Constructive discussion about advancing soccer in Canada

[dyslexic nam]

Rather than burying it in other threads or bogging it down with personal issues and conflicts, I am hoping to have a discussions about real strategies that could be used to advance soccer in the country, in large part by assisting or or adjusting (as appropriate) the work and operations of the CSA. 
 

There seem to be issues in a couple of obvious areas that I am thinking about, but this is intended to be an open forum for (CONSTRUCTIVE) discussion.

One area of obvious deficit (pardon the pun) is finances.   Criticisms aside, it is probably hard to run a national sporting organization on $20-25M when that needs to include the cost of camps, friendlies (that often lose money) and player travel, accommodation etc., split between both men’s and women’s soccer. 

Strategies like slightly raising amateur soccer fees (or sending a higher % to the national association) are examples.

Another area is about the steering function of soccer.  In the other thread I suggested the V’s securing a seat at the Board of Directors table   In healthcare it is increasingly recognized that the voice of the patient is essential to effective policy decisions.  In the world of sport, I would suggest that the voice of the supporter  is equally as important in making decisions about policy.  Listening only to people. Like bureaucrats or people pushing the agenda of provincial associations may miss the kinds of views we have - which are really about advancing the CMNT and CWNT.  
 

Getting a V rep on the Board would, however, require us to sort out our own organizational structure, which was underway at one point but I have no idea if/where it landed.
 

Bottom line - we have been seeing the same issues hampering the growth of the sport in this country literally for decades.   Is there anything we can do to help solve them?

 For background, the 2018 audited financial statements of the CSA are here:

https://www.canadasoccer.com/about-landing-page/about-resources/

(I have also posted a pic of the money shot in this thread.)

[apbsmith]

I think the board of director should be larger and the board have both a female and a male senior national team player active or(retired within 2 years)  on the board. 

1) It allows a voice for active WNT and MNT to have a voice within the organization that has first hand front line experience. 

2) It also helps our players transition to "life after sport". 

From an admin burocracy standpoint, the reality is they are not a player so simply don't know what is actively going on, right on the front lines. 

Think Chris Paul with NBA players association.... Obviously not as massive as an organization, but you get the idea.

I'm sure some senior leaders would love having their voice heard. 

Just a thought :). 

Edited November 3, 2020 by apbsmith

[Obinna]

Getting ourselves properly organized should be priority number one

The next step would be getting a V-rep on the board at the CSA

I am not sure what it would accomplish, or if it would be possible, but it would hopefully give us some kind of influence. 

I think making it happen would be very difficult, but organizing ourselves would be relatively simpler, so let's start there.

• What does organizing look like?
  • What do we want to accomplish?
    • Create positive change and accountability 
      • needs to be defined more clearly
      • plan needs to be developed
  • Structure
    • organizational chart
      • roles / functions
        • what roles are need
        • how do we fill them
        • do we need them?
      • provincial and/or city chapters?
    • board members
      • how will they be determined?
      • what will they do?

Just a few quick thoughts we can perhaps build upon....

Edited November 3, 2020 by Obinna

[Shway]

@Obinna 1000%  agree with you. 

I've said many times, we have one guy running the show - doing/ organizing everything. He takes advice, opinions, suggests and ultimately makes the decision. I sincerely appreciate everything that he's done but we need to move forward past the one man show. 

We have on this forum doctors, journalist, ceos, accountants, engineers, marketers, social workers everything from all walks of life. Who all post here often enough that one could assume they would be willing to volunteer their time and expertise for the greater good of the common interest. Canadian Soccer.

We need to sort ourselves out first as a organization, before we can suggest valid change to the powers that be. Or else it just seems like random people  using the CSA staff directory to reach out to the necessary parties. Our presence as the Voyageurs - Canada Soccer Supporters is non existent, and is only present when we have games and theres a banner, or when we have lone wolfs going out to volunteer like what @dyslexic nam did at the Island games. 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Shway

[dyslexic nam]

Looking at the current Board membership, it really seems to be heavy on professional bureaucrats.   I am multitasking while on a course but it seems like there are a lot of financial professionals and not that many actual soccer people.  If that is true (and again I am just glancing through bios) it may explain why they don’t feel the same sense of urgency that we do.   If your main priority is about the continuation of the organization itself and not on delivery of the actual mandate (or if you have shaped that mandate in an insular way),  it might explain why we see such unsatisfactory efforts.  

Edited November 3, 2020 by dyslexic nam

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, Shway said:

@Obinna 1000%  agree with you. 

I've said many times, we have one guy running the show - doing/ organizing everything. He takes advice, opinions, suggests and ultimately makes the decision. I sincerely appreciate everything that he's done but we need to move forward past the one man show.  

Do we know the status of this - because it was discussed a year or two ago?
 

And I agree - we need to make sure our house is in order before we start seeking to elevate our role.  

