Canadian Premier League

[Ansem]

London and Kitchener-Waterloo are the right markets for CPL

[FC_Hali]

12 minutes ago, matty said:

Nah Thunder Bay. I look forward to "KRC Genk Thunder Bay"

Rayo OKC-Kitchener-Waterloo

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

4 hours ago, Kent said:

@GuillermoDelQuarto draw us up Charlottetown Potatoes and AC Vancouver logos please. Try to capture the hatred of Canada in the ACV logo.

I... wut.  Have I missed something??  lol 

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, -Hammer- said:

See this is odd to me. I mean, I think most are thinking Bob Young and the Ti-Cats are going to be behind Hamilton and if Toronto isn't your destination that leaves Ottawa with the Fury which will be contentious. That really just leaves London & Tri-City. 

Seems a bit odd to me too. I'm suspicious that they are either very very early in the process of looking at a franchise, or assume think they can make a go at Mississauga as separate market. Or they are just kicking the tires and this is getting over-reported

[baulderdash77]

51 minutes ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

I... wut.  Have I missed something??  lol 

I think he's inferring that just because the Vancouver Whitecaps hate Canada, the rest of BC does as well.

[Kent]

45 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Seems a bit odd to me too. I'm suspicious that they are either very very early in the process of looking at a franchise, or assume think they can make a go at Mississauga as separate market. Or they are just kicking the tires and this is getting over-reported

Didn't Rollins say today he is expecting "at least" 1 team in the GTA and at least 2 in the Golden Horseshoe. Obviously Hamilton would be the other GH team, then there could be Goldhar FC in Toronto proper, and possibly Mississauga Celtic or Bayern Markham or whatever it is.

I'm just looking forward to seeing how this all shakes out. What sticks and what doesn't.

[Complete Homer]

29 minutes ago, Kent said:

Didn't Rollins say today he is expecting "at least" 1 team in the GTA and at least 2 in the Golden Horseshoe. Obviously Hamilton would be the other GH team, then there could be Goldhar FC in Toronto proper, and possibly Mississauga Celtic or Bayern Markham or whatever it is.

I'm just looking forward to seeing how this all shakes out. What sticks and what doesn't.

I read "two in the Golden Horseshoe" as including both Hamilton and Toronto, seeing as Toronto is included within the golden horseshoe. There has been talk of expansion sides being lined up, maybe this euro team will come in as an expansion if it actually materializes 

Granted, I'd  be pretty happy to be wrong. 4 Ontario teams would be amazing

[Gopherbashi]

Yeah, I normally think of the GH as being roughly synonymous with the GTHA + Niagara, but admittedly it's not a term I see used a lot.  Like Complete Homer, I'd read it as "2 in the Golden Horseshoe, including 1 in the GTA", assuming Rollins is using the same definition.

It would be an odd phrase to use, since if anything's a certainty in this league, it's Hamilton.  He could just as easily say that he's "expecting Hamilton and at least one team in the GTA" without giving anything else away.  It's possible he meant "1 in the GTA, and 2 [outside the GTA yet] in the GH".  Not clear.

4 teams would be nice if they could make it work but it seems risky to start.  I get that things will naturally gravitate to Ontario just due to population, but if Rollins' rumoured 7-8 teams are correct, 4 teams in Ontario would start to feel a little bit unbalanced.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

3 hours ago, TRM said:

True. It was actually formed by the Irish in Scotland because no team would hire a Catholic (it wasn't just Rangers back then that did that).

It's a bit more complex than that. Celtic were formed to emulate the success of Hibs in Edinburgh and Rangers only stopped signing Roman Catholics (for the most part anyway, there were a few exceptions even before Mo Johnston like Don Kitchenbrand) around the time of the Home Rule crisis and the Easter Rising, which is when things really became bitterly polarized. About a third of the immigrants to the Scottish coal fields from Ireland were actually Protestant and their descendants form a significant portion of the Rangers support. That's arguably what led to Rangers having a very strongly Unionist culture that is out of tune with most of Scottish society nowadays as the shipbuilding industry in Govan had strong links to Belfast. Nothing in Canadian pro sports comes remotely close to the passion that surrounds an Old Firm derby and that's a postive thing for Canadian society.

