Whitecaps 2012 Roster Dance

[youllneverwalkalone]

I'm not convinced this is entirely "bad" news. Richards had some moments with his pace, but his touch was very much LeToux/Salinas-esque. I'm thinking Robson should move back to his natural RM position and we should 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 this so Miller and Mattocks can play together. They actually looked quite good together for a half in Seattle. Hopefully Camilo will be sold or traded in the near future and Canadian Soccer Jesus can take his rightful spot at LM. Rochat and YP Lee have been taken completely out of the attack having to cover for Camilo and Richards defensively. Wouldn't be a bad time to sign Jaime Peters for some cover on the right side though.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

I'm not convinced this is entirely "bad" news. Richards had some moments with his pace, but his touch was very much LeToux/Salinas-esque. I'm thinking Robson should move back to his natural RM position and we should 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 this so Miller and Mattocks can play together. They actually looked quite good together for a half in Seattle. Hopefully Camilo will be sold or traded in the near future and Canadian Soccer Jesus can take his rightful spot at LM. Rochat and YP Lee have been taken completely out of the attack having to cover for Camilo and Richards defensively. Wouldn't be a bad time to sign Jaime Peters for some cover on the right side though.

It's not bad news in terms of we can replace him, it's more bad news that its ms-management of assets.

We got him for LeToux, and now will let him leave for free for nothing. It would of been nice to get something in return for him, after giving up a quality player.

[youllneverwalkalone]

But allocation money is not real. It disappears at the end of the season. So we got LeToux for free (who's contract is also expiring) and traded him for Richards.

[ThiKu]

It's my understanding we have the allocation money until the conclusion of the 2013 season.

[tmcmurph]

I'm not convinced this is entirely "bad" news. Richards had some moments with his pace, but his touch was very much LeToux/Salinas-esque. I'm thinking Robson should move back to his natural RM position and we should 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 this so Miller and Mattocks can play together. They actually looked quite good together for a half in Seattle. Hopefully Camilo will be sold or traded in the near future and Canadian Soccer Jesus can take his rightful spot at LM. Rochat and YP Lee have been taken completely out of the attack having to cover for Camilo and Richards defensively. Wouldn't be a bad time to sign Jaime Peters for some cover on the right side though.

Camilo has been playing hard defensively the last little while. He was back checking his ass off against Portscum. CSJ (aka RT) will have to take the spot away from Salgado when he comes back. Hard task given how good Salgado played wing left before the injury. LeToux was a work horse both ways and endline to f*cking endline. I got tired watching him. Richards does have to play harder on D but is an upgrade on LeToux.

Agree that Richards loss isn't that big. Nowhere near losing DC. JP on the wing right? Hmmm. That could work. Would be nice to see.

[RJB]

I'm sure that Rennie will replace Richards with an over-the-hill British player, as seems to be the trend.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/08/27/mls_vancouver_whitecaps_davide_chiumiento/?utm_source=Soccer%20Lineup%20RSS-Images&utm_medium=feed&utm_content=MacMahon%20on%20Whitecaps%3A%20Missing%20Chiumiento

This is an interesting take by Martin McMahon on the Chumiento departure, essentially saying it made room for Kenny Miller.

32 year-old Miller, 33 year old O'brien, and 33 year old Robson... this does not build a future. How long are these players expected to last???

[ThiKu]

So I guess no news on Jacob Lensky signing? Or .... this is my hope .... Jamie Peters or even Nana Attakora??? I know I know, Lensky's history, but he's a great player, and this is a club team, not the national team. Peters and Attakora would both be excellent squad guys, and very useful in a first XI on a given day.

But overall the Whitecaps need to make significant changes in off-season.

