BREAKING NEWS: C-League news and what cities will be involved

[lazlo_80]

Calgary Flames ownership looking to build soccer facility. This could be seen as evidence that this thing might be happening?

Www.calgarynext.com

[IceCreamMan]

Agreed it's a good sign but completion likely won't be till 2023. Curious where tbey would play until then.

[Jason]

Calgary Flames ownership looking to build soccer facility. This could be seen as evidence that this thing might be happening?

Www.calgarynext.com

I watched the Calgary Next press conference online.  Ken King (CEO of Flames/Stampeders) said that he thinks MLS in Calgary is probably 10-15 years away, but he sees another pro soccer option more likely, such as a new domestic league.  He really did say "new domestic league" unprompted so I think that is a bit of evidence that this thing may actually be in the works.

 

Jason

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Calgary Flames ownership looking to build soccer facility. This could be seen as evidence that this thing might be happening?

Www.calgarynext.com

 

Potentially, but playing Devil's advocate could this be aimed at using a 2026 World Cup bid to get an upgrade on McMahon Stadium for the Stampeders?

[Jason]

Potentially, but playing Devil's advocate could this be aimed at using a 2026 World Cup bid to get an upgrade on McMahon Stadium for the Stampeders?

I've been suggesting for a while that they are working behind the scenes with the CSA on the WC bid.  If it happens, they would be in line to get some stadium cash.  My theories expanded are here:

 

http://yycsoccer.blogspot.ca/2015/08/could-new-stadium-in-calgary-lead-to.html

 

Jason

[Shway]

If the C-League is a go with the 8 markets stated and the fact it won't be a single entity system to try and force parity it'll be interesting to see which teams go for it out of the gates.

 

And this is my concern for this league. How do you justify not having parity in a startup league? I mean the easiest thing to do is look south at the MLS' successful model, and NOT the 70's NASL crash and burn model (which this is more sounding like without the stars) 

 

I am an avid supporter of the CMNT, and local professional soccer. However I strongly, strongly believe that if this league launches soon (next 1-3 years) it will fail, and crumble hard. All these details I have been hearing about (1.5M salary, duplicate markets, playing in CFL 30K+ stadiums) doesn't make sense from a financial sustainability stand point. 

- 8 team league = 27 games?13-14 Home dates (3x times against an opponent)

- (3) Way too many time zones for 8 teams 

- Travelling would be crazy, and would prove costly

- Not enough quality Canadian players to justify a 1M-1.5 Salary cap.

- CFL would likely be in season at the same time soooo does this mean gridiron lines?

- The MLS teams are either barely relevant (Montreal) or are now beginning to have a foothold in their respective cities, how is another team going launch and promote itself against the giants?  

For me aving a CFL owner is great from a financial standpoint to launch a team, but to launch an entirely new league with CFL owners doesn't strike me as something I would be interested in considering the quality of the CFL, and how """"Canadian"""" the CFL is not. What we would see is essentially what we see in the CFL due to the reality that we currently don't have the talent pool to justify paying Kyle Bekker, Bryce Alderson or even Keven Aleman 250K. What we will end up seeing is a large import of overpriced international or even American players combined with young unexceptional Canadian talent that will produce a below standard product on the field.

 

I think what needs to happen is that these owners & the CSA put together a 10 year plan, which consists of launching teams in their respective markets in the NASL or USL. Invest the money into setting up the required infrastructure essentials (i.e. academies, front office personnel, supporter groups) to create a sustainable club that by year 8 or 10 there is a mandate to join the all-Canadian league. By pimping the USL/NASL they would reduce a lot of the initial travel expenses, the Canadian talent pool would be bigger (and hopefully better) to pick from (due to the MLS academies developing more players) and it would camouflage the growing pains of each individual club while developing Canadian players via the Edmonton way. 