[Obinna]

12 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Looking at the current Board membership, it really seems to be heavy on professional bureaucrats.   I am multitasking while on a course but it seems like there are a lot of financial professionals and not that many actual soccer people.  If that is true (and again I am just glancing through bios) it may explain why they don’t feel the same sense of urgency that we do.   If your making priority is about the continuation of the organization itself and not on delivery of the actual mandate (or if you have shaped that mandate in an insular way),  it might explain why we see such unsatisfactory efforts.  

This is precisely how I see it as well. 

[dyslexic nam]

So a short period after starting this thread the whole site was taken offline.  Had me worried for a minute there...

[Shway]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

Do we know the status of this - because it was discussed a year or two ago?
 

And I agree - we need to make sure our house is in order before we start seeking to elevate our role.  

@admin would have the answers. He's the one that just updated the site.

[dyslexic nam]

Re the Board - a process of Board reform would be one major strategy.  Lots of Boards have requirements and quotas that dictate the structure and composition of the Board.  
 

Maybe that is the first step - the addition of past national level players (both M and F) and a supporter rep from the V’s would be the sort of thing that could change the focus. 

[PiedPilko]

It'd be great if we could keep all CSA related comments in this thread, because this is a lot more productive than complaining ineffectually all day long. Plus, we have like 4 separate conversations going on now...

[dyslexic nam]

3 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

It'd be great if we could keep all CSA related comments in this thread, because this is a lot more productive than complaining ineffectually all day long. Plus, we have like 4 separate conversations going on now...

That was the point of the thread but it hasn’t quite caught on yet.  

[apbsmith]

Completely agree with @Obinna important to start with a structure and build from the ground up.  

Going back to my BoD comment, it would likely be too much of a conflict of interest to have active players but removed within 2-3 years would be a great idea.  Just for the current board can get some feedback from individuals who were on the ground level. 

I also wanted to point out I am not blaming the two individuals on the BoD whatsoever. I have no idea if they are being paid on a per diem appearance or volunteer ( which is often the case) or hired full-time. 

The two things I did find a bit strange with the BoD, is the majority of almost all boards usually almost always have an odd number of board members for voting purposes, in addition I am quite shocked by the size of the board, most board including even non for profits are much larger.  The reason for this is you can bring individuals of all walks of life into a board of directors, which ultimately, hopefully leads to better decision making. 

 

"According to the Corporate Library's study, the average board size is 9.2 members, and most boards range from 3 to 31 members. Some analysts think the ideal size is seven."

 

 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, apbsmith said:

Completely agree with @Obinna important to start with a structure and build from the ground up.  

Going back to my BoD comment, it would likely be too much of a conflict of interest to have active players but removed within 2-3 years would be a great idea.  Just for the current board can get some feedback from individuals who were on the ground level. 

I also wanted to point out I am not blaming the two individuals on the BoD whatsoever. I have no idea if they are being paid on a per diem appearance or volunteer ( which is often the case) or hired full-time. 

The two things I did find a bit strange with the BoD, is the majority of almost all boards usually almost always have an odd number of board members for voting purposes, in addition I am quite shocked by the size of the board, most board including even non for profits are much larger.  The reason for this is you can bring individuals of all walks of life into a board of directors, which ultimately, hopefully leads to better decision making. 

 

"According to the Corporate Library's study, the average board size is 9.2 members, and most boards range from 3 to 31 members. Some analysts think the ideal size is seven."

 

 

7 sounds like a good place to start. 

[scooterlawrence5]

It's quite simple actually.  According to Canada Soccer's rules and regulations available on their website, any adult with a "background police check" can be nominated for a position on the CSA Board of Directors. Elections take place each year at the Annual Meeting which are normally held in May.  COVID wiped out 2020's Annual Meeting. There will be another one in May 2021. A call for nominations is typically posted in January each year. Then a nominee runs a campaign to generate support from voters across the country.  Voters are called "members" and include professional clubs (CPL and MLS), coaches, referees, national team players, and presidents of provincial associations.

SO, who from the Voyageurs wants to prepare for a CSA director nomination in January?

 

 

[dyslexic nam]

21 minutes ago, scooterlawrence5 said:

It's quite simple actually.  According to Canada Soccer's rules and regulations available on their website, any adult with a "background police check" can be nominated for a position on the CSA Board of Directors. Elections take place each year at the Annual Meeting which are normally held in May.  COVID wiped out 2020's Annual Meeting. There will be another one in May 2021. A call for nominations is typically posted in January each year. Then a nominee runs a campaign to generate support from voters across the country.  Voters are called "members" and include professional clubs (CPL and MLS), coaches, referees, national team players, and presidents of provincial associations.

SO, who from the Voyageurs wants to prepare for a CSA director nomination in January?

