BREAKING NEWS: C-League news and what cities will be involved

[SoccerCoach]

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/24th-minute/c-league-cities-r5374

 

C-League cities

Jul 31 2015 05:28 PM | Duane Rollins in 24th Minute

Multiple sources are confirming the cities that will be involved in the C-League launch. Currently, there are committed backers in eight cities.

The launch target remains Spring 2017.

The markets involved are:

Vancouver, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Toronto, Hamilton, Ottawa and Montreal.

Organizers remain hopeful that Edmonton investors can be convinced to come on board, but relationships there are strained.

Due to confidentiality agreements, the names of the investors are being kept under close wraps. However, it’s been strongly suggested that much of the money is linked to the CFL. The Calgary Flames have also been rumoured to be involved in that city.

The investors in the three MLS cities are not attached to the MLS sides. There is no suggestion that the MLS teams will be pressured to leave, with investors preferring a “Welsh model” of sorts to the Canadian pyramid – a few teams separate from the C-League competing in a foreign league (i.e. Swansea City in the Premier League), while maintaining a top flight Canadian league as well.

The NASL teams are the biggest question. It’s thought that the investors would prefer to launch with both NASL sides coming on board, but neither has 100 percent committed to moving. It’s unclear whether the Ottawa market has a second set of investors ready in case the Fury opt to stay in the NASL. As of right now, the investors would prefer to entice the NASL sides to join, rather than to force them.

Ottawa President John Pugh appeared to be open to a move without committing to one in a recent interview with the ATP 613 blog.

Edmonton has proven to be a much harder sell. There, owner Tom Fath is deeply involved in the NASL and is said to feel “unfair pressure” to abandon that league after the amount of effort and investment he’s put into it.

Clarifying previous CSN reports, the C-League would be fully professional and would aim to operate at a higher level than he USL. The MLS reserve teams would likely remain in USL.

The salary budget for each team would likely be between $1-m and $1.5-m Canadian. That would roughly work out to an average salary of between $40,000 and $60,000 Canadian. The USL average is around $20,000 USD and the NASL pays an average of about $40,000 USD.

Despite previous suggestions that the announcement may be fast forwarded, the investors have instead decided to slow the process down in an attempt to possibly convince both NASL sides to join. They are said to believe that they can wait as long as January 2016 to make the official announcement. 

[SoccerCoach]

It appears that the owners of FC Edmonton (the Fath brothers) are not too enthusiastic about this idea. It would appear to me that both the CFL and the CSA are trying hard to convince them to abandon the NASL and join the C-League.

 

As I stated before, and I will say it again with lots of concern....What I fear the most is the Eskimos or the Oilers buying off the Fath brothers, and having FC Edmonton play their home games at Commonwealth Stadium. This could turn out to be the kiss of death for this club. A total disaster of biblical proportion. What I suggest from anyone wanting to buy FC Edmonton is to remain at Clarke Stadium, but give that stadium a face lift by adding more bleachers to both end-zones. Turn that little stadium into a 7,000 seat facility in order to expand their cash flow of revenue. Build a strong fan base for at least the next 7 years. Forget about building a new stadium. The city will never buy into this proposal. Albertan politicians are too greedy and fear deficits.

[jedinathan]

Ya.... I'm not convinced by this new article.

 

1) I'm being super cautious about this whole situation.

2) That article from the Fury prez? Ya they state that they are not aware of anyone with a concrete plan to make a C League. They DO say that they want to play at the highest level possible. They also say that they would carefully examine things before jumping over.

3) Why would either the Eskimos or the Oilers insist on FCEd playing at Commonwealth? Its clearly been shown to try and fail (Edmonton Aviators, FCEd V Cup games to name only the recent examples).

4) Who would blame Fath for being upset over being told that he HAS to pull his investments from the NASL... after he's invested money for 5 years now?

5) this post conveniently addresses the questions and concerns that have been posted here, with very minimal new information.

 

 

I'll still believe this when I watch an announcement from someone who is actually investing and putting their money where their mouth is.

