Canadian Premier League

[nolbertos]

It's been awhile since I posted and see that this is happening.  My pessimism hasn'y changed and think it's auicide going it alone without a safety net (ala partnering with USL or NASL).  I was there at the last CSLlaunch and noticed it failed too because Canadians rarely support leagues without some American financial involvement, except CFL.  If it works out, and they an ride the storm of potentially low attendances, then this league might have legs.  If it fails, well, it's never late to join USL.  Regarding not having teams in the main media markets, the only way they'll have a presence is either let a CPL financed team from the Caps or Impact join.  I honestly think the USL teams should stay where they are, as the USL is better competition than CPL during its first 2-3 years.

[matty]

Just now, Rheo said:

They don't need to go public until they have everything ready to go.  99.99% of Canada has little to no clue about the CPL.  It's only the few of us who spend too much time on here discussing it that feel that things are going too slow.  When they do finally announce it those 99.99% are going to say "Wow, that's interesting.  They're starting a Soccer league in Canada" while we'll be back here debating every little scrap of information that has been released lol.

I agree when ready but the time is very much right atm with soccer being hot. If they're as ready as we've been lead to believe then announcing the plan before the end of the year should be no issue

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

Who else in the Edmonton market is going to look at starting up a sports team, especially one that will a) start at a lower level than the existing club, and b ) have an obvious example of how soccer draws in Edmonton? The answer that gets thrown around a lot is the Eskimos ownership, but they have a very good relationship with the Faths, and no interest in diversifying to my knowledge. I also know without a doubt that Katz or the Oiler ownership have absolutely ZERO interest in a soccer club. How exactly are you going to force a fan base to not be divided exactly? By taking away FCEd? leading into...

Don`t have to be from Edmonton to own an Edmonton team.

4 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

2) There's been literally zero talk that I have heard of de-sanctioning FCEd. Quite the opposite, every comment that I've heard from those in the CPL are still attempting to get the Faths on board, but are ok proceeding without FCEd or Edmonton as a market.

Well, having FCE join of their own will is the best case scenario. That`s why they are being patient and are waiting while working on the CPL launch. Ultimately, the CSA recent moves makes it adamantly clear that outside of the 3 MLS teams, there`s no way they will have Canadian clubs play in American Leagues. Look at the Fury and how the CSA made their move to USL conditional to them joining CPL once it launches.

Also, the fact that those owners wants to stay in NASL is really irrelevant in the end. The CSA has full power and the right to desanction them and there`s nothing FCE can do to block that. That also means that NASL can`t operate on Canadian soil as well, so what are they going to do? FCE has really no leverage here and if you think CSA will just give up Edmonton, you`re dreaming. When the CSA says ''we won't force them but hope they realize that it's in their own interest to join'', it does not mean that they get to do what they want, it's clear that they are given an unofficial deadline to realize what's good for them.

Again, no way in hell the CSA gives up Edmonton to the NASL

15 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

The Fath brothers have been VERY clear that they have no current interest in joining a Canadian league. I've heard a few stories, but the most obvious reason would be that they have been firm NASL owners since day 1 in the NASL. That's a lot of time, energy and most importantly money invested in that league.

So? I think the CSA is more interested on what`s good for the National Program than the Fath Bros. unlucky investment. The status quo doesn`t work for Canada, yet you think the CSA will allow more of what has failed us for years. No one forced the Fath Bros. to pour money in the NASL. They choose to do it knowing in advance what owning a soccer club meant, basically that playing that NASL was always conditional to the CSA sanctioning and that it was never irrevocable.

National interest trumps Fath bros. personal interest

19 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

They're not going to jump ship just to go through it all over again. I'm also no legal expert, but I'm not sure how you can legally pull sanctioning for one club but leave the MLS teams untouched.

They don`t have to jump ship. But losing their sanctioning means they can`t operate in NASL from Canadian soil. If they want to stay in NASL so bad, they would have to move and get a USSF sanction from an American market.

Who the CSA sanction is entirely at their discretion as per FIFA rules. If there was one day a scenario where the CSA decided to to the same to TFC, Impact and Whitecaps, same thing would happen. Until then, coexisting with the 3 MLS clubs pending a change of rules regarding domestic players is what`s going to happen. Montagliani did say that a refusal by MLS to change the rules would expose them to desanctioning as well

23 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

That would be a fight that I seriously doubt that the CSA wants to get into.

