Canadian Premier League

[Complete Homer]

4 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

I have no idea how you reached that conclusion and I am not sure how this adds anything to the thread. It has been obvious all along that the main source whether directly or second hand was almost certainly John McGrane given he was on record about wanting a Canadian Premier League for many years and is known to be working with the Ticats on pro soccer. The issue has been whether the material he has been fed should have been questioned a bit more strenuously rather than being repeated uncritically in a cheerleader sort of way. It's quite telling that mainstream media journalists who would be expected to do sort of thing by their newspaper have steered well clear of this story for the most part.

"obvious"

[Complete Homer]

18 minutes ago, Ansem said:

St John's Nlfd

• Metro population was: 196k + in 2011 and 214k in 2015
• Ethnic origin (can be more than one): 45% English origin, 41% Canadian, 31% Irish, 4.6% French, 2.1% German
• Economy: ExxonMobil Canada is headquartered in St. John's and companies such as Chevron, Husky Energy, Suncor Energy and Statoil have major regional operations in the city.  The economy has been growing quickly in recent years. In both 2010 and 2011, the metro area's gross domestic product (GDP) led 27 other metropolitan areas in the country, according to the Conference Board of Canada, recording growth of 6.6 per cent and 5.8 per cent respectively. At $52,000 the city's per capita GDP is the second highest out of all major Canadian cities. Economic forecasts suggest that the city will continue its strong economic growth in the coming years not only in the "oceanic" industries mentioned above, but also in tourism and new home construction as the population continues to grow. In May 2011, the city's unemployment rate fell to 5.6 per cent, the second lowest unemployment rate for a major city in Canada. The civil service which is supported by the federal, provincial and municipal governments has been the key to the expansion of the city's labour force and to the stability of its economy, which supports a sizable retail, service and business sector. The provincial government is the largest employer in the city, followed by Memorial University.
• Sport Scene: There's nothing in the summer, CPL would be unopposed and could thrive with rivalries with Halifax and Moncton. 

If anything, in terms of demographics and economy, St John's is more solid than Moncton. They seem closer to their English-Irish roots than even Canadian roots, so looking good for soccer.

 

Moncton, NB

• Metro population was: 135k + in 2011 and 148k in 2015
• Economy: 1.6 million people living within a three-hour drive of the city. Moncton has garnered national attention because of the strength of its economy. The local unemployment rate averages around 6%, which is below the national average. In 2004 Canadian Business Magazine named it "The best city for business in Canada", and in 2007 FDi magazine named it the fifth most business friendly small-sized city in North America. The insurance, information technology, educational, and health care sectors also are major factors in the local economy with the city's two hospitals alone employing over five thousand people. A number of nationally or regionally prominent corporations have their head offices in Moncton including Atlantic Lottery Corporation, Assumption Life Insurance, Medavie Blue Cross Insurance, Armour Transportation Systems and Major Drilling Group International. Moncton also has federal public service employment, with regional head offices for Corrections Canada, Transport Canada, the Gulf Fisheries Centre and the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency.  Several arms of the Irving corporation have their head offices and/or major operations in greater Moncton.
• Sport Scene: There's nothing in the summer except minor leagues, CPL would be unopposed as a major league and could thrive with rivalries with Quebec City (Moncton being a bilingual City), Halifax and St Jonh's. Moncton always drew big crowds for international competitions.

1.6 Millions people within 3 hour drive of Moncton(traffic shouldn't be an issue) is the key figure here as the 148k Metro population can be misleading. As you can see, there's a strong corporate presence in the are, same for St John's

While most people here and out of the forum use our preconceived notion and opinions of the Maritimes, investors will use all those stats to further their decisions. They might not be as populous as other provinces but fans capacity to spend on soccer is the least of the worries. It will be to get corporations involved and get people to massively support their teams, hence 2-3 teams in the maritimes would greatly help achieve that.

A lot falls on the success of Moncton to dictate the expansion in the Maritimes. A resounding success will convince investors at taking a look at Halifax (#1 in the Maritimes and oil rich St John's).

Ideally like I always said, it will be cheaper to have teams in every provinces as you can build a schedule based on a geographic where teams can rotate making the flights shorter and less expensive instead of flying all over the place.

As for cities between Quebec City and Hamilton, Via Rail should decreased travel costs significantly.

 

I'm not arguing Moncton vs St. John's. My only point is that it is probably the furthest stretch of the markets regularly discussed (travel time, lack of obvious owners, no real concentration of pro sports to provide a an exemplar). 

The east is untapped. I think whether or not we'll eventually see a team out there is whether or not an owner perceives that there is good reason why it is untapped

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

1 minute ago, Complete Homer said:

OK, well you are starting to reach quite far when you begin taking issue with his exact wording regarding "is" and "is very probable." 