[Grizzly]

Still only an article from Rollins with no sources named. If this were actually happening one would think other journalists would be looking into it. The whole idea does not make any sense from so many angles. For one the MLS teams would be furious at the CSA for putting competing professional teams in their markets and might possibly try to sabatoge both the league and the CSA which would not be good for anyone. And while the size of Toronto combined with the way TFC is run might allow for a second team to survive in Toronto, I really don't see Montreal or Vancouver supporting second teams. The whole concept of starting a league like this seems too ridiculous and poorly thought out to be anything than a figment of Rollins imagination. We need more teams and starting something like a Canadian division within NASL with CFL partners in a few cities might work but putting a nation wide 2nd tier league with teams located in MLS and NASL cities whether those teams/owners like it or not seems to be a recipe for disaster. 

[Dub Narcotic]

There's already a thread about this.

[nolbertos]

At this point, Duane Rollins articles about the proposed C-league are a "pipe dream" no pun intended. Its bad enought that now the NASL owners aren't on the same page, but worse that they still wanna compete with the Whitecaps and Impact on there turf. I honestly foresee them struggling so bad in Van. Vancouver isn't a big supporter of minor league team, and now three's a crowd woth the MLS caps, USL Caps II and now C-League Van Team. Same applies with the Impact. I think whoever thought of this league is thinkin they can barge in and make it work or co-erce the NASL and USL teams to join or else or get into a turf war with the more established and now with some more star power players MLS. Still think more NASL teams is thr route to go and then separate into a C-league once they're eatablished.

[SoccerCoach]

I'm curious to know what was the operational budget of your average CSL team during the 1980s, together with their sponsorship situation and TV deals?

 

Now, will this present deal be a good one knowing that it has the backing of the CFL and other major sponsors? In fact, what all parties are proposing here makes a huge difference. I don't recall any CSL clubs ever having this sort of financial backing.

 

Even though lots of Canadian fans are so pessimistic, declaring that there is no need for it or saying it's going to fail, others think this is a great move because the status quo has not been working in favour of Canada. Case in point, Canadian players in MLS and in the NASL are still considered international players by the arbitrary rules of the USSF. The other issue is that not enough Canadian players are being drafted by both Canadian and US MLS teams, and for this reason our national program has suffered very badly in these last 15 years. The other disparaging policy is that only 25% of teams in the NASL can be based outside of the United States. Now that's a serious thought to be taken under serious consideration and why so many are supporting the idea of this league. The bottom line is that we need to have our own league if we ever want to develop international talent on a level even close to that of a nation that would make the World Cup.

[CDNFootballer]

Canadian Teams and Leagues

 

http://www.thevoyageurs.org/index.php?/topic/27060-montagliani%E2%80%99s-vision-a-canadian-division-1a-that-%E2%80%9Ccoexists%E2%80%9D-with-mls-nasl/page-8#entry523202

[SoccerCoach]

The sad reality is that we need the CFL playing a huge role in the creation of the C-League. They got the money, the sponsors, the TV deals, and the top connections with the corporate community. They also have the marketing savvie insiders who know how to promote a league. This is what the old CSL of the 1980s was certainly missing and why it failed.

 

Another key point, as mentioned in the article, Canada has to go the "Welsh way" to benefit from being involved with the top tier MLS. I am getting ahead of myself here but hope this C-League is a catalyst for more Canadian teams to join, in particular Quebec City and a Maritime team (aka Halifax). But, let's wait for 2017 first.

[Cheeta]

I'll play.  Because it's crazy enough to make a degree of sense.

 

If a "C-League" launches, and it's comparitively financed as say an NASL franchise then I can't help but think NASL is dead in Canada.  One, maybe two successful seasons is all it's going to take to guarentee that and the Fath's can be as stubborn as they want that's the reality.  Truth is Edmonton and Ottawa are going to be NASL islands in a (small) sea of Canadian football teams, providing neither a superior on-field product or sufficient legacy attachment to NASL to trump the traditional Canadian city-state rivalrys we've all grown up with.  And really I don't know.  If I were involved in all this and felt confident that a C-League had a better than fair chance I wouldn't be especially concerned about Edmonton and Ottawa being outside the loop at the launch.  There inclusion at a latter date would help foster a sense of success and growth as the league progresses.

