Jamie Knight-Lebel

[An Observer]

4 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Still a catch 22 in a lot of way.  For a pairing, I don't want Miller in there - too many individual goals against - but...

Though Cornelius has been playing almost exclusively in a back 4 this year, it has been with Pontuss Jansson - club legend at this point - as his partner. No idea if he is learning to be a leader or just letting the natural leader do it. 

Bombito is what he is, brand new to regularly starting at a decent level. 

Cornelius-Miller-Bombito is my best solution at this juncture.  Cornelius or Bombito should be able to take over the middle but there is no guarentee of that yet.  Don't think we can play Miller and Johnston together but Johnston is on plane obviously. Waterman runs the middle in a 3 all the time - how well is the question. You bring LDF.  

So at that point, not sure you have room for Knight-Lebel yet. 

I probably would be ok with Waterman in the middle of a back 3 if he was surrounded by two players that were good in the air and preferably fast to cover his defensive miscues and being poor in the air. So a Cornelius Waterman Bombito could work as Waterman is more a traditional sweeper type surrounded by two big, strong center backs, one who is very fast and also good on the ball. I really don’t like a Miller Waterman Johnston 3 as they are collectively too short / not good in the air and not particularly quick. They do have the advantage of being good with the ball at their feet which is good against a lower level side where we want to possess the ball such as Trinidad. If we are defending against the best sides I would rather the first 3. Another idea is to try Johnston in the middle. I prefer him there over Miller as he has more foot speed. 

As for LDF and JKL, i unfortunately think they are both a year away. Maybe it makes sense to give LDF some spot minutes to give him experience and work him into the side with the hope that helps fast track his development but don’t think he is ready for prime time to start against these next 5 sides. 

My hope is that by next year, they have worked their way into playing regular minutes at their clubs and then can use the Gold Cup as an audition for 2026 (along perhaps with Tom Holmes if he is eligible and/or Stefanovic if he is getting regular minutes at TFC by then).

In any event, I believe the Copa gives players like Bombito, Cornelius and even Waterman a chance to establish themselves at CB over the likes of Milker and Johnston. Even if one then steps forward and has a great tournament and friendly warm ups against top sides, that would be a huge boost. Then next year, maybe one or two of the younger guns can emerge so that by 2026 we have a solid pair or 3 with some adequate depth. Honestly, I think that is the best we can hope for. 
 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, An Observer said:

I probably would be ok with Waterman in the middle of a back 3 if he was surrounded by two players that were good in the air and preferably fast to cover his defensive miscues and being poor in the air. So a Cornelius Waterman Bombito could work as Waterman is more a traditional sweeper type surrounded by two big, strong center backs, one who is very fast and also good on the ball. I really don’t like a Miller Waterman Johnston 3 as they are collectively too short / not good in the air and not particularly quick. They do have the advantage of being good with the ball at their feet which is good against a lower level side where we want to possess the ball such as Trinidad. If we are defending against the best sides I would rather the first 3. Another idea is to try Johnston in the middle. I prefer him there over Miller as he has more foot speed. 

As for LDF and JKL, i unfortunately think they are both a year away. Maybe it makes sense to give LDF some spot minutes to give him experience and work him into the side with the hope that helps fast track his development but don’t think he is ready for prime time to start against these next 5 sides. 

My hope is that by next year, they have worked their way into playing regular minutes at their clubs and then can use the Gold Cup as an audition for 2026 (along perhaps with Tom Holmes if he is eligible and/or Stefanovic if he is getting regular minutes at TFC by then).

In any event, I believe the Copa gives players like Bombito, Cornelius and even Waterman a chance to establish themselves at CB over the likes of Milker and Johnston. Even if one then steps forward and has a great tournament and friendly warm ups against top sides, that would be a huge boost. Then next year, maybe one or two of the younger guns can emerge so that by 2026 we have a solid pair or 3 with some adequate depth. Honestly, I think that is the best we can hope for. 
 

I fully agree with this but at the same time it brings us back to the question of where Johnston plays, which is probably why we won't see this. 

You mention Johnston in the middle and I would actually be curious to see him as the third midfielder...

