Sept. 4th 2010, Canada v Peru PRE- & IN-match [R]

[Admin]

Seems they're trying that with the OSA for the women's friendly.

For a school night.

:?

There was an OSA deal for this game.

There is also a difference between boys and girls soccer.

Coaches of boys teams are very unlikely to take their team to a mens game. The opposite is often true for girls.

I am too tired to type anything more than, it's odd.

[Saviola7]

A few more thoughts:

-Mexico lost to Ecuador 2-1 this past weekend too. Not a good evening for CONCACAF vs. CONMEBOL.

-re: Nana. Well I sympathize with TFC fans, the point of this series of friendlies is to evaluate players and build cohesion. If Nana didn't look better in training than Straith or McKenna should he start anyway? I say no. I was surprised that he didn't put him in for De Jong though (if he doesn't play LB, surely they could slide Straith over there).

[Gordon]

Sad game really. Most particularly because it was the guys who have played together a whole lot that were disappointing. General observations:

1) Unless we find a centre back with a higher level of skill on the ball we will not be able to play it out. When we are under pressure, we consistently show an inability to do so on the whole. In friendlies, it is exposed only occasionally, as most teams do not use a lot of energy pressing. During WCQ it will be exposed constantly. I would say add Jacovic except;

2) Our defensive mid presence is not good enough defensively. JdG has some nice skill on the ball but his support for the back line has been lacking. I like Bearcat's suggestion that Jacovic should fill that role. We need a stronger support for the back line because;

3) Our back line has to be more aggressive in challenging forwards and mids running at us. In this last game, two Peruvian attackers were running on 4 back, and we still retreated 15-20 yards before even thinking about challenging. Honduras absolutely had their way with us in WCQ converting outnumbered rushes into goals, and it will continue to be an achillies hills because;

4) Too often, we turn the ball over cheaply in the midfield. This is in large measure due to our naiveity in possession, and the inability of most of our players to a) present for passes and recognize when they might be passing a team mate into danger. Our mids seem unable to make good decisions about who to cover when this occurs, as, often, does our back line.

1-4 are our biggest issues right now. The back line particularly is problematic if we are going to play possession soccer.

Our offence is also suffering right now. I think this is the area where we do, at least, have some opportunity to improve relatively quickly. Easiest of course, would be JdG2 and Junior H. deciding to play for us. Our biggest lack is an attacking mid with some imagination. There was one opportunity in the first half, where DDR had a good run to be in position to split defenders and Hutchinson, although looking right at the opportunity, opted to put it out wide. Failing this, we will have to become a set piece, cross/throw in for headers offence if we want to generate anything.

I thought Hart blundered with the Peters substitution. Stalteri played a full season at LB with Weder, lined up there on a couple of occasions for Tottenham as well and has far more expereince than Peters, who is still learning the defender trade. Stalteri should have been moved to LB, and Peters introduced on the right side. A small thing perhaps, but evidence IMO that Hart has to raise his game as well. I have no problem with the subs generally, as they were made on a reasonable basis, and just didn't pan out.

Going forward, I think Hart has to figure out which of this core he thinks he can work with, and start bringing in a younger crowd, particularly for the Gold Cup, where he might have some time to actually work with them for a period of time. We simply are not going to qualify with the group that played Peru (which was, more or less, the supposed first choice team).

I think Straith and Attakora need to become fixtures at central defence. I am hoping that Attakora's alleged athleticism is an actuality as we do need a little more speed in the middle of the defence. With Kluka on the left, only the starting RB position is up in the air IMO.

Midfield has a lot of question marks. I am not impressed particularly with any of our wingers. Jackson showed a bit, but he might be better utilized as a striker in a 4-4-2. If Jacovic is starting a DM, I prefer Hutchinson to JdG and the second starting central midfielder. But honestly, aside form the 2007 GC, none of our "star" midfielders have shown why they have/had decent club careers.

Can't honestly say who from the younger group should have a run out for Hart. I haven't seen enough of them. What I do know is that we will not qualify for the WC, and may even get knocked out in the semis - even with the new format - with this group. They have gone as far as they are going to go, and it is not far enough. There is no real point in continuing with more of the same. Try something different.

[entrenador]

Yes, we need them (us).