 

I believe there are financial penalties for leaving NASL but I suspect that the new C-League would be willing to help to subsidize those expenses (for the greater good of all of course) to bring the NASL franchises on board.  And for the NASL franchises (everything else being roughly equal) just the travel expenses alone must be reason enough to join a C-League.  Provided of course they can be convinced that league will still be around 5 years from now.

 

Franchises in MLS cities doesn't trouble me.  Different price point, different marketing strategy, and no, they wont' be competting against USL because seriously, nobody gives a fu'k about USL.  Not the paying public anyway.  If a C-League fails in an MLS market I'm conviced that failure will have absolutely zero to do with the presence of a USL team.

 

Oh, and the MLS franchises being concerned about a C-League?  Kinda doubt it.  A C-League is years away, IF EVER, from competing against MLS for that portion of the footie market and if in the mean time it gets MLS off the hook for "Canadian content" it just may be the out the CSA and MLS is looking for.  Not ideal for either party but an ends to a means.  And Lord I wish a program that will eventually kill MLS in Canada. 

 

Wishfull thinking I sure, but I hope enough reasonable logic to see the day a C-League Citizens By Choice (aka Winnipeg CBC) win the V's Cup.

[nolbertos]

I honestly think this C-league concept is 10 years late. If it happened before MLS expnasion to Canada, it could've been more united and less fragmented and wishful thinking. I honestly think the 3 media markets are gonna fail for the C-league. Do guys reallt believe that the Caps, TFC and Impact ownership don't have more financial muscle than the CFL owners in those cities?? If they sense that this league is trying to encroach there marketshare, expect them and MLS to either kill them or move then out to Victoria, Outside thr GTA burbs or Quebec City. Also the paying public wants to see superstars. The C-league will be years away ir ever luring a Drogba type player, and cause intense media sensation in Canada for a futbol player. The C-league and CSA ahould've held a plan with everybody MLS and USL to create a unified Div. 2 or 3 league rather than now potentially creating a turf war.

[shamrock]

It would help if we didn't call it "C-league"...With good financial backing and media coverage I think it could actually work. If the owners are prepared to sink some money in the first 5-10 years, why not? And I can understand for FCE to wait and see were the league is going, before they jump ship. But eventually, if they see money, rivalries, TV-deals, maybe lower travel costs andsoforth with the Canadian league, why not? 

 

MLS is not going away, but it won't expand in Canada either. So I like his idea of a Welsh set-up, and so what if you can't beat them? I can hardly imagine this league being better than NASL (or USL) from the start. Hopefully it can grow into something strong along the way. The national program would benefit (in a decade that is). 

 

Only question remains, is it going to happen?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Ya.... I'm not convinced by this new article.

 

2) That article from the Fury prez? Ya they state that they are not aware of anyone with a concrete plan to make a C League. They DO say that they want to play at the highest level possible. They also say that they would carefully examine things before jumping over.

 

Is there a url for that Fury prez article anywhere? Beyond that I guess there is no need to re-iterate the many reasons for skepticism on this, because others have already stated the obvious on that.

[tmcmurph]

Ya.... I'm not convinced by this new article.

 

I'll still believe this when I watch an announcement from someone who is actually investing and putting their money where their mouth is.

 

+1^  Yet another pre-announcement announcement announcing that something will happen sometime, someday, but no sources able to be named. YAAAAWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

 

"Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was" - Talking Heads

[TFC07]

NASL might lose their 2nd division status in couple of years while their better markets are leaving to MLS and probably USL Pro if NASL loses their 2nd division status to them.  Add the fact you got to deal with USSF who will do their best not help out Canadian soccer as much as possible.  