He played there in college if I am not mistaken and we've been willing to play guys out of position before, maybe that's something we experiment with at some point in the cycle. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

55 minutes ago, An Observer said:

I probably would be ok with Waterman in the middle of a back 3 if he was surrounded by two players that were good in the air and preferably fast to cover his defensive miscues and being poor in the air. So a Cornelius Waterman Bombito could work as Waterman is more a traditional sweeper type surrounded by two big, strong center backs, one who is very fast and also good on the ball. I really don’t like a Miller Waterman Johnston 3 as they are collectively too short / not good in the air and not particularly quick. They do have the advantage of being good with the ball at their feet which is good against a lower level side where we want to possess the ball such as Trinidad. If we are defending against the best sides I would rather the first 3. Another idea is to try Johnston in the middle. I prefer him there over Miller as he has more foot speed. 

As for LDF and JKL, i unfortunately think they are both a year away. Maybe it makes sense to give LDF some spot minutes to give him experience and work him into the side with the hope that helps fast track his development but don’t think he is ready for prime time to start against these next 5 sides. 

My hope is that by next year, they have worked their way into playing regular minutes at their clubs and then can use the Gold Cup as an audition for 2026 (along perhaps with Tom Holmes if he is eligible and/or Stefanovic if he is getting regular minutes at TFC by then).

In any event, I believe the Copa gives players like Bombito, Cornelius and even Waterman a chance to establish themselves at CB over the likes of Milker and Johnston. Even if one then steps forward and has a great tournament and friendly warm ups against top sides, that would be a huge boost. Then next year, maybe one or two of the younger guns can emerge so that by 2026 we have a solid pair or 3 with some adequate depth. Honestly, I think that is the best we can hope for. 
 

I am certainly willing try Cornelius-Waterman-Bombito. Just wondering if Biello/whoever comes in sees enough leadership there.  Hence finding a spot for Miller if he has two faster and bigger guys around him.

LDF is in a superior youth league and,to be honest, a superior youth team to JKL so I can understand why he would be ahead, even considering they have similarly played very few minutes.  Neither is starting but I bring LDF.  His best trait I have seen so far is his comfort on the ball. 

 

[costarg]

11 hours ago, Obinna said:

I fully agree with this but at the same time it brings us back to the question of where Johnston plays, which is probably why we won't see this. 

This is what I was saying a little while back.  If the result of playing a 3rd CB means we bench Johnston, it's an automatic no-go.  He's on the fringe of being one of our best, smartest and most important players.  There is just no scenario that he gets benched in order to play one of Miller, Waterman or Cornelius.

[Bigandy]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

Agree with most of this, but your Waterman take is interesting. @Shway said something similar in a different thread, about how we shouldn't take him to the Copa. For me, Waterman hasn't looked like the clear-cut solution, but neither has Cornelius or Miller in the middle of a back 3. Kennedy had some good moments in the past from that position, but I am not comfortable with him either, and he's injured anyways. Vitoria is (or should be) done. 

Maybe all this means we don't play with a back 3, but we then lose some flexibility. And maybe that is okay for the sake of establishing an identity and system post-herdman. 

I think every option centrally has some hesitation. However, watermans pro's are his passing and cons are general defending. Yes he has experience centrally but I would say the backline looks more shaky with him centrally than any other option. 

I dont think his passing is so elite that its a game changer but I think his lack of defensive ability is a game changer.

Obviously theres going to be someone who says hes the best CB passer in MLS. Or, have you watched him play, his defendings really improved. Both true. 

However, who is our weakest CB in the air (excluding johnston). I think waterman and/or miller. Who makes our backline look the most shaky centrally - waterman/fringe guys. Who has the lowest ceiling - waterman or other fringe guys. Whos the least dominating in 1v1 duels- waterman/fringe guys. Whos the slowest - not waterman but he isnt the fastest. 

All the above can be argued as being bias which is totally fair. However, I just dont see that he really adds much today or has a bright outlook like LDF or bombito. 
 

[Obinna]

Looking at that line up I posted, I like it more a day later. There is speed and athleticism everywhere.

The only place where speed is a real question mark would be Waterman, but he's protected. Cornelius is not slow and I think if you let him just concentrate on marking from that LCB spot, you get the best out of him. Bombito is apparently an athletic freak, so we have some emergency defending capabilities, but how is he in the air? If he's solid, then I am still comfortable with Cornelius being average and Waterman being below average in the air. 

Waterman and MacNaughton are both great on the ball, very composed. If they grow their communication and leadership skills we are fine with them, at least in the short term. 

Final thing, but I think MacNaughton is better in the air than Waterman, maybe that is a better alternative.

