BREAKING NEWS: C-League news and what cities will be involved

[BuzzAndSting]

Interesting podcast.  It seems a bit less nebulous than before.

 

To answer Soccerpro's question about where the money is coming from- The CFL really knows how to leverage corporate support in Canada.  The big money for the league comes from Bob Young, some NHL owners, other CFL owners and Bell.

 

Besides Bell, the CFL has national advertising deals with some big companies:  Tim Hortons, GM, Nissan, Purolator, Safeway, Wendy's, Lowe's, Mark's Work Wearhouse and Shaw plus each team has local sponsors. 

 

Extending these deals to a new league and it's not unreasonable to think each team could get $1 million of national and local sponsorships.  Throw in a broadcast deal ($5 million per year or $0.5 million per team)  plus tickets, concessions in an 32 game season. 

 

5,000 fans x 16 games x $25 per ticket is about $2 million in gate receipts.

 

It's not that hard to come up with team budgets of $4 million and player budgets of $1.5 million if the league is well marketed with good sponsorships.  Certainly that level of corporate support doesn't exist in the NASL and that's really the big difference between the CFL operating a league in Canada with each game broadcasted and actual sponsors.

 

Also that $1.5 million player budget is going to be enough to field fully professional teams.  On a 24 player roster with a minimum salary of $40k each team is going to break out to probably 10 guys making the league min, 7 guys making $60k, 5 guys making $90k and maybe 2 guys making $110k.  If you think about that for a minute you'll realize it's going to be competitive with the mid to lower end of MLS and that's enough money to repatriate a bunch of guys from Europe and gut our overseas player pool. 

 

Also the fringe or younger MLS players would come to a C-League team making the same money and become starters every single week.  That would make a massive difference to Canadian soccer.

Great points and well written.

[lazlo_80]

Agreed. Very well said.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Guys, I'm not trying to crap on people who are fans of the NASL as a league but the implication here that the NASL is some shining beacon of professional league management is ridiculous.

 

The league literally has zero brand recognition in Canada outside of diehards in Edmenton and Ottawa, as well us on this message board.

 

There was a great article a while back about how the league did at one point try to take a crack at competing with the MLS by grabbing the cosmos and such 4-5 years ago but since then the league has fallen back into being a D2 level league, and one that is seen more and more as a rogue league to MLS and USL fans—two leagues that seem to have a very specific strategy on how they will one day run all the US professional levels of soccer. It's basically an open secret at this point that USL and MLS are one and the same, and the USL brand will likely break off into D2 and D3 divisions, trying to force NASL out of the situation. Regardless of your opinion of the way MLS and USL operate, it's getting tougher and tougher to see this ending well for the NASL

 

The NASL growth strategy lately has been basically reactionary to what MLS and USL does. Going into Miami, while may be a nice story in the short term, will make this league look even more small time if they play in a football stadium beside a newly built Miami MLS stadium. Then they put a team in the all important puerto rico market, ensuring 50% of the league basically plays in the south east.

 

With all of that facing the NASL, why would any investor at the level of say a Bob Young, look at that as a more "stable" option than building a league from scratch in your own mold? 

 

Infrastructure? most of the proposed markets in Canada will have facilities on par if not better than what you see in NASL.

 

Marketing? Again, NASL has zero brand recognition in Canada so there would be no point in fighting to keep that league title. No one outside a few diehards cares about playing the San Antonio scorpions.

 

Sponsorship? Being able to go to Canadian companies to become "the official sponsor of the canadian league" is alot more powerful than going to them to try and get them to sponsor the NASL. This is another place they would lose money by trying to be a part of the NASL. 

 

Media? Why would the Canadian investors want to deal with a corrupt company like Traffic to negotiate and profit from their television/radio deals, when they already have a better relationship with the big Canadian media players given their CFL ties? I'd argue this is one of the juiciest reasons for starting a new league, you can create a SUM/Traffic like company on your own and start profiting from C-league and Canadian team TV contracts. NASL's national coverage is joke, if you even get these games on TSN 5 you're in better shape than anything NASL is providing you.

