The New Mother Of All Canadians Abroad

[BearcatSA]

http://www.readingfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10306~2756901,00.html

Reading have declined the opportunity to extend Gage's contract following their promotion to the Premier League.

Has he signed with anyone yet?

[madmonte]

Has he signed with anyone yet?

I've been watching closely for him and no, not yet.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Simon Thomas has been released from Huddersfield. He trained with the Caps this past week, but it doesn't appear to be an official trial.

[jpg75]

Looks like the Piette to Fortuna Dusseldorf move is official:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/06/26/canadian-exports-teen-piette-inks-fortuna-dusseldorf

I am flabbergasted that Piette is able to sign a pro contract before his 18th bday. I wonder if he has a Euro passport after all and did not sign any amateur contracts with Metz because he was holding out for a pro deal? That has to be the only way he could sign under FIFA by-laws.

I will not be adding Butt or Bounou as they are rep. countries other than Canada.

Still need confirmation that Petrasso and Carreiro have actually signed with QPR and are not just training.

[canucklefan]

I wonder if Piette's exposure with the MNT helped him to sign his pro contract. Congratulations to him.

[madmonte]

I am flabbergasted that Piette is able to sign a pro contract before his 18th bday. I wonder if he has a Euro passport after all and did not sign any amateur contracts with Metz because he was holding out for a pro deal? That has to be the only way he could sign under FIFA by-laws.

I will not be adding Butt or Bounou as they are rep. countries other than Canada.

Still need confirmation that Petrasso and Carreiro have actually signed with QPR and are not just training.

Right as far as I know they are just training, but they have been with the reserves team some time already as I understand it...I can look into that for you.

As for Piette, I remember reading somewhere (probably some researcher on this forum) saying that the rules in France and Germany are different, and he left France BECAUSE you have to be 18 or over. Whereas in Germany you don't. I have NO idea as to the truth of that, however.

[jpg75]

As for Piette, I remember reading somewhere (probably some researcher on this forum) saying that the rules in France and Germany are different, and he left France BECAUSE you have to be 18 or over. Whereas in Germany you don't. I have NO idea as to the truth of that, however.

Yes, that is what was written in the article by Rudi, but that should only apply if the player has a Euro passport to begin with. Someone cannot sign outside their home country (unless they have a passport for that country, or an EU passport and can then sign at age 16) until they turn 18.

[maccaliam]

Perhaps in France a player cannot sign a pro contract until they are 18 - even if they are Spanish - but in Germany they can?

In Spain clubs can't sign players until 18, which is why arsenal keep trying to steal Barca's academy players because in England pro contracts can be signed from 16. I think Holland is 18 as well.

http://www.footballtransfertavern.com/2011/04/premiership/arsenal-legal-but-immoral-comments-way-off-the-mark

[Alex_K]

You can not sign a pro contract in Germany before you are 18. However, amateur players also sign contracts and can get payed without restrictions (this often confuses foreigners, and I should just have linked to one of the tons of posts over on BigSoccer I explained this already ). Instead of pro and amateur, think of it as league and non-league (reserve and youth teams fall under the latter too), the difference lies in some legal details mostly.

[jpg75]

Perhaps in France a player cannot sign a pro contract until they are 18 - even if they are Spanish - but in Germany they can?

In Spain clubs can't sign players until 18, which is why arsenal keep trying to steal Barca's academy players because in England pro contracts can be signed from 16. I think Holland is 18 as well.

http://www.footballtransfertavern.com/2011/04/premiership/arsenal-legal-but-immoral-comments-way-off-the-mark

Correct. I believe the Italians have the same stipulations as well.

Alex, yes, clubs can sign players to amateur youth contracts which tie them to the club. However a lot of players will just let their youth contracts expire and sign pro deals with English clubs at age 16 or 17 (Paul Pogba, Gael Kakuta etc.).

[maccaliam]

I've jsut realised that I slightly mixed up my nationalities (The Spanish player in France should have obviously been French) but it seems my point was received anyway.

Perhaps Alex is saying that somehow Germany has a rule which is different to what the other European countries have, such as Spain, France, Italy, etc., when trying to tie down U18s? I don't recall many (any?) German youth players leaving to play in England at 16/17, taking advantage of this the way you see other nationalities doing so. Perhaps they have though and I just have a terrible memory...

[jpg75]

Players can move within the EU at age 16, whether they can sign pro deals is contingent upon the rules in the country of the club they move to...if that helps? And yeah looks like German players can sign "pro contracts" in Germany before 18, but they're just not call that.

[Alex_K]

I don't recall many (any?) German youth players leaving to play in England at 16/17, taking advantage of this the way you see other nationalities doing so. Perhaps they have though and I just have a terrible memory...