 

Point is: NASL isn't stable and there's no signs of NASL surviving in long term.   So  I don't understand why Canadian soccer fans rather be with NASL over forming all Canadian league that probably have more Canadian teams and players with national TV deal and playing in better venue.    Not only that, but all Canadian league will be better where there's more control and less of threat from other leagues than hoping NASL can somehow survive in USA.  

[CDNFootballer]

NASL might lose their 2nd division status in couple of years while their better markets are leaving to MLS and probably USL Pro if NASL loses their 2nd division status to them.  Add the fact you got to deal with USSF who will do their best not help out Canadian soccer as much as possible.  

 

Point is: NASL isn't stable and there's no signs of NASL surviving in long term.   So  I don't understand why Canadian soccer fans rather be with NASL over forming all Canadian league that probably have more Canadian teams and players with national TV deal and playing in better venue.    Not only that, but all Canadian league will be better where there's more control and less of threat from other leagues than hoping NASL can somehow survive in USA.  

 

Thats not how it works, NASL won't lose their D2 status to D3 USL, if USL gets D2 sanctioning for 2017 they will both be D2. There can be more than 1 D2 league under USSF rules.

 

Where do you come up with the incorrect notion of NASL not being stable? You must not follow the league much, they have been increasing their average attendance by approximately 1K each of the last 3 years from 3800 to 4600 to 5500 last year, a new D2 record and over 6K this season so far. They've gained strong expansion clubs the last few years as well, have a new deal this year with ESPN to broadcast over 120 of the leagues matches worldwide, recent deal  a few weeks ago for US National telecast of Wednesday matches, more sponsorships, etc.

 

I do hope the new D1A Canadian league comes about though and agree it will be good for Canada to have its own topflight National league.

[TFC07]

Thats not how it works, NASL won't lose their D2 status to D3 USL, if USL gets D2 sanctioning for 2017 they will both be D2. There can be more than 1 D2 league under USSF rules.

 

Where do you come up with the incorrect notion of NASL not being stable? You must not follow the league much, they have been increasing their average attendance by approximately 1K each of the last 3 years from 3800 to 4600 to 5500 last year, a new D2 record and over 6K this season so far. They've gained strong expansion clubs the last few years as well, have a new deal this year with ESPN to broadcast over 120 of the leagues matches worldwide, recent deal  a few weeks ago for US National telecast of Wednesday matches, more sponsorships, etc.

 

I do hope the new D1A Canadian league comes about though and agree it will be good for Canada to have its own topflight National league.

 

It's coming from NASL losing their best markets to MLS.  

 

It's no secret that MLS/SUM wants to destroy NASL/Traffic.  Given MLS relationship with USL, NASL is going to have harder time growing if USL Pro gains 2nd division status.  So don't be surprise to see more cities joining USL over NASL.  

 

In Canadian soccer POV, NASL might want more Canadian teams, but ultimately USSF will decide if they want more Canadian teams in their leagues.    

 

This is why makes more sense to just form our league that doesn't have to deal with USSF, Traffic, SUM etc. and most importantly have 100% control of professional soccer in this country.  

[TFC07]

Don't forget that there's no TV deal in Canada to watch NASL at all.   So why would anyone support NASL over Canadian soccer league?   

[baulderdash77]

There's no doubt that a C-League is going to be better for soccer in Canada than what we have now.  Having outsourced our 1st and 2nd divisions to the USSF and American leagues isn't doing us any favours long term.  Certainly it's better than what we had in 2005 but going forward we've exhausted our growth opportunities in MLS and NASL and it's not enough to take us where we have to go.

 

The C-League is really the only option for growth of pro soccer FOR Canadian players. in Canada.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

^^^That line of argument was valid up to the point that the three Canadian MLS teams actually started to get serious about the development of Canadian players by launching the three D2 level (by the CSA's definitions of what constitutes D2 rather than the USSF's) USL teams with predominantly Canadian rosters. 

 

 

"Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was" - Talking Heads

 

"It's called snake oil y'all, and it's been around for a long long time" - Steve Earle

[baulderdash77]

^^^That line of argument was valid up to the point that the three Canadian MLS teams actually started to get serious about the development of Canadian players by launching the three D2 level (by the CSA's definitions of what constitutes D2 rather than the USSF's) USL teams with predominantly Canadian rosters.