Edited April 18 by Obinna

[costarg]

12 hours ago, Obinna said:

 

 

This got me thinking.  As much as I don't think it'll happen, but can anyone picture Biello going full crazy DEFENCE Christmas tree style vs the big guys looking for a result?  I don't think it's his style, but who knows.

                                   Davies - David
                             Kone - Piette - Stache 
Adekugbe - Cornelius - Waterman - Bombito - Johnston

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

4 minutes ago, costarg said:

This got me thinking.  As much as I don't think it'll happen, but can anyone picture Biello going full crazy DEFENCE Christmas tree style vs the big guys looking for a result?  I don't think it's his style, but who knows.

                                   Davies - David
                             Kone - Piette - Stache 
Adekugbe - Cornelius - Waterman - Bombito - Johnston

That's a squat flat top tree 😉.  Would take it back.

Johnston still loses out to Tajon there probably.

[Bigandy]

4 minutes ago, costarg said:

This got me thinking.  As much as I don't think it'll happen, but can anyone picture Biello going full crazy DEFENCE Christmas tree style vs the big guys looking for a result?  I don't think it's his style, but who knows.

                                   Davies - David
                             Kone - Piette - Stache 
Adekugbe - Cornelius - Waterman - Bombito - Johnston

Interesting thought. My opinion is that going full out defense would incorporate a low block. in a 5-3-2 we require the outside CM or a striker to cover the opposing fullback or we rotate and adekugbe takes the FB and cornelius comes over to mark the winger and we essentially play with a back 4 in rotation. The rotation defeats the theory of all out defense so take that option out. 

A 5-4-1 creates 2 blocks of 5 and 4. Very difficult to break down but you do conceded the midfield. However, in all out defense, who cares about being played through the middle in the attacking and middle thirds of the field. The spaces of our 3 cbs and 2 cm would be so tight that the 3rd man of the opposing midfield is likely to sit deep and not be as threatening. 

Therefore davies goes LM and buchanan moves to RM. Piette comes out. Counter intuitive that you take out piette for buchanan in an all out defensive structure but the above points and the likelyhood teams attack our low block via the wings makes me think this strucutre is more defensive. 

 

[costarg]

2 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Johnston still loses out to Tajon there probably.

That's exactly how I came to this formation, was thinking of how to squeeze in Johnston if we wanted the 3rd CB.  Only way was to sacrifice Tajon.  I don't really like it, way to conservative, and I don't think it suits our qualities and squad either.  But I could see a Floro type going for it with his job on the line and looking for results.

[VinceA]

I think Tajon needs to come off the bench, personally. Nothing wrong with keeping some options off the bench, and he hasn't impressed me recently with his play as part of the XI.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, VinceA said:

I think Tajon needs to come off the bench, personally. Nothing wrong with keeping some options off the bench, and he hasn't impressed me recently with his play as part of the XI.

That's not a bad idea as it replicates his club situation. He seems to have an impact for Inter when coming off the bench, maybe we get more from him in that role for Canada. I was also unimpressed with him from the start last match.

4 minutes ago, costarg said:

That's exactly how I came to this formation, was thinking of how to squeeze in Johnston if we wanted the 3rd CB.  Only way was to sacrifice Tajon.  I don't really like it, way to conservative, and I don't think it suits our qualities and squad either.  But I could see a Floro type going for it with his job on the line and looking for results.

Despite the above response to Vince, I would strongly consider starting Tajon in that LWB spot Adekugbe is in and just ask him to defend. He can certainly do it. 

For me the jury is out on Adekugbe until I see something from him. WCQ was a long time ago.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

45 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Interesting thought. My opinion is that going full out defense would incorporate a low block. in a 5-3-2 we require the outside CM or a striker to cover the opposing fullback or we rotate and adekugbe takes the FB and cornelius comes over to mark the winger and we essentially play with a back 4 in rotation. The rotation defeats the theory of all out defense so take that option out. 

A 5-4-1 creates 2 blocks of 5 and 4. Very difficult to break down but you do conceded the midfield. However, in all out defense, who cares about being played through the middle in the attacking and middle thirds of the field. The spaces of our 3 cbs and 2 cm would be so tight that the 3rd man of the opposing midfield is likely to sit deep and not be as threatening. 

Therefore davies goes LM and buchanan moves to RM. Piette comes out. Counter intuitive that you take out piette for buchanan in an all out defensive structure but the above points and the likelyhood teams attack our low block via the wings makes me think this strucutre is more defensive. 

 

Whilst we are having fun.

