superbrad Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I agree with Ed. You don't dump a euro premier league player from your team for a guy who can't make an MLS team - nat. stats aside. The guys got touch. I'd be more apt to blame the midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 How about this: we need both Ali and Friend, as we do not score enough. We also need each to improve their game as they have a poorer strike rate than some of our CONCACAF bretheren, and certainly our UEFA competition. Even Kevin McKenna can be valuable as an option in that regard. Our problem is the kind and level of service provided to these strikers from our mids. Some of the crosses are poor, and the ones I think are excellent are from Klukowski, who's a defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 quote:Originally posted by redhat How about this: we need both Ali and Friend, as we do not score enough. We also need each to improve their game as they have a poorer strike rate than some of our CONCACAF bretheren, and certainly our UEFA competition. Even Kevin McKenna can be valuable as an option in that regard. Our problem is the kind and level of service provided to these strikers from our mids. Some of the crosses are poor, and the ones I think are excellent are from Klukowski, who's a defender. Sounds about right to me. And here's a head scratcher - according to poster on the usector board who read Polish media reports after the game, apparently the Polish team thought that Lars was Canada's best player on the day. Wtf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 quote:Originally posted by redhat Our problem is the kind and level of service provided to these strikers from our mids. Some of the crosses are poor, and the ones I think are excellent are from Klukowski, who's a defender. And that's why I would like to keep him at LB and not CB or defensive holding mid as a few have suggested in past threads: he gives us that important offensive dimension we need from the that position. I think the service problem has as much to do with the current roles of our midfielders: too often De Guzman and Hutchinson are taking turns doing the deep-lying distributing role and aren't as pushed up the field for the offensive, creative tasks. That's why I think a good holding mid is needed, either someone who serves in the Grande/Nash distributor role receiving the ball from the back four and pushing it forward, or someone who can provide a quality defensive shield to mind the store while the other mids go on walkabout. Or both, which I think the current player I have in mind for that task can do effectively and give us that balance we need in our midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 ^ I was really hoping/expecting we'd get that from Imhof last cycle. Unfortunately Mitchell didn't play him against Jamaica and then he got hurt. Now he's retired from the MNT and there's really no one else i can think of (except maybe Jakovic) that would provide what he brings to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA And that's why I would like to keep him at LB and not CB or defensive holding mid as a few have suggested in past threads: he gives us that important offensive dimension we need from the that position. I think the service problem has as much to do with the current roles of our midfielders: too often De Guzman and Hutchinson are taking turns doing the deep-lying distributing role and aren't as pushed up the field for the offensive, creative tasks. That's why I think a good holding mid is needed, either someone who serves in the Grande/Nash distributor role receiving the ball from the back four and pushing it forward, or someone who can provide a quality defensive shield to mind the store while the other mids go on walkabout. Or both, which I think the current player I have in mind for that task can do effectively and give us that balance we need in our midfield. Do tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigorio Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 i don't understand how people can complain about how Lars played against Poland... Sure he was a little rusty but he made endless incredible saves... I just don't understand how anyone can complain. He surely was our best player. Is that so crazy?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Seriously? He made one amazing save in the second half but the rest of his saves were saves he should make from shots taken 30 yards away. His decision making on high balls was scary (punching more air than ball) at best and he made 2 crazy plays with his feet. Had Poland taken advantage of those mistakes in the first half they would've scored at least 4 goals. He just didn't look like someone who could inspire confidence on his defense on that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaliam Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 ^ I was really hoping/expecting we'd get that from Imhof last cycle. Unfortunately Mitchell didn't play him against Jamaica and then he got hurt. Now he's retired from the MNT and there's really no one else i can think of (except maybe Jakovic) that would provide what he brings to the table. If we could somehow get Tam Nsaliwa back I think we would have a good defensive mid/right back option. Unfortunately, I dont see that happening anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 quote:Originally posted by maccaliam If we could somehow get Tam Nsaliwa back I think we would have a good defensive mid/right back option. Unfortunately, I dont see that happening anytime soon. Personally, I think Edgar might fit into