Intim0dating, imagine saturday's game without peruvian supporters. We are staying whether you like it or not. We are staying to support canadian soccer and peruvian soccer from the distance.

[phil7777]

I understand that it was not a WCQ but I would've believed that after the Jamaican game things would've been much better.

Also considering the presence of the MLS, the larger soccer media coverage (than Montreal), the large GTA population (doubles Montreal), and I might be wrong but I didn't think there were a large peruvian community in the GTA - I expected alot better.

Again, I don't think things will be better on tuesday here in Montreal - but at least that is expected lol.

[VPjr]

There was an OSA deal for this game.

There is also a difference between boys and girls soccer.

Coaches of boys teams are very unlikely to take their team to a mens game. The opposite is often true for girls.

I am too tired to type anything more than, it's odd.

Club teams, especially rep teams, should be required to attend NT matches, not something you have to beg coaches to organize. The clubs should be buying up the tickets and allocating quantities to each rep team to sell.

However, to do that, ticket prices do need to be lower. You can't stuff a $30 ticket down people's throat. A $12-15 ticket is far more tolerable. If every Rep Team manager was told to allocated $120-$150 of their team budget to buying 10 tickets for an NT match, it would be alot easier to pull that off.

It is important to get the young players out to support the NT and to see high level soccer in person. This is why Milltown FC allows youngsters in for free...we want people to expose their kids to a good level of soccer. I would personally have no issue if the OSA was allowed to buy tickets at a lower price than the general public so that youth clubs can more easily afford to buy up blocks of tickets.

[paul-collins]

I don't disagree with that - after all, it was OSA members that chose not to add a $5 per registrant surcharge to support the CSA. CSA needs to raise their profile with Ontario players and parents to prove that it's a worthwhile investment.

I've seen zero promotion within my soccer association related to OSA or CSA. We're not particularly small. CSA's outreach got to Ajax something like 3 or 4 times this year. wtf?

[BearcatSA]

^Thanks for the acknowledgement Gordon.

1) A long while back we all talked about the need for really good ball playing CBs. You advocated for Klukowski being moved into that spot but I questioned whether he could meet the physical demands as well as the fact that he never plays the spot at club level. I liked what Jakovic brings in that area and he may be ready to go for Tuesday (I think he had been off with injury for awhile prior to his call up?). I like Attakora's 1 v 1 shut down capabilities but I feel his play on the ball isn't that great (he tends to hoof it to nowhere a lot when under modest pressure).

2) Good ballwinners in midfield are harder to find then some believe. At risk of being scorned for supporting Preki, at least he knows the value of having a "gritty" (for want of a better term) component in the middle of the park to allow JDG to do what he does best: link the play from defense to the attacking playmakers. Still waiting for someone to emerge in that spot.

3) I see your point here and there are times when you need to just step up and pull a Cann (bodycheck and hope it's only a yellow), but when you see counterattacks starting from deeper positions with opposing mids behind our mids, then we need a midfielder to be minding the store in that area. I gave Bernier some props last year in the GC 09 QF for sticking Costly a couple of times when he had the ball off a turnover and looked to have a long free run towards our net: that was good awareness on those occasions.

4) In Saturday's game I also was discouraged with the number of midfield turnovers, especially in the second half. You think things are safe, then all of a sudden a Peruvian guy picks off the pass and it's off to the races.

As for Stalteri on the left side, he was having enough trouble coping with the speed of the left sided Peruvian mid: the even faster Farfan and Peruvian wingback (#26, the guy that ran away from Johnson) may have been overwhelming. Maybe that was Hart's line of thought on that move.

[entrenador]

I think it is too late now but Canada should hire a better coach with more experience. But this will not resolve the problem.

[gator]

I mentioned before, I really wanted to see Nana and Cann paired up in Canada shirts, the familiarity of playing together can go along ways! Are they our 2 best CB's, I don't know but I have a feeling they could be our best pairing! I understand why Hart didn't call both and as it turned out we didn't even get to see Nana, he's improving all the time and has alot of upside! I too would like to see Jakovic played in front of the back 4, maybe in tandem with JDG, we have to be tighter defensively for 90 minutes! Hart really doesn't have a whole lot of options that I can see right now especially with the "Canadian" fence sitters! We can critisize JDG and Hutch all we want for maybe not having their best matches but who steps into those roles?