What fight? Last time I checked, if you and I sign a binding contract, as long as it doesn't violate the law, it's legal and the court won't undo it. Like I said above, no one forced FCE to pour money in NASL and they knew in advance what sanctioning from the CSA meant. They have no case here. They can move the team if they want.

26 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

If they looked at moving, then that might be a different story (similar to Ottawa), but I don't see a world where FCEd gets forced into a league (Fath would be pissed, and lawsuits would be filed, I can almost promise you that), but the MLS clubs get a pass.

They have no legal case. They either join CPL, lose their sanction and play in CSL or move to the States and get USSF sanction. CSA have total control over Canada and have the power to ban NASL.

[lazlo_80]

10 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Join the dots. That would show that they are happy to be a D2 operation and would not be trying to compete with MLS. The obvious predent for using smaller markets would be the National Basketball League of Canada running alongside the Raptors.

There's no dots to join. They haven't said anything official about what teams they are launching with. This is just Matty and I going back and forth about a hypothetical.

[lazlo_80]

23 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Don`t have to be from Edmonton to own an Edmonton team.

Well, having FCE join of their own will is the best case scenario. That`s why they are being patient and are waiting while working on the CPL launch. Ultimately, the CSA recent moves makes it adamantly clear that outside of the 3 MLS teams, there`s no way they will have Canadian clubs play in American Leagues. Look at the Fury and how the CSA made their move to USL conditional to them joining CPL once it launches.

Also, the fact that those owners wants to stay in NASL is really irrelevant in the end. The CSA has full power and the right to desanction them and there`s nothing FCE can do to block that. That also means that NASL can`t operate on Canadian soil as well, so what are they going to do? FCE has really no leverage here and if you think CSA will just give up Edmonton, you`re dreaming. When the CSA says ''we won't force them but hope they realize that it's in their own interest to join'', it does not mean that they get to do what they want, it's clear that they are given an unofficial deadline to realize what's good for them.

Again, no way in hell the CSA gives up Edmonton to the NASL

So? I think the CSA is more interested on what`s good for the National Program than the Fath Bros. unlucky investment. The status quo doesn`t work for Canada, yet you think the CSA will allow more of what has failed us for years. No one forced the Fath Bros. to pour money in the NASL. They choose to do it knowing in advance what owning a soccer club meant, basically that playing that NASL was always conditional to the CSA sanctioning and that it was never irrevocable.

National interest trumps Fath bros. personal interest

They don`t have to jump ship. But losing their sanctioning means they can`t operate in NASL from Canadian soil. If they want to stay in NASL so bad, they would have to move and get a USSF sanction from an American market.

Who the CSA sanction is entirely at their discretion as per FIFA rules. If there was one day a scenario where the CSA decided to to the same to TFC, Impact and Whitecaps, same thing would happen. Until then, coexisting with the 3 MLS clubs pending a change of rules regarding domestic players is what`s going to happen. Montagliani did say that a refusal by MLS to change the rules would expose them to desanctioning as well

What fight? Last time I checked, if you and I sign a binding contract, as long as it doesn't violate the law, it's legal and the court won't undo it. Like I said above, no one forced FCE to pour money in NASL and they knew in advance what sanctioning from the CSA meant. They have no case here. They can move the team if they want.

They have no legal case. They either join CPL, lose their sanction and play in CSL or move to the States and get USSF sanction. CSA have total control over Canada and have the power to ban NASL.

It's not in the national interest to strong arm an early investor in professional soccer in this country.

I'm not saying your opinion is invalid. But to suggest it is fact is absurd.

[Ansem]

Just now, lazlo_80 said:

It's not in the national interest to strong arm an early investor in professional soccer in this country.

I'm not saying your opinion is invalid. But to suggest it is fact is absurd.

It`s an opinion, however, it`s fact that the CSA is moving away from status quo. FCE staying in NASL is exactly that, more of the same while potentiality interfering with CPL viability and exposure.

MLS was absolutely ruthless in their gutting of the NASL, why would CPL be any different here?