[Macksam]

3 hours ago, matty said:

Nah Thunder Bay. I look forward to "KRC Genk Thunder Bay"

What? It's clearly Red Star Mississauga  

[Complete Homer]

50 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Yeah, I normally think of the GH as being roughly synonymous with the GTHA + Niagara, but admittedly it's not a term I see used a lot.  Like Complete Homer, I'd read it as "2 in the Golden Horseshoe, including 1 in the GTA", assuming Rollins is using the same definition.

It would be an odd phrase to use, since if anything's a certainty in this league, it's Hamilton.  He could just as easily say that he's "expecting Hamilton and at least one team in the GTA" without giving anything else away.  It's possible he meant "1 in the GTA, and 2 [outside the GTA yet] in the GH".  Not clear.

4 teams would be nice if they could make it work but it seems risky to start.  I get that things will naturally gravitate to Ontario just due to population, but if Rollins' rumoured 7-8 teams are correct, 4 teams in Ontario would start to feel a little bit unbalanced.

I think it fits with the idea of expansion. If Totera/Rollins are just getting wind of these guys now, it seems to imply that they came in pretty late. Given that he said today that 8 is the goal but 7  at launch is possible, my bet is:

Launch

- Toronto

- Hamilton

- Calgary

- Winnipeg

- "BC Team"

- Regina

- Quebec City

- *maybe* Ottawa if they get on board (difference between 7 and 8)

"Conservative" Expansion over the long term

- Attempt to convince Ottawa to join if it has not already

- Attempt to convince Edmonton to join

- Euro club possibly entering an Ontario market

- Exploring the possibility of an east coast team

[toontownman]

Team in Winnipeg?

Sod Winnipeg (Sorry Winnipegians) OBVIOUSLY all everyone is asking is confirmation of the Saskatchewan team. 

Blatantly not getting one in Saskatoon anytime soon but I will travel to Regina. Winnipeg, Calgary or Edmonton is pushing it. 

[Rheo]

What is the stadium situation in the East Coast like?  I know Moncton from the World Cup but not sure of the rest.  Thanks

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, Rheo said:

What is the stadium situation in the East Coast like?  I know Moncton from the World Cup but not sure of the rest.  Thanks

They have nothing outside of university stadiums which wouldn't make the cut. If Halifax were to join, they would have to build a new stadium...same for St.John's.

Moncton is the only one ready to go if they configure it like the 2015 world cup

[Rheo]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They have nothing outside of university stadiums which wouldn't make the cut. If Halifax were to join, they would have to build a new stadium...same for St.John's.

Moncton is the only one ready to go if they configure it like the 2015 world cup

Thanks

[Levi Oakey]

As a United supporter I know that Barry Maclean has connections with a lot of European clubs. I could see it as KW. By the way, Waterloo is considered to be part of the "Greater Golden Horseshoe" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horseshoe). That would be 3 teams in Ontario plus hopefully Ottawa. Add Winnipeg, Calgary and BC and you have 7.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

10 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

4 teams would be nice if they could make it work but it seems risky to start.  I get that things will naturally gravitate to Ontario just due to population, but if Rollins' rumoured 7-8 teams are correct, 4 teams in Ontario would start to feel a little bit unbalanced.

You need investors to make something like this fly and southern Ontario is where you are probably more likely to find rich first generation immigrants that see soccer as a labour of love rather than a long term investment opportunity. Think Frank Stronach (although he does it in Austria rather than Canada) or the Maccabi Tel Aviv guy in the present day on that or the owner of the Toronto Olympians for those that have been following Canadian soccer for a long time. Has Duane Rollins ever unequivocally stated that any city outside the Golden Horseshoe definitely has an investor in place rather than using weasel words like "very likely"? The BC and Quebec angle always seems very vague, and the Prairies stuff seems to date back to the NASL/CSL scenario of two years ago and has never seemed to generate any rumours emanating from the actual cites that are said to be involved. In recent decades especially pre-MLS, the Toronto soccer community has often been in a little bubble where they assumed they set the agenda for the whole province/country in a centre of the universe sort of way with stuff like the CPSL, while everybody else did their own thing and paid very little attention to them.