Not when my point was whether he has ever unequivocably stated that an investor is actually in place and ready to go anywhere outside the Golden Horseshoe. He is doing that for Toronto repeatedly and unequivocably at the moment, but not for other cities from what I have seen. Have I missed something? If somebody is in place and ready to go In Winnipeg, why are there no stories in Winnipeg newspapers like the ones that have appeared in Hamilton? Why are there no surveys being sent out to possible fans by the local soccer association similar to the Hamilton scenario? Why is nobody in the Winnipeg soccer community posting about what they heard last week on the grapevine from the would be owner's cousin's barber etc. 2018 is not that far away in terms of the logistics of a league launch.

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Complete Homer said:

I'm not arguing Moncton vs St. John's. My only point is that it is probably the furthest stretch of the markets regularly discussed (travel time, lack of obvious owners, no real concentration of pro sports to provide a an exemplar). 

The east is untapped. I think whether or not we'll eventually see a team out there is whether or not an owner perceives that there is good reason why it is untapped

A lot will falls on the success of Moncton to dictate the expansion in the Maritimes. A resounding success will convince investors at taking a look at Halifax (#1 in the Maritimes and oil rich St John's).

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

If somebody is in place and ready to go In Winnipeg, why are there no stories in Winnipeg newspapers like the ones that have appeared in Hamilton? Why are there no surveys being sent out to possible fans by the local soccer association similar to the Hamilton scenario? Why is nobody in the Winnipeg soccer community posting about what they heard last week on the grapevine from the would be owner's cousin's barber etc. 2018 is not that far away in terms of the logistics of a league launch.

Legal reasons. That's all. They are wrapping up the whole legal side part of the league which is the most complex part of the process.

The rest can be done within 2017

[Rheo]

I worry about the Maritimes supporting it.  You would think that the CFL would of gone there if they thought it could make a go of it.  Don't get me wrong I would love it to be there just not sure.

Please note this is the my hunch based on assuming the CFL would do a competent study of the issue and not pursuing it lol

[Complete Homer]

Just now, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Not when my point was whether he has ever unequivocably stated that an investor is actually in place and ready to go anywhere outside the Golden Horseshoe. He is doing that for Toronto repeatedly and unequivocably at the moment, but not for other cities from what I have seen. Have I missed something? If somebody is in place and ready to go In Winnipeg, why are there no stories in Winnipeg newspapers like the ones that have appeared in Hamilton? Why are there no surveys being sent out to possible fans by the local soccer association similar to the Hamilton scenario? Why is nobody in the Winnipeg soccer community posting about what they heard last week on the grapevine from the would be owner's cousin's barber etc. 2018 is not that far away in terms of the logistics of a league launch.

As Montagliani said, they want to have the legal framework in place before any announcement, and that non-disclosure agreements are in place. The coop had already flown for Hamilton, but it is entirely plausible that the league wants to retain control of the flow of information so that they can shape the story as they see fit. Once the other cities go public, that becomes much more difficult. 

[matty]

28 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It's quite telling that mainstream media journalists who would be expected to do sort of thing by their newspaper have steered well clear of this story for the most part.

I'm pretty sure Postmedia, who run the most read soccer articles in the nation, have a sponsorship deal in place with Toronto FC (at least) so it is possible they're avoiding it for said reason.

Possibly the most read soccer writer in the country (who works for Postmedia) is an MLSE mouth piece that looks down on the CPL idea has also reported something is in the works (his version is different from the version many here want and seems to be taken from MSLE's idea of the league), so have a few of his Postmedia colleagues, all of whom seem to be against it.

CBC has reported a few times on the story with the McGrane city hall talk and the Hamilton trademark.

Several commentators on TSN have addressed the rumours and have even asked Don Garber about it.

Also Roughriders play-by-play guy and a former writer with MLSsoccer.com talked about it as if it was a happening.

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, Rheo said:

I worry about the Maritimes supporting it.  You would think that the CFL would of gone there if they thought it could make a go of it.  Don't get me wrong I would love it to be there just not sure.

Please note this is the my hunch based on assuming the CFL would do a competent study of the issue and not pursuing it lol

I wouldn't put the CFL as the best example of good managing. Quebec City being a football crazy market on the university side (no joke, they wanted to be in the NCAA at some point) have ZERO interest in CFL. They are the right market size, economy and a rivalry with Montreal would have been instant classic and sellouts. Never expanding to Quebec will always remain their biggest failure.

 

CFL has done poorly on the marketing side and  had poor vision for a very long time. CFL did it to themselves

[Rheo]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

I wouldn't put the CFL as the best example. Quebec City being a football crazy market on the university side (no joke, they wanted to be in the NCAA at some point) have ZERO interest in CFL.

