BREAKING NEWS: C-League news and what cities will be involved

[ted]

If he REALLY wanted to go to a higher level, he could have done so in NASL, or asked the CSA for a USL exemption ...

No he could not. That is the whole point. The CSA controls who can and cannot participate in the NASL or USL. What part of that is unclear to you?

Campbell had investors lined up to be part of a move to a higher level. When it became clear that this was not going to be supported by the CSA, and thus not able to happen, the investors said something like, "sorry but we won't be involved without a move upwards" and he pulled the plug.

 

[Shway]

JDV just asked Vic at halftime of the PTL v Whitecaps game if their is a plan for a Canadian league (whats the time frame), and if MLS  teams are doing enough for Canadian development. IMO Vic indirectly just that this plan/idea is not happening in the near future. He wisely answered by saying there isn't a timeline (contrary to reports) and basically nothing is imminent. He also said that they (MLS clubs) are doing more than their fare share of developing the game and that they can't do it alone......however sounded like he was in favour of more NASL teams .....I wonder if the USL ban is going to get lifted. 

[TRM]

Thanks for the update Jahinho.

To me it makes no sense to compete with the 3 MLS teams in our 3 largest markets or not play in our 3 largest markets. More NASL teams would be a good thing. It will be interesting to see if they do anything with USL.

I still think a national futsal league is the best way to go. It could play over the winter months when MLS & NASL are not playing, it would have much lower costs due to rosters of 11 players, could use existing university infrastructures for 1k-2k indoor attendance, it would be in our 3 largest markets (in fact the D1/2 teams would probably put a team in to provide more playing dev time for their younger players).

[Dub Narcotic]

JDV just asked Vic at halftime of the PTL v Whitecaps game if their is a plan for a Canadian league (whats the time frame), and if MLS  teams are doing enough for Canadian development. IMO Vic indirectly just that this plan/idea is not happening in the near future. He wisely answered by saying there isn't a timeline (contrary to reports) and basically nothing is imminent. He also said that they (MLS clubs) are doing more than their fare share of developing the game and that they can't do it alone......however sounded like he was in favour of more NASL teams .....I wonder if the USL ban is going to get lifted. 

Wow, a reasonable answer that echoes what a lot of us have been saying. Time for Bob Young to step up and get Hamilton in NASL and the USL ban to be lifted.

[canucklefan]

I don't know why there's a USL ban, but If the CSA see it as an obstacle to get the C-League, I'm fine with it. I'm tired of the pro MLS people that are against a Canadian professional league. MLS in Canada is a great thing, but it must completed with the support a Canadian professional league. It should not be a competion against the 3 Canadian MLS clubs. 

Next CONCACAF pre-Olympic tournament, I hope we won't see a Canadian squad full of USL players vs a US side full of MLS regulars....

[Fussball_eh]

Thanks for the update Jahinho.

To me it makes no sense to compete with the 3 MLS teams in our 3 largest markets or not play in our 3 largest markets. More NASL teams would be a good thing. It will be interesting to see if they do anything with USL.

I still think a national futsal league is the best way to go. It could play over the winter months when MLS & NASL are not playing, it would have much lower costs due to rosters of 11 players, could use existing university infrastructures for 1k-2k indoor attendance, it would be in our 3 largest markets (in fact the D1/2 teams would probably put a team in to provide more playing dev time for their younger players).

Except there is zero public interest in Futsal in Canada. I am a huge soccer nut and I don't even care about Futsal, even though I think it can be valuable for youth player's development.

[Shway]

I don't know why there's a USL ban, but If the CSA see it as an obstacle to get the C-League, I'm fine with it. I'm tired of the pro MLS people that are against a Canadian professional league. MLS in Canada is a great thing, but it must completed with the support a Canadian professional league. It should not be a competion against the 3 Canadian MLS clubs. 

I am indifferent, because I don't know how you justify that. Canadians will not be fooled by the quality...... I think its pointless to have this C-League without the major market teams (TO,VAN,MTL), and no I don't mean to create new franchises to circumvent this issue either - it just won't work. My 10 year plan would consist of establishing 3 additional clubs in NASL(5) , and 5 in USL with top to bottom complete infrastructures (i.e. the CSA mandating that if you want a club in any league, they're must be a fully integrated academy). By 2026 the CSA establishes a mandate that states ALL teams irrespective of league, have to join the newly founded C-League consisting of pre-established teams and very minimal expansion teams.

 

I've stated this before but, limiting the amount of visible growing pains is the only way this league survives. And that only happens with having established teams.

[canucklefan]

I can tell you the same thing then. I don't know how you can justify your point since your 10 year plan is just speculation and nobody knows if it's good or not, if it's going to work or not.