[Zem]

19 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They have nothing outside of university stadiums which wouldn't make the cut. If Halifax were to join, they would have to build a new stadium...same for St.John's.

Not true actually, King George V Park is soccer-specific and could seat enough to meet the requirements suggested by Rollins. I'm not sure exactly what the rated capacity is now, I believe it was roughly 6,000 before it was renovated ten years ago; wikipedia says it's 10,000 now but doesn't cite any sources. Regardless, the facility is almost certainly big enough and would in a worst-case scenario only need a minor upgrade to qualify.

[Complete Homer]

On 25/10/2016 at 4:12 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

22 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

You need investors to make something like this fly and southern Ontario is where you are probably more likely to find rich first generation immigrants that see soccer as a labour of love rather than a long term investment opportunity. Think Frank Stronach (although he does it in Austria rather than Canada) or the Maccabi Tel Aviv guy in the present day on that or the owner of the Toronto Olympians for those that have been following Canadian soccer for a long time. Has Duane Rollins ever unequivocally stated that any city outside the Golden Horseshoe definitely has an investor in place rather than using weasel words like "very likely"? The BC and Quebec angle always seems very vague, and the Prairies stuff seems to date back to the NASL/CSL scenario of two years ago and has never seemed to generate any rumours emanating from the actual cites that are said to be involved. In recent decades especially pre-MLS, the Toronto soccer community has often been in a little bubble where they assumed they set the agenda for the whole province/country in a centre of the universe sort of way with stuff like the CPSL, while everybody else did their own thing and paid very little attention to them.

 

On 25/10/2016 at 3:54 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Phone glitch 

When asked yesterday what was most garaunteed team outside of Hamilton, he replied "Calgary and Winnipeg," so yeah, he's been pretty solid about teams outside of the golden horseshoe.  

[Complete Homer]

7 minutes ago, Zem said:

Not true actually, King George V Park is soccer-specific and could seat enough to meet the requirements suggested by Rollins. I'm not sure exactly what the rated capacity is now, I believe it was roughly 6,000 before it was renovated ten years ago; wikipedia says it's 10,000 now but doesn't cite any sources. Regardless, the facility is almost certainly big enough and would in a worst-case scenario only need a minor upgrade to qualify.

I think for St. John's and Moncton we'd more or less be waiting until one of the Irvings died and someone inheriting a chunk of their 10 billion dollar empire liked soccer (kind of like J. Saputo). If a place like Edmonton is a hellhole for travel expenses, an eastern team would be even worse, so I think the "philanthropist-type" owner is needed. No one else would take the risk IMO 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

23 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

When asked yesterday what was most garaunteed team outside of Hamilton, he replied "Calgary and Winnipeg," so yeah, he's been pretty solid about teams outside of the golden horseshoe.  

This is what he actually responded to:

 

[Levi Oakey]

For you @BringBackTheBlizzard I promise, when the league is announced, to hold my Winnipeg Jersey and stand in front of Winnipeg city hall.

I also imagine you will still think that Duane dreamed this up or Guillermo somehow got his mad designs printed and that things are still not happening. 

[Ansem]

52 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

I think for St. John's and Moncton we'd more or less be waiting until one of the Irvings died and someone inheriting a chunk of their 10 billion dollar empire liked soccer (kind of like J. Saputo). If a place like Edmonton is a hellhole for travel expenses, an eastern team would be even worse, so I think the "philanthropist-type" owner is needed. No one else would take the risk IMO 

St John's Nlfd

• Metro population was: 196k + in 2011 and 214k in 2015
• Ethnic origin (can be more than one): 45% English origin, 41% Canadian, 31% Irish, 4.6% French, 2.1% German
• Economy: ExxonMobil Canada is headquartered in St. John's and companies such as Chevron, Husky Energy, Suncor Energy and Statoil have major regional operations in the city.  The economy has been growing quickly in recent years. In both 2010 and 2011, the metro area's gross domestic product (GDP) led 27 other metropolitan areas in the country, according to the Conference Board of Canada, recording growth of 6.6 per cent and 5.8 per cent respectively. At $52,000 the city's per capita GDP is the second highest out of all major Canadian cities. Economic forecasts suggest that the city will continue its strong economic growth in the coming years not only in the "oceanic" industries mentioned above, but also in tourism and new home construction as the population continues to grow. In May 2011, the city's unemployment rate fell to 5.6 per cent, the second lowest unemployment rate for a major city in Canada. The civil service which is supported by the federal, provincial and municipal governments has been the key to the expansion of the city's labour force and to the stability of its economy, which supports a sizable retail, service and business sector. The provincial government is the largest employer in the city, followed by Memorial University.
• Sport Scene: There's nothing in the summer, CPL would be unopposed and could thrive with rivalries with Halifax and Moncton. 