We (West Ham) had a low block counter formation, that worked very well for almost half a season until people got injured and Big Sam gave up. Beat Liverpool and Man City and were 4th at Christmas. 

It was actually a modified diamond but the 2 forwards split wide and pressed ( West Ham used actual strikers with pace but probably Davies and Tajon for us).

The Stuart Downing CAM role could be David (or put Eustaquio there, use David as a wide striker and probably moved Tajon either inside midfield or bench Johnston at right back).  

We sat three midfielders, Alex Song, Kouyate and Mark Noble, one of which would usually rotate up on the press/attack, while the other 2 stayed as cover.  Most logically it would be Staq, Kone and Choniere, though Kone doesn't play as big as Kouyate (think a less skilled Amadou Onana).

Make your back 4 as you will but probably focus on long ball passing. (Miller left back, Johnston, Bombito, Cornelius?)

Edited April 18 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[archer21]

10 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Interesting thought. My opinion is that going full out defense would incorporate a low block. in a 5-3-2 we require the outside CM or a striker to cover the opposing fullback or we rotate and adekugbe takes the FB and cornelius comes over to mark the winger and we essentially play with a back 4 in rotation. The rotation defeats the theory of all out defense so take that option out. 

A 5-4-1 creates 2 blocks of 5 and 4. Very difficult to break down but you do conceded the midfield. However, in all out defense, who cares about being played through the middle in the attacking and middle thirds of the field. The spaces of our 3 cbs and 2 cm would be so tight that the 3rd man of the opposing midfield is likely to sit deep and not be as threatening. 

Therefore davies goes LM and buchanan moves to RM. Piette comes out. Counter intuitive that you take out piette for buchanan in an all out defensive structure but the above points and the likelyhood teams attack our low block via the wings makes me think this strucutre is more defensive. 

 

I’ve advocated this a few times in games where we’re outmatched. Very difficult for opposition to break down, and with the pace on the wings and up front, could steal a goal or 2. 
 

 

[archer21]

23 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I am certainly willing try Cornelius-Waterman-Bombito. Just wondering if Biello/whoever comes in sees enough leadership there.  Hence finding a spot for Miller if he has two faster and bigger guys around him.

LDF is in a superior youth league and,to be honest, a superior youth team to JKL so I can understand why he would be ahead, even considering they have similarly played very few minutes.  Neither is starting but I bring LDF.  His best trait I have seen so far is his comfort on the ball. 

 

I’ve seen you make this point a few times and I’m not sure whether I agree or not. Is Miller really considered a leader on the back line? I know he has experience in the squad, but it’s been Vitoria that’s been the leader. Even if he’s an emotional leader, is he the tactical organizer that gets people in position? I’m not saying he isn’t or that he can’t do that. Just that I haven’t really heard of that being a strength of his.

[Bigandy]

22 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Whilst we are having fun.

We (West Ham) had a low block counter formation, that worked very well for almost half a season until people got injured and Big Sam gave up. Beat Liverpool and Man City and were 4th at Christmas. 

It was actually a modified diamond but the 2 forwards split wide and pressed ( West Ham used actual strikers with pace but probably Davies and Tajon for us).

The Stuart Downing CAM role could be David (or put Eustaquio there, use David as a wide striker and probably moved Tajon either inside midfield or bench Johnston at right back).  

We sat three midfielders, Alex Song, Kouyate and Mark Noble, one of which would usually rotate up on the press/attack, while the other 2 stayed as cover.  Most logically it would be Staq, Kone and Choniere, though Kone doesn't play as big as Kouyate (think a less skilled Amadou Onana).

Make your back 4 as you will but probably focus on long ball passing. (Miller left back, Johnston, Bombito, Cornelius?)

I like this thought exercise but trying to wrap my head around it. 

It almost sounds like a 4-3-3 with a CDM and 2 CM and the striker playing as a false 9 given the CMNT profile. However, if west ham played 2 strikers than it sounds more 4 diamond 2. 

How did west ham defend the opposing fullback. Do the strikers track the FB and Stewart downing then steps up to push the CB's to go a certain direction? How far back did the striker track the fullbacks, if at all? 

Very interesting.  

back 4 (with davies) 
Staq
Kone Choiniere
ali
David Tajon

I think in this formation we probably drop larin. we could drop ali, move david back and have davies and tajon up front but thats 2 non strikers so I would assume having at least david there is important. This means we sit tajon or drop davies to lb. 

Really tough for me to place cmnt players in this lineup 

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

17 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I like this thought exercise but trying to wrap my head around it. 