CFL has done poorly on the marketing side for a very long time.

Yeah I know the CFL isn't the best, that's why I added the disclaimer at the end lol

[Complete Homer]

Just now, Rheo said:

I worry about the Maritimes supporting it.  You would think that the CFL would of gone there if they thought it could make a go of it.  Don't get me wrong I would love it to be there just not sure.

Please note this is the my hunch based on assuming the CFL would do a competent study of the issue and not pursuing it lol

I think a Moncton team could work similar to the Regina team - it would be the only game in town and draw from several cities. 

The CFL has talked about a Moncton team before, but there seems to be a paucity of self-made multimillionaire from Moncton that would take the risk to set up shop.

At the end of the day, most soccer clubs are owned by a rich guy who wanted a vanity piece and just wants to break even. No one will make money hand over fist in the CPL, so the only people willing to take the risk are established sports corporations who are confident in their market (CSEC, True North, etc),  rich guys who want to bring something cool to their home town (Young, probably the Toronto owner, Hunt/Pugh via OSEG, etc), or apparently foreign clubs looking for a cheap way to expand into the north American market. Who other than the Irving family could fill that role in the Maritimes? 

[tovan1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadians_by_net_worth

The Irving, McCain and Sobey families have billions.  Ron Joyce also seems to have strong connections to the Maritimes.

This older article from 2011 also lists a few other wealthy individuals and families.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/19630-sobeys-risley-bragg-and-jodreys-on-canada’s-100-wealthiest-list

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Just now, Complete Homer said:

As Montagliani said, they want to have the legal framework in place before any announcement, and that non-disclosure agreements are in place. The coop had already flown for Hamilton, but it is entirely plausible that the league wants to retain control of the flow of information so that they can shape the story as they see fit. Once the other cities go public, that becomes much more difficult. 

I followed the launch of MLS back when rec.sport.soccer and mailing lists were where things were at in internet terms and lots of details were getting out about what was happening in the different cities, because people talk and rumours start. I'm comparing what is unfolding now with CPL to stuff like that and I find the comparitive silence on this bizarre given it's now usually much easier to find inside information about North American soccer because of how the internet has expanded than it was back then. Back in the early to mid-90s, the FAN 590 covered the Toronto angle (there could have been a team at the Skydome when it launched, MLS were open to the concept) through Dale Barnes and the International Sports Report after the Blizzard had gone into their final death spiral (they had been banking on the APSL getting D1 status rather than MLS), and there would be news about when Alan Rothenburg had been in Toronto to meet people, an interview with Joey Saputo explaining why the Impact preferred the APSL to MLS etc. I find it strange that the Fath brothers, for example, have never felt a need to even address this subject in an Edmonton context in contrast with that.

[Levi Oakey]

Different times. Also, Edmonton has commented to Steve Sandor. Repeatedly. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Has there ever been a directly attributed quote? Why is this not being raised when the Edmonton Sun does a long story about FC Edmonton's future as happened a few months back? Mainstream journalists are not taking the issue seriously and that would be very odd if it's just around the corner.

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

I followed the launch of MLS back when rec.sport.soccer and mailing lists were where things were at in internet terms and lots of details were getting out about what was happening in the different cities, because people talk and rumours start. I'm comparing what is unfolding now with CPL to stuff like that and I find the comparitive silence on this bizarre given it's now usually much easier to find inside information about North American soccer because of how the internet has expanded than it was back then. Back in the early to mid-90s, the FAN 590 covered the Toronto angle (there could have been a team at the Skydome when it launched, MLS were open to the concept) through Dale Barnes and the International Sports Report after the Blizzard had gone into their final death spiral (they had been banking on the APSL getting D1 status rather than MLS), and there would be news about when Alan Rothenburg had been in Toronto to meet people, an interview with Joey Saputo explaining why the Impact preferred the APSL to MLS etc. I find it strange that the Fath brothers, for example, have never felt a need to even address this subject in an Edmonton context in contrast with that.

I wouldn't use MLS as the golden standard of management, PR and marketing. That's pretty recent under the Gerber administration. Before Beckham came to LA, MLS was a comical joke and embarrassment of a league with teams coming and go and ridiculous gimmicks and change of rules. The teams that stayed in the league the entire time are now getting rewarded by their patience with the drastic increase of their team's value versus the initial investment they made when they started the whole thing.

CPL is doing it right. They have obviously learned what NOT to do when starting a league and I'm glad that it's nowhere near similar to MLS start. You're not hearing anything about it because the legal side of it isn't finalized yet. They will make sure that the initial owners are all in and CANNOT just bail after buyers remorse.