that role. He's defensively responsible and should be able to distribute adequately. I'd just like to see him play a little more regularly. Jakovic would be the best there but he's far too important to the backline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 quote:Originally posted by maccaliam If we could somehow get Tam Nsaliwa back I think we would have a good defensive mid/right back option. Unfortunately, I dont see that happening anytime soon. Personally, I think Edgar might fit into that role. He's defensively responsible and should be able to distribute adequately. I'd just like to see him play a little more regularly. Jakovic would be the best there but he's far too important to the backline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Lord Bob Probably true, but are we ever going to get that kind of wing play? Is there any prospect of us dreaming of possibly maybe ever having that sort of lineup? We can probably produce an adequate winger within the next 3-4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre Jakovic would be the best there but he's far too important to the backline. Well, that's the guy I'm thinking of and as much as I like his value and continued potential in the backline, here's my train of thought. First off, he's not that long removed from being a midfielder, so it wouldn't be an absolutely alien position for him to play in front of the back four. As well, having been a sweeper in a back three at club level, Jakovic's game reading instincts, positioning, pace, and tackling skills get transferred to snuffing out the real danger to our back line, which is the service provided to opposition strikers. We are simply not closing that down effectively and consistently enough with the current playing staff on display. Secondly, we get a guy whose comfortable on the ball while under pressure and who also has good distribution skills; the one thing I would be concerned about is his tendency to dwell on the ball too long from there, but if he demonstrates quick, simple one and two touch passing to either fullback from passes given to him by the CBs then he's executing a simple yet effective game plan. And finally (and this is the big "IF", however) if the continued development of a young athletic and heady CB like Attakora (speedy, strong, good air, effective positioning) teamed with an organizer like McKenna (I'm trusting that the guy I saw at the last GC is more the geniune article as opposed to the match reports I saw last week) might give us enough compensation to push Jakovic up one level. I realize this is a big reach and many (including the manager) may dismiss it immediately but that's my logic and this January camp and friendly(lies) is a good time to think "outside the box" and experiment: Hainaut-----Attakora----McKenna(German winter break?)--Ledgerwood(?) ------------------Jakovic---------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola "Canada prepares for Poland" http://www.canadasoccer.com/news/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=3878 Interesting quote from Hart about Radzinski: “Tomasz has been a big influence for our national team, but more importantly he is an excellent role model for our younger players,” said Hart. “Historically, Canada has not had the strikers of Tomasz’s quality. For me it’s never about the age but more about how the player performs. As long as he continues to perform I will gladly continue to call him.” Here's the interview with Radzinski and Hart, along with a few game clips, including the goal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4W3TYmtiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Eight players in the box, marking four polish players and they still score? what a disgusting display of concentration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Eric Eight players in the box, marking four polish players and they still score? what a disgusting display of concentration. One could write a book about the number of mistakes on this play. Despite all the rave reviews of Klukowski and Jakovic they are the defenders most at fault on this goal because they are completely out of position. We have 8 men in the box but the Poles actually outnumber us because only 3 of the 8 are actually trying to mark a player while the other 5 are doing sweet f-uck all. The 4 Polish attackers are all on right while 5 of our players are on the left and thus unable to do anything on the play. Those 5 players are both in the wrong position and seem to have no concept of actually taking a man to mark. These players were JDG, Jakovic, Klukowski, Hutchinson and Peters. Once the ball is crossed Peters looks like he is going to go for a Sunday stroll and isn't even trying to get back involved in the play. Why is a striker Radzinski the guy trying to shut down the attacker where the right back should be? No wonder when Radzinski is coming from striker position that he doesn't quite get there in time. And before we go blaming Stalteri, he switched into the centre for the corner so someone who is playing on the right had to cover that side when the corner was headed out of the box by Friend. Most likely this should have been JDG on the right post who instead goes for a leisurely jog forward. Then what the hell was DeGuzman doing when the ball came back into play and he is running where there is noone he can cover and no chance of getting the ball? Where was the experience that he learned in La Liga on this play? Jakovic and Klukowski also jog forward instead of getting back into position which also leaves McKenna totally exposed and playing two positions at once (and