[shermanator]

IMO, FC Edmonton maintaining the status quo would not be a smart move for the club. For all the Fath's time, effort and money, all they've built is an unsustainable club a poor following playing in a patchwork stadium with in a in a league that itself looks less and less sustainable.

The club should for all intents and purposes be dead in the water by now, but it isn't, and the only reasonable explanation as to why is that the Faths don't mind losing a lot of money. I get that Fath has repeatedly said that he has no interest in joining another league. I just don't think that's a particularly wise decision for him to make.

Having said this, I don't think it's wise for the CSA to force the club over to the new CPL should they have no interest in doing so. Even if the club has been far from successful on and off the pitch, the Fath's have still put a lot of money into the game in this country when not many others were, and that should be respected.

[lazlo_80]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

It`s an opinion, however, it`s fact that the CSA is moving away from status quo. FCE staying in NASL is exactly that, more of the same while potentiality interfering with CPL viability and exposure.

MLS was absolutely ruthless in their gutting of the NASL, why would CPL be any different here?

MLS took teams from NASL.

But The US soccer federation never strong armed NASL teams into moving into the MLS by threatening desanctioning.

Your comparison is incorrect.

 

 

[jedinathan]

7 minutes ago, Ansem said:

It`s an opinion, however, it`s fact that the CSA is moving away from status quo. FCE staying in NASL is exactly that, more of the same while potentiality interfering with CPL viability and exposure.

MLS was absolutely ruthless in their gutting of the NASL, why would CPL be any different here?

IMO mostly because you're frustrating/driving away a ownership group who has already demonstrated that they have a long term interest in the development of Canadian Soccer. Which is pretty much what the CSA wants.

I don't know about ruthless, but saying the MLS gutted the NASL and therefore the CPL should do the same to the USL/NASL in Canada is implying that the ownership in FCEd WANTS to move to a different league. There was no forcing the NASL clubs that have left that league to move... they did out of their own interest. I'm saying that the Faths do not have that interest.

Look, there's another way at this. If the Can League is as good as its supposed to be, then FCEd will WANT to join the league at some point. When it demonstrates the stability and success, then its not an issue. I can't see how the CPL is hurt by FCEd staying in the NASL for the time being, and as @shermanator pointed out above, its prob in the Faths best interest to join at some point. But strong arming for the sake of strong arming is absolutely counter productive. This country doesn't have tons of millionaires throwing money down the drain for our entertainment. The CSA should (and from what I've heard, does) recognize that they have to treat the Faths fairly so that they might have a chance to get them on board at some point.

[rob.notenboom]

It's remarkable what people are describing as 'clear' on here. Very little is clear on either side of these discussions at all. 

Paul Beirne has been hired? Clear. 

The CSA has the power to sanction teams in Canada? Clear. 

FCE will be allowed to stay in NASL/forced to move to CanPL? Not clear. 

CanPL is ready to launch with 6 teams/with 10 teams/is struggling to find teams? Unclear. 

 

UN. CLEAR. 

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

MLS took teams from NASL.

But The US soccer federation never strong armed NASL teams into moving into the MLS by threatening desanctioning.

Your comparison is incorrect.

 

 

I was being specific about competition, not sanctioning. MLS viewed NASL as competition and went for the jugular as soon as they were in a position to do so.

No businessman are in the business of losing money when you don`t have to. That`s why it`s unlikely that CPL will give up the Edmonton market, espacially when there`s money to be made on a Calgary-Edmonton rivalry which would solidify that league.

6 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Having said this, I don't think it's wise for the CSA to force the club over to the new CPL should they have no interest in doing so. Even if the club has been far from successful on and off the pitch, the Fath's have still put a lot of money into the game in this country when not many others were, and that should be respected.

You`re right, I'd prefer to find a new ownership that has deep pockets and all in on CPL than owners that are against it. It really makes no sense for them to hold on to NASL. That being said, there are mechanism to open that market to CPL and desanctioning is a sure way to do it.

[jedinathan]

1 minute ago, rob.notenboom said:

It's remarkable what people are describing as 'clear' on here. Very little is clear on either side of these discussions at all. 

Paul Beirne has been hired? Clear. 

