Olympic Qualifying - Canada vs. Mexico March 31st, 2012 GAME THREAD [R]

[villus]

Its tough to progress purely as a ball winner, its usually a guy who has good skills and ability and grows into a ball winner. Its much harder to teach skills on the ball and tactical awareness then it is to learn to become a spark plug ball winner and the problem is that players like Piette sometimes rely on that ability and fall behind in other areas. Thats the trend but hopefully he can buck that and develop further.

[Guest soccer1]

You meant Stephen Hart...Fonseca was just a spectator...

[BearcatSA]

Its tough to progress purely as a ball winner, its usually a guy who has good skills and ability and grows into a ball winner. Its much harder to teach skills on the ball and tactical awareness then it is to learn to become a spark plug ball winner and the problem is that players like Piette sometimes rely on that ability and fall behind in other areas. Thats the trend but hopefully he can buck that and develop further.

Agreed.

[The Ref]

The Mexican team had played 26 games together in preparation for this tournament. Well that was the number mentioned during the telecast.

As I see it there is no doubt in my mind that Mexico is better prepared, has more experienced players, better coaching and resources and simply more money and programs. Any team that plays 26 games in preparation for this tournament should do well. But.... minnow El Salvador who did fairly well, only had a week of preparation. I wonder how much preparation did the U.S. have. Impromptu teams are likely to fall short.

[gigi riva]

You know Mexico was way more talented and experienced while we had the youngest team in the competion and you know I honestly think Canada handled themselves well. The Future is bright. Hey TFC bring back Attakora\,

[ditty]

Just reading through the thread and I agree with a lot of the points made. This was a very encouraging tournament in terms of performance and the sense that these guys have some real pride in playing for the shirt. I was impressed with how we started the game getting forward and created a couple good chances. In a sense, Mexico's first goal was a product of us being pushed forward, losing the ball and them drawing our CB out and exploiting that space. Mexico is head and shoulders above the rest of CONCACAF, particularly at this level. I for one am looking forward to seeing the gap between us and the US start to close now that we 3 pro academies operating. Having coached in youth tournaments in the States, I've felt that they've just had more athletes coming through and a greater pro structure, which we're starting to build.

We scored an excellent goal; the kind of goal you need to score when you're up against a strong side that you're not really going to get numbers forward on. Superb ball by Bekker out to the flank, Davies drew the coverage, waited for Haber to arrive and created space nicely for his cross. And Haber finished so well. He had a good match tonight and it would have been so nice to have an Edwini-Bonsu to play alongside or at least sub in in the 2nd half.

The one area that needs some reflection is how we set-up to play Cuba and how we performed in that match. We don't have to beat Mexico to get where we want to go, but we do need to knock off a team like Cuba.

[Canuck Oranje]

First of all, the Canadian team did better than expected so I'm fine with their performance, especially when you realize that it was youth and inexperience that caused them to miss what could have been an even potentially better tournament outcome. Allowing a goal against a much weaker team(Cuba) in the dying minute and allowing Mexico to score immediately after scoring are both examples of the lack of the mental discipline that comes with such a young group of players.

As for individual performances, I think any player playing at this level and still under the age of 20 has only upside. Yes, there may be a few peaks and valleys but those 17-19 year olds that had playing time in this tournament all will have learned something. The key for them will be to get or stay in good development systems at club level.

In any case, here are some comments regarding some of those individual players who stood out for me:

Lucas Cavallini - While he may not be the fastest player, he does have a lot vision and I suspect club coaches will try to capitalize on that. He's also with Nacional in Uruguay so if he can stay there, he will be in a strong development environment. I also would not be surprised to see him moved to another position over time. I see him in an central offensive midfield position but he could end up sliding back even further on the pitch like Lucas Leiva when he moved to Liverpool.

Russell Teibert - No one should worry about his getting used as a fullback at 19. If I recall correctly, even Aron Winter started his Dutch National team career playing some fullback. It is almost always the regular development path in the Netherlands and Brazil (the countries where I follow club soccer the closest) that young DMs play some fullback.

