Whitecaps 2012 Roster Dance

[betterredthandead]

Well Andy looked good in his first game. One down... if anyone saw Peterhead-Rangers you'd know that he is no worse than bocanegra atm.. At least based on the Rangers first Third Division game.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Agreed about O'Brian, looks old but plays with good head and strong anticipation. Also true that Bonjour stepped up, and that RSL were terrible in attack, very flat and uncommitted.

Teibert got a few minutes, an odd tokenistic decision on Rennie's part since he is away with Canada this week. Why not warm up a player not going for international duty, since a few will be gone?

Caps still playing pretty badly, the game was garbage. Mattocks is not a centre striker and wins 10% of divided balls, Camilo is too far from goal most of the day. Even Robson was lost out there. We got a lucky goal, then a fine strike by Richards as their defenders watched admiringly, and we got the points.

Kenny Miller is not going to work out, you can see it. He misses a ball or loses it, and stops dead, no continuity and no bite. He looks like an easy striker to mark. And he was a sub, to me a classic case of someone thinking they can come to MLS to coast and then does so even when he is only getting a 20 minute stint.

Since Rennie has repeated the same line-up for a while, Wed will be good to see some new combinations, at least to force the guy into a bit of imagination.

Will Johnson made no impact, though the program or maybe it was MLS.com said he was not going play for RSL as he was coming off an injury, so I did not expect him out there.

[nolando]

Agreed about O'Brian, looks old but plays with good head and strong anticipation. Also true that Bonjour stepped up, and that RSL were terrible in attack, very flat and uncommitted.

Teibert got a few minutes, an odd tokenistic decision on Rennie's part since he is away with Canada this week. Why not warm up a player not going for international duty, since a few will be gone?

Caps still playing pretty badly, the game was garbage. Mattocks is not a centre striker and wins 10% of divided balls, Camilo is too far from goal most of the day. Even Robson was lost out there. We got a lucky goal, then a fine strike by Richards as their defenders watched admiringly, and we got the points.

Kenny Miller is not going to work out, you can see it. He misses a ball or loses it, and stops dead, no continuity and no bite. He looks like an easy striker to mark. And he was a sub, to me a classic case of someone thinking they can come to MLS to coast and then does so even when he is only getting a 20 minute stint.

Since Rennie has repeated the same line-up for a while, Wed will be good to see some new combinations, at least to force the guy into a bit of imagination.

Will Johnson made no impact, though the program or maybe it was MLS.com said he was not going play for RSL as he was coming off an injury, so I did not expect him out there.

Was there and agree with most points. RSL were very frustrated most of the night although I still sensed early on that they would score and it would finish 2-1. Thought Robson's leadership and defensive tracking was great but his first touch is terrible, sort of looks like a DM that is expected to be a natural AM with this great touch. Of course MLS.com had him listed as second star and were obviously watching a different from me.

Lee had a good first half but messed up a few in the second half and RSL were clearly thinking the same as they attacked down that flank for much of the half. Agree with your points on Mista..err...Miller too.

I didn't think Johnson was too bad playing that LDM role that he often does for RSL where you want a guy to be mostly invisible. Actually was daydreaming of him coming to Caps and filling Davidson's role, although the latter didn't have a bad match either. What did people make of Knighton?

[Sam Brown]

Thought Knighton did well given it was his first start, and the mix up in central defence. I had heard things about his great distribution but didn't see anything spectacular, but maybe he was keeping it simple given it was his first start.

I'll reserve judgement on Miller. I think the fact that he was a sub isn't indicative of what Rennie thinks of him, but is a tactical move ahead of Mattocks and Richards absence on international duty. I've seen sparks from him, and hopefully on Wednesday he can get on the scoresheet.

[tmcmurph]

Agreed about O'Brian, looks old but plays with good head and strong anticipation. Also true that Bonjour stepped up, and that RSL were terrible in attack, very flat and uncommitted.

A lot of RSL's problems were that they kept trying to go up the middle into the no mans' land that was being marauded by Gersh, Robo and JMD. That trio really made things hard for RSL. The only good chances they had were from the wings.

I thought the Caps played a solid game all around and while not spectacular got the job done against the 2cd-3rd place team in the league. Full 3 points is nice.

Our guy Johnson really did well. He is no where near as fast as Richards but used his positioning all night to prevent Richards from just blasting by. Very smart soccer.

[betterredthandead]

Agreed about O'Brian, looks old but plays with good head and strong anticipation. Also true that Bonjour stepped up, and that RSL were terrible in attack, very flat and uncommitted.