The CSA has the power to sanction teams in Canada? Clear. 

FCE will be allowed to stay in NASL/forced to move to CanPL? Not clear. 

CanPL is ready to launch with 6 teams/with 10 teams/is struggling to find teams? Unclear. 

 

UN. CLEAR. 

Obvs Things are clear... Its right there in your post... "UN. CLEAR"

OBVS mate

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, jedinathan said:

I feel like this has been talked about over and over again, but I'll do it one more time.

1) Who else in the Edmonton market is going to look at starting up a sports team, especially one that will a) start at a lower level than the existing club, and b ) have an obvious example of how soccer draws in Edmonton? The answer that gets thrown around a lot is the Eskimos ownership, but they have a very good relationship with the Faths, and no interest in diversifying to my knowledge. I also know without a doubt that Katz or the Oiler ownership have absolutely ZERO interest in a soccer club. How exactly are you going to force a fan base to not be divided exactly? By taking away FCEd? leading into...

2) There's been literally zero talk that I have heard of de-sanctioning FCEd. Quite the opposite, every comment that I've heard from those in the CPL are still attempting to get the Faths on board, but are ok proceeding without FCEd or Edmonton as a market.

The Fath brothers have been VERY clear that they have no current interest in joining a Canadian league. I've heard a few stories, but the most obvious reason would be that they have been firm NASL owners since day 1 in the NASL. That's a lot of time, energy and most importantly money invested in that league. They're not going to jump ship just to go through it all over again. I'm also no legal expert, but I'm not sure how you can legally pull sanctioning for one club but leave the MLS teams untouched. That would be a fight that I seriously doubt that the CSA wants to get into. So long as FCEd maintains the status quo, I have to think that the CSA will be ok with it. If they looked at moving, then that might be a different story (similar to Ottawa), but I don't see a world where FCEd gets forced into a league (Fath would be pissed, and lawsuits would be filed, I can almost promise you that), but the MLS clubs get a pass.

Sandor said that Katz bid on FC Edmonton before, so he clearly isn't repulsed by the idea 

But I agree. The day Edmonton are in CPL is the day that Fath folds and we get lucky enough that someone picks up the torch. It's not impossible but it doesn't look super likely at this point. 

However, with the Flames owning a team, maybe Katz gets more interested 

[jedinathan]

Just now, Ansem said:

I was being specific about competition, not sanctioning. MLS viewed NASL as competition and went for the jugular as soon as they were in a position to do so.

No businessman are in the business of losing money when you don`t have to. That`s why it`s unlikely that CPL will give up the Edmonton market, espacially when there`s money to be made on a Calgary-Edmonton rivalry which would solidify that league.

You`re right, I'd prefer to find a new ownership that has deep pockets and all in on CPL than owners that are against it. It really makes no sense for them to hold on to NASL. That being said, there are mechanism to open that market to CPL and desanctioning is a sure way to do it.

Not true.. De-sanctioning can also result in the Faths saying "Fine, then we're out". And you potentially lose a solid Edmonton ownership.

[jedinathan]

Just now, Complete Homer said:

Sandor said that Katz bid on FC Edmonton before, so he clearly isn't repulsed by the idea 

But I agree. The day Edmonton are in CPL is the day that Fath folds and we get lucky enough that someone picks up the torch. It's not impossible but it doesn't look super likely at this point. 

However, with the Flames owning a team, maybe Katz gets more interested 

Katz has no interest in a Canadian League team. Heard that numerous times from various people around FCEd who knew more details about that bid.

[lazlo_80]

MAn, when is Tortera going to drop his next CPL nugget? I'm ready for us to freak out over something else.

[Complete Homer]

14 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said:

It's remarkable what people are describing as 'clear' on here. Very little is clear on either side of these discussions at all. 

Paul Beirne has been hired? Clear. 

The CSA has the power to sanction teams in Canada? Clear. 

FCE will be allowed to stay in NASL/forced to move to CanPL? Not clear. 

CanPL is ready to launch with 6 teams/with 10 teams/is struggling to find teams? Unclear. 

 

UN. CLEAR. 