Doneil Henry - As a young player, I really like the upside that this kid has. I am almost certain Aron Winter feels the same way. He is athletic. He has excellent technical abilities for a centre back and so young. His consistency will improve with experience and I am also confident that his coaches at TFC will carefully manage his development as a centre back. No one should be concerned about his playing some fullback because that again is a normal part of the development process for young CB in the Netherlands and Brazil too for that matter.

Samuel Piette - In this tournament, he had a role to play and performed well as a ball winner. I could see him playing some fullback as well at club level as part of the development process because then he can build confidence in his technique with the ball. Again, only for development purposes. We already know what he can do as a ball winning DM. He needs to improve his technique on the ball. I'm sure he will.

the other U20s Alderson, Fresenga, and Stinson will all develop. Each are in professional setups. Stinson is particularly blessed at TFC because he gets to work with two of the best DMs of the last 20 years on a daily basis.

Some of the older players who caught my attention:

Michal Misiewicz - He has all the tools to be a good GK. He just needs experience and needs to be with a club that will get him that. FC Edmonton is probably a good spot for now but probably needs to move on in a year or so. Europe maybe.

Randy Edwini-Bonsu - If he can stay in Germany and continue to improve his discipline, he can be an important player for Canada in a few years.

With 23 year-old players, the opportunities at the top club level start to diminish. This is going to be a challenge for both Marcus Haber and Nana Attakora. Marcus Haber needs to watch how Danny Koevermans and other successful big CFs play because he needs to take his intensity up a notch and intimidate more in the box. Attakora, to me, is a decent centre back but I'm not convinced of his upside potential and at 23, he needs to find somewhere where he can play regularly (Probably TFC is not the best place for him because he will fall down the depth chart as defenders return).

In the end, I think there are likely a number of players on this team that will see a lot more NT action in the future and I wish them all the best in their continued development.

[Miche]

I recall someone saying in the CAN vs US match thread that a 2 goal lead is tougher to defend than a one goal lead... so the mexicans must be ****ting themselves right now.

haha, yeah I said that it can be, cause it can, though at the time I thought it was the first half lol. But it's cause with an inexperienced team, a 2-goal lead can lull a team into a false sense of security, they relax and start making mistakes. The experienced team gains confidence, scores one and all of a sudden you can't get back on the same page. I could definitely have seen this happen to Canada, not to Mexico.

I'm also rather proud of the boys, looking forward to see how these youngsters progress.

[gigi riva]

First of all, the Canadian team did better than expected so I'm fine with their performance, especially when you realize that it was youth and inexperience that caused them to miss what could have been an even potentially better tournament outcome. Allowing a goal against a much weaker team(Cuba) in the dying minute and allowing Mexico to score immediately after scoring are both examples of the lack of the mental discipline that comes with such a young group of players.

As for individual performances, I think any player playing at this level and still under the age of 20 has only upside. Yes, there may be a few peaks and valleys but those 17-19 year olds that had playing time in this tournament all will have learned something. The key for them will be to get or stay in good development systems at club level.

In any case, here are some comments regarding some of those individual players who stood out for me:

Lucas Cavallini - While he may not be the fastest player, he does have a lot vision and I suspect club coaches will try to capitalize on that. He's also with Nacional in Uruguay so if he can stay there, he will be in a strong development environment. I also would not be surprised to see him moved to another position over time. I see him in an central offensive midfield position but he could end up sliding back even further on the pitch like Lucas Leiva when he moved to Liverpool.

Russell Teibert - No one should worry about his getting used as a fullback at 19. If I recall correctly, even Aron Winter started his Dutch National team career playing some fullback. It is almost always the regular development path in the Netherlands and Brazil (the countries where I follow club soccer the closest) that young DMs play some fullback.