Teibert got a few minutes, an odd tokenistic decision on Rennie's part since he is away with Canada this week. Why not warm up a player not going for international duty, since a few will be gone?

Caps still playing pretty badly, the game was garbage. Mattocks is not a centre striker and wins 10% of divided balls, Camilo is too far from goal most of the day. Even Robson was lost out there. We got a lucky goal, then a fine strike by Richards as their defenders watched admiringly, and we got the points.

Kenny Miller is not going to work out, you can see it. He misses a ball or loses it, and stops dead, no continuity and no bite. He looks like an easy striker to mark. And he was a sub, to me a classic case of someone thinking they can come to MLS to coast and then does so even when he is only getting a 20 minute stint.

Since Rennie has repeated the same line-up for a while, Wed will be good to see some new combinations, at least to force the guy into a bit of imagination.

Will Johnson made no impact, though the program or maybe it was MLS.com said he was not going play for RSL as he was coming off an injury, so I did not expect him out there.

I don't see there being any issue with Miller. He is a proven goal scorer for Scotland, Rangers and various English Clubs. Having seen him play probably 50-60 times on TV for Scotland, Celtic and Rangers I really like his play. He plays very well with little attacking support (like Walter Smith playing a 4-5-1 with Miller alone for 90) Let the guy get match fit before we judge him too harshly. I am not a huge fan of Camilo on the wing either, but I'd rather play him there over Salgado. Mattocks has impressed me in every game I've watched him in one area, or another. I'd like to see after Miller gets some more games in and Robson gets even fitter. I think those three will be good together. Hopefully after the international break we get to see them play a flat 4-4-2 for a game, or two.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I don't see there being any issue with Miller. He is a proven goal scorer for Scotland, Rangers and various English Clubs. Having seen him play probably 50-60 times on TV for Scotland, Celtic and Rangers I really like his play. He plays very well with little attacking support (like Walter Smith playing a 4-5-1 with Miller alone for 90) Let the guy get match fit before we judge him too harshly. I am not a huge fan of Camilo on the wing either, but I'd rather play him there over Salgado. Mattocks has impressed me in every game I've watched him in one area, or another. I'd like to see after Miller gets some more games in and Robson gets even fitter. I think those three will be good together. Hopefully after the international break we get to see them play a flat 4-4-2 for a game, or two.

I too think we are ready for a 4-4-2. Put Miller with Mattocks, or Mattocks with Camilo, those three for two spots. The poor Jamaican is not a target man and is lost out there 90% of the time. He is actually no that good in the air, he scored a couple of beauties but look at him, he does not position himself properly to win the ball with this back to a defender. Play Camilo or Richards as an attacking mid on one side, one or the other, let Robson roam a bit too, and Koffie and Jun stay back. We might do more damage, and it is better for when we get up a goal as well to have a more populated midfield.

I recognize that the 4-3-3 gives us width and options as we build up, and helps us keep the ball as we can always find an outside pass, but Richards is right for it and Camilo really is not. He is playing great considering, but it is not his way of playing, he needs to be able to roam as he has the best one on one on the team and can also score.

Harvey: I am surprised by what folks have written, for me he was the worst player on our team last Saturday.

[tmcmurph]

I can see us playing a 4-4-2 on offense but Rennie ALWAYS collapses back to the 4-5-1 on defense (you could call it a 4-1-4-1 sometimes as well but you get my point). The wing players like Camilo and Richards are expected to provide harrasment all the way back to their 18 on turnovers then jump up on offence. That is why LeToux fit so well. He could do that for a full 90 flat out. To play the 4-4-2 the mids and one forward (alternating depending on which side the ball is on) will have to adapt to shifting into position with the mids. It is much easier transitioning from the 4-3-3 to the 4-5-1 (wingers just drop straight back). Maybe with all the new players they haven't worked it out to the coach's satisfaction yet.

[shermanator]

Caleb Clarke got his first action of the year last night, coming on as an 82nd minute sub for Miller. Baby steps....

[jpg75]

Caleb Clarke got his first action of the year last night, coming on as an 82nd minute sub for Miller. Baby steps....

I refuse to accept this happened as it doesn't jive with my black-and-white world view that Martin Rennie hates Canadians.

[Lord Bob]

Whitecaps lost 2-0 in one of the very worst games of the year. You don't win games with Canadians!

[Unnamed Trialist]

Caleb looked competent, though had little time in a bad moment in the game. At least you cannot say he was a step down from Kenny Miller, who I insist: this guy is not going to work and having him not Hassli is a huge step down.