That is absolutely one path. And I would encourage someone who has the motivation to do it. But what I am talking about is structural changes to the board composition.  All sorts of agencies mandate the composition of their boards by determining requirements for representation. They can be in addition to members at large.  

[Obinna]

13 hours ago, scooterlawrence5 said:

It's quite simple actually.  According to Canada Soccer's rules and regulations available on their website, any adult with a "background police check" can be nominated for a position on the CSA Board of Directors. Elections take place each year at the Annual Meeting which are normally held in May.  COVID wiped out 2020's Annual Meeting. There will be another one in May 2021. A call for nominations is typically posted in January each year. Then a nominee runs a campaign to generate support from voters across the country.  Voters are called "members" and include professional clubs (CPL and MLS), coaches, referees, national team players, and presidents of provincial associations.

SO, who from the Voyageurs wants to prepare for a CSA director nomination in January?

 

 

Nice for you to bring this to our awareness. We should keep it in mind.

In the meantime, getting our house in order first could allow us to do this down the road.

[dyslexic nam]

So does anyone have any status updates with respect to the process of modernizing the V's organization structure?  I agree that it is a necessary first step in seeking to be engaged in the process of improving things. 

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

So does anyone have any status updates with respect to the process of modernizing the V's organization structure?  I agree that it is a necessary first step in seeking to be engaged in the process of improving things. 

I think we first need to identify who is currently sailing this ship. I know there was a guy (I think his name was Jamie) who was running everything Voyageurs related. Then, there are the administrator(s)( @BuzzAndSting is clearly one of them) who keep this virtual place up and running.

Can we confirm who the administrators are and who the individual I am thinking of is? @Shway do you happen to know who the individual I am referring to is? I believe you alluded to him in the November games thread.

[dyslexic nam]

39 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think we first need to identify who is currently sailing this ship. I know there was a guy (I think his name was Jamie) who was running everything Voyageurs related. Then, there are the administrator(s)( @BuzzAndSting is clearly one of them) who keep this virtual place up and running.

Can we confirm who the administrators are and who the individual I am thinking of is? @Shway do you happen to know who the individual I am referring to is? I believe you alluded to him in the November games thread.

It is Jamie ( @admin ) who is the godfather of the group.  

[Shway]

This conversation can’t die, I know there’s a lot of talk about the CSA, and the things that we can’t ultimately change. However I believe its very necessary that the Voyageurs organize, plan and execute our collective support to move things forward so we have a stronger voice. 

What that looks like are the conversations to be had. But we can’t be complacent with how things are for the Voyageurs. 

The mods are @El Diego ,@BuzzAndSting,  @jordan, @RS, @JamboAl, @Rintaran ,@Duane Rollins, @Pierce Lang, @Lord Bob , and@Kevin Laramee. What there roles are outside of that I don’t know, maybe they can answer. 

Ultimately the godfather is @admin Jamie. Who to my knowledge right now holds the keys to everything. 

 

[dyslexic nam]

For the record, my use of the term godfather was in no way meant to be critical (realized after the fact that it could come across that way).  Jamie has put a ridiculous amount of effort into maintaining this group and keeping things going.  He has helped me out personally when it comes to accessing games and as someone whose sole connection to V’s was through this site (that he maintained) for a long long time, I appreciate everything he has done. 
 

Just want to be clear on that one. 

[Shway]

Oh I know....I’m aware of the time, effort, and money he has put into this group - that goes beyond what I would suspect. And I too have echoed the appreciation of the sole efforts. So I wasn’t being cynical or facetious either. It was just a very fitting title for the man.

You need his blessing/help for a lot of things and necessary contacts.

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Shway said:

This conversation can’t die, I know there’s a lot of talk about the CSA, and the things that we can’t ultimately change. However I believe its very necessary that the Voyageurs organize, plan and execute our collective support to move things forward so we have a stronger voice. 

What that looks like are the conversations to be had. But we can’t be complacent with how things are for the Voyageurs. 

The mods are @El Diego ,@BuzzAndSting,  @jordan, @RS, @JamboAl, @Rintaran ,@Duane Rollins, @Pierce Lang, @Lord Bob , and@Kevin Laramee. What there roles are outside of that I don’t know, maybe they can answer. 

Ultimately the godfather is @admin Jamie. Who to my knowledge right now holds the keys to everything. 

 

Thanks for sharing that. Interesting mix of individuals. Obviously some are less active than others. It would be good to know who is doing what, so If the people mentioned wouldn’t mind chiming in, that would help us out a lot.

 

[SthMelbRed]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

Thanks for sharing that. Interesting mix of individuals. Obviously some are less active than others. It would be good to know who is doing what, so If the people mentioned wouldn’t mind chiming in, that would help us out a lot.

 

Nearly all of them are/were bloggers who posted their writing on the CSN platform. At least 3-4 seem to be active posters on the forum, though.