 

Throughout this time, we would still have the Voyageurs cup to test different variations of how the overall league would work. (i.e. round robin between 10 teams, 2 groups, top 6 or whatever go into a playoff format) 

All in all this league idea is 10 years too late, and IMO the right way of going about it is not trying to launch a brand new league with 8 teams, blow "corporate" money into and hope it turns to something. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

I've been suggesting for a while that they are working behind the scenes with the CSA on the WC bid.  If it happens, they would be in line to get some stadium cash.  My theories expanded are here:

 

http://yycsoccer.blogspot.ca/2015/08/could-new-stadium-in-calgary-lead-to.html

 

Jason

 

Looks about right to me. The Calgary angle confirms why the NASL commissioner always mentions two strong expansion candidates in Canada. Agree that if you are going to do pro soccer in a CFL-sized stadium, MLS is what ultimately makes most sense, but the legacy would probably be mainly about the CFL rather than soccer from their standpoint. The only fly in the ointment in all of this is that the 2026 bid is probably now a long shot at best. Although it is arguably Canada's turn in CONCACAF terms, I think FIFA will find it hard to look past the USA for financial reasons, and the exit of Sepp Blatter makes it a lot likelier that they will bid as well. The launch of the bidding process was cancelled in June:

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/33078284

 

and apparently the entire FIFA membership votes now:

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32045238

 

rather than the executive committee that decided Qatar in the middle of summer would be a good move. 

[lazlo_80]

Jahinho, Baulderdash had a pretty good breakdown of how this could work financially on the previous page. Worth a look just as a counterpoint to some of your thoughts. Cheers.

[Jason]

For me aving a CFL owner is great from a financial standpoint to launch a team, but to launch an entirely new league with CFL owners doesn't strike me as something I would be interested in considering the quality of the CFL, and how """"Canadian"""" the CFL is not. What we would see is essentially what we see in the CFL due to the reality that we currently don't have the talent pool to justify paying Kyle Bekker, Bryce Alderson or even Keven Aleman 250K. What we will end up seeing is a large import of overpriced international or even American players combined with young unexceptional Canadian talent that will produce a below standard product on the field.

 

All in all this league idea is 10 years too late, and IMO the right way of going about it is not trying to launch a brand new league with 8 teams, blow "corporate" money into and hope it turns to something. 

Considering the quality of the CFL and how Canadian the CFL is not?  Don't follow you here.  The CFL is unquestionably the #2 football league in the world.  They can't compete with the NFL to pay players, but they are clearly the next best choice.  And the Canadian content in the CFL is about 50%, which seems somewhat of a reasonable balance to me - get some good Americans in but there is enough incentive to develop Canadians.  The CFL has been absolutely huge in developing Cdn players.  More and more Canadians are making the NFL, and I think this is at least in part to the general growth of football infrastructure that we have seen as a result of the CFL's growth in the last decade.  

 

Everyone needs to stop crapping on the CFL.  If you don't like gridiron, so be it.  But there is no reason I can see that these teams couldn't be good soccer owners.  Look at the Ottawa NASL/CFL situation now - I'd like 4 more of those setups across the country, wouldn't you?

 

Jason

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

If there's no government funding for stadium upgrades in time for 2026 in the pipeline along with the promise of a cash bonanza linked to hosting World Cup games, then you are counting on the pro soccer league being the main selling point for the CFL ownership groups once the NASL-Traffic-CSA-World Cup bid axis unraveled with Blatter's downfall at FIFA. May explain why Bill Peterson of the NASL wasn't able to execute his Canadian expansion plan with Hamilton and Calgary? The World Cup bid isn't dead yet but the bidding process has been delayed until FIFA gets its act together again, so to be charitable to Duane Rollins (in terms of it all not being some fantasy with no foundation) maybe the original plan was to announce something during the Gold Cup, if Blatter had still been head honcho at FIFA at that point and the World Cup bidding process had got underway by that point as originally planned? 

[Shway]

Everyone needs to stop crapping on the CFL.  If you don't like gridiron, so be it.  But there is no reason I can see that these teams couldn't be good soccer owners.  Look at the Ottawa NASL/CFL situation now - I'd like 4 more of those setups across the country, wouldn't you?

 

 

 

Hey Jason....I'm not bashing the CFL and never have. I just don`t care about it (nor do I care about the NFL) so I am not indifferent based on leagues, I just don't care for throwball. 

 

 

 

The CFL is unquestionably the #2 football league in the world.  They can't compete with the NFL to pay players, but they are clearly the next best choice.  And the Canadian content in the CFL is about 50%, which seems somewhat of a reasonable balance to me - get some good Americans in but there is enough incentive to develop Canadians.  The CFL has been absolutely huge in developing Cdn players.  More and more Canadians are making the NFL, and I think this is at least in part to the general growth of football infrastructure that we have seen as a result of the CFL's growth in the last decade.  