[Shway]

True, very true. 

 

But would you agree that there is a thin line between this working and not working?

[DigzTFC]

I think the moratorium was to slow the expansion of PDL and CSL to make room League One Ontario and the Quebec High Performance League. 

On the slow growth through multiple leagues, I am torn because I understand the argument but I have one major issue with it.  How does one market teams without a television contract and intend to grow beyond gate revenue? I would find it very difficult to market any product to anyone without access to the most effective marketing channels.

For all of the bad stuff MLS does, it is a great marketer.  The clubs feel professional.  The clubs have professional facilities.  The broadcast are professional.  The merchandise is professional etc. 

In order for this to work, we need that level of professionalism regardless of the quality of play. 

I just don't think you get that with multiple leagues.

[Shway]

How much spare time do you have? Wanna make every C-League team logo? lol.

 

....Didn't want to hijack the "Hamilton NASL Supporters Meet Up" thread, but I started on a few.

 

Victoria FC - Return of the Highlanders 

Saskatchewan United

 

Windsor FC

Halifax Seasiders FC

 

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[1zzurri]

u sir are a wizard

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Pretty solid.  I certainly wouldn't mind a chance to ply my trade on some others

[Shway]

Is anyone else seeing my post as an entire page?

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Yup.  Really weird.  I see your post and then a second part of it thats the whole page .. wtf

 

[raphdelarosa]

I think having more USL teams in Canada is the way to go as soon as 2017 until a Canadian League finally sees the day and the USL teams change leagues.

I dont see why there cant be at least 6-8 Canadian teams playing in the USL without counting the TFC, IMFC & VWFC academies.

[Unnamed Trialist]

 

I still think a national futsal league is the best way to go. It could play over the winter months when MLS & NASL are not playing, it would have much lower costs due to rosters of 11 players, could use existing university infrastructures for 1k-2k indoor attendance, it would be in our 3 largest markets (in fact the D1/2 teams would probably put a team in to provide more playing dev time for their younger players).

Futsal is an entirely different sport. If you'd watched it you'd know that. And you can watch it, a lot of online sites stream matches. It is not even good to stay in shape offseason for pros, since it is "risky", though for amateur and beer league players it is fine. 

Futsal is fine development for kids, to say age 11-12. Assuming they are not playing at lunch hour at school, and in Canada, they're not. So futsal for kids. 

We need to change the MLS rule discriminating against Canadians, or establish parity with Americans. Since it is offseason, I'd spend time on that, as Voyageurs I mean. Since otherwise I'm going to frigging hibernate till March when it comes to any equation with Canada and football in it. 

[-Hammer-]

We need to change the MLS rule discriminating against Canadians, or establish parity with Americans. Since it is offseason, I'd spend time on that, as Voyageurs I mean. 

Since otherwise I'm going to frigging hibernate till March when it comes to any equation with Canada and football in it. 

Well and good, except that Canadian's literally have zero say in forcing this issue. MLS is sanctioned by the USSF. They have zero interest in developing talent for rival nations. Even if all three Canadian teams ownership screamed at the top of their lungs to treat Canadian's as domestics (which they won't as MLS TV money and pretending that the big markets that they need to be part of the US to be considered big), the USSF is going to say "No, MLS is a US league with US player requirements. Don't like it? Find another league." This is why I am very much against tying any more of our professional soccer teams to US leagues, unless there are clear paths to us gaining substantially more teams, with substantially more Canadian's playing.

I fully feel, that if we don't have at least 2nd division leagues, sanctioned by the CSA with Canadian quota requirements, we are never going to climb up very much in CONCAAF. Mexico will always be the kingpin of the region and so long as our players are effectively subsidizing development in the much larger US system, we are never gong to overtake the US and we aren't going to be able to keep players here with how many limited spots there are for Canadians to play. Until we can produce a profitable, domestic league that has at least 50 Canadian's playing meaningful minutes, with players making at least 40 grand a year.

Given that there are 3.5 berths given to our region, the best we can hope for is to get lucky vs the likes of Panama, Jamaica and Costa Rica or wait till the next CONCAAF hosted world cup comes around, as we sneak in by virtue of the host getting an automatic berth.

[TRM]

I do watch a fair bit of futsal on the Youtube channel for Spain's league

https://www.youtube.com/user/LNFSfutsal

Mostly during the off season. I feel it has potential for more than just kids development. It does have an injury risk factor but so do other activities that athletes do in the off season. It would be for the lower level players who are probably scraping by on MLS/USL minimum salaries. I don't think that Sam or Russ would benefit from it technically or financially but others definitely would.

PS. Does the title of this thread get changed to "Broken News" come January? 