It almost sounds like a 4-3-3 with a CDM and 2 CM and the striker playing as a false 9 given the CMNT profile. However, if west ham played 2 strikers than it sounds more 4 diamond 2. 

How did west ham defend the opposing fullback. Do the strikers track the FB and Stewart downing then steps up to push the CB's to go a certain direction? How far back did the striker track the fullbacks, if at all? 

Very interesting.  

back 4 (with davies) 
Staq
Kone Choiniere
ali
David Tajon

I think in this formation we probably drop larin. we could drop ali, move david back and have davies and tajon up front but thats 2 non strikers so I would assume having at least david there is important. This means we sit tajon or drop davies to lb. 

Really tough for me to place cmnt players in this lineup 

 

Probably easier seen as a 4312 I guess. 

 

Davies------------ Buchanan

-----------David-------------

Kone Eustaquio Choiniere/Ali

Miller Cornelius Bombito Johnson

 

 I would need to keep Davies in one of those wide attack positions, again they were quite mobile strikers.   

The strikers might press across line the but it was it was rare the rest of the team did.  The default position of the 3 midfielders was withdrawn and they would wait until the fullbacks or their central midfielders were across half to engage.  Long range passing was pretty key at the back, including big diagonals. 

Not my preffered formation but something that worked against more talented teams, coming up on 10 years ago now.  (One of the things that broke it was one of the strikers supposedly visiting a "natural" - wouldn't use the word "witch" - doctor for his back while on international duty.)

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

13 hours ago, archer21 said:

I’ve seen you make this point a few times and I’m not sure whether I agree or not. Is Miller really considered a leader on the back line? I know he has experience in the squad, but it’s been Vitoria that’s been the leader. Even if he’s an emotional leader, is he the tactical organizer that gets people in position? I’m not saying he isn’t or that he can’t do that. Just that I haven’t really heard of that being a strength of his.

It was part of what Neville said about bringing him to Portland, if I recall, and Neville had seen him with Canada. He is definitely the organizers of the pair they have there, from what I have seen. 

I guess we can debate whether we trust Neville's judgement or not but that was the noise being made from my memory. 

[costarg]

49 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

It was part of what Neville said about bringing him to Portland, if I recall, and Neville had seen him with Canada. He is definitely the organizers of the pair they have there, from what I have seen. 

I guess we can debate whether we trust Neville's judgement or not but that was the noise being made from my memory. 

I've watched 3 Portland games so far this year and I have yet to see any semblance of an organized backline.  If anything, the backline is the least organized part of the team.  It was one of my main concerns when looking forward to seeing a Canadian trio at the back.

I can't and won't put it all on Miller, MacGraw has not looked like an all-star either.  But the 2nd worst GA record in MLS is not what I was hoping for.  Miller has some good qualities, but the backline organizer is not one of them at the moment.  Fingers crossed for some improvement.

[narduch]

Portland also has a shit manager

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

31 minutes ago, costarg said:

I've watched 3 Portland games so far this year and I have yet to see any semblance of an organized backline.  If anything, the backline is the least organized part of the team.  It was one of my main concerns when looking forward to seeing a Canadian trio at the back.

I can't and won't put it all on Miller, MacGraw has not looked like an all-star either.  But the 2nd worst GA record in MLS is not what I was hoping for.  Miller has some good qualities, but the backline organizer is not one of them at the moment.  Fingers crossed for some improvement.

Ha. A bit hyberbolic (your style I know) at best and false in actual reality. 

Both his move there and to Miami, leadership was talked about.  He is good on the ball which is must and has made less mental errors for Canada than the alternatives to this point. Someone has to play, I am all for moving to better options if and when they have proved themselves as such. 

I guess to be construction, let's look at actual alternatives. 

Waterman? Or what looks to me like throwing a new partnership - Cornelius and Bombito - to the top 10 FIFA wolves and hoping for the best.  I've seen better centre backs' confidence destroyed by less. 

[costarg]

14 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Ha. A bit hyberbolic (your style I know) at best and false in actual reality. 

Both his move there and to Miami, leadership was talked about.  He is good on the ball which is must and has made less mental errors for Canada than the alternatives to this point. Someone has to play, I am all for moving to better options if and when they have proved themselves as such. 

I guess to be construction, let's look at actual alternatives. 

Waterman? Or what looks to me like throwing a new partnership - Cornelius and Bombito - to the top 10 FIFA wolves and hoping for the best.  I've seen better centre backs' confidence destroyed by less. 