 

The CFL is #2 of #6 professional worldwide gridiron leagues (horray). That comparison to pro soccer is not possible considering the NFL has the BEST BY FAR gridiron players in the world. The MLS doesn't even have the best Americans playing in the MLS, and the mandatory starting Canadian content (30%) in the CFL is subjected to punt returns, extra points, or lesser roles while relying on the better skilled and better paid Americans for the QB's, RB's, WR's, ect. The incentive for CFL teams is to meet the Canadian quota, and try to win - nothing else. Its not even a development league, it more consists of American fall-offs, comebacks, kids who just were never going to cut it in the NFL, and superstar Canadians. 

 

So now would you be okay with the Canadian Super League teams consisting of players who could not make it in the NASL, or the USL playing with the likes of Canadians who used to play for Unattached FC. The quality would be dismal at first, which to my point would be hard to justify the 1.5M salary cap, and to tell Canadians to get behind this league.  

 

I agree with you that more Ottawa Furys would be perfect!.....but.....technically speaking the Fury wasn't a brand new organization. They existed before OSEG bought the Fury brand, and put dollars behind them to include more event dates to occupy TD place. Turns out, to their benefit it has worked out great, but nevertheless the Fury history has been entrenched within the Ottawa soccer community for years.

 

 

Shit, it were willing to pump 10M a year to this league, why can't we start with pumping that much into the national team first for better programs. (i.e. USSF style Bradeton academy)  

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Guillermo just so you know, the average poster on here is all about what you are trying to do as well.  Definitely a case of preaching to the choir, coming here and telling us to support,(you can't convert the converted) but I love your enthusiasm.  Where are you based out of yourself? 

Fair enough, I suppose I should have figured as much.  I'm just fired up at the moment, didn't mean to ruffle any feathers(in the wrong way anyways).  I'm currently in the Yukon, hence my affinity for doing stuff via social media, because I can't do too much otherwise for now, but I may be back in edmonton within the year.  I've basically been learning graphic design and trying to come up with cool logos that appeal to soccer fans.  Still not great at it, but I think some of the results have been decent.  Basically been surfing subreddits of cities with potential teams coming their way and asking for consensus symbols of the cities, so the teams don't end up with tacky names/logos like the wolverines or something mental.  It might be pointless, but as I said I can't do a ton from here at the moment otherwise.

If you're part of ESG i'd love to meet you guys when I get back, I've been to a few Eddies games(basically a convert this year) and you guys are the shit.  I think FCE is very close to becoming popular culture in Ed, just gotta convince the right people yknow.  Like I said I'd love to meet you guys just dependant on work at the moment, worst case scenario I'll be back in febuary ish.

[Shway]

IMO in order for this league to be successful, millions has to go into marketing each team in their respectives markets, and the league itself. And if the CFL is an example of what to look forward too, were doomed.

[shermanator]

I don't understand the hate for the CFL here.

 

A league that averages 25000 fans, with a TV contract that is doubling every 4-5 years, a championship that is over 100 years old, new or renovated stadiums in 75% of it's markets, and a championship game that includes a week long party drawing fans from all across the country is nothing to scoff at.

 

Fact is, the CSA would KILL to have a league with that much stability and storied history.

[BuzzAndSting]

IMO in order for this league to be successful, millions has to go into marketing each team in their respectives markets, and the league itself. And if the CFL is an example of what to look forward too, were doomed.

Highly doubt the Fury are putting millions into marketing. I'm guessing it's less than $50K. And they're consistently drawing north of 5K fans.

[lazlo_80]

Hey Jason....I'm not bashing the CFL and never have. I just don`t care about it (nor do I care about the NFL) so I am not indifferent based on leagues, I just don't care for throwball. 

 

 

The CFL is #2 of #6 professional worldwide gridiron leagues (horray). That comparison to pro soccer is not possible considering the NFL has the BEST BY FAR gridiron players in the world. The MLS doesn't even have the best Americans playing in the MLS, and the mandatory starting Canadian content (30%) in the CFL is subjected to punt returns, extra points, or lesser roles while relying on the better skilled and better paid Americans for the QB's, RB's, WR's, ect. The incentive for CFL teams is to meet the Canadian quota, and try to win - nothing else. Its not even a development league, it more consists of American fall-offs, comebacks, kids who just were never going to cut it in the NFL, and superstar Canadians. 

 

So now would you be okay with the Canadian Super League teams consisting of players who could not make it in the NASL, or the USL playing with the likes of Canadians who used to play for Unattached FC. The quality would be dismal at first, which to my point would be hard to justify the 1.5M salary cap, and to tell Canadians to get behind this league.  