[-Hammer-]

There were rumours a decade ago that a CUSL was gonna start and nothing happened BTW. Over the last 15 years, the CSA has commissioned two reports on the state of Canadian soccer and the conditions required to create a league and both times they haven't followed up on it. I'm a cynisist and pessimist of Duane Rollins and others thinking that the dream was never dead just in hibernation. I honestly think its been in hibernation longer than that. If it weren't for the Caps, Lynx and Impact in the late 90's, professional futbol in Canada of any kind would've disappeared and we'd in worse shape than now. I think we gotta work with what we have and not some mythical unicorn that pops up every once in awhile saying that there are owners wanting a C-league. If most of you guys wanna keep waiting thats up to you, but I prefer supporting my local MLS, USL. NASL side in the present and most of you guys should too, rather than waiting on something that has a low chance of happening.

I think here though is a fundamental disconnect. I think everyone accepts more Canadians playing the game is a good thing and more Canadian teams in new markets is a good thing for the sport in our country. Both from a financial perspective, by being able to attract people to the game across the nation and giving meaningful minutes to Canadian players which helps our national team.

So, what options are there to achieve more Canadians playing and more Canadian teams in the current environment? There is no potential in MLS. It's a USSF sanctioned league, there is no reason for them or any of its teams to make a mandatory Canadian quota, yet alone treat Canadian players as domestics. There is also no opportunities to add more Canadian teams to MLS. The league will likely never humor promotion and relegation and the league is already bursting at the seams with 20 teams already, and that is to stay nothing about the prohibitively high franchise fee to get in.

The NASL, it's pretty much the same story, only that there is a bit more capacity to add more Canadian teams, assuming the league can stay with it's 75% US team requirement. However, the NASL still doesn't have a West coast team, it's currently having a spat with the USSF, it's still reeling from the FIFA corruption scandal.

So now we are down to the USL, which has basically become the crappy farm system for the MLS, where to focus is US development, with no real potential to have a Canadian team become anything more then a farm club. Also, the only three Canadian teams in that league, are..you guess it. The farm teams of the three MLS teams and are located in the same markets as those teams.

So your choices are hope you can buy into the NASL the next time a spot opens up for a Canadian team, or start an AHL style farm team for MLS. Yeah, I'm not satisfied with that answer, and the soccer fans in Quebec City, Regina, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Calgary, Hamilton, Halifax, London and Victoria deserve better and our national team certainly deserves better then the status quo.

[TRM]

"in Quebec City, Regina, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Calgary, Hamilton, Halifax, London and Victoria"

And therein lies the huge problem for any C-League. They are either not in our 3 biggest markets or they are going head to head with 3 MLS teams. I don't view either as a viable proposition and given the lack of progress I'd say neither do the people with the money.

The C-League ship put up the sails in 2007 with Toronto joining MLS and set sail with Vancouver and Montreal joining. Now just a ship going over  the distant horizon.

[michaeltfc91]

If the C-League is a means for developing Canadian talent than I do not see an issue with letting TFCII WhitecapsII and FC MTL into the league. They are all stable teams and will field professional reserve players who should be on par with the expected level of play. Those teams should still draw a decent crowd given the big markets and people being interested in watching good young Canadian players playing against Canadian teams.

The hard part is getting Ottawa Fury and FC Edmonton on board to add two more stable and prosperous clubs and would give us the 5 the biggest markets. We hear Ottawa is on board, but hopefully we can convince Edmonton.

Then you add some of the USL PDL teams who are interested in making a move up (Calgary, Winnipeg, Thunder Bay, London, Kitchener). You also have Hamilton interested and hopefully Regina with the beautiful stadium and CFL backing. That is 7 more possible markets and if lets say 4 are on board you have a 9 team league right there.

Example 9 team league:

West - Whitecaps 2, FC Edmonton, Calgary PDL team, Winnipeg PDL team, Regina Expansion
East - TFC II, FC MTL, Hamilton Expansion, Ottawa Fury

The 6 independent teams can play in the Voyageurs Cup with the 3 MLS teams

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

I do watch a fair bit of futsal on the Youtube channel for Spain's league

https://www.youtube.com/user/LNFSfutsal

Mostly during the off season. I feel it has potential for more than just kids development. It does have an injury risk factor but so do other activities that athletes do in the off season. It would be for the lower level players who are probably scraping by on MLS/USL minimum salaries. I don't think that Sam or Russ would benefit from it technically or financially but others definitely would.

PS. Does the title of this thread get changed to "Broken News" come January? 

Well then I apologize, you do watch it. I watch Barça live a few times a year, it is amazing, especially the big games vs. Interviu or Caja Segovia, Pozo Murcia. Very high quality play and you get to be in row 4 if you arrive early (club members get in free). Right now it is the 4th biggest spectator team sport in Spain, with a full national league, but I think it could be moving into third ahead of handball soon if it hasn't already.