it would have been three position if Stalteri wasn't covering the other CB position). And most amazingly the guy who is the furthest defender back is our other striker, Friend. A USL team could have scored on us on that play let alone a national team. The finish was good though and you can't really blame any of the 3 defenders (Stalteri, McKenna and Friend) on the play once their teammates abandoned them and the Polish guy got the ball. If one looks at the play from the previous corner one sees a terrible tactical setup to defend the corner. We have the whole team in the box except for Radzinski while the Poles only have 5 players in the box. Of course what happens is Friend wins the ball and heads it to Radzinski who is alone and getting pressured with noone to pass to so he kicks it up the field and the Poles bring it quickly back into play. How can one defend a corner by putting so many in the box that we are destined to lose possession even if we win the ball? Do we really need 10 men to cover 5? It also doesn't help that noone runs with any urgency on the play or bothers to get back in position. This implies both that the team was not properly coached by Hart on standards (it might have been understandable in the Macedonia game but by this time he had them in camp for several days) and also a lack of awareness on the players parts on what to do on such plays. Neither are particularly pleasant scenarios to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 ^Well put. I counted eight Canadian players tracking back in a neat row as the cross came in. Not one of them was marking a player. As the ball dropped in the box it was too late, Poland were two steps ahead. Coaching is probably to blame for having so many players so deep as we couldn't effectively play the ball out once we won it, but I'm not going to blame Hart for the collective brain fart I saw there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaliam Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 ....and worse, had Lars somehow managed to make the save on the shot there was only a Pole (#5 I believe it was), who had no Canadian within about 5 feet of him, waiting for an easy tap in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4W3TYmtiro mckenna totally out of position and stalteri burned on that goal. we need a new backline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan mckenna totally out of position and stalteri burned on that goal. we need a new backline. Fail. McKenna playing both left back and CB because Klukowski is nowhere to be found and Stalteri playing both right back and CB because Jakovic is nowhere to be found. It is possible either might have done better on the play but both were in a very bad position when their defensive partners completely bailed on them. Two defenders trying to do the job of 4 are rarely going to look good on the play. McKenna didn't have much choice but to go after the first guy with the ball leaving Stalteri to cover the other guy with noone to help him and being forced to cut off his way to the goal leaving him vulnerable to quite well done fake that the goal scorer did. Plus, one or both of Peters or JDG needed to cover the guy who crossed the ball in the first place instead of forcing Radzinski to try and get back to do it while those two were drinking tea. I think it is well known that I have never been the biggest fan of McKenna as a defender and Stalteri seems to be declining due to age/lack of playing time but they are not the ones to blame on this goal. It would be nice if they were since they are near the end of their international careers but along with Friend and Radz they were the only ones who did anything to try and prevent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Grizz, look at Kluka position on the corner kick. He is at the first post. We are talking about a situation coming from a corner kick where we have to assume players have different assignment. So you can't expect Kluka to be on the left side on that play when he was used to cover the first post. BTW, I'm not too sure Stalteri could've done much with that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola Grizz, look at Kluka position on the corner kick. He is at the first post. We are talking about a situation coming from a corner kick where we have to assume players have different assignment. So you can't expect Kluka to be on the left side on that play when he was used to cover the first post. BTW, I'm not too sure Stalteri could've done much with that situation. JDG is on the first post not Kluka. Kluka is on the far post and then after the corner inexplicably runs into centre right and too far forward. Had he stayed on the left as he should have there is probably no goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 No, Kluka is level with the first post (I know JDG is covering the post). In fact, he is a step ahead of the first post (in between CK and first post). Kluka is the player ahead of Rob Friend who headed the ball. I think Stalteri is at the far post. Kluka is tall, no way you ask him to cover a post on a CK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 ^^ I have watched the play several times and it is hard to tell who is who and you are probably right that Kluka is near the first post. Nevertheless I don't agree that he is not to blame for getting back into position since he only had to go to the left side of the box and there is ample time. If he does so there is no goal. Instead both he and Jakovic decide to go for a jog up the field with 3 other Canadian players like they are midfielders. If he is taking an assignment