I think between Beirne's comments, Rollins saying "launch at 8 but 7 is a possibility", FuryFanatic tweeting that Rollins words lines up with what he is hearing now (who BringBackTheBlizzard loves to quote as the "opposing view") and that there will be a launch in 2018 but not all clubs are ready... 

That definitely paints the picture that there is a core group of teams, likely at least 6, that are solid for 2018. There's little that paints the picture that they are struggling to hit this minimum, and given that multiple sources (that previously even had a level of animosity towards CPL) say there are teams that also want to join in 2019, I think the larger stretch is that they are struggling to find teams

[shermanator]

11 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said:

It's remarkable what people are describing as 'clear' on here. Very little is clear on either side of these discussions at all. 

Paul Beirne has been hired? Clear. 

The CSA has the power to sanction teams in Canada? Clear. 

FCE will be allowed to stay in NASL/forced to move to CanPL? Not clear. 

CanPL is ready to launch with 6 teams/with 10 teams/is struggling to find teams? Unclear. 

 

UN. CLEAR. 

Also what's clear is that any Calgary CPL team would wipe the floor with any Edmonton CPL team. City of Chumps, I say!

[Complete Homer]

7 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

Katz has no interest in a Canadian League team. Heard that numerous times from various people around FCEd who knew more details about that bid.

Fair, but the league doesn't depend on Edmonton. Ten years from now, if Katz is interested in an NASL team of all leagues, be could still be persuaded in time. I suspect he would have the same apprehension that Fath has, that he thinks the quality will be too low. If CPL grows and proves in time that it matches and surpasses NASL (as they certainly will with the salaries proposed if they don't choke the league with a 75% Canadian quota off the bat), then the league can show him why he should be here

He put in a bid on a D2 team, isolated from the entire league, that plays in a league that has always had questions around stability. If he's interested in that, I think he could be interested in CPL if it proves itself

[Ansem]

5 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

IMO mostly because you're frustrating/driving away a ownership group who has already demonstrated that they have a long term interest in the development of Canadian Soccer. Which is pretty much what the CSA wants.

Status quo doesn`t work. Repeting something over and over expecting a different result is insanity.

6 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

I don't know about ruthless, but saying the MLS gutted the NASL and therefore the CPL should do the same to the USL/NASL in Canada is implying that the ownership in FCEd WANTS to move to a different league. There was no forcing the NASL clubs that have left that league to move... they did out of their own interest. I'm saying that the Faths do not have that interest.

You`re right. They shouldn't be forced in CPL but they shouldn't be an obstacle to CPL either.  In the end, their fate is in their hands. I'm just pointing out why the signs points to how unlickely it is that the CSA will let NASL keep the Edmonton market, which would be at the CPL and what the CSA is trying to accomplish expanses.

If they were in Lethbridge and D2 didn`t exist in Canada, I could see them being allowed to stay in NASL. But, CPL will exist and they are holding on a major Canadian market. That`s why I doubt status quo in their case will be allowed.

Look how clear the CSA made clear that Ottawa had to be CPL territory, hence restricting their move to USL. No way were they surrendering the 4th biggest market in Canada to USL that would compete with an eventual CPL club. 

Doesn`t action speak louder than words at some point???

12 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

Look, there's another way at this. If the Can League is as good as its supposed to be, then FCEd will WANT to join the league at some point. When it demonstrates the stability and success, then its not an issue. I can't see how the CPL is hurt by FCEd staying in the NASL for the time being, and as @shermanator pointed out above, its prob in the Faths best interest to join at some point. But strong arming for the sake of strong arming is absolutely counter productive. This country doesn't have tons of millionaires throwing money down the drain for our entertainment. The CSA should (and from what I've heard, does) recognize that they have to treat the Faths fairly so that they might have a chance to get them on board at some point.

I'm against forcing them, but I'm equally against obstacles to CPL success.

CPL by the way is rumored to be 3rd in CONCACAF in salary. That's already above NASL level.

[jedinathan]

Just now, Complete Homer said:

Fair, but the league doesn't depend on Edmonton. Ten years from now, if Katz is interested in an NASL team of all leagues, be could still be persuaded in time. I suspect he would have the same apprehension that Fath has, that he thinks the quality will be too low. If CPL grows and proves in time that it matches and surpasses NASL (as they certainly will with the salaries proposed if they don't choke the league with a 75% Canadian quota off the bat), then the league can show him why he should be here

I would say that Katz was interested in the brand and what could potentially happen with it, not the NASL.