1. Draft very very well

2. Dump the following: Mitchell, Klazura, Barbara, Thorrington, Harris, Harvey and Nanchoff

3. Dare I say it - also need to transfer/release/trade: Cannon, Demerit

Homegrown signing: Essa??? (Unless Fisk is available, then sign him, or both. Would rather have Essa/Fisk in the 30-man squad, than guys like Harvey and Nanchoff. Though, admittedly, I am thinking with my Maple Leaf-coloured glasses.

[Sam Brown]

I don't really understand why everyone harps on about the age of some Whitecaps players. You see players all over the world in their thirties still playing at the top level, so why is it so criticized in Canada?

Agreed players like Thorrington, Barbara, Klazura, and Mitchell can be released. Not so sure about the others. I want to see what Harris can do when he gets match fit, and personally I like throwing Harvey to close things out when we are hanging onto a slim lead.

While I'd love to have more homegrown players like Essa and Fisk join the squad, I'm not sure they actually fill any need that is evident at the moment. I know we gave up Hassli to Toronto, but I'd really like to bring in a target man striker; not that he needs to be playing every game, but when we play away from home we need someone who can help hold up the ball for us and keep us in possession. If Kenny Miller doesn't work out, I'd like to see the 'Caps try to pull in Peter Crouch as a DP signing. His size with Mattocks speed would be a nice pairing up top.

[tmcmurph]

I'm sure that Rennie will replace Richards with an over-the-hill British player, as seems to be the trend.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/08/27/mls_vancouver_whitecaps_davide_chiumiento/?utm_source=Soccer%20Lineup%20RSS-Images&utm_medium=feed&utm_content=MacMahon%20on%20Whitecaps%3A%20Missing%20Chiumiento

This is an interesting take by Martin McMahon on the Chumiento departure, essentially saying it made room for Kenny Miller.

32 year-old Miller, 33 year old O'brien, and 33 year old Robson... this does not build a future. How long are these players expected to last???

So far only O'Brien has impressed me. Short notice and in you go and plays with either JD or MB like he has grown up with them. Hope his injury isn't too bad. He pulled something last game. A few years with vets as they try to move drafts & academy players up to see who can make it at this level.

The other 2 have not filled the cleats of the players who left yet.

[RJB]

I don't really understand why everyone harps on about the age of some Whitecaps players. You see players all over the world in their thirties still playing at the top level, so why is it so criticized in Canada?

For me, the age represents a short term solution which I don't appreciate. I plan on still being a fan in ten years, and would like my club to look that far ahead too.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

For me, the age represents a short term solution which I don't appreciate. I plan on still being a fan in ten years, and would like my club to look that far ahead too.

You really think an MLS team can think about there roster 10 years from now?

Like come on 10 years ago an MLS team wasn't even an option and your just worried about the future, how about the present so we can have a future?

There a year and a half old, and your mad they haven't got there plan for 2022 yet?

What about guys like Camilo, Mattocks, Bonjour, Koffie and Tiebert, are these guys not young enough or good enough for your 10 year plan?

[Sam Brown]

For me, the age represents a short term solution which I don't appreciate. I plan on still being a fan in ten years, and would like my club to look that far ahead too.

But if you have a need that needs to be filled, you don't go out and pick up a 23 year old who is still learning. You pick up someone experienced, who a young guy in the youth system can learn from.

[ThiKu]

@Sam - re: putting Harvey out to close things out....are you aware that in 2 consecutive performances he was put on the field to "close things out" and the Whitecaps conceded in both those games? Given he did score in one of those games. More dumb luck than skill though.

Kotton: Camilo, Mattocks, Bonjour, Koffie and Tiebert - all are guys that should/must be part of a 10-year plan (5 is prob more logical!). I'd LOVE for those guys to stay with the Caps, become Canadian citizens and be added to the CMNT depth pool for sure. Sounds like Koffie is gonna be sold though, and if Teibert doesn't get serious minutes next year what future does he have with the club?