You're absolutely right, he might be our best option, but we don't know that.  It's all theoretical at this point.  I feel we're all kind of in agreement and not quite sold on Waterman even though it was only one match.

What we DO know is:

1- Miller is not that natural CB leader we're looking for.  Any CFM fan or someone that has watched him with Miami or Portland can confirm that, regardless of what the coaches said.  He was never picked to center and lead the CFM or CANMNT backline, even when the opportunity was there.  

2- We all scratched our heads when looking at the Miller/MacGraw partnership on paper.  Neither of them had that profile or was a good fit given their obvious weaknesses.  I was hopeful, yet very skeptical.

2- He's "leading" the 2nd worst GA backline in MLS, imagine what happens when that faces Argentina, France and Netherlands.

Personally, like @archer21 implied,  I think the coaches meant "dressing room leader", not necessarily "backline leader".  He is very experienced and did play in the world cup, so that does look and sound good, but doesn't translate to CB organizer you're looking for.

At this point, any lineup we do throw out there is rolling the dice, nothing is proven or given.  Like I've been saying for 2 years, we blew lots of chances to test the new options and scenarios.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

You're absolutely right, he might be our best option, but we don't know that.  It's all theoretical at this point.  I feel we're all kind of in agreement and not quite sold on Waterman even though it was only one match.

What we DO know is:

1- Miller is not that natural CB leader we're looking for.  Any CFM fan or someone that has watched him with Miami or Portland can confirm that, regardless of what the coaches said.  He was never picked to center and lead the CFM or CANMNT backline, even when the opportunity was there.  

2- We all scratched our heads when looking at the Miller/MacGraw partnership on paper.  Neither of them had that profile or was a good fit given their obvious weaknesses.  I was hopeful, yet very skeptical.

2- He's "leading" the 2nd worst GA backline in MLS, imagine what happens when that faces Argentina, France and Netherlands.

Personally, like @archer21 implied,  I think the coaches meant "dressing room leader", not necessarily "backline leader".  He is very experienced and did play in the world cup, so that does look and sound good, but doesn't translate to CB organizer you're looking for.

At this point, any lineup we do throw out there is rolling the dice, nothing is proven or given.  Like I've been saying for 2 years, we blew lots of chances to test the new options and scenarios.

Probably run its course again.  

But again "we" don't "know" your opinions, no matter whether you add all caps "DO"s to them or not. 😄.

[Bigandy]

3 hours ago, costarg said:

At this point, any lineup we do throw out there is rolling the dice, nothing is proven or given.  Like I've been saying for 2 years, we blew lots of chances to test the new options and scenarios.

Who are you suggesting we wouldve tried out 2 years ago? 

Waterman and LM have improved and are still not CMNT quality. We tested ferreira cornelius, didic, waterman, sturing, james, zator, ZMG, LM  and heibert  ( i think fraser played CB for CMNT too) over the past few years. 

Would it have been an NCAA bombito? a 16 year old LDF, JKL, Smith, stefanovic? 

The only player who really was an option 2 years ago was cornelius and hes been integrated for a while now. Maybe you're implying that a guy like waterman would have a different developmental arc if he was integrated sooner? 

[costarg]

37 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Who are you suggesting we wouldve tried out 2 years ago? 

Waterman and LM have improved and are still not CMNT quality. We tested ferreira cornelius, didic, waterman, sturing, james, zator, ZMG, LM  and heibert  ( i think fraser played CB for CMNT too) over the past few years. 

Would it have been an NCAA bombito? a 16 year old LDF, JKL, Smith, stefanovic? 

The only player who really was an option 2 years ago was cornelius and hes been integrated for a while now. Maybe you're implying that a guy like waterman would have a different developmental arc if he was integrated sooner? 

Lets take 2023 for example.  Matches played:

KM 10
SV 7.5
DC 4
ZM 3.5
SK 3
AJ 3
MB 2.5
KH .25
JW 0
LM 0

Every single match given to SV after the WC was a complete waste of development time. 

3 for AJ at CB who had absolutely nothing left to prove at CB.  He did well enough, but we know that is not what we want or what we need to develop. 

0 for LM and JW.  We needed to see more of these guys, as well as a mix/combination of the players above.  Its very difficult to judge a CB from a couple of matches over 12 months in different setups with different partners.  We really need to look at their recent club work to have a better picture what we're dealing with.