why is he not covering anyone? Then he sticks out a hand at a Polish player who he is near but afterwards completely ignores this player and runs to where he is useless. Again, despite all the criticism Friend is getting for his lack of goal scoring, why is he one of only four guys (Radz, Stalteri and McKenna) that realizes I need to be in a position to defend if the ball comes back? The other 6 players seem to make a group decision to do something really useless while not making much effort. What really bothers me about this play is that it shows a combination of some very bad coaching (not giving players exact roles and instructions on standards and allowing them to give a half effort) and some really bad football schooling on the part of our players who are all playing at a level where they should not be doing this. Additionally, there seems to be a lack of desire and motivation. These seems to be very serious long term problems that extend beyond giving up one bad goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Sorry for digging up this old thread. I know that I am two and half weeks late and most of you guys are over this game, but here are the thoughts of somebody who was in the stadium: First off, I thought it was really classy of Poland (if not a bit weird) for them to make a pregame presentation to one of our players (Radzinski). He received a warm reception from the Polish crowd and there were a few Fulham Radzinski kits sprinkled throughout the stadium. I was really surprised that Simpson did not get the start. He was a rare bright spot against Macedonia. I understand that Hart probably wanted to take a look at De Jong but I believe that we need to reward our players for their good performances and keep improving on what we do well. Making this swap to the starting lineup was not a smart move in my opinion. Besides that, Hart really had no other choice about who to play. Bernier and Hastings were both injured so the lineup picked itself. I don't know how good the feeds were that you were watching but I seem to disagree with a bit of what has been written regarding individual players and their performances, specifically Peters and Friend. Unfortunately, Jamie Peters does not have a footballing brain. He may be an athlete but he isn't a footballer. His positioning and reading of the game are poor. I can not count the amount of times he did not give Stalteri a proper outlet on the right hand side and simply stood there despite being marked and offering no passing angle. These inevitable led to numerous turnovers or simple boots down the field by Stalteri which I say were not entirely his fault. Stalteri's performance, although not great, was still better than anything I think our alternatives at that position have to offer. Peters may be an option at RB, but based on this performance he is not the answer on the right side of our midfield. On the other side of the field, De Jong did not really impress. We were continually being caught in possession and trapped with the ball by the touchline. So many 'attacks' were broken up in this fashion. De Jong's corners were very poor. Initially, he was taking the corners on the left while Klukowski ran over to take the ones on the right. After a few dreadful ones by De Jong, Klukowski started taking all of them. Speaking of Klukowski, you could still see his class but he had some unusual brain farts. This seemed to be the case with most of our players including Hirschfeld and Jakovic. Dejan had a very good game overall but on two occasions he over committed or misjudged bouncing balls which led to great Polish chances. He needs to cut these out of his game. If he can, he will be a stud. In any case, I think he is our best option at CB right now. I don't really know what to say about McKenna. I thought his Gold Cup performances were fine. His speed used to be my only concern but his decision making in these two games really has to be questioned. Combine that with the infighting that took place with Stalteri against Macedonia and you have to wonder...Hopefully Straith and Nana aren't too far away from fighting for this position. Our central midfield pairing was not where we know it can be. Lets be honest, they did not get much help from the wings but De Guzman and Hutchinson were simply overrun. Julian seemed to want to do too much when he had the ball. The pair did not break-up enough Polish attacks and seems to lack bite. Over 2 games, our midfield was just too lightweight against these European opponents. Upfront, Radzinski proved that he still has something to offer. He is not a 90 minute guy, that is for sure, but I believe Hoilett's commitment will determine how much of a role Radz still has to play with the MNT. I don't care what the goal scoring numbers say, in both the Macedonia and Poland games, Canada played its best football when Rob Friend was on the field. There was some promise at the beginning of the second half against Poland, and once Friend was subbed out, it all went to ****. He does some things that Hume or Jackson simply can't do. Holding up the ball, including the midfield, occupying defenders and importantly helping out on set piece defending which was otherwise dreadful without him. I thought El Hombre's stats were incredibly insightful and bear this out. With a little more time together, Radz and Friend could develop some chemistry. Although they may have been on the field at the same time in the past, I think this was the first time that they were paired together as a front two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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