Signing 33-32-33 year olds is a sign of "win now" - which is OK b/c they do need to win now. BUT, when are we going to sign another guy lke Camilo or Koffie. Young, bright, athletic, talented. Will Ulisses fall into this pool of youngsters with a bright future with th club? Maybe.

Don't forget Rochat is 29, Pyo is 33, Demerit is 33....our back 4 is aging quickly, and they had best address this with guys a heck of a lot younger than O'Brien through draft, trades, and signings within the next 12 months or we're in big trouble. (I might have some of the ages wrong).

Harris has had enough opportunity to "be fit." He's done, as far as I am concerned.

[finchster]

For me, the age represents a short term solution which I don't appreciate. I plan on still being a fan in ten years, and would like my club to look that far ahead too.

10 years? I hate 'future' talk because with some fans they are always waiting for the future and never play in the present. I think Rennie is building a team to last 2-3 years, probably as long as he’s planning to stay in Vancouver and I wish he'd build a little more for the future. However, with the amount of roster turnover in MLS it’s not the end of the world.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

@Sam - re: putting Harvey out to close things out....are you aware that in 2 consecutive performances he was put on the field to "close things out" and the Whitecaps conceded in both those games? Given he did score in one of those games. More dumb luck than skill though.

Kotton: Camilo, Mattocks, Bonjour, Koffie and Tiebert - all are guys that should/must be part of a 10-year plan (5 is prob more logical!). I'd LOVE for those guys to stay with the Caps, become Canadian citizens and be added to the CMNT depth pool for sure. Sounds like Koffie is gonna be sold though, and if Teibert doesn't get serious minutes next year what future does he have with the club?

Signing 33-32-33 year olds is a sign of "win now" - which is OK b/c they do need to win now. BUT, when are we going to sign another guy lke Camilo or Koffie. Young, bright, athletic, talented. Will Ulisses fall into this pool of youngsters with a bright future with th club? Maybe.

Don't forget Rochat is 29, Pyo is 33, Demerit is 33....our back 4 is aging quickly, and they had best address this with guys a heck of a lot younger than O'Brien through draft, trades, and signings within the next 12 months or we're in big trouble. (I might have some of the ages wrong).

Harris has had enough opportunity to "be fit." He's done, as far as I am concerned.

That's the thing though, singing that kind of players takes work, they aren't just standing in a line waiting for the Caps to call.

And still by the whole future concept about 30% percent of the squad fits the bill. Salgado, Koffie, Bonjour, Tiebert, Clarke, Alderson, Mattocks, Camilo, Ulisses, Sylvestre. (possibly Essa and Fisk at some point).

Even Harvey, Knighton, Rochat, Davidson, and Mitchell could contribute for the foreseeable future, they all are under 30.

You gotta get lucky, scout the right team at the right time. Things need to fall into place, like with Koffie. Ulisses might be another, but its really impossible to tell until you get them into the team to play, other wise they could just be another Jarju.

and I wouldn't worry too much about the backline, YP Lee is one of the fittest and consistent players we got. Rochat still has a few years of quality in him. Bonjour is getting better everyday, and OB, and JD provide great Vetrean presence and if ones off form good chance the other will be on.

So maybe another CB next year, but to say we need help in the Backline right now is foolish even with the knocks, we are one of the best defensive teams in the league and our age has hindered us, especially since one could argue Cannon is our MVP and he's gonna have a rascal soon to get around between games.

That being said depth is never a bad thing, and you hope there always looking to upgrade.

[ThiKu]

"One of the best defensive teams in the league"? The Caps are t-9th in Goals Against along with DCU & NER @ 35 GA. 9th, doesn't really define a team as "one of the best."

This was true in the beginning of the season....but not for quite some time.

YP Lee, Rochat are both all-star level. Demerit got there on reputation. Bonjour is fantastic and I hope he is with Vancouver for years to come and gets naturalized. They have some wonderful pieces. But Demerit must be upgraded quickly (within 1.5 years) as it appears he's aging fast. And the depth is concerning to say the least. YP Lee is very very fit, but he can't be played as heavily as he is. He leads the league in minutes played, including GK.