 

League Management? These guys already have experience with a stable league in the CFL, they can hire their own soccer guys and use their own expertise.

 

It would be different if the NASL had some big TV contract that payed all their teams cash, or they shared big franchise fees with all their teams, but what is in it for a Canadian team right now? I see zero reason why NASL is a better option for starting a league then just doing it from scratch. 

This is all true, although I don't think its really fair to compare it to the CFL, since thats been around for ages.  I think in principle everything you said is correct, but it also assumes that people will just jump on board right away.  The nice thing about NASL is not that its a particularly great league, Its that it's a functioning league.  Teams entering are entering a league that is (more or less) stable, and it allows individual teams to build up fanbases gradually, as opposed to having to have a big fan base immediately.  Perhaps I'm wrong, but I feel like it may take time for fans to jump on board as there are quite a few fans of other leagues who would not take it seriously right away(and these people are the people who's opinions matter - market mavens, google it).  Like someone else said, why not wait until we have 4 or 5 stable canadian franchises before attempting to launch this league(and then everything you said applies, and we have a little less risk), that just seems far more sensible to me.  

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Is anyone here interested in joining facebook supporters groups for either hamilton or the maritimes?

[Fussball_eh]

I'll support one in the Maritimes, although I live in Ottawa

[baulderdash77]

One other thing- player pool size.

 

Let's say that the new rules match the foreign player rules in the Russian Premier League- 10 foreigners and only 5 on the pitch at a time.  BTW they define domestics as players who are eligible for the National Team.  That means that in an 8 team league there would be 112 domestic player spots.  So where would those players come from?

 

Here's our professional player pool composition (From Canada abroad thread):

MLS - 19

NASL- 23

USL- 67

Germany- 21

England - 10

Norway - 6

Finland - 5

Scotland - 5

Other Europe - 35

Asia - 10

Central & South America - 8

Total : 209

 

Lots of those players are burried pretty deep down the ladder.  A couple MLS players, most of the NASL player and some of the USL players would make their way over to the league.  Let's say 45 out of 109 of those players are better off in the C-League

 

Then of our 100 (exactly!) players outside of Canada and the US there's only about 10-15 players who are playing at a decent level.  It's likely that around half of them could be convinced to come back.

 

The rest of the gap would have to be filled from PQSL, L1O and USL PDL players if not from pirating more USL players from the MLS teams. 

 

Admittedly with only a pro player pool of 209 players concentrating 112 of them in a single league is a pretty big recruiting task but it's possible.

[DigzTFC]

I would support a Halifax team for sure.

[jpg75]

Where is the 24 player roster coming from? Is that what Rollins says in the podcast?

[baulderdash77]

No it's just pretty much just a number.   The min roster size in any league I've seen is 20 and 30 or 28 seems to be the maximum.  In Russia the max roster size is 25.  In NASL it's 20.  For MLS there's special salary rules for roster spots 1-20, 21-24 and 25-30.  I just pulled 24 because it's the size you need to have full squad practices plus a couple injuries and a 3rd keeper.

[jpg75]

Ok. I would think they would go with 20 man Sr. rosters for the cap - like MLS - and have a small development roster for young players, hopefully Cdn.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Okay, well anyone who does send me a friend request on facebook.  I'm actually in the Yukon right now, but generally in Edmonton, but I feel like we could do quite a bit via social media, and then just hand it off to someone ready and willing in both halifax and hamilton(the two I've started so far).  This seems like the only way this C-league thing works is if we do some of the dirty work.  

Guillermo Del Quarto, add me.

[rob.notenboom]

Okay, well anyone who does send me a friend request on facebook. I'm actually in the Yukon right now, but generally in Edmonton, but I feel like we could do quite a bit via social media, and then just hand it off to someone ready and willing in both halifax and hamilton(the two I've started so far). This seems like the only way this C-league thing works is if we do some of the dirty work.