 

I agree with you that more Ottawa Furys would be perfect!.....but.....technically speaking the Fury wasn't a brand new organization. They existed before OSEG bought the Fury brand, and put dollars behind them to include more event dates to occupy TD place. Turns out, to their benefit it has worked out great, but nevertheless the Fury history has been entrenched within the Ottawa soccer community for years.

 

 

Shit, it were willing to pump 10M a year to this league, why can't we start with pumping that much into the national team first for better programs. (i.e. USSF style Bradeton academy)  

 

I think you're minimalizing the CFL's success a little bit. It averages over 25,000 people, which is a significant number—and to your point, all despite not having the best football players in the world...this is a good thing— a testament to their marketing and media— as opposed to a bad thing about what this could mean for a Canadian soccer league.

 

Given the numbers associated with the league, it sounds like they'll be able to pay more than the NASL and compete with the MLS for low/mid-tier players as opposed to your concern of getting the run offs from the NASL and USL. 

[Jason]

The CFL is #2 of #6 professional worldwide gridiron leagues (horray). That comparison to pro soccer is not possible considering the NFL has the BEST BY FAR gridiron players in the world. The MLS doesn't even have the best Americans playing in the MLS, and the mandatory starting Canadian content (30%) in the CFL is subjected to punt returns, extra points, or lesser roles while relying on the better skilled and better paid Americans for the QB's, RB's, WR's, ect. The incentive for CFL teams is to meet the Canadian quota, and try to win - nothing else. Its not even a development league, it more consists of American fall-offs, comebacks, kids who just were never going to cut it in the NFL, and superstar Canadians. 

 

So now would you be okay with the Canadian Super League teams consisting of players who could not make it in the NASL, or the USL playing with the likes of Canadians who used to play for Unattached FC. The quality would be dismal at first, which to my point would be hard to justify the 1.5M salary cap, and to tell Canadians to get behind this league.  

 

I agree with you that more Ottawa Furys would be perfect!.....but.....technically speaking the Fury wasn't a brand new organization. They existed before OSEG bought the Fury brand, and put dollars behind them to include more event dates to occupy TD place. Turns out, to their benefit it has worked out great, but nevertheless the Fury history has been entrenched within the Ottawa soccer community for years.

 

 

Shit, it were willing to pump 10M a year to this league, why can't we start with pumping that much into the national team first for better programs. (i.e. USSF style Bradeton academy)  

In the CFL, Canadian content is roughly 50% of roster with about 10 Canadians are starters per team.  And all CFL teams are developing Canadian players, as most Canadian university players need a bit more development to become regulars in the CFL.  Sure they're doing it to meet the quota, and most of them don't move up to the NFL, but they are developing Canadian players.

 

Money talks - if the Canadian league pays more than NASL or USL, they will get better players - without a doubt.   The only thing that would possibly affect that is if the league is unstable and teams are folding mid-season or not meeting payroll.  So if I'm an agent of a USL or NASL player and I realize my guy can get more in the C-League, I'll pursue it.  To use a football example, if an agent can't get their player (American or Canadian) an NFL deal and they still want to play, they'll try the CFL first.  If that doesn't work out, they'll try the Arena League.  Why the CFL first even if the player is American - because the CFL pays more.

 

Agree the Fury wasn't a new organization, but I'm not certain that was the key to their success.  Sacramento in the USL and Indy in the NASL were brand new organizations and they figured it out from Day 1.

 

The reason the potential C-League owners won't put in their 10M into a Bradeton is simple - nothing in it for them.  Pro soccer is a business for them, as it is for every other pro owner in the world.  The only way a Bradeton happens is if the CSA sets it up with money they solicit, or a private person sets it up to try to make a profit. 

 

Jason

[Macksam]

Fact is, the CSA would KILL to have a league with that much stability and storied history.

If soccer won out back in the day and became the spectator sport of choice, the resulting league would have been much bigger and popular than what the CFL is today.

[ted]

Fact is, the CSA would KILL to have a league with that much stability and storied history.

Yeah, the CFL-bashing is rather silly. I never watch it and care not one whit but they have useful experience in the markets we need to cultivate.

[Jason]

If soccer won out back in the day and became the spectator sport of choice, the resulting league would have been much bigger and popular than what the CFL is today.

???? Oddest comment I've seen in a while.  It didn't win out in the day so that's the reality.  And unless you have access to viewing alternate timelines, there is no way that you can say that.