I have to think that the league would go to the current club in the market, rather than trying to fracture both clubs.

[Ansem]

10 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

Not true.. De-sanctioning can also result in the Faths saying "Fine, then we're out". And you potentially lose a solid Edmonton ownership.

It's not exactly losing when they didn't want in to begin with. It just opened a spot for potential investors

[Complete Homer]

10 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

I would say that Katz was interested in the brand and what could potentially happen with it, not the NASL.

I have to think that the league would go to the current club in the market, rather than trying to fracture both clubs.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, mind rephrasing? 

I'm imagining a future scenario several years down the line (assuming NASL survives) and Fath finally calls it quits. Katz sees CPL playing at NASL level and drawing similar crowds (assuming it is now stable and meeting expectations), decides to pick up a low cost asset and see what happens in CPL with actual rivals and lowered travel costs.

He could make a marketing push of "saving the team" and "bringing it up a league" and even invest in some of the promotion that Edmonton has struggled with

Who knows what Katz's exact trepidations regarding CPL are? Is he worried about the level of play? Thinks it's too risky to be a launch team? Was put off by Futballer's group and dismissed the whole idea? Is he insistent on an American league? Several of those may be addressed a few seasons into CPL's life and suddenly become attractive to Katz 

We can agree that Edmonton won't be  a 2018 or 2019 team, and the Faths certainly won't be forced over, but I think it's silly to dismiss the possibility of CPL when Katz has been interested in owning and supporting a team in a league that has become a punchline in the soccer community 

[jedinathan]

4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Status quo doesn`t work. Repeting something over and over expecting a different result is insanity.

You`re right. They shouldn't be forced in CPL but they shouldn't be an obstacle to CPL either.  In the end, their fate is in their hands. I'm just pointing out why the signs points to how unlickely it is that the CSA will let NASL keep the Edmonton market, which would be at the CPL and what the CSA is trying to accomplish expanses.

If they were in Lethbridge and D2 didn`t exist in Canada, I could see them being allowed to stay in NASL. But, CPL will exist and they are holding on a major Canadian market. That`s why I doubt status quo in their case will be allowed.

Look how clear the CSA made clear that Ottawa had to be CPL territory, hence restricting their move to USL. No way were they surrendering the 4th biggest market in Canada to USL that would compete with an eventual CPL club. 

Doesn`t action speak louder than words at some point???

I'm against forcing them, but I'm equally against obstacles to CPL success.

CPL by the way is rumored to be 3rd in CONCACAF in salary. That's already above NASL level.

Great. The players will get paid enough to make more than NASL players. That doesn't mean the quality of play will be above what the NASL is currently at. Its gonna take several years to get to that point. Canada just doesn't have the players at that level, otherwise there would be 75% of FCEd roster, or Ottawa's roster already. Putting in those ratios are great for the future development, but just putting out cash doesn't mean that players can play at that level.

I hear what you're saying about Edmonton. I do disagree with how important it needs to be, that there are outside investors willing to look at Edmonton as a potential investment. You keep on labeling Edmonton as a major market, but everything that FCEd has shown is that its simply not a major market. There's no "major obstacle" in Edmonton that prevents the CPL from being a success in my opinion.

To be fair, there is nothing that is restricting Ottawa. Just rumors from sources about limits. Same as my info about Katz. And sure, Edmonton could get the same response, but they haven't needed to apply for a waiver to play in the USL. That's where the restrictions can come from. Edmonton (to the best of my knowledge) is still in a very good standing with the CSA. At some point, the CSA could for sure say "Alright, we're going to be looking to transition you to the CPL, so here's the criteria" but the point is that they haven't. At all.

[jedinathan]

9 minutes ago, Ansem said:

It's not exactly losing when they didn't want in to begin with. It just opened a spot for potential investors

HAHAHAHAHA yep. Cuse theres TONS of investors who want to jump into a market where the most successful owner ever just folded. Sorry man. Just don't see it that way. Edmonton has been tried again, and again, and again, and FCEd is THE ONLY club that made it past 5 years.