Guillermo Del Quarto, add me.

There is already a Hamilton group meeting -

http://www.thevoyageurs.org/index.php?/topic/27829-hamilton-nasl-supporters-meet-up/

[the Humberlands]

...Teams entering NASL are entering a league that is (more or less) stable, and it allows individual teams to build up fanbases gradually, as opposed to having to have a big fan base immediately.  Perhaps I'm wrong, but I feel like it may take time for fans to jump on board as there are quite a few fans of other leagues who would not take it seriously right away(and these people are the people who's opinions matter - market mavens, google it).  Like someone else said, why not wait until we have 4 or 5 stable canadian franchises before attempting to launch this league(and then everything you said applies, and we have a little less risk), that just seems far more sensible to me.  

 

If NASL is more or less stable, why not just go with it on our own, especially if it's backed up financially and marketed properly. I'd say it could be more stable than NASL in no time. No team would be looking to MLS to make a jump, which is what NASL worries about. Plus NASL is trying to complete with MLS markets, though they're doing fairly well in Florida. 

 

While all skeptical points are valid, if this is done right, right the Canadian ship now, not later. Footy is on the up here.

[the Humberlands]

Interesting podcast.  It seems a bit less nebulous than before.

 

To answer Soccerpro's question about where the money is coming from- The CFL really knows how to leverage corporate support in Canada.  The big money for the league comes from Bob Young, some NHL owners, other CFL owners and Bell.

 

Besides Bell, the CFL has national advertising deals with some big companies:  Tim Hortons, GM, Nissan, Purolator, Safeway, Wendy's, Lowe's, Mark's Work Wearhouse and Shaw plus each team has local sponsors. 

 

Extending these deals to a new league and it's not unreasonable to think each team could get $1 million of national and local sponsorships.  Throw in a broadcast deal ($5 million per year or $0.5 million per team)  plus tickets, concessions in an 32 game season. 

 

5,000 fans x 16 games x $25 per ticket is about $2 million in gate receipts.

 

It's not that hard to come up with team budgets of $4 million and player budgets of $1.5 million if the league is well marketed with good sponsorships.  Certainly that level of corporate support doesn't exist in the NASL and that's really the big difference between the CFL operating a league in Canada with each game broadcasted and actual sponsors.

 

Also that $1.5 million player budget is going to be enough to field fully professional teams.  On a 24 player roster with a minimum salary of $40k each team is going to break out to probably 10 guys making the league min, 7 guys making $60k, 5 guys making $90k and maybe 2 guys making $110k.  If you think about that for a minute you'll realize it's going to be competitive with the mid to lower end of MLS and that's enough money to repatriate a bunch of guys from Europe and gut our overseas player pool. 

 

Also the fringe or younger MLS players would come to a C-League team making the same money and become starters every single week.  That would make a massive difference to Canadian soccer.

 

Liking all these points!

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Ah nice.  Thanks for the link.  I'll try and get in touch with them.

[the Humberlands]

"- FC Edmonton will definitely not be a part of the new league. Apparently they are two invested in NASL at this point. Though reading between the lines it sounds like Ottawa Fury will be a part of it.

 

 

- One reason FC Edmonton would not be joining is because the proposed salary budget is actually higher than what FC Edmonton currently has or wants to pay. Apparently salary would be similar to MLS when TFC joined the league in 2008 (1.5 Million or so)"

 

 

 

FC Edmonton will eventually jump onboard a C-League if it's run well and has been doing well. It only makes sense from a geographical (ie. travel cost) point of view. And if the C-League quality is similar to NASL or better, it'll make even more sense.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Regardless, I don't really care which happens, just that we get more canadian teams.  I guess theres a supporters group happening in Hamilton(thanks for the link rob.notenboom).  Is there one going on yet for the Maritimes?  Or just any other ones in general?