It happens regularily (see especially the second post in thread, although it's a bit older already):

http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/germans-abroad.1029779/

[Alex_K]

Players can move within the EU at age 16, whether they can sign pro deals is contingent upon the rules in the country of the club they move to...if that helps? And yeah looks like German players can sign "pro contracts" in Germany before 18, but they're just not call that.

Until 2008*, officially only the top two divisions of German football were professional (and professional football wasn't introduced in Germany until 1963 in the first place).

*since then the 3rd division is also considered professionall, but de facto the situation hasn't changed, since the definition of League and Non-League football is still the same.

This lead to players basically having one of three statuses:

- "licensed player" (League football): this is what is understood as a professional player in the strict sense. A player who has signed a contract with one of the 36 Bundesliga clubs. A player has to be over 18, and the contract has to be approved by the League. It's also subject to League rules.

- "contracted player" (Non-League football): everyone else who gets payed more than 250 Euros/month from their club has to sign a contract too. This goes from the German 3rd division to the lowest level, and also includes players from the reserve or youth sides of pro clubs. Length can be 1 to 5 years for players over 18, players under 18 can only sign contracts for 1 to 3 years.

- players without contracts: everyone who gets less than 250 Euros/month for playing. Players are still tied to their club since they have to be registered with the German FA. This only affects players leaving during the season, however - since no player is allowed to switch to another club during the season, unless their old club allows it. Players can always leave after the season, though, since they don't have a contract.

[maccaliam]

^ Thanks for that Alex. So Piette could be one of the "contracted players" (or another way to say it could be "non-amateur").

Edit: Perhaps because he wouldn't be considered a "Licensed Player" he can move, play and get paid by a German club without breaking FIFA's rule about U18 player movement?

[Grizzly]

Until 2008*, officially only the top two divisions of German football were professional (and professional football wasn't introduced in Germany until 1963 in the first place).

*since then the 3rd division is also considered professionall, but de facto the situation hasn't changed, since the definition of League and Non-League football is still the same.

This lead to players basically having one of three statuses:

- "licensed player" (League football): this is what is understood as a professional player in the strict sense. A player who has signed a contract with one of the 36 Bundesliga clubs. A player has to be over 18, and the contract has to be approved by the League. It's also subject to League rules.

- "contracted player" (Non-League football): everyone else who gets payed more than 250 Euros/month from their club has to sign a contract too. This goes from the German 3rd division to the lowest level, and also includes players from the reserve or youth sides of pro clubs. Length can be 1 to 5 years for players over 18, players under 18 can only sign contracts for 1 to 3 years.

- players without contracts: everyone who gets less than 250 Euros/month for playing. Players are still tied to their club since they have to be registered with the German FA. This only affects players leaving during the season, however - since no player is allowed to switch to another club during the season, unless their old club allows it. Players can always leave after the season, though, since they don't have a contract.

The German professional and amateur statuses seem to be largely legal semantic terms since there are players earning very significant salaries who would be classified as fully professional in almost any other country but are classified as amateurs in Germany. There are also teams in the lower divisions who have very high payrolls but who are also officially amateur clubs. Red Bull Leipzig for example is a 4th division side that has former and current national team players on its roster. I have never quite understood why the German system is as it is but there must be advantages to the clubs/leagues as far as taxation, legal regulations purposes go. It is a very bizarre system to say the least.

[Alex_K]

The German professional and amateur statuses seem to be largely legal semantic terms since there are players earning very significant salaries who would be classified as fully professional in almost any other country but are classified as amateurs in Germany. There are also teams in the lower divisions who have very high payrolls but who are also officially amateur clubs. Red Bull Leipzig for example is a 4th division side that has former and current national team players on its roster. I have never quite understood why the German system is as it is but there must be advantages to the clubs/leagues as far as taxation, legal regulations purposes go. It is a very bizarre system to say the least.

It's mostly a problem of translation.

Originally only the Bundesliga was professional, everyone else was amateur (and even in the Bundesliga, not all clubs went full time until the 1970s). Therefore, professional was synonymous with the Bundesliga, amateur with clubs outside of the Bundesliga. Now, over the years clubs from outside of the two Bundesligas also went pro (as in: they started to pay their players living wages). However, the categories professional (for clubs in the Bundesligas, run by the German Football League) and amateur (for clubs from the other leagues, run by the German FA) were kept, even if it was a relic from decades ago, strictly speaking.

As I said, in translation League and Non-League, after the English example, would be better translations for people not familiar with German football. Since this is what it largely means these days. Calling players amateurs even if they make a living from sports just confuses people not familiar with the history of the terms.