Doneil Henry - As a young player, I really like the upside that this kid has. I am almost certain Aron Winter feels the same way. He is athletic. He has excellent technical abilities for a centre back and so young. His consistency will improve with experience and I am also confident that his coaches at TFC will carefully manage his development as a centre back. No one should be concerned about his playing some fullback because that again is a normal part of the development process for young CB in the Netherlands and Brazil too for that matter.

Samuel Piette - In this tournament, he had a role to play and performed well as a ball winner. I could see him playing some fullback as well at club level as part of the development process because then he can build confidence in his technique with the ball. Again, only for development purposes. We already know what he can do as a ball winning DM. He needs to improve his technique on the ball. I'm sure he will.

the other U20s Alderson, Fresenga, and Stinson will all develop. Each are in professional setups. Stinson is particularly blessed at TFC because he gets to work with two of the best DMs of the last 20 years on a daily basis.

Some of the older players who caught my attention:

Michal Misiewicz - He has all the tools to be a good GK. He just needs experience and needs to be with a club that will get him that. FC Edmonton is probably a good spot for now but probably needs to move on in a year or so. Europe maybe.

Randy Edwini-Bonsu - If he can stay in Germany and continue to improve his discipline, he can be an important player for Canada in a few years.

With 23 year-old players, the opportunities at the top club level start to diminish. This is going to be a challenge for both Marcus Haber and Nana Attakora. Marcus Haber needs to watch how Danny Koevermans and other successful big CFs play because he needs to take his intensity up a notch and intimidate more in the box. Attakora, to me, is a decent centre back but I'm not convinced of his upside potential and at 23, he needs to find somewhere where he can play regularly (Probably TFC is not the best place for him because he will fall down the depth chart as defenders return).

In the end, I think there are likely a number of players on this team that will see a lot more NT action in the future and I wish them all the best in their continued development.

I agree with all your points Canuck But what canada is lacking is that midfield creator we so depratly need. Hopefully a Kid like Aleman will provide that or matbe Cordon both who are 17 and 19 respectivly. At the same time we need more Youth acedemies set up here but that will come in time.

[Free kick]

For the most part this side looked well coached. But you are right about a handfull (maybe) of the player selections for this squad. There was better out there and you mentioned two of them. Maybe the problem lies in the fact that there might pressures to ensure equitable representation and that might trump the notion of selecting the best squad possible.

[Macksam]

I don't think Attakora played that good. The first and second goals were his fault. Henry wasn't too great either but he has time to improve.

[A_Gagne]

As I see it there is no doubt in my mind that Mexico is better prepared, has more experienced players, better coaching and resources and simply more money and programs. Any team that plays 26 games in preparation for this tournament should do well. But.... minnow El Salvador who did fairly well, only had a week of preparation. I wonder how much preparation did the U.S. have. Impromptu teams are likely to fall short.

I thought I heard on one of the broadcasts that ES had been playing together for the better part of a month... could be wrong about that though.

[BearcatSA]

I don't think Attakora played that good. The first and second goals were his fault. Henry wasn't too great either but he has time to improve.

I guess we see things differently because I thought the RB's lack of defensive support coverage was the bigger problem on the first goal and then on the second he, Henry, and Attakora were not quick enough to react to the give-and-go exchange on the edge of the box. Attakora got deked out pretty badly on the third.

With regards to the potential of individual players, I think there's always a danger with overrating and underrating based on the nature of a relatively short tourney. For instances regarding the TFC players involved, Henry certainly has excellent physical skills but I'm not so sure about his on-the-ball technical abilities: the craftsmanship and guile required to play CB will hopefully come over time within a good coaching environment. On the other side of the coin, Stinson was considered second choice for both defensive holding mid as well as at RB and (granted he's still only 19) but as Canuck Oranje points out he also has a good environment in which to learn his craft.

One more point: though there are a range of opinions about Haber's performance or upside, I was quite happy to see him progress in his career considering considering how he got somewhat scapegoated and written off after playing as a CB during the WYC 07. And no, I'm not related to or know him in any way. It was just good to see him come back from that.