If anything, in terms of demographics and economy, St John's is more solid than Moncton. They seem closer to their English-Irish roots than even Canadian roots, so looking good for soccer.

 

Moncton, NB

• Metro population was: 135k + in 2011 and 148k in 2015
• Economy: 1.6 million people living within a three-hour drive of the city. Moncton has garnered national attention because of the strength of its economy. The local unemployment rate averages around 6%, which is below the national average. In 2004 Canadian Business Magazine named it "The best city for business in Canada", and in 2007 FDi magazine named it the fifth most business friendly small-sized city in North America. The insurance, information technology, educational, and health care sectors also are major factors in the local economy with the city's two hospitals alone employing over five thousand people. A number of nationally or regionally prominent corporations have their head offices in Moncton including Atlantic Lottery Corporation, Assumption Life Insurance, Medavie Blue Cross Insurance, Armour Transportation Systems and Major Drilling Group International. Moncton also has federal public service employment, with regional head offices for Corrections Canada, Transport Canada, the Gulf Fisheries Centre and the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency.  Several arms of the Irving corporation have their head offices and/or major operations in greater Moncton.
• Sport Scene: There's nothing in the summer except minor leagues, CPL would be unopposed as a major league and could thrive with rivalries with Quebec City (Moncton being a bilingual City), Halifax and St Jonh's. Moncton always drew big crowds for international competitions.

1.6 Millions people within 3 hour drive of Moncton(traffic shouldn't be an issue) is the key figure here as the 148k Metro population can be misleading. As you can see, there's a strong corporate presence in the are, same for St John's

While most people here and out of the forum use our preconceived notion and opinions of the Maritimes, investors will use all those stats to further their decisions. They might not be as populous as other provinces but fans capacity to spend on soccer is the least of the worries. It will be to get corporations involved and get people to massively support their teams, hence 2-3 teams in the maritimes would greatly help achieve that.

A lot falls on the success of Moncton to dictate the expansion in the Maritimes. A resounding success will convince investors at taking a look at Halifax (#1 in the Maritimes and oil rich St John's).

Ideally like I always said, it will be cheaper to have teams in every provinces as you can build a schedule based on a geographic where teams can rotate making the flights shorter and less expensive instead of flying all over the place.

As for cities between Quebec City and Hamilton, Via Rail should decreased travel costs significantly.

 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

22 minutes ago, Levi Oakey said:

@BringBackTheBlizzardI also imagine you will still think that Duane dreamed this up or Guillermo somehow got his mad designs printed and that things are still not happening. 

I have no idea how you reached that conclusion and I am not sure how this adds anything to the thread. It has been obvious all along that the main source whether directly or second hand was almost certainly John McGrane given he was on record about wanting a Canadian Premier League for many years and is known to be working with the Ticats on pro soccer. The issue has been whether the material he has been fed should have been questioned a bit more strenuously rather than being repeated uncritically in a cheerleader sort of way. It's quite telling that mainstream media journalists who would be expected to do sort of thing by their newspaper have steered well clear of this story for the most part.

[Complete Homer]

30 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

This is what he actually responded to:

 

OK, well you are starting to reach quite far when you begin taking issue with his exact wording regarding "is" and "is very probable." 

Your argument (which I understand is still "CPL will never happen/everyone involved is lying or misguided/ the CSA has doomed us all to the fiery depths of mediocrity by failing to put our future in the hands of the American 2nd/3rd division") is based on increasingly smaller gaps in information. 

Really, I have to ask, will you give it up at the announcement? Or are you planning to become the resident CPL skeptic and take potshots whenever something doesn't quite work out as expected for the league?