[madmonte]

Guillermo just so you know, the average poster on here is all about what you are trying to do as well.  Definitely a case of preaching to the choir, coming here and telling us to support,(you can't convert the converted) but I love your enthusiasm.  Where are you based out of yourself? 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

To answer Soccerpro's question about where the money is coming from- The CFL really knows how to leverage corporate support in Canada.  The big money for the league comes from Bob Young, some NHL owners, other CFL owners and Bell.

 

Think only the first one can be confidently stated at this point, because there is tangible evidence for it in the shape of recent public announcements by the TiCats, and the rest is conjecture. Can remember an interview with John Pugh of the Ottawa Fury being mentioned on these threads as a litmus test for how serious this "C-League" scenario is, based on how Duane Rollins would broach the subject. Did that happen or is it still in the pipeline? Would be interesting to hear him clarify or expand on his recent not aware of anything concrete happening in other cities remark. 

[lazlo_80]

If the C-League is a go with the 8 markets stated and the fact it won't be a single entity system to try and force parity it'll be interesting to see which teams go for it out of the gates. My first guess:

 

Ottawa - they'll have a leg up on everyone else considering they're already a team in the NASL and doing well in that league

 

Calgary - The biggest market in the west outside of the MLS. Seems like it could be an obvious choice

 

Hamilton - just because of how much Bob Young has stated he wants to help Canadian soccer, it seems like he'd make a serious push at forming a good team.

[BradMack]

If the C-League is a go with the 8 markets stated and the fact it won't be a single entity system to try and force parity it'll be interesting to see which teams go for it out of the gates. My first guess:

 

Ottawa - they'll have a leg up on everyone else considering they're already a team in the NASL and doing well in that league

 

Calgary - The biggest market in the west outside of the MLS. Seems like it could be an obvious choice

 

Hamilton - just because of how much Bob Young has stated he wants to help Canadian soccer, it seems like he'd make a serious push at forming a good team.

 

I don't know how much of an advantage Ottawa would have. They would have to gut most of their roster based on the Canadian content quota that is apparently going to be in place. They really only have 4 Canadians who see significant time on the field. I think their biggest advantage would be knowing that they have a fanbase in place that allows them to spend money without the risk other owners might need to think about.

[BradMack]

Watching the Bundesliga on sportsnet one right now. Noticed Petro-Canada sponsors VFL Wolfsburg. Seeing as they're into football sponsorship already I'd be pretty disappointed if their logo didn't appear on a C-League kit. There must be other Canadian companies that are sponsoring teams in Europe, I wish we were a large enough group to put social pressure on them for not supporting local.

[lazlo_80]

I don't know how much of an advantage Ottawa would have. They would have to gut most of their roster based on the Canadian content quota that is apparently going to be in place. They really only have 4 Canadians who see significant time on the field. I think their biggest advantage would be knowing that they have a fanbase in place that allows them to spend money without the risk other owners might need to think about.

 

Would be interesting to see how MLS market teams come out of the gate too. In a way they kind of have to go for it right away to be relevant in that market.

[Keegan]

Watching the Bundesliga on sportsnet one right now. Noticed Petro-Canada sponsors VFL Wolfsburg. Seeing as they're into football sponsorship already I'd be pretty disappointed if their logo didn't appear on a C-League kit. There must be other Canadian companies that are sponsoring teams in Europe, I wish we were a large enough group to put social pressure on them for not supporting local.

 

Scotiabank is the official sponsor of CONCACAF so they would most likely pony up some $ and if they didn't it would be pretty disappointing although not surprising because they are obviously trying to make gains in the Caribbean and Central America.  

 

I believe Scotiabank was also the official sponsor of the Chile national team a couple years ago?  How cool would a Halifax team backed by them be?  

[Soccerpro]

Scotiabank is the official sponsor of CONCACAF so they would most likely pony up some $ and if they didn't it would be pretty disappointing although not surprising because they are obviously trying to make gains in the Caribbean and Central America.  

 

I believe Scotiabank was also the official sponsor of the Chile national team a couple years ago?  How cool would a Halifax team backed by them be?

I assure you that Scotia bank doesn't give a shit about a Nova Scotia.