Like the rest of us, I wish to thank the squad for the strong effort!

[loyola]

I guess we see things differently because I thought the RB's lack of defensive support coverage was the bigger problem on the first goal and then on the second he, Henry, and Attakora were not quick enough to react to the give-and-go exchange on the edge of the box. Attakora got deked out pretty badly on the third.

Part of the blame for that first goal must go on our keeper (who overall had an excellent tournament) because he hesitated and I think he could've cleared that ball by coming out of his box.

[Gian-Luca]

Part of the blame for that first goal must go on our keeper (who overall had an excellent tournament) because he hesitated and I think he could've cleared that ball by coming out of his box.

I thought so too, but then again Mexican goals were so well taken I find it difficult to blame anyone on Canada (especially given the comparative inexperience and youth of the roster overall vs. their opponents) but rather to congratulate the goalscorers (as much as I hate them). The same could be said about our goal, although I doubt the Mexican keeper would be happy with letting one in through the five hole.

Overall we overachieved with this group and that is great to see, when half the starting line-up is probably eligible for next year's Olympic qualifying tourney it points to better things (hopefully we won't have any unattached players but more MLS-club players at that time). Difficult to argue too much with the scoreline on the night, although we could have used a bit of luck with the Ref's decisions never seeming to go our way especially with the blatant handball that wasn't called prior to the 3rd (and what was the game-killing) goal. Well done to all the boys, they did Canada proud!

[Keegan]

I don't think we overachieved at all, I expected us to finish second in the group and bow out to Mexico. This was a talented team with first team experience, not sure what all the fuss was about at the roster announcement... ignorance is my guess. Next cycle we should have a team that can really challenge for a spot.

[Free kick]

We scored an excellent goal; the kind of goal you need to score when you're up against a strong side that you're not really going to get numbers forward on. Superb ball by Bekker out to the flank, Davies drew the coverage, waited for Haber to arrive and created space nicely for his cross. And Haber finished so well. He had a good match tonight and it would have been so nice to have an Edwini-Bonsu to play alongside or at least sub in in the 2nd half.

The one area that needs some reflection is how we set-up to play Cuba and how we performed in that match. We don't have to beat Mexico to get where we want to go, but we do need to knock off a team like Cuba.

Yes. That was our best goal of the tournament. And the three players that you mentioned deserve a lot of credit on that play. Davies created three of the four goals that canada scored in this tournament. I know that sometimes these tournament can be a one off in terms player performances but, i too, cant understand why he doesnt have club to play for.

[maccaliam]

I guess we see things differently because I thought the RB's lack of defensive support coverage was the bigger problem on the first goal

I too saw the first goal this way. Fresenga was far too slow at coming across and didn't get tight enough to the man who ran in behind our CBs after they had stepped up, and then he could only watch as the mexican pulled away and scored. IMO Fresenga's job should have been to provide the cover necessary but he got caught ball watching instead.

[Obinna]

For instances regarding the TFC players involved, Henry certainly has excellent physical skills but I'm not so sure about his on-the-ball technical abilities

[BearcatSA]

I thought that was the weakest part of Attakora's game and it probably undermines/limits his progress. As for Henry, we'll see how he looks when he gets his minutes after returns to TFC.

[Free kick]

Agreed. He has good pace, He gets to balls exceptionally well, he does a very good job on coverage, seldom gets beaten, doesnt make many defensive mistakes. But when he has the ball at his feet, he is not very inventive or creative.

[BearcatSA]

Agreed. He has good pace, He gets to balls exceptionally well, he does a very good job on coverage, seldom gets beaten, doesnt make many defensive mistakes. But when he has the ball at his feet, he is not very inventive or creative.

Attakora? Henry? Or both?

[Free kick]

Attakora? Henry? Or both?

I was referrig to Attakora.