 

In that vein, if baseball hadn't captured southern Ontario and for that matter Canada's interest in the 80's and early 90's, the CFL would be thriving in Toronto.  In fact, the Argonauts would currently be playing in front of 45,000 sell out crowds every game.  Or, if the people of India chose soccer over cricket as the sport they adopted from their British rulers, they'd be a soccer powerhouse today.  Or if baseball won out back in the day and became the spectator sport of choice in Mexico, the Mexican baseball league would have become a major league on par with the National and American leagues.  It's not the way history happened and speculating about alternatives is nothing more than wild guesses.

 

Sorry if that's harsh, but I can't let a comment like that go unchallenged.

 

Jason

[Macksam]

I was just replying to somebody's else comment. It was a statement nothing more. I'm not speculating on anything. Also, don't apologize as it wasn't harsh at all. It's your opinion.

[Jason]

Next week, Rollins will be interviewing John Pugh of the Ottawa Fury on Two Solitudes.  I don't expect that Pugh will say much as they are still in NASL, but it will be telling what Rollins does or does not ask.  If he completely avoids the C-League, I will get very suspicious.  If this happens, he'll say something like "the process needs to be respected" or "it's a sensitive time for the Fury and C-League and I didn't want to put him on the spot" which will concern me.  A good reporter would ask some questions at least on a story they are breaking.  He may not aggressively go after him for answers, but something has to be asked.  If he doesn't, that calls it all into question (moreso).

 

Jason

So the Rollins interview with Pugh was finally on last week.  He had one C-League question for Pugh: what the thought process would be for the Fury if a new Canadian league were to come about.  Pugh answered carefully that they have a comfort level for where they are right now and they want to play the highest level soccer they can.  That seemed to imply not moving to MLS, but not wanting to take a step down from NASL.  Rollins did not ask a follow up question.  I didn't expect him to go hard after him, but he never asked, "I've been reporting that new Canadian league is coming.  Do you have any comment about that?"  When Rollins started his question, he said there has been some talk of a new league...  That's not what he is reporting.  He is saying it is happening for sure and count on it.  And the one question he asked was prefaced with something like I know you can't say much but...

 

So it wasn't completely unmentioned, but certainly no insight was gained at all re: a C-League.  It did not make me feel like the C-League is a complete mirage, but listening to this interview did not inspire any reason to think it's more likely.  In fact, listening to Rollins ask the question, he made it sound like it was a possibility, not the done deal he has been reporting.

 

Jason

[Dub Narcotic]

It's time for a club to force the CSA's hand on USL sanctioning outside of the MLS clubs:

 

* The regional leagues are fine but they are clearly not D3 despite how many reports the CSA writes. We already see that the biggest use for L10/PLSQ is to get players scouted by the MLS clubs for their USL teams (Raheem Edwards, Johnny Grant and Emery Welshman kind of) and as a PDL replacement for Sigma guys like Cyle Larin, Jay Chapman and Emeka Ononye who are going the NCAA/draft route. They are playing an important role but they are D4 leagues and that is fine. 

 

* The "Rollins League" is nowhere. What are the odds of this happening in 2017? 5-1, 6-1? The national team can't give away its television rights but TSN or Sportsnet are going to throw millions of dollars at an unproven league when MLS doesn't even make money for them? In any case, any such league would be much more successful integrating already established club teams in the future (a point that's been made here a million times) and USL interest exists in markets like Victoria that aren't mentioned as Canadian league possibilities in any case.

 

* The USL teams have been a huge success. First of all, they exist, and will exist next year! Second, there were probably more Canadian minutes this year on these teams than in the whole of MLS/NASL since 2011 (e.g the modern Canadian club era).  85%+ of the U-20 and U-23 teams are USL players this year after only one year of existence.

 

The next step is either for a ownership group, probably Victoria, London or Calgary to get a bid together, or for the CSA to lift their blanket prohibition on new teams in this league to remove uncertainty for the bid groups. Canada has already lost thousands of Canadian pro-minutes because of the inability for interested groups in Victoria or London to get their teams into USL. It's time for the CSA to swallow their pride and stop hurting Canadian club soccer.

[tmcmurph]

+1^^^

[nolbertos]

I agree Obinna. Its time to tell the CSA to put up or shut up and make way. This uncertainty is putting us behind the eightball, not just as clubs but in the national team too for all we know London, Victoria, Calgary, Halifax and I'd love to see a USL club in Nunavut and Yellowknife someday too.