[Macksam]

^^^It would be interesting to finally see how Edgar is for us at CB...maybe even Vittoria to.

[Trillium]

CSA marketing has to step up big-time. Next set of home friendlies they have to pump up the event and have everything ready for the fans (including gear). The Canadian Soccer identity has to be cemented at that time, else the attendance will be similar to what we just had.

The head of CSA marketing is challenged to organize for the amateur events i.e. all star nationals how the heck do you expect someone paid 80k per year who has no on the ground knowledge and less critical thinking skills do do any marketing and promotion to use a quote " give your head a shake".

[paul-collins]

In fact there is no Marketing dept listed on the CSA website. There's a "Business Development" dept but BD is a different animal entirely. (is this who you were referring to?). There really should be a dedicated branch to market directly to the population.

I have no insight on Sandra, she's seemed quite nice when I spoke to her on the phone. I have almost no history with the CSA prior to this summer so don't have any context beyond what I've seen on this site.

[Ivan]

We can critisize JDG and Hutch all we want for maybe not having their best matches but who steps into those roles?

Then we eliminate those roles and change the system. I am a fan of both JDG and Hutch and believe they have something to offer (I will even throw DeRo into this group). However, they did not play well in the last WCQ and if their performances continue to lack quality, we change the system. Put two "destroyers" - Jakovic & (Edgar? - if he gets his siht together) in front of the back 4, a la Van Bommel & Dejong, in a classic 4-2-3 -1. As Gordon says, this becomes much easier to do if JDG2 & Junior come on board - even one of them helps. Otherwise leave it to guys like Jackson, Hume, Simpson, Johnson, McCallum and Peters to try and get it done. Four years is a long time. Guys like Tiebert, Edwini Bonsu and Lindsay may surprise.

But if the same lineup is trotted out game after game with the same results, we have to try something else.

By the way Gordon, great post!

[RS]

I liked what Jakovic brings in that area and he may be ready to go for Tuesday (I think he had been off with injury for awhile prior to his call up?).

I suspect Jakovic was rested on Saturday because he played 120 minutes for DC United in the US Open Cup semi-final three days earlier.

[Jdot]

The truth is people will not show up until they win.

With the best marketing in the world, people will not show up unless they think the team will win. they had a great shot with the WCQ's and failed.

Furthermore, bemoaning it wasnt stacked with Canadian support, misses the fact the supporters groups out performed thousands of Peruvians.

If they were to give people something, aside from excuses....

But, the players obviously have no responsibility. The coach blames the lack of fans. There isn't a winning culture but a losing mentality.

[RS]

The coach blames the lack of fans.

When did this happen?

[Gian-Luca]

Sergio Markarián was hired on August 13 and this was his first match in charge of Peru. (Pardon me if your comment was sarcastic.)

It wasn't meant to be - I wasn't aware of this. However, the players for Peru would still be more familiar with playing with each other based on having more national team games and more club team games together - from the line-up sheet, 6 players play for one club in Peru while another three are teammates for another club. So that is likely to be a factor - but regardless, we looked better in the first half than in the second half, which points more to which coach made the better adjustments at half time. Perhaps with more games together on a regular basis our players would find it more easily to try a "plan B" when "plan A" stopped working, but I question whether there was a plan "B" that the players were aware of or instructed to try. I didn't see evidence of that on Saturday.

[Jdot]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/peru-gives-canada-a-soccer-lesson/article1696593/

Still, the majority of the announced 10,619 in the BMO Field crowd – well short of the venue’s 22,000 capacity for soccer – went home happy, much to Hart’s dismay.

“It was a huge Peruvian crowd and I guess that’s something we have to live with being in multicultural Canada,” he bemoaned after the final whistle.

~ It may be just me, but the south end for 90 minutes was golden. Maybe that wasn't the full quote, but there was a lot of heart in the stands. Families were into it, kids, old young, it was some peoples first game and they sang and jumped.

In my opinion, it sounds like he was blaming other people for not having a pro Canadian crowd. I'm saying its their fault.

[phil7777]

The truth is people will not show up until they win.