I won't harp on Rennie only signing from the isles, since Robson and it seems O'Brian are going to be positive. But it would be nice to know he has a wider vision of the game than just signing players that have accents he recognizes. Jury still out on that. But compare: the three Colombians at Dallas were wonderful last night, amazing talent, with spark, dribble, tactical smarts (going down easy with a whistle-happy ref when up a goal or two). Unfortunately we do not seem to have a single player, except perhaps Robson, with tactical smarts, with a full and total vision of what is going on. And only two players with a dribble, Camilo and then Robson on those twists and turns.

Thorrington was one of the few players with any desire out there, so I give him credit. A good option in the midfield.

Atiba Harris had one of the worst games you could imagine and if I were coach I would never play him again unless in extreme need.

My feeling about Rennie is that at least he has a concept about how to play, there is an idea. When he made the front three change positions at one point, lasted 10 m, but it helped. He is a bit timid about these decisions and predictable, if he can get out of his shell he´ll do better. Sometimes, though, the idea is bad: we stood behind the ball and did not pressure or defend, and it seems he does not know the difference between positional defensive mode and defending, a team effort to get the ball back. So we played like a conservative visiting team the entire first half.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

Caleb looked competent, though had little time in a bad moment in the game. At least you cannot say he was a step down from Kenny Miller, who I insist: this guy is not going to work and having him not Hassli is a huge step down.

I won't harp on Rennie only signing from the isles, since Robson and it seems O'Brian are going to be positive. But it would be nice to know he has a wider vision of the game than just signing players that have accents he recognizes. Jury still out on that. But compare: the three Colombians at Dallas were wonderful last night, amazing talent, with spark, dribble, tactical smarts (going down easy with a whistle-happy ref when up a goal or two). Unfortunately we do not seem to have a single player, except perhaps Robson, with tactical smarts, with a full and total vision of what is going on. And only two players with a dribble, Camilo and then Robson on those twists and turns.

Thorrington was one of the few players with any desire out there, so I give him credit. A good option in the midfield.

Atiba Harris had one of the worst games you could imagine and if I were coach I would never play him again unless in extreme need.

My feeling about Rennie is that at least he has a concept about how to play, there is an idea. When he made the front three change positions at one point, lasted 10 m, but it helped. He is a bit timid about these decisions and predictable, if he can get out of his shell he´ll do better. Sometimes, though, the idea is bad: we stood behind the ball and did not pressure or defend, and it seems he does not know the difference between positional defensive mode and defending, a team effort to get the ball back. So we played like a conservative visiting team the entire first half.

Agreed, Harris was terrible, Miller has shown us nothing.

I think Rennie has done a great job, and really it's hard to criticize him even where he has faulted, (like starting Harris last night)

[finchster]

I won't harp on Rennie only signing from the isles, since Robson and it seems O'Brian are going to be positive. But it would be nice to know he has a wider vision of the game than just signing players that have accents he recognizes.

Lee (granted played for Tottenham ) and Bonjour are two players who were probably out of Rennie’s comfort zone but he signed them. Most managers will sign players they know or within their network, it makes sense rather than to sign a complete unknown.

Rennie has done far more good than bad with this team so if Miller bombs I give him a free pass. All managers make errors, but it’s how you deal with them afterwards. But, If Miller doesn’t step up his play and Rennie is willing to give him until next year, that’s when I will be concerned with Rennie as a coach.

[Unnamed Trialist]

It was our worst game because we played without any guts for the first half at least. And we had some key guys missing, with Richards on form and Koffie it probably would not have been so bad.

But hey, can't only blame Rennie for that: he put in Atiba who has hardly played and should really want it, and he didn´t want it. He was a liability when if he´d been slightly better he might have actually moved a ball or two downfield dangerously. Big fail in turn. So fine, Rennie gave him the chance, and Atiba helped Rennie make a decision: another player we could replace with a better bench option. Sometimes you have to have the character as a coach to let a player decide for you. Which is why I mention Thorrington, a player who did care about the minutes he got, so I say keep the guy.

Team 1040 commentator is hammering the Southside for the F-You Dallas chant near the end, but the guy (can´t remember name) basically has no argument. Kids should not hear this stuff, oh well, too bad. Kids stare at me all the time at games because I am constantly foul-mouthed, and I say: you are either in the game or not, you are engaged or you are coasting like at the beach. I am not the strange one here, I care, its your folks who are asleep. Don´t come with your Rooney or Ronaldo shirts or your Messi and then not have a clue how much is at stake when any of them play this game, it is war out there and losing is not an option, however much cream and lotion you see them selling.