 

It still holds.  Those 3 teams are just to feed the bottom of the roster of the 3 MLS teams (who incidentally played a total of 0 Canadians last week combined).  The 3 MLS teams represent a very sharp funnel for Canadian talent.  It's way to early to see how this process is going to progress going forward, but it's safe to say that they still put a cap on the options of Canadian players by funneling them through just the 3 teams. 

 

We've seen MLS kind of top out in the 22-25 player range for Canadians in recent years.  As our primary source of professional talent in the world that's going to guarantee a shallow pool going forward.  I don't see that trend really expanding as MLS expands because it's all US expansion and Canadian players will always be at a disadvantage in the US markets.

 

 

*edit*  Just to add- yesterday Vancouver and Montreal had 8 Canadian minutes combined yesterday.  You have to admit when they talk about developing Canadian talent it kinda sounds like lipservice doesn't it?  I'm not trying to make this a "Vancouver hates Canada" thread but neither team has tried to play Canadian players since joining MLS in any meaningful way.

[ThiKu]

Something a C-League (yes, terrible name) would probably want to consider...

 

Although it's only an 8 team league or so, they may want to consider a twice/season "jamboree" of sorts where they have all 8 teams playing in the same city over a 2 day period (1 game per team). Maybe have it on an international date and have the national team be the feature event for a friendly or WCQ - and if FIFA rules allow it have all tickets reserved for people who attended the C-League jamboree event....

 

This would essentially though "force" the national team to play somewhere other than Toronto or Montreal every now and again!

[Blackdude]

Maybe have it on an international date and have the national team be the feature event for a friendly or WCQ - and if FIFA rules allow it have all tickets reserved for people who attended the C-League jamboree event....

 

 

Why should we do that? It would alienate V's who travel a lot and who have chosen to support some other team.  Not everybody can make it and I don't know how it would be a good idea because we would have even weaker home support. Sure give them first crack, but not only to them.

[1996]

I still think the way to go is to stay in the NASL have a Canadian division sort of, where the Canadian teams play each other at least once or even twice home and away and then play the   American teams in their division once, after playing all of the Canadian teams declare a NASL Canadian league champion from the Canadian team with the most points gained from playing all the Canadian teams. I would not bother putting teams in the 3 MLS cities, their are enough Canadian cities where teams can be established without having to go into the three MLS cities, Regina, Winnipeg, Calgary, Hamilton, Quebec City, Victoria, Edmonton, Ottawa and maybe one or two Maritime cities and voila you have a quasi Canadian league but still playing in an already operating North American league, I think this approach can work.

[TFC07]

I still think the way to go is to stay in the NASL have a Canadian division sort of, where the Canadian teams play each other at least once or even twice home and away and then play the   American teams in their division once, after playing all of the Canadian teams declare a NASL Canadian league champion from the Canadian team with the most points gained from playing all the Canadian teams. I would not bother putting teams in the 3 MLS cities, their are enough Canadian cities where teams can be established without having to go into the three MLS cities, Regina, Winnipeg, Calgary, Hamilton, Quebec City, Victoria, Edmonton, Ottawa and maybe one or two Maritime cities and voila you have a quasi Canadian league but still playing in an already operating North American league, I think this approach can work.

 

Why would USSF approve something that will benefit CONCACAF rival?   How would Canadian soccer benefit more in NASL than C-league?  

 

Reality is that NASL isn't a good league while it doesn't have a presence in this country.  An all Canadian league will most likely have bigger presence in this country (especially if they're back by CFL owners and an NHL owner) since they will have resources and venues to attract people while have right people to secure  national TV deal that NASL will never achieve in this country. 

 

Also, NASL is right now fighting against MLS/USL/SUM which is a battle they will most likely lose in the end.   I wouldn't be surprise to see NASL fall behind USL Pro in 5 years.   So how much faith can you put on NASL?