With the best marketing in the world, people will not show up unless they think the team will win. they had a great shot with the WCQ's and failed.

Furthermore, bemoaning it wasnt stacked with Canadian support, misses the fact the supporters groups out performed thousands of Peruvians.

If they were to give people something, aside from excuses....

But, the players obviously have no responsibility. The coach blames the lack of fans. There isn't a winning culture but a losing mentality.

Honestly, you have it bang on. People will not show up until they can be proud for that team. Pride comes with wins, it's that simple.

I will continue to encourage people to support the CMNT nonetheless, but the root of the problem is the team's performance, period.

[Grizzly]

The following video from Johntv contains some video of the march and both coach's news conferences. Just before 7 minutes he talks about the Voyageurs and the number of Peruvian fans. This is a flip camera video so I am hoping the link will work but if not let me know: http://sharing.theflip.com/session/fc82ee8b3fe3cc3ee0ea6c2836ce69d4/video/18075687

[BrennanFan]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/peru-gives-canada-a-soccer-lesson/article1696593/

Still, the majority of the announced 10,619 in the BMO Field crowd – well short of the venue’s 22,000 capacity for soccer – went home happy, much to Hart’s dismay.

“It was a huge Peruvian crowd and I guess that’s something we have to live with being in multicultural Canada,” he bemoaned after the final whistle.

~ It may be just me, but the south end for 90 minutes was golden. Maybe that wasn't the full quote, but there was a lot of heart in the stands. Families were into it, kids, old young, it was some peoples first game and they sang and jumped.

In my opinion, it sounds like he was blaming other people for not having a pro Canadian crowd. I'm saying its their fault.

The Globe and Mail should be ashamed of itself. THIS is the full quote:

"Credit to the Voyageurs group who made the 2014 banner and were vocal, but it was still a huge Peruvian crowd," Canadian coach Stephen Hart said of the atmosphere. "I guess it is something we have to live with in multicultural Canada."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/09/04/peru_canada/

[Jdot]

The Globe and Mail should be ashamed of itself. THIS is the full quote:

"Credit to the Voyageurs group who made the 2014 banner and were vocal, but it was still a huge Peruvian crowd," Canadian coach Stephen Hart said of the atmosphere. "I guess it is something we have to live with in multicultural Canada."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/09/04/peru_canada/

Well thats a little better. Still, its about winning. If they win people will come, its not about Canada being multicultural as that people on the Labour day weekend would rather be at a cottage than that game. I dont blame the casual fan on this one. If Canada was winning and ranked 39th, people would be showing up.

I still think its about the team playing and winning games at home as opposed to marketing to draw people out.

[RS]

The Globe and Mail should be ashamed of itself. THIS is the full quote:

"Credit to the Voyageurs group who made the 2014 banner and were vocal, but it was still a huge Peruvian crowd," Canadian coach Stephen Hart said of the atmosphere. "I guess it is something we have to live with in multicultural Canada."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/09/04/peru_canada/

He also said something along the lines of "results will bring more fans" in another article that I'm too lazy to serach for right now (it's posted in this thread a few pages back).

So no, the coach wasn't "blaming" the fans for anything.

Jdot, we have plenty of legitimate gripes to worry about without making more shit up.

[nolbertos]

I didn't want to post, but since I've been reading more Peruvian papers and seeing there feedback on the game, I can tell you that firstly, being Ole'd in your "Home" field is a huge embarassment, particularly when the opposing fans do it in your house. Secondly, Peruvian commentators thought Canadian fans don't give a **** about soccer, as seeing only half the stadium full and majority Peruvian supporters, questioned the sport's "following" here. Thirdly, They were surprised that you were allowed to drink in the stands with aluminum cans and such, as seeing in South America, it's banned, since fans and opposing fans, tend to get violent, which shows a testament of how behaved we are here. I'm not saying that it's bad, but seeing as we don't have a Soccer Culture, doubt we'll throw cans and projectiles at opposing players. Lastly, they weren't as impressed by Canada's team. The only person that got accolades was Jackson I believe or Johnson, the one who played in the right mid. He was making Vilchez look foolish many times, but as as soon as he was subbed out, the creativity that Canada had in it's only player was gone and Peru just passed the ball around like nothing to fear anymore.