We do not really pressure rival teams or the ref at all in Vancouver, and we get taken advantage of, familiar story. So I say Canadian kids should learn that rivalry matters and especially when rivals like Dallas are benefiting from favourable reffing and showboating in your house. When they are getting your guys carded and then getting off easy. The ref, garbage (almost 40 fouls), and Dallas with the guy in their pocket. So sure, Fck-U Dallas is a dumb chant, meaning you had no insulting chant prepared for these guys (Dallas is getting sprayed from the air for the West Nile outbreak so that would have been an easy one "Spray them", or "West Nile Dallas", in the longstanding Southsider tradition of high-brow middle class chants). But journalists: stop behaving like Victorian school marms or Presbyterian ministers, it is not your job, you are useless at it and you have no moral authority at all to even mention such things.

[Soccerpro]

Vancouver didn't pressure Dallas at all first half. They let Dallas walk it up to the half way line, I have no idea why. High pressure works in MLS, TFC never does it either, I don't know why.

Atiba Harris was terrible. It seemed like he didn't care. I didn't hear Kenny Miller's name called once, except when he was subbed out late in the game. The Caps just couldn't get anything going last night, they had one isolated man up front and didn't have enough of the ball.

As a neutral, the Caps whined too much to the ref. They were jsut as bad as Dallas was. Barry Robson never stops whining at the ref, every game, it's nauseating.

[The Beaver]

I am actually a big fan of Thorington. The dude always plays like he wants it, and he is effective enough. he has battled a lot of injuries over the years, but he is a good player and is the sort of never give up defensive player that drives the opponent's attacking players crazy. I wonder if Russel is going to get more time soon.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Vancouver didn't pressure Dallas at all first half. They let Dallas walk it up to the half way line, I have no idea why. High pressure works in MLS, TFC never does it either, I don't know why

--------------------

As a neutral, the Caps whined too much to the ref. They were jsut as bad as Dallas was. Barry Robson never stops whining at the ref, every game, it's nauseating.

Agreed, there are only about 30 teams in the world that can keep the ball pressured up high by the likes of an in form MLS team, and none are in MLS of course

As for Robson, I disagree. He is the only one to use pressure on the ref to get an advantage, the rest are like NCAA players, funny how I find that passivity really annoying. From the fans too, but at least Vancouver fans do recognize when a ref is crap, credit to them.

[Lord Bob]

As a neutral, the Caps whined too much to the ref. They were jsut as bad as Dallas was. Barry Robson never stops whining at the ref, every game, it's nauseating.

My defense of Robson would be that he's vocal and he isn't used to MLS refereeing yet. And it does take some getting used to.

[ag futbol]

It would be nice if Craig Forrest found something else to commentate on besides the referee and player's antics every game. He can't seem to figure out that guys do this stuff to get an edge, no different than a "accidental" hard challenge on a team's star player or what have you... Have to say this is probably one of the reasons why I enjoy a neutral broadcast team, the hyperbole is just nauseating for the home side at times under the alternative.

I don't think you can really judge how well the caps have been scouting players as of yet. As for Dallas, it's amazing how one or two players returning from injury or picking up form can make a difference. They looked pretty helpless to start the season, but now they look like a playoff team to say the least.

[Soccerpro]

It appears MLS has suspended Barry Robson for the Seattle derby for all his whining to the ref in the Dallas game. People may not agree with it. Can't say I didn't see it coming though. I don't recall seeing a player whine that much before.

[Unnamed Trialist]

It appears MLS has suspended Barry Robson for the Seattle derby for all his whining to the ref in the Dallas game. People may not agree with it. Can't say I didn't see it coming though. I don't recall seeing a player whine that much before.

That is pretty pathetic, if he is not carded in the game, and the "offense" was seen by the ref, there is no way MLS should be second-guessing the ref's decisions after the fact. In fact it violates a standard FIFA principle of reffing, what the ref sees and judges can only be reassessed if it can be proven that the ref did not see it or made a clear error on the call.

[jonovision]

^ Not to mention that the suspension was announced on the day of the team's next match. Bush league.

[munseahawk]

^ Not to mention that the suspension was announced on the day of the team's next match. Bush league.

According to the MLS release, the 'Caps were advised Friday evening of the suspension before the release came out. Still cutting it a bit too close, IMHO.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

Bad news today, Richards is leaving for free to Burnley next season.