTheBlizzard

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What on earth? Would you mind explaining why you think I would be bitter, if that happened? If I was annoyed about anything it was that chasing a D1 fantasy was hindering progress that could have been made along those lines in the USL. Bringing this to resolution and making the compromises that will be needed to make something concrete happen is a good thing.

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matty Newbie

matty

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2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

What on earth? Would you mind explaining why you think I would be bitter, if that happened? If I was annoyed about anything it was that chasing a D1 fantasy was hindering progress that could have been made along those lines in the USL. Bringing this to resolution and making the compromises that will be needed to make something concrete happen is a good thing.

BBTB I'm just busting you. There's a certain tone that could easily be taken from what you said that feels very pissy. I'll add wink so it's clearer

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matty Newbie

matty

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6 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Still have no idea how you reached that conclusion. Maybe it's better to discuss ideas rather than personalities? 

BBTB you're one of my favourite posters here and I mean that. You actually bring something to the conversation. I was seriously just being a dick for a little laugh :)

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BringBackTheBlizzard Newbie

BringBackTheBlizzard

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OK, the way I see it is that there are different interests at work that don't necessarily neatly align among the people that are most keen on a CPL rather than a USL approach as the way ahead.

The Hamilton United people (now accept that there is very strong evidence this will be the name) want a D1 rival to MLS and can live with severely restricted Canadian content at the outset to make sure their league is clearly better than the USL and NASL and can give TFC  run for their money in Voyageurs Cup terms.

The CMNT/CSA oriented agenda is all about jobs for Canadian players and people with that outlook can probably live with an obvious developmental status with respect to MLS and player moves overseas as long as it helps to get Canadian players to where they need to be to strengthen the CMNT in future World Cup qualification cycles.

I'll be interested in what Paul Beirne has to say as he has been hired to make this actually happen and set up solid future employment prospects for himself, unlike Totera and Rollins, who were to a large extent looking to generate attention for their podcasts and probably were aware that an anti-MLS spin was good click bait.

Once this stops being about peoples' aspirations and starts being about concrete actions some people are going to be disappointed in the direction this takes and it probabky won't take long for that to start happening. I suspect that's more likely to be the people that want a D1 Canadian rival to MLS than those with a CMNT/CSA oriented agenda as eight groups running on NASL level budgets is a very big ask and the CSA probably want something to be operational before their 2026 World Cup bid is submitted. 

 

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Ansem Veteran

Ansem

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I don't think that private investor's interest has to be in conflict with what the CSA is trying to accomplish in the grand scheme of things. The CPL and their investors is a tool to strengthen the National program, but for that tool to happen, the CSA can't have a dictatorial attitude towards the owners either. As we all know that in the end "money talks" and the CSA needs the CPL and their owners funds, so some kind of balance between investors expectation on a return on their money and the CSA wanting to develop more players can be achieved.

  • Canadian players: 50% quota can work. If investors wants the most competitive team on the field to attract fans with a quality level of play, I could see where owners would want no restrictions on their starting lineups while the CSA would want to avoid an all international starting line up while all the Canadians are on the bench. A good compromise would be a fix number of Canadian players in the starting line up so they have more minutes to properly develop.
  • Canadian jobs: I disagree with the rational that coaching and support staff must be Canadian. Teams should hire the best staff available, period.

CPL isn't about rivaling the MLS. It's about Canada finally having a top tier league to further develop domestic talents and at the same time, giving opportunities to investors to do business in a clearly untapped market.

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baulderdash77 Proficient

baulderdash77

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I think it can probably work as a 50% CanCon and 50% of the gameday roster as well.  In effect that allows teams to field a competitive looking product and while it doesn't guarantee Canadian playing time per se, it certainly encourages it.

At a minimum each team would field 2 Canadian starters and 3 reserves per game, but functionally it would probably be slightly higher.  I.e. 4/2 or something.  

Teams won't be fielding 6/7/8 Canadian starters each week because at $50-$60k salaries you can get players from Latin America and Africa who may be better than the average Canadian player.

 

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Gopherbashi Newbie

Gopherbashi

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24 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

 

Rollins mentioned on the two solitudes yesterday that there could be an announcement of opening up the voyageurs cup soon.

"Participation in the Voyageurs Cup will now be extended to non-farm USL teams"

I don't know; I really question opening it up prior to the CPL starting.  Might as well just do it all in one shot.

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