Imagine they would have announced the cities and ownership a year ago... What kind of message are you sending the fans you're trying to win over and convince that you're a Division 1 league if within those 2 years, owners would be withdrawing from the league & even going public with their criticism as bargaining chips??? Rightfully so, CPL wouldn't be taken seriously and they wouldn't draw a fly to their matches, and good luck on TV contracts.

Dude, I get it, you're skeptical and that's fine. You should be happy about the current process. Have a drink and try some patience

[matty]

I just wanna say something unpopular because talk is going wild again. They're going to be conservative with their teams so no we will not see KW, a second Maritimes team (if there is even one), two teams in Manitoba, Saskatchewan or B.C.. If this league happens it's gonna stick to traditional Canadian markets.

[Levi Oakey]

Don't make me cry @matty! I can dream. KW is the 10th largest city in Canada and has literally no professional teams to speak of. We are bidding on the Canada 2021 games and the bid does include some new stadium refurbs and builds. Also, Waterloo Region is approximately 559,000 people. I could see it work like a Saskatchewan team. Where it draws all of the locals who don't like Toronto (there are many). It is, understandably, a pipe dream.

[matty]

16 minutes ago, Levi Oakey said:

Don't make me cry @matty! I can dream. KW is the 10th largest city in Canada and has literally no professional teams to speak of. We are bidding on the Canada 2021 games and the bid does include some new stadium refurbs and builds. Also, Waterloo Region is approximately 559,000 people. I could see it work like a Saskatchewan team. Where it draws all of the locals who don't like Toronto (there are many). It is, understandably, a pipe dream.

*hugs* i'm sorry but, as you said, it's a pipe dream.

they are likely to embrace some non-tradional markets (like moncton) but those will be very few.

now i will say this for kw, london, windsor, kingston, ect. if someone like celtic is game to start a team in ontario (despite not being in with gta, hamilton or ottawa) then yea there will be a cpl club there.

[Levi Oakey]

And to be fair, Barry Maclean has direct connections to Stoke City and other big euro clubs. But, who knows. 

[Complete Homer]

Let's say, with some level of optimism, that CPL is still going strong in 2030, not even 15 years away. 

The KWC TriCity is growing rapidly and projected to have a population of 750 thousand by 2030, will have efficient light rail transit comparable to Calgary's current system, and the region is expected to look much more like a single city than 3 nearby cities. Nearby Guelph is also growing rapidly, and the team has nearby rivals available in Toronto and Hamilton.  

To me, when we talk an expansion, say 5 years post launch, if the league is doing well, KWC is on the list. Launch? No way. 2020? Probably not. But some time between now and 2030, I think it becomes a viable option. 

[matty]

WEIRD THOUGHT JUST POPPED INTO MY HEAD RELATING TO THE WELL KNOWN EURO CLUB

SOUTHAMPTON!

Their chair, Ralph Krueger, was born in Winnipeg and has ties to Canadian athletics (he coached the Oilers). It's possible that during the World Cup (while he was coaching Team Europe) he spoke with someone who mentioned the league and it interested him and he brought it to Southampton and it sparked their interest too.

[Complete Homer]

20 minutes ago, matty said:

WEIRD THOUGHT JUST POPPED INTO MY HEAD RELATING TO THE WELL KNOWN EURO CLUB

SOUTHAMPTON!

Their chair, Ralph Krueger, was born in Winnipeg and has ties to Canadian athletics (he coached the Oilers). It's possible that during the World Cup (while he was coaching Team Europe) he spoke with someone who mentioned the league and it interested him and he brought it to Southampton and it sparked their interest too.

Had to google him. What a bizarre life trajectory that guy has had. Born in Winnipeg and lived in Canada until his early 20s, played pro hockey in europe, coached pro hockey...switched to soccer in 2014, became director of Southampton and subsequently its chairman. I would love to see how that happened.

Good thought, it's very plausible IMO. 

[Rheo]

1 minute ago, Complete Homer said:

Had to google him. What a bizarre life trajectory that guy has had. Born in Winnipeg and lived in Canada until his early 20s, played pro hockey in europe, coached pro hockey...switched to soccer in 2014, became director of Southampton and subsequently its chairman. I would love to see how that happened.

Good thought, it's very plausible IMO. 

I heard him interviewed on a pod within the last year and it was really interesting story (I want to say Men With Blazers but could be wrong)  Definitely worth checking out

[matty]

2 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Had to google him. What a bizarre life trajectory that guy has had. Born in Winnipeg and lived in Canada until his early 20s, played pro hockey in europe, coached pro hockey...switched to soccer in 2014, became director of Southampton and subsequently its chairman. I would love to see how that happened.

Good thought, it's very plausible IMO. 

of all the reaches people have made about the euro tea element, i think this is one of the two most reasonable (other being celtic)