But right now not a single important pro is doing anything with futsal, and not for recovery either. It is too demanding on joints and tendons, means being pressured quickly, turning hard, the controls are different. The ball is a totally different feel. And it requires a different muscle structure. If you watch certain players, like Brazilians especially, you see the futsal skills. Deco was one of the best examples. Right now Thiago at Bayern plays "futsal" skills in 11 x 11.

I am all for it as a semi-pro sport in Canada, like lacross or something. It'd be great to have a league as followed as box lacrosse is on the West Coast.

For our sport, better to simply play 3 on 3 on grass, or on an indoor turf surface with proper cleats.

[-Hammer-]

If the C-League is a means for developing Canadian talent than I do not see an issue with letting TFCII WhitecapsII and FC MTL into the league. They are all stable teams and will field professional reserve players who should be on par with the expected level of play. Those teams should still draw a decent crowd given the big markets and people being interested in watching good young Canadian players playing against Canadian teams.

The hard part is getting Ottawa Fury and FC Edmonton on board to add two more stable and prosperous clubs and would give us the 5 the biggest markets. We hear Ottawa is on board, but hopefully we can convince Edmonton.

Then you add some of the USL PDL teams who are interested in making a move up (Calgary, Winnipeg, Thunder Bay, London, Kitchener). You also have Hamilton interested and hopefully Regina with the beautiful stadium and CFL backing. That is 7 more possible markets and if lets say 4 are on board you have a 9 team league right there.

Example 9 team league:

West - Whitecaps 2, FC Edmonton, Calgary PDL team, Winnipeg PDL team, Regina Expansion
East - TFC II, FC MTL, Hamilton Expansion, Ottawa Fury

The 6 independent teams can play in the Voyageurs Cup with the 3 MLS teams

 

Because the MLS teams ability to generate talent is hamstrung by the need to develop US over Canadian talent, because farm teams and leagues are incredibly hard to market on sports with a strong following (For example the AHL and AAA has incredibly thin margins and has mainly become big team ownership dominated because they aren't economically viable) never mind ones with less then a following, because it doesn't address the need to increase the profile and number and marketability of soccer throughout the country, instead of favoring a "This is a good as it will ever get" model, which as it stands isn't taking us to the World Cup.
 

"in Quebec City, Regina, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Calgary, Hamilton, Halifax, London and Victoria"

And therein lies the huge problem for any C-League. They are either not in our 3 biggest markets or they are going head to head with 3 MLS teams. I don't view either as a viable proposition and given the lack of progress I'd say neither do the people with the money.

The C-League ship put up the sails in 2007 with Toronto joining MLS and set sail with Vancouver and Montreal joining. Now just a ship going over  the distant horizon.

I would disagree with your concerns about big market viability. If Milan, Manchester, New York, London and lord knows how many other big markets can have multiple teams, there is no reason to consider those locations exempt, just because the MLS bull is nearby. The Cosmos still draw despite the presence of City and the Red Bulls.

There is little reason not to put teams in the big markets to keep the MLS teams honest, and maybe one day eclipse them. If it's at the level of NASL I know a LOT of people who would jump ship off the MLSE/TFC boat in a heartbeat because of how poorly they've run that organization.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Because the MLS teams ability to generate talent is hamstrung by the need to develop US over Canadian talent, because farm teams and leagues are incredibly hard to market on sports with a strong following (For example the AHL and AAA has incredibly thin margins and has mainly become big team ownership dominated because they aren't economically viable) never mind ones with less then a following, because it doesn't address the need to increase the profile and number and marketability of soccer throughout the country, instead of favoring a "This is a good as it will ever get" model, which as it stands isn't taking us to the World Cup. 

I would disagree with your concerns about big market viability. If Milan, Manchester, New York, London and lord knows how many other big markets can have multiple teams, there is no reason to consider those locations exempt, just because the MLS bull is nearby. The Cosmos still draw despite the presence of City and the Red Bulls.

There is little reason not to put teams in the big markets to keep the MLS teams honest, and maybe one day eclipse them. If it's at the level of NASL I know a LOT of people who would jump ship off the MLSE/TFC boat in a heartbeat because of how poorly they've run that organization.

And not even so much that they're poorly run, just the chance to have an inter city rivalry for the first time in Canada, I'm sure would appeal to some people.  That is what makes soccer special.  The inter/AC rivalry, the Manchester derby, North london derby.  I think people are fooling themselves saying Toronto Montreal and Van couldn't all support a second team eventually, and I honestly believe this would actually help the MLS clubs in the long run.