[madmonte]

I think another reason they sign these guys is under the disillusion that big name signings will bring more fans, when their "big names", most average canadian fans have never heard of. Need to do more market research.

[finchster]

I think another reason they sign these guys is under the disillusion that big name signings will bring more fans, when their "big names", most average canadian fans have never heard of. Need to do more market research.

You think so? I think management’s strategy is to win now to bring fans in and signing veteran players gives you a better chance to win, building for the future is irrelevant when you are fighting for fans. The Lions just won a Grey Cup and average almost 10,000 more fans than the caps and the Canucks are among the best teams in the NHL. Vancouver is a horrible sports town in my opinion, Caps management can’t afford to be losers and hope to be relevant, casual fans will turn on you in a heartbeat.

I can’t believe management thinks names like Jay Demerit and Barry Robson will bring people to the game, Robson was a fringe national team player for Scotland and Demerit had a good stretch but was never a star. Kenny Miller maybe, but unless you gave a damn about Scotland Miller was a name you probably heard but didn’t pay any attention to.

[Grizzly]

Seems very strange for the Caps/Rennie to take a team that was winning and playing well and make massive mid-season changes like they did. Especially since many of the guys who they brought in are older and more expensive than the guys they replaced. It is also debatable whether the new guys are an upgrade or even as good as the ones they replaced and even if they are one would have to expect a certain time for them to gel with the new team. As long as a team is also developing its younger players I don't think there is anything wrong bringing in older veteran players to fill certain holes in the team on a short term basis. But why do that when the players you already have are getting the job done? The Caps seem to have gone from a team that was on auto-pilot to make the playoffs and possibly advance in them to one that really needs to watch that they make the playoffs and on present form would be likely to go out in the first round. As the new players get more played in with the team maybe the Caps form will improve but if it doesn't it will really take the shine off what Caps management and Wonder-Boy Rennie achieved this year.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

Yeah, I think the contract talks with DC and LeToux, snowballed Rennie into making changes. There has definitely been way more turnover mid season, on what was a top 3 team in the west at the time then there should be.

There has been a considerable dip in form since then which is well probably better than they could ask for after all the moves.

[madmonte]

You think so? I think management’s strategy is to win now to bring fans in and signing veteran players gives you a better chance to win, building for the future is irrelevant when you are fighting for fans. The Lions just won a Grey Cup and average almost 10,000 more fans than the caps and the Canucks are among the best teams in the NHL. Vancouver is a horrible sports town in my opinion, Caps management can’t afford to be losers and hope to be relevant, casual fans will turn on you in a heartbeat.

I can’t believe management thinks names like Jay Demerit and Barry Robson will bring people to the game, Robson was a fringe national team player for Scotland and Demerit had a good stretch but was never a star. Kenny Miller maybe, but unless you gave a damn about Scotland Miller was a name you probably heard but didn’t pay any attention to.

You misunderstand, I said ANOTHER reason. They also are trying to win now. Ironically though, this isn't working out great for them. They had a winning formula and a winning team and tampered with it, adding too much age, I feel. And yeah, in retrospect they didn't market these guys like everyone should have heard of them already. TFC had done that in the past though, even with absolute nobodies, so perhaps I was projecting a little.

Edit: And then I look up and read Grizz's post and see that I'm practically paraphrasing. Oops. trust me, not stealing your thought process, just on the same page.

[jpg75]

is anyone here know what is asian handicap betting?

I got $5 on the Laosian kid with CP.

[Lord Bob]

is anyone here know what is asian handicap betting?

Putting money on Long Tan.

[nolando]

Shades of Joe Cannon last year: http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/08/29/captain-demerit-he-tackles-and-picks-up-tabs/

[dhawk11]

it's like they play musical chiars before the game and who ever has a seat gets to play