[gator]

Marcus Haber just tweeted that he won't be going back to St. Johnstone for the upcoming season! Who knows why but I think that's too bad because he seemed to be doing well there! I hope he can catch on with another club soon and continue to progress! TFC could use another big striker!

edit: A further tweet revealed he has signed with Stevenage in League One! That could be a good move for him!

[Guest Ed]

Ricketts doing well on trial at Dynamo Dresden. He is one of 11 trialists for the B2 side, 2 strikers (Toussaint and a Ugandan).

Game report from yesterday:

VfL Pirna-Copitz - SG Dynamo Dresden 0:8 (0:3)

Dynamo

1. Halbzeit: 41 Mittag – 4 Gueye, 5 Brégerie, 6 Jungwirth, 27 Schuppan – 25 Koch, 19 Papadopoulos, 11 Losilla, 8 Trojan – 9 Fort, 29 Ricketts

2. Halbzeit: 41 Mittag – 20 Köz, 28 Franke, 37 Leistner, 21 Subasic – 38 Müller, 24 Solga, 40 Fiel, 32 Renouard – 31 Genausch, 17 Jungnickel

Pirna-Copitz

23 Lohse (1 Hennig 45. ) – 3 Bandulewitz (4 Hahn 73.), 15 Geißler, 2 Hempel, 5 Telatko (11 Schmidt 64.), 18 Paulus (16 Schumann 45.) – 6 Pietsch, 13 Reck (14 Hartmann 45.), 8 Braun, 10 Islamovic - 9 Kleber (7 Kretschmar (70.)

Tore: 0:1, 0:2 Ricketts (11., 12.), 0:3 Koch (31.), 0:4 Fiel (63.), 0:5, 0:7 Jungnickel (69., 79.), 0:6 Renouard (78.), 0:8 Genausch (82.)

Willy-Tröger-Stadion: 2.476

Gelbe Karte: Schumann, Pietsch, Jungnickel (SGD)

Schiedsrichter: John Köber

[nolando]

Ricketts doing well on trial at Dynamo Dresden. He is one of 11 trialists for the B2 side, 2 strikers (Toussaint and a Ugandan).

Game report from yesterday:

VfL Pirna-Copitz - SG Dynamo Dresden 0:8 (0:3)

Dynamo

1. Halbzeit: 41 Mittag – 4 Gueye, 5 Brégerie, 6 Jungwirth, 27 Schuppan – 25 Koch, 19 Papadopoulos, 11 Losilla, 8 Trojan – 9 Fort, 29 Ricketts

2. Halbzeit: 41 Mittag – 20 Köz, 28 Franke, 37 Leistner, 21 Subasic – 38 Müller, 24 Solga, 40 Fiel, 32 Renouard – 31 Genausch, 17 Jungnickel

Pirna-Copitz

23 Lohse (1 Hennig 45. ) – 3 Bandulewitz (4 Hahn 73.), 15 Geißler, 2 Hempel, 5 Telatko (11 Schmidt 64.), 18 Paulus (16 Schumann 45.) – 6 Pietsch, 13 Reck (14 Hartmann 45.), 8 Braun, 10 Islamovic - 9 Kleber (7 Kretschmar (70.)

Tore: 0:1, 0:2 Ricketts (11., 12.), 0:3 Koch (31.), 0:4 Fiel (63.), 0:5, 0:7 Jungnickel (69., 79.), 0:6 Renouard (78.), 0:8 Genausch (82.)

Willy-Tröger-Stadion: 2.476

Gelbe Karte: Schumann, Pietsch, Jungnickel (SGD)

Schiedsrichter: John Köber

Thank god he's off that sinking ship.

[villus]

Good for him, I think the B2 would be an ideal spot for him.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Marcus Haber signed with Gary Smith and Stevenage FC.

[jpg75]

Marcus Haber signed with Gary Smith and Stevenage FC.

Based on their squad list Marcus seems to have the most pedigree of any striker on the club. Good luck to him.

[madmonte]

Based on their squad list Marcus seems to have the most pedigree of any striker on the club. Good luck to him.

Definitely a positive move for Ricketts! Not sure about Haber's move being all that positive...Stevanage doesn't have a huge stadium, they max out at 6722...so based on that, a name like Haber would actually be a big signing for them. (I know it's not necessarily all the time, but when in doubt, I tend to go by attendance figures to figure out how much money a club has for promotion potential. The more money, the bigger names they can sign?)

So good for Ricketts, and good for Stevanage to pick up a player I think will do well for them.

[JamboAl]

Interesting move for Stevenage. They are a very ambitious club who were in the Conference 3 seasons ago. Haber may be a decent fit